Wake Island may be the worst map I have ever played

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steampunch1
14 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
I am aware that Fjell exists.

For starters, am I the only person who hates Conquest Assault? Completely? In it's totality? Down to the very fundamental essence of whoever came up with this hairbrained concept? What is appealing about about it? DICE simply never manages to balance it as a concept. The attackers either stand no chance, or the defenders get completely steamrolled by default. There is almost zero middle ground. Back in BF1 you had stuff like Cape Helles where the attackers had to bend over backwards just to advance, and here at Wake Island there is nothing more unenjoyable than playing the Japanese. 

The US can attack any objective at any time they want. If the Japanese want to get around the island easier, they have garbage fishing boats. If the Americans want to get around the island easier, they have durable landing craft with machine guns on either side. This means as a defender it is functionally impossible to keep the Americans pushed back. The only time Americans hard fail on Wake Island is if their team either sucks completely, down to each and every player on the team, or if the teams are unbalanced. At best Japanese can hope to get the Americans close to losing, and once in a blue moon they even beat them through sheer hard work. And in this map, you HAVE to have almost all the objectives to stay afloat as Japanese because the starting ticket bonus for Americans is far too generous. Typically at roundstart, the Americans either rush A and F, go for C and D because of planes, or something like C and F. Usually they take those two objectives because there's not much the Japanese can do against an absolute zerg rush of players at any given objective. The Americans never split up evenly to attack cause it's a bad idea, but the Japanese are forced to split up between several objectives at round start because they simply do not know where the Americans will land. So, the Americans can be expected to get two objectives almost instantly, and from there it's not hard for them to get a third. If they do, they're evened out, and in my experience they commonly do this long before their ticket bonus has been drained. If the defenders are good and managed to beat them back an objective, the attackers will still usually have two objectives to attack from, and the ticket bleed won't be too bad.

Also, vehicles being tied to objectives for the Japanese is dumb. Since everyone's so scared to give Japan a base on this map cause of CQA, at least give them a guaranteed spawn of AT LEAST one tank. The Americans never have to worry about having no vehicles, but the Japanese have to work hard just to not lose the vehicles they have. If the Americans go for C and D, then boom: Japan has lost their plane power and America has gained it. If Japan manages to keep C and D, America still has their plane power and Japan can do nothing about it. When Americans already get a sizable ticket bonus AND the ability to attack any objective from many angles at any time, the vehicle problem for Japan is downright unreasonable. Don't even get me started on how it gets exponentially harder to defend as the attackers get more vehicles...

Lastly the general map design is boring. It's mostly flat, it has a horseshoe shape that boils it down to one long linear path from one end to another on foot. Many areas have lackluster cover and the foliage makes it easy for bush wookies to hide. It just feels like a worse Pacific Storm.

There's just nothing enjoyable about it. I'd rather stick a toothpick under my toenail and repeatedly kick a wall than play a single round on it, even as the Americans. What's the fun of knowing you will win even if you aren't doing so well? Even Fjell or Aerodrome I can bear enough to play, but Wake Island? Leave every time.

Comments

  • HugoPlayNow
    245 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Your comments are interesting, and I actually get exactly where you are coming from.  Defending the island is really tough.

    I have been on the side of successfully defending the island, but it only happened when our team was really good and well organized.  

    The biggest problem is the anti tank weapons are very weak and only work when used by multiple soldiers in unison.  Fighting tanks requires teamwork and strategy.  That only happens when you are lucky enough to get good people on your team.

    Even the AT mines suck....they are useless.  At least in BF1, At mines are enough to bring down a tank.
  • steampunch1
    14 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Your comments are interesting, and I actually get exactly where you are coming from.  Defending the island is really tough.

    I have been on the side of successfully defending the island, but it only happened when our team was really good and well organized.  

    The biggest problem is the anti tank weapons are very weak and only work when used by multiple soldiers in unison.  Fighting tanks requires teamwork and strategy.  That only happens when you are lucky enough to get good people on your team.

    Even the AT mines suck....they are useless.  At least in BF1, At mines are enough to bring down a tank.
    I think AT mines are actually better in this one, simply because the tanker will have a harder time seeing them. Mines were too obvious in BF1 IMO.

