the kill-trade is out of control. ruined the game!

13468911

Comments

  • Rev0verDrive
    6762 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    After playing today I found that 20% of my deaths are kill trades. My high was 4 kill trades out of 14 deaths. It is far too prevalent to be any fun.

    Latency sucks.
  • BGHFlakjacket
    1286 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    After playing today I found that 20% of my deaths are kill trades. My high was 4 kill trades out of 14 deaths. It is far too prevalent to be any fun.

    Latency sucks.

    I run 15 on West Coast and 80 on East Coast consistently. My hookup on West coast is usually the best in the game.

  • disposalist
    9011 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    After playing today I found that 20% of my deaths are kill trades. My high was 4 kill trades out of 14 deaths. It is far too prevalent to be any fun.
    You need to stop throwing yourself into dangerous face-to-face combat without thought to your safety and hoping for the old kill-them-first-to-miraculously-not-die thing. Adapt. Use some real tactics like finding cover, using movement and position, waiting for your teammates.

    If you *are* being careful then you've just been very unlucky. I haven't had anything like that proportion of trades.
  • BGHFlakjacket
    1286 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    After playing today I found that 20% of my deaths are kill trades. My high was 4 kill trades out of 14 deaths. It is far too prevalent to be any fun.
    You need to stop throwing yourself into dangerous face-to-face combat without thought to your safety and hoping for the old kill-them-first-to-miraculously-not-die thing. Adapt. Use some real tactics like finding cover, using movement and position, waiting for your teammates.

    If you *are* being careful then you've just been very unlucky. I haven't had anything like that proportion of trades.

    Hmmmm, so I should camp on a hill? I play the objective and cap flags. It is hard to avoid CQB while doing this.

  • Quijotesco24
    104 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    I'm the first not being happy with the spring update changes.
    Also I'm getting around 3/4 trade kills on every match. I think It favors a lot low ping players.

    But after 2 weeks playing with trade-kill system I think is a great new feature to the game. No more bullets dissapering mid air is nice. It's fair.

    Don't Care if I get killed more because of it but any new change that brings fairness to the table is welcomed.
  • foff667
    579 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    After playing today I found that 20% of my deaths are kill trades. My high was 4 kill trades out of 14 deaths. It is far too prevalent to be any fun.
    You need to stop throwing yourself into dangerous face-to-face combat without thought to your safety and hoping for the old kill-them-first-to-miraculously-not-die thing. Adapt. Use some real tactics like finding cover, using movement and position, waiting for your teammates.

    If you *are* being careful then you've just been very unlucky. I haven't had anything like that proportion of trades.

    Hmmmm, so I should camp on a hill? I play the objective and cap flags. It is hard to avoid CQB while doing this.

    pretty much. I've also had a good proportion of kill trades maybe 50% of my deaths though I'm probably overestimating. I've kill traded with someone with a melee weapon, shot guns, etc. How fun is that, landing 3 shots with mondragon on someone, killing them but they one shot kill you with a shotgun kill trade, yeah fun times.
  • foff667
    579 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    speak of the devil it looks like they are tweaking the kill trade system in CTE currently.
  • BGHFlakjacket
    1286 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    foff667 wrote: »
    speak of the devil it looks like they are tweaking the kill trade system in CTE currently.

    Sadly they are waiting for CTE to fix it.
  • jmgargoyle
    2463 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Cte is probably working on the melee kill trade under 30 m. Mentioned above....
  • Rev0verDrive
    6762 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    @BGHFlakjacket I was just saying that Latency is one of the largest determiners of who wins the fight first.

    Weapon RPM, Muzzle Velocity, Distance, Latency (UTT)

    RPM dictates the minimum delay between shots.
    shot_delay_interval = 1000 / (RPM/60);
    
    Muzzle velocity dictates bullet travel time to target.
    meters_per_ms = (1000 / Velocity);
    Bullet_TT= meters_per_ms * Distance; // milliseconds
    
    Packet travel time one way; client -> server, vice versa.
    UTT = Latency / 2;
    
    Automatico (900RPM, 380m/s)
    shot_delay_interval = 1000 / (900/60); // 66.66ms
    meters_per_ms = (1000 / 380); // 2.63
    
    MP 18 (550RPM, 420m/s)
    shot_delay_interval = 1000 / (550/60); // 109.09ms
    meters_per_ms = 1000 / 420; // 2.38
    

    Distance between players 6m, all shots hit (100% accuracy). Both players start shooting full auto at the same time.

