might as well just get rid of planes

Comments

  • Celsi_GER
    927 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    As so many things, it depends on how the game develops.
    Shooting down 20 newbie pilots which did not do much harm to the ground is less helpful to the objective than a guy who shoots down/seriously troubles20 pro-pilots destroying tanks and taking out large amounts of infantry.

    But I agree to what (I think) you want to say: Nobody should be condemned for "camping" in AA: He is just doing one of the many "jobs" the game provides for the player.
    As do the pilots: We don't call them "campers in the skies" and do not condemn them for not taking any flags: they indirectly add their share to reaching the objective.
  • SirBobdk
    5322 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Celsi_GER said:
     Nobody should be condemned for "camping" in AA: He is just doing one of the many "jobs" the game provides for the player.
    As do the pilots: We don't call them "campers in the skies" and do not condemn them for not taking any flags: they indirectly add their share to reaching the objective.
    I respect those who take the "AA duty". They really help team pilots from enemy fighters, so we can help team on the ground.
    BF is a team based game and if ground helps planes with spotting and AA cover we can help ground against other planes and tanks.
  • DavTan
    863 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Pilots crying. 😅🤣😅🤣

    Let's be accurate here, it's a small selection of elite pilots.
    I tend to think it's an ego issue rather than a balance issue. The only pilots that hate mail me are the really good ones just like I'll bet the pilots in this thread that are against the two salvo kill ( but insist on calling it a ohk) are good pilots.
    These are the very pilots that should be able to adapt to the threat ( and I've seen a good few do just that).
    They have put X amount of time into getting good at it and some people base their sense of manliness on how good they are at a video game.... QED ego bruised when someone they deem as not as good as them takes them out.
    It's written all over the hate mail I get.
    I do tbag each plane I get though ... It plays to the above theory and encourages them to come looking for me.
    I met an awesome pilot once and after I'd got him twice came and killed me 8 times always from out of nowhere , really high diving in and rocketing me.... Must have great eyes and awareness ... Kudos to him.
  • SirBobdk
    5322 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited July 27
    DavTan said:
    Pilots crying. 😅🤣😅🤣


    I tend to think it's an ego issue rather than a balance issue.
    If it was about ego I would just clap my hands and say GJ dice.
    Before buff of anti-air I have to deal with fighters all the time and got shoot down even by inexperienced pilots.
    Now I can destroy saa / maa and farm infantry / tanks return for rearm and repeat protected by AA/FF.
    Imo there is a balance issue when fighter's primary role are taken out of the game forcing them to attack ground like bombers/attack planes.
    FF should not ohk fighters, but be better at counter any plane with faster reload/speed but less damage. Most of the times you dont even hit the plane with FF and the only plane worth aiming for are fighters. 
    Post edited by SirBobdk on
  • Magikf1ngers
    254 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    As someone who's a non-flier, and who has barely used the FF - I'm going to say this:

    1.  Except on Pacific maps - I rarely see team members using the FF.  Even on Pacific maps, people are more likely to use the stationary AA.  
    2.  I will, from time to time, equip the FF, and very, very rarely get a one-hit kill.  It *feels* like (in my experience, your results may vary) that no one else carries it.  Or if someone does, it's only one other person.
    3. Planes are ridiculous right now.  Pilots complain about the AA / FF / whatever, yet especially with bombers, they farm infantry kills.  On maps with the fighters, they spend their time dogfighting instead of supporting the team.

    What it boils down to, in my opinion, is simply this:

    Pilots are going to complain about AA.  Infantry is going to complain about planes.  

    That's it.  Period.  There's no caveat, no exception, nothing.  Pilots are going to think that AA is overpowered because they feel like they're above it all and should be impervious to ground fire.  Infantry is going to feel like planes are overpowered because one bomb can take out everyone at a flag they're trying to cap.  They're also going to complain about the dogfighting because it does nothing to help the team.  It's bragging rights.  That's why - (I think) in BF3 they came out with what was basically the air version of that wide-open tank map that I'm blanking on.  