    But yeah defenders have it rough. This game seems to have far worse map balance than BF1 or BF4, with Wake Island, Aerodrome, etc.
  • HugoPlayNow
    245 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    In BF1, I'd lay mines in shadow lines and strategic areas where they were not as visible...never had a problem nailing tanks with them...lol.

    BF5 has horrible map and team balancing.  I still play it though, because it has so much better feel than CoD.  If I want to feel like I'm gliding on ice, I'll fire up my PS1.  At least in BF  I feel like I have boots on the ground.

    But the map designs....yeesh.  Especially the stationary weapons....Some maps I'll come upon a working stationary weapon that has no line of sight to anything!  What's the point?!?!
  • 123loreni
    304 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    I am aware that Fjell exists.

    For starters, am I the only person who hates Conquest Assault? Completely? In it's totality? Down to the very fundamental essence of whoever came up with this hairbrained concept? What is appealing about about it? DICE simply never manages to balance it as a concept. The attackers either stand no chance, or the defenders get completely steamrolled by default. There is almost zero middle ground. Back in BF1 you had stuff like Cape Helles where the attackers had to bend over backwards just to advance, and here at Wake Island there is nothing more unenjoyable than playing the Japanese. 

    The US can attack any objective at any time they want. If the Japanese want to get around the island easier, they have garbage fishing boats. If the Americans want to get around the island easier, they have durable landing craft with machine guns on either side. This means as a defender it is functionally impossible to keep the Americans pushed back. The only time Americans hard fail on Wake Island is if their team either sucks completely, down to each and every player on the team, or if the teams are unbalanced. At best Japanese can hope to get the Americans close to losing, and once in a blue moon they even beat them through sheer hard work. And in this map, you HAVE to have almost all the objectives to stay afloat as Japanese because the starting ticket bonus for Americans is far too generous. Typically at roundstart, the Americans either rush A and F, go for C and D because of planes, or something like C and F. Usually they take those two objectives because there's not much the Japanese can do against an absolute zerg rush of players at any given objective. The Americans never split up evenly to attack cause it's a bad idea, but the Japanese are forced to split up between several objectives at round start because they simply do not know where the Americans will land. So, the Americans can be expected to get two objectives almost instantly, and from there it's not hard for them to get a third. If they do, they're evened out, and in my experience they commonly do this long before their ticket bonus has been drained. If the defenders are good and managed to beat them back an objective, the attackers will still usually have two objectives to attack from, and the ticket bleed won't be too bad.

    Also, vehicles being tied to objectives for the Japanese is dumb. Since everyone's so scared to give Japan a base on this map cause of CQA, at least give them a guaranteed spawn of AT LEAST one tank. The Americans never have to worry about having no vehicles, but the Japanese have to work hard just to not lose the vehicles they have. If the Americans go for C and D, then boom: Japan has lost their plane power and America has gained it. If Japan manages to keep C and D, America still has their plane power and Japan can do nothing about it. When Americans already get a sizable ticket bonus AND the ability to attack any objective from many angles at any time, the vehicle problem for Japan is downright unreasonable. Don't even get me started on how it gets exponentially harder to defend as the attackers get more vehicles...

    Lastly the general map design is boring. It's mostly flat, it has a horseshoe shape that boils it down to one long linear path from one end to another on foot. Many areas have lackluster cover and the foliage makes it easy for bush wookies to hide. It just feels like a worse Pacific Storm.

    There's just nothing enjoyable about it. I'd rather stick a toothpick under my toenail and repeatedly kick a wall than play a single round on it, even as the Americans. What's the fun of knowing you will win even if you aren't doing so well? Even Fjell or Aerodrome I can bear enough to play, but Wake Island? Leave every time.

    Haven't read everything but I like Wake map in Breakthrough because it's like "move forward in narrow line."

    The graphical design of map is also very nice compared to Aerodrome etc...

    As for mines I haven't actually land 1 after 400 hours of play.

    And for BF1 I'm looking forward to buy it in about 6 months time to see WW1 action and to see why BFV sux so much =)


  • Noodlesocks
    3739 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Personally think Conquest Assault needs to be retired in general. It's an older game mode designed for an older set of rules and I don't think there has been a single Battlefield game since Battlefield 2 that has done it well. Breakthrough is in essence the kind of gameplay that Conquest Assault attempts to provide and does so with a more appropriate structure for modern Battlefield rules.
  • ElliotLH
    9771 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Personally think Conquest Assault needs to be retired in general. It's an older game mode designed for an older set of rules and I don't think there has been a single Battlefield game since Battlefield 2 that has done it well. Breakthrough is in essence the kind of gameplay that Conquest Assault attempts to provide and does so with a more appropriate structure for modern Battlefield rules.