    Client A - Timeline firing sequence - Automatico, 30ms ping
    Hit registration time = time of firing + (meters_per_ms * distance) + Client A UTT + Processing time
    e.g. 66.66 + (2.63 * 6) + 15 + 1 = 98.44ms
    
    s1 fired at 0.00ms: hits at 15.78ms, Server Registers hit at 31.78ms, sent to client B (30ms), Client B receives damage/hit data at 61.78ms
    s2 fired at 66.66ms: hits at 82.44ms, Server Registers hit at 98.44ms, sent to client B (30ms), Client B receives damage/hit data at 128.44ms
    s3 fired at 133.32ms: hits at 149.1ms, Server Registers hit at 165.1ms, sent to client B (30ms), Client B receives damage/hit data at 195.1ms
    s4 fired at 199.98ms: hits at 215.76ms, Server Registers hit at 231.76ms, sent to client B (30ms), Client B receives damage/hit data at 261.76ms
    s5 fired at 266.64ms: hits at 282.42ms, Server Registers hit at 298.42ms, sent to client B (30ms), Client B receives damage/hit data at 328.42ms

    Client B - Timeline firing sequence - MP 18, 60ms ping
    Hit registration time = time of firing + (meters_per_ms * distance) + Client B UTT + Processing time
    e.g. 109.09 + (2.38 * 6) + 30 + 1 = 154.37ms
    
    s1 fired at 0.00ms: hits at 14.28ms, Server Registers hit at 45.28ms, sent to client A (30ms), Client A receives damage/hit data at 60.28ms
    s2 fired at 109.09ms, hits at 123.37ms, Server Registers hit at 154.37ms, sent to client A (30ms), Client A receives damage/hit data at 169.37ms
    s3 fired at 218.18ms, hits at 232.46ms, Server Registers hit at 263.47ms, sent to client A (30ms), Client A receives damage/hit data at 278.46ms
    s4 fired at 327.27ms, Shot nullified, do to death prior to shot being fired. Client B doesn't know s/he is dead until 328.42ms

    Client B is officially registered dead on the server at 298.42ms

    You can fiddle with the first shot times to see the different outcomes. All four of these variables (Weapon RPM, Muzzle Velocity, Distance, Latency (UTT)) play a vital role in determining the outcome of every fire fight. Obviously Damage is a vital component, yet for the example I used 6m providing a maximum 23 dmg per hit for both weapons.

    The point is to highlight that it's not all about who fired first. It's about who gets registered by the server first.
  • disposalist
    9011 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    After playing today I found that 20% of my deaths are kill trades. My high was 4 kill trades out of 14 deaths. It is far too prevalent to be any fun.
    You need to stop throwing yourself into dangerous face-to-face combat without thought to your safety and hoping for the old kill-them-first-to-miraculously-not-die thing. Adapt. Use some real tactics like finding cover, using movement and position, waiting for your teammates.

    If you *are* being careful then you've just been very unlucky. I haven't had anything like that proportion of trades.

    Hmmmm, so I should camp on a hill? I play the objective and cap flags. It is hard to avoid CQB while doing this.
    You can PTFO without running at the enemy like a headless chicken relying on reaction time and evaporating bullets.
  • disposalist
    9011 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    edited May 2017
    foff667 wrote: »
    After playing today I found that 20% of my deaths are kill trades. My high was 4 kill trades out of 14 deaths. It is far too prevalent to be any fun.
    You need to stop throwing yourself into dangerous face-to-face combat without thought to your safety and hoping for the old kill-them-first-to-miraculously-not-die thing. Adapt. Use some real tactics like finding cover, using movement and position, waiting for your teammates.

    If you *are* being careful then you've just been very unlucky. I haven't had anything like that proportion of trades.

    Hmmmm, so I should camp on a hill? I play the objective and cap flags. It is hard to avoid CQB while doing this.

    pretty much. I've also had a good proportion of kill trades maybe 50% of my deaths though I'm probably overestimating. I've kill traded with someone with a melee weapon, shot guns, etc. How fun is that, landing 3 shots with mondragon on someone, killing them but they one shot kill you with a shotgun kill trade, yeah fun times.
    You're utterly ignoring half of what I posted. Kill trades happen when the enemy got the kill shot on you. You fired and they fired within 0.025 seconds of each other. You both made the kill shot. It is what happened.