    In my opinion - I'm going to stand by what I said earlier in this thread - go ahead and remove the planes.  I'm okay with that.  If they can't improve them, and figure out a way to balance them better, then get rid of them.  
  • Man_ILoveFishing
    406 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited July 27

    3. On maps with the fighters, they spend their time dogfighting instead of supporting the team. They're also going to complain about the dogfighting because it does nothing to help the team.

    Are you high?

    EDIT: You are right, in WW2 pilots spend their time on dogfights instead supporting ground. Tank goes vs tank = not supporting team. You know, you guys have funny opinions there. :D
  • Celsi_GER
    927 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited July 27
    As much as I agree on topics 1) and 2)... I have to disagree with topic 3). Fighter planes are made for dogfighting, and by taking bombers down or try to prevent enemy fighters to kill friendly bombers they do support their team.
    And while they are dogfighting, they won't harass the ground troops...
  • SirBobdk
    5322 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Celsi_GER said:

    And while they are dogfighting, they won't harass the ground troops...
    Agree. And this is where Dice failed when they changed the fly mechanichs from BF3/4/1 + gave fighters more and better options for ground attack, especialy the pacific planes but also the me109 with rockets and now the Mustang. Different fraction Upgrade trees was also a very bad idea. Not to mention bombers.
    Bombers and attack planes are for ground attack and fighters are for keeping ground safe from bombing but still with some limited ability for hitting ground with mg and small bombs. 
  • cashm0n3y08
    272 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Celsi_GER said:
    Hm, Fjell is my favorite map when it comes to takes down planes. With SAA, not so much with Fliegerfaust. Many SAA, in good locations (compared to other maps), many enemy planes to shoot at and airspace is rather small. I am not good at SAA, but a few weeks ago I went 21:0, "camping" in the SAA below A flag the whole round.
    Tbh, I strongly disliked Fjell before the FF/SAA range buff, but now I like it again because planes do not rule the map anymote, they now have a hard time when all SAAs are manned.
    May I ask what flavor of Doritos you ate while doing this? After all, SAA does only require use of one hand. 
  • PSJackman4
    445 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    DavTan said:
    Pilots crying. 😅🤣😅🤣

    Let's be accurate here, it's a small selection of elite pilots.
    I tend to think it's an ego issue rather than a balance issue. The only pilots that hate mail me are the really good ones just like I'll bet the pilots in this thread that are against the two salvo kill ( but insist on calling it a ohk) are good pilots.
    These are the very pilots that should be able to adapt to the threat ( and I've seen a good few do just that).
    They have put X amount of time into getting good at it and some people base their sense of manliness on how good they are at a video game.... QED ego bruised when someone they deem as not as good as them takes them out.
    It's written all over the hate mail I get.
    I do tbag each plane I get though ... It plays to the above theory and encourages them to come looking for me.
    I met an awesome pilot once and after I'd got him twice came and killed me 8 times always from out of nowhere , really high diving in and rocketing me.... Must have great eyes and awareness ... Kudos to him.
    Yeah, what elite pilots can do is impressive. I watch gameplay of them, and it is quite odd that when they do a bombing run, they get 5+ kills, and when i do a bombing run, i get nobody. lol.  Even though this thread is somewhat pilots crying that they can't get a 100:0 game without any enemy resistance anymore, I can kind of see where they are coming from.Because I have spawned into a planes on Arras, and i was immediately taken out by an AA at the enemy spawn point. Kind of dumb that AA has that capability to take you out of the air that quick, but I don't really care, because I don't fly planes that much. 
  • cashm0n3y08
    272 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    FF ain't really the problem. Go ahead and take yourself out of the game and sit next to your spawn resupply all you want. 

    The range of the SAA and MAA is the problem. I'd much rather DICE buff the damage output and decrease the range so us pilots can get some of the map back, it will also give smarter MAA and SAA users, who are patient and know when to engage, a better chance at killing planes. It will also make it less advantageous for MAA tanks to sit way back in their spawn safe from anything that isn't a plane.