    +1. Honestly, I don't think many people would mind if the mode was retired.

    It's good that they changed Hamada to regular Conquest too, as I remember that having the same issues when BFV came out.
  • trip1ex
    5289 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited November 2020
    I think it's the map and game design.

    It's too much work to weed out enemies amongst all the clutter. Too much work around to get around the map.  Too hard to know what is going on in the war sorta speak.

    ONe thing is for sure I don't think you can just slap CQA ( which worked in the old days)on the new rules and call it good.  I think you have to work on the design of the map/game to fit it.  

    I think one big problem is they made Wake (and others) for Breakthrough where every flag or two is designed to accommodate 64 players at once with the resulting feeling in Conquest  feeling like a little too much.  Kind of like the feeling you get if you walk around in a big modern suburb in the US that is obviously designed for cars and lots of cars.  Every thing seems a little too far apart if you're on foot.  YOu get some of that feeling in BFV Wake Island.  Like there is just too much junk around each flag making it feel a little too big in  Conquest.  




  • trip1ex
    5289 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    "The attackers either stand no chance, or the defenders get completely steamrolled by default."

    Sure but that's the experience in most every round for me in the past few BF games no matter the mode.  

    ONe side usually is dominating and if you look at the scoreboard, usually the one side dominating is full of the highest ranked players and the other side is full of  lesser ranked players.

    So skill balance is a factor in how well most everything plays in BF.  

    btw I think WAke Island would be just as bad if it wasn't CQA.  




  • 123loreni
    304 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited November 2020
    It's more like they should fix Provinence Breakthrough  map to add more tanks for the attackers at the first 2 flags....

    And I'd also delete Aerodrome because it looks dull and there are enough maps.
  • Hastyc0c0
    9 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    TLDR. also really bad player so opinion irrelevant 
  • Greeny_Huwjarz
    4743 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Hastyc0c0 said:
    TLDR. also really bad player so opinion irrelevant 
    I assume you are referring to yourself? 

    Wake Island is a pale shadow of the fantastic experience that was derived in BF2. Conquest assault has simply failed in both BF1 and BFV and should be abandoned as a game mode. In BF1 the attackers nearly ALWAYS win, unless they are braindead, and as has been stated above the balance in BFBV is also terrible. 
  • HugoPlayNow
    245 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Conquest in general is my favorite mode...1/2 hour get in get out matches with a great common goal.

    One thing I miss that CoD 2 had was actual Capture the Flag.  You actually grabbed an enemy flag and had to bring it back to your base for the point.  That was incredible fun and extremely tense action!  

    We would send a strategic air strike to soften the enemy's base, then 4 of us would hop in a jeep and race there under cover fire....one runs out, grabs the flag and we race back to home base to score....sometimes getting shot with only 3 steps left...lol.

    Best mode ever.
  • steampunch1
    14 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    trip1ex said:
    "The attackers either stand no chance, or the defenders get completely steamrolled by default."

    Sure but that's the experience in most every round for me in the past few BF games no matter the mode.  

    ONe side usually is dominating and if you look at the scoreboard, usually the one side dominating is full of the highest ranked players and the other side is full of  lesser ranked players.

    So skill balance is a factor in how well most everything plays in BF.  

    btw I think WAke Island would be just as bad if it wasn't CQA.  




    Not in my experience, especially on BF5. I commonly have rounds where things shift because some good squads pull good flanks and things like that. However, on Wake Island, if my team is doing poorly near the start as Japanese I know I'll lose. If my team isn't absolutely wretchedly sucking early on, I know I'll win as Americans.

    Hastyc0c0 said:
    TLDR. also really bad player so opinion irrelevant 
    If you're talking to me, my Battletracker info is OmittedTurtle81 on Xbox. 
  • bigiain
    401 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    It does feel like Conquest Assault confuses too many players now, players don't want to be the at the front of an attack. Conversely, it has to be the easiest way to re-purpose maps from the linear modes and players love linear set pieces like beach assaults.
  • Greeny_Huwjarz
    4743 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited November 2020
    trip1ex said:
    "The attackers either stand no chance, or the defenders get completely steamrolled by default."