    There's an argument floating around on here from certain people that say "you shouldn't need a plane to take out a plane", well ok, then a plane shouldn't be the only option of taking out an MAA.

    Yes, I know, infantry and tanks can take out MAA, but let's be realistic in how MAA is being used, they rarely leave the spawn, so in reality, planes are the only threat to these MAA's. Why leave the spawn if it provides you infinite health and ammo, you can reach planes across most of the map, and no one else can touch you?  Might as well sit there and munch on some doritos while you're at it.

  • Man_ILoveFishing
    406 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited July 27
    But it's not enough, ground wants 2 bags of Doritos. To be honest, all this sounds more like they want to be untouched. Just had an awesome match, Iwo and me as a US. What did i do whole match? Shot 2 rockets 1 per SAA close to Japanese main. I leave carrier about 200m, fly a bit higher and then there it goes, SAA spam and i get free kills with little effort (i did get hit). I entered field twice cause i was allowed to do so. Awsome well spent 8 days of flight time so i can achieve that, how fun.

    facts on table:

    AA dominates sky. Planes can roam around only when there is no AA users.

    But hey, i have an idea. Since AA f-ups so many i.e dogfights, time to turn friendly fire on? Get my point?
  • Celsi_GER
    927 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited July 27
    (Quote)
    May I ask what flavor of Doritos you ate while doing this? After all, SAA does only require use of one hand. 

    I am not allowed to eat Doritos in office :smiley:

    You pilots should put the Fliegerfaust on the agenda of your next support group meeting again: one says that FF ain't really the problem, the other one says it's an invisible doomsday machine.
    Post edited by Celsi_GER on
  • DingoKillr
    4354 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    FF ain't really the problem. Go ahead and take yourself out of the game and sit next to your spawn resupply all you want. 

    The range of the SAA and MAA is the problem. I'd much rather DICE buff the damage output and decrease the range so us pilots can get some of the map back, it will also give smarter MAA and SAA users, who are patient and know when to engage, a better chance at killing planes. It will also make it less advantageous for MAA tanks to sit way back in their spawn safe from anything that isn't a plane.

    There's an argument floating around on here from certain people that say "you shouldn't need a plane to take out a plane", well ok, then a plane shouldn't be the only option of taking out an MAA.

    Yes, I know, infantry and tanks can take out MAA, but let's be realistic in how MAA is being used, they rarely leave the spawn, so in reality, planes are the only threat to these MAA's. Why leave the spawn if it provides you infinite health and ammo, you can reach planes across most of the map, and no one else can touch you?  Might as well sit there and munch on some doritos while you're at it.
    But it's not enough, ground wants 2 bags of Doritos. To be honest, all this sounds more like they want to be untouched. Awsome well spent 8 days of flight time so i can achieve that, how fun.

    facts on table:

    AA dominates sky. Planes can roam around only when there is no AA users.

    But hey, i have an idea. Since AA f-ups so many i.e dogfights, time to turn friendly fire on? Get my point?

    What a pair of upset bunnies we have here.

    Complaining ground players want to be untouched, while requesting nerf to AA range, so they camp and hide from the action. While using a excuse they want solo action.

    Now the MAA is stopping that as it can hide in spawn from ground troops, unlike the poor planes that can hide in outbound area too.

    As for the only option to take out a MAA is with a plane, come now such limited thinking what happened to telling others to adapt to take out planes surely such brilliant players can work out other ways.

    But a MAA has infinite ammo and health, right much slower then any plane. Then we have planes respawn in 90s yet a MAA takes 270s.

    MAA can shot across the map so can planes. Go on tell us how planes are so disadvantage.

    As has been pointed out if DICE want planes to dogfight they would be different. Planes like tanks have been design to be part of a team with their goal of help others take flags not race off to have ego boost 1v1.

    You don't find it fun, then do something different, BF has many aspects to play. Already to many players have left the game as they found it not fun while some solo players was allowed to be overly effective in their fun.
    It nmust be nice to think that your fun is so important that others must suffer.

    BF is a MP team game that has every player exposed to risk at spawn. No special privileges for any player no matter how much time they spend in a single aspect. The idea that a player can spend days as a Medic gets special privileges over a guy that spent 5 minutes in Support is so ridiculous.
  • cashm0n3y08
    272 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    What a pair of upset bunnies we have here.

    Complaining ground players want to be untouched, while requesting nerf to AA range, so they camp and hide from the action. While using a excuse they want solo action.


    Upset? Untouched? Where do you get "upset" or untouched from my last post? And indeed I said to nerf the range, but in exchange I said to buff damage output in order to reward skill. 

    Me personally? I'm still absolutlly eviscerating AA users with my fighters, both SAA and MAA. I'm more "annoyed," not "upset", that I have to keep spending so much time, most of the game actually, blowing up casuals on AA instead of shooting planes down. I'm even annoyed by friendly AA that just melts all these noob pilots before they can even fly to the other side of the map. I would say 20 minutes of an average 30 minute game, I spend fighting AA, mostly its salty bomber pilots that I shoot down that go right to it the rest of the game, because it's a crutch for them. They know the AA range is OP, and they would rather use that than try to hang with me in a dogfight. Plain and Simple. But "upset???" hahah, don't flatter yourself there Dingo. 
  • Man_ILoveFishing
    406 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited July 27
    FF ain't really the problem. Go ahead and take yourself out of the game and sit next to your spawn resupply all you want. 

    The range of the SAA and MAA is the problem. I'd much rather DICE buff the damage output and decrease the range so us pilots can get some of the map back, it will also give smarter MAA and SAA users, who are patient and know when to engage, a better chance at killing planes. It will also make it less advantageous for MAA tanks to sit way back in their spawn safe from anything that isn't a plane.

    There's an argument floating around on here from certain people that say "you shouldn't need a plane to take out a plane", well ok, then a plane shouldn't be the only option of taking out an MAA.

    Yes, I know, infantry and tanks can take out MAA, but let's be realistic in how MAA is being used, they rarely leave the spawn, so in reality, planes are the only threat to these MAA's. Why leave the spawn if it provides you infinite health and ammo, you can reach planes across most of the map, and no one else can touch you?  Might as well sit there and munch on some doritos while you're at it.
    But it's not enough, ground wants 2 bags of Doritos. To be honest, all this sounds more like they want to be untouched. Awsome well spent 8 days of flight time so i can achieve that, how fun.

    facts on table:

    AA dominates sky. Planes can roam around only when there is no AA users.

    But hey, i have an idea. Since AA f-ups so many i.e dogfights, time to turn friendly fire on? Get my point?

    What a pair of upset bunnies we have here.

    Complaining ground players want to be untouched, while requesting nerf to AA range, so they camp and hide from the action. While using a excuse they want solo action.

    Now the MAA is stopping that as it can hide in spawn from ground troops, unlike the poor planes that can hide in outbound area too.

    As for the only option to take out a MAA is with a plane, come now such limited thinking what happened to telling others to adapt to take out planes surely such brilliant players can work out other ways.

    But a MAA has infinite ammo and health, right much slower then any plane. Then we have planes respawn in 90s yet a MAA takes 270s.

    MAA can shot across the map so can planes. Go on tell us how planes are so disadvantage.

    As has been pointed out if DICE want planes to dogfight they would be different. Planes like tanks have been design to be part of a team with their goal of help others take flags not race off to have ego boost 1v1.

    You don't find it fun, then do something different, BF has many aspects to play. Already to many players have left the game as they found it not fun while some solo players was allowed to be overly effective in their fun.
    It nmust be nice to think that your fun is so important that others must suffer.

    BF is a MP team game that has every player exposed to risk at spawn. No special privileges for any player no matter how much time they spend in a single aspect. The idea that a player can spend days as a Medic gets special privileges over a guy that spent 5 minutes in Support is so ridiculous.
    No one i complaining, bunny.

    But okay, planes disadvantages.