    Sure but that's the experience in most every round for me in the past few BF games no matter the mode.  

    ONe side usually is dominating and if you look at the scoreboard, usually the one side dominating is full of the highest ranked players and the other side is full of  lesser ranked players.

    So skill balance is a factor in how well most everything plays in BF.  

    btw I think WAke Island would be just as bad if it wasn't CQA.  




    Not in my experience, especially on BF5. I commonly have rounds where things shift because some good squads pull good flanks and things like that. However, on Wake Island, if my team is doing poorly near the start as Japanese I know I'll lose. If my team isn't absolutely wretchedly sucking early on, I know I'll win as Americans.

    Hastyc0c0 said:
    TLDR. also really bad player so opinion irrelevant 
    If you're talking to me, my Battletracker info is OmittedTurtle81 on Xbox. 
    @steampunch1 - He was really dismissive of your post wasn't he?  Only on the basis of your ability.

    His PSN is: HASTYC0C0_

    Stat shaming if is not allowed.  So I’ll leave it there, but I will say that there is a delicious irony about that ‘opinion irrelevant’ comment.  
    Post edited by Greeny_Huwjarz on
  • trip1ex
    5289 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    trip1ex said:
    "The attackers either stand no chance, or the defenders get completely steamrolled by default."

    Sure but that's the experience in most every round for me in the past few BF games no matter the mode.  

    ONe side usually is dominating and if you look at the scoreboard, usually the one side dominating is full of the highest ranked players and the other side is full of  lesser ranked players.

    So skill balance is a factor in how well most everything plays in BF.  

    btw I think WAke Island would be just as bad if it wasn't CQA.  




    Not in my experience, especially on BF5. I commonly have rounds where things shift because some good squads pull good flanks and things like that. However, on Wake Island, if my team is doing poorly near the start as Japanese I know I'll lose. If my team isn't absolutely wretchedly sucking early on, I know I'll win as Americans.

    Hastyc0c0 said:
    TLDR. also really bad player so opinion irrelevant 
    If you're talking to me, my Battletracker info is OmittedTurtle81 on Xbox. 
     people think leaving the front wide open and attacking a back flag is a flank.  it's not.  It's a flag exchange.  
  • steampunch1
    14 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    trip1ex said:
    trip1ex said:
    "The attackers either stand no chance, or the defenders get completely steamrolled by default."

    Sure but that's the experience in most every round for me in the past few BF games no matter the mode.  

    ONe side usually is dominating and if you look at the scoreboard, usually the one side dominating is full of the highest ranked players and the other side is full of  lesser ranked players.

    So skill balance is a factor in how well most everything plays in BF.  

    btw I think WAke Island would be just as bad if it wasn't CQA.  




    Not in my experience, especially on BF5. I commonly have rounds where things shift because some good squads pull good flanks and things like that. However, on Wake Island, if my team is doing poorly near the start as Japanese I know I'll lose. If my team isn't absolutely wretchedly sucking early on, I know I'll win as Americans.

    Hastyc0c0 said:
    TLDR. also really bad player so opinion irrelevant 
    If you're talking to me, my Battletracker info is OmittedTurtle81 on Xbox. 
     people think leaving the front wide open and attacking a back flag is a flank.  it's not.  It's a flag exchange.  
    No, I mean real flanks. Good squads don't go with the blueberries to attack whichever objective seems to be the hard fought focus (like C on Aerodrome or E/B on Twisted Steel), they let the blueberries distract the other team there while they go and flank some other objective, like G or F on Twisted Steel. It doesn't always work, but it gets you the majority of objectives most of the time and is better than headbutting a brick wall via attacking an overpopulated objective.
  • CPU_UK
    1146 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited November 2020
    The Japanese lose on Wake for the following:- At the start 80% go A, 20% go F to defend. Planes fly around A. Smart USA goes D\ C via thereby denying the Japanese the airfield and taking away their main tactical advantage and so eating the flags from the inside. For the Japanese D\C are critical and must be kept at all costs.
    Post edited by CPU_UK on
  • AmosBurton_GER
    947 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    I am aware that Fjell exists.

    LOL
    Gave you an upvote already here :D:D:D

  • NuttysKunKs
    577 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    If you can defend properly A-F are the 2 flags that really matter!!

    Keeps the enemy separated rather than clearing the island as a unit.
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