    Limited amount of ammo.
    Rockets travel speed way way slower.
    Bombs explosive splash specially on fighters are smaller than hand grenades.
    Can't bomb SAA without getting killed (includes with quick fix), you can't line up circles, imo circles are annoying anyway, wish there was way to disable them.
    Poooooor visibility, different story when someone is spotted.

    AA:

    SAA can be redeployed very quickly back.
    MAA, can come closer, and can hide very quickly.
    FF, OHK diving planes.

    Like you said, team play but one can't even enter the field, i showed you a video example in Arras, you pointed that it's rubbish and wrong about SAA camping in spawn, yes there was another SAA on near field but it probably died.

    Here i repost:

    https://i.imgur.com/UIZ7LtV.png

    https://youtu.be/bYhqmZrETAE?t=2

    About fun, learning flying was suffer to me and that's my reward of being good. And no, i'm not talking just to operate planes, understanding the whole atmosphere/danger around you takes time. And about dogfights, its part of war and art. You see as a race, i see whos better understanding/operating planes, cause it's a thing that you wont learn in a week, and its only competitive part that game offers tbh. Hell, in 8k CS history i was really good AWP player, that's my reward. There was only 1 awp nerft made in CSGO, slowing movement down when zoomed in, yet no1 in forums cried for more nerfs. I learned to be faster, precise/sharp in sht load of hours. What i mean, AA buffs did more damage to air gameplay, not to ground play, still farmable. And reason why planes go low, i did today many times and cause of died many times. AA has long range and pilots are trying to avoid them by flying low, knowing that if they would fly in air out of AA range, they won't make it. And that's the bad part when destroyed SAA gets redeployed in few seconds. (Fighters)


    Bombers.

    Others suffer, so did i and learned to avoid places. I track planes, i count them and check for classes. You know when objective is stormed, there's gonna be obviously a bomb drop, specially in crowded areas, how is it hard to avoid that? In the beginning of rounds, when bomber spawnkills, hell, how hard is it to encounter first danger that's coming from skies and you can see to which direction and avoid it? I'm not saying it's right thing to spawnkill. Ofc not, but avoidable. Don't be stuck together in same square.
  • Man_ILoveFishing
    406 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    In conclusion, there is no room for planes.
  • cashm0n3y08
    272 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited July 27
    MAA can shot across the map so can planes. Go on tell us how planes are so disadvantage.


    Ok, sure. There is such a thing as an ace pilot, but I doubt there is such a thing as an "ace" or "elite" MAA tanker. Now with that in mind...

    In my hands, and good pilots alike, planes can overcome that disadvantage. A good pilot in a 1v1 vs an MAA will win almost every time, if not every time. HOWEVER! If you take two equally skilled players that have the same limited experience in both vehicles, give one an MAA, and the other a fighter, I would bet that the MAA will come out on top most if not all times. 

    So your statement isn't entirely true,  yes I am not at a disadvantage to an MAA, I kill them all the time, but for 99% of the playerbase, the planes are definitely, without a doubt, at a disadvantage against the MAA and SAA even. 
    Post edited by cashm0n3y08 on
  • Man_ILoveFishing
    406 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Celsi_GER said:
    (Quote)
    May I ask what flavor of Doritos you ate while doing this? After all, SAA does only require use of one hand. 

    I am not allowed to eat Doritos in office :smiley:

    You pilots should put the Fliegerfaust on the agenda of your next support group meeting again: one says that FF ain't really the problem, the other one says it's an invisible doomsday machine.
    It all depends how people play. One farms, no efficient on FF, other chases planes or plays field.
  • trip1ex
    5245 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    trip1ex said:
     being a dedicated FF soldier is playing the objective.  someone needs to take out the planes.  
    Do you consider the guys sitting around in the MAA/SAA all match to be playing the objective?   

    Engaging planes with the FF and actively trying to capture/defend specific objectives aren't mutually exclusive.
    Yep.  AA helps your team's pilots a huge amount which in turn helps your team cap and hold objectives.

    TEams don't have too many guys on AA last I checked.  


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