    Let's explain it from the other direction and see if it gets through: -

    You didn't like dying even though it was fair? Before the kill trade fix, the enemy would have made their killing shot - pulled the trigger, heard the shot, seen the muzzle flash - should have killed you - and not got the kill! Happened to me a lot. A damned sight less fun than a fair kill trade.

    If it spoils your fun to die, then Battlefield is not for you is it? You die, you respawn. Most of us like a fair game. You both make the killing shot while you are alive? You both die.
  • Private_UMPalot
    4234 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    On conquest i only get 1 or 2 kill trades a round, and that's when i get top for flag caps or defends. You must be unaware or unlucky in your surroundings.

    I guess in Dom or TDM you would see it more. I don't play those modes so cannot say.
  • disposalist
    9011 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    edited May 2017
    The point is to highlight that it's not all about who fired first. It's about who gets registered by the server first.
    Of course latency comes into it. Latency comes into every bullet fired. Latency means that people get hit when they strictly shouldn't have been, whether or not they were also shooting at someone.

    DICE can tweak with it and no doubt will, but as I've said above, if you want to add some challenging, realistic and beneficial (subjectively I suppose) tactics, then not only should bullets not disappear, but triggers should be held for seconds after that mortal wound.

    A couple of hundred milliseconds of overlap is immaterial to what is fair when the bullets are flying. Do you think if two real soldiers stand up from cover at the same time and start firing there isn't a more than good chance they will both be killed? 200ms would make no difference.

    Either way it comes down to one thing: do you want combat that is more dangerous and requires more respect, thought and tactics or do you want to stick with the established eSports magical disappearing bullets combat because it's what you're used to?
  • GRIZZ11283
    4839 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    The ones wanting it removed are gods and never lost a gunfight until this was introduced.
    K/D is king in their eyes.
  • disposalist
    9011 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    GRIZZ11283 wrote: »
    The ones wanting it removed are gods and never lost a gunfight until this was introduced.
    K/D is king in their eyes.
    Well, I wouldn't put it quite like that, but I'd say, yes, it seems some aren't really prioritising fairness or the quality of game mechanics in their objections.
  • foff667
    579 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    game mechanics lol

    I love all the people that cry that its fair now but wasn't before, so how is it if I hit someone with a sniper rifle from 60m out and get a 60 damage marker and in the meantime while I'm switching to my secondary the person I shot simply puts 4 or 5 rounds from an assault rifle or 1 from a shotgun in me for the win how exactly is that fair or a good game mechanic? I mean if I shoot someone in their shooting arm shouldn't they not be able to fire their weapon until they switch arms? Games are games, there might be a smidgen of realize in them but in the end they are a game. And in a GAME there should be a winner & a loser not two "winners" or two "losers"

    I will reiterate they removed kill trading from BF4 in the end, why put it back in BF1? Just to be different? Its a horrible mechanic IMO and we're all entitled to our opinions even if you guys are all wrong ;-)
  • GRIZZ11283
    4839 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    foff667 wrote: »
    game mechanics lol

    I love all the people that cry that its fair now but wasn't before, so how is it if I hit someone with a sniper rifle from 60m out and get a 60 damage marker and in the meantime while I'm switching to my secondary the person I shot simply puts 4 or 5 rounds from an assault rifle or 1 from a shotgun in me for the win how exactly is that fair or a good game mechanic? I mean if I shoot someone in their shooting arm shouldn't they not be able to fire their weapon until they switch arms? Games are games, there might be a smidgen of realize in them but in the end they are a game. And in a GAME there should be a winner & a loser not two "winners" or two "losers"

    I will reiterate they removed kill trading from BF4 in the end, why put it back in BF1? Just to be different? Its a horrible mechanic IMO and we're all entitled to our opinions even if you guys are all wrong ;-)

    Please explain how bullets disappearing is actually good?
  • olavafar
    2261 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited May 2017
    They should make it an option. If I have trade on I get a trade (when applicable). If I have it off, I be sorted last in the player list so that I will lose the gunfights and my bullets will be deleted. If two players with the option off meets, program will pick a random winner.

    Problem solved and everybody happy.
  • GRIZZ11283
    4839 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    olavafar wrote: »
    They should make it an option. If I have trade on I get a trade (when applicable). If I have it off, I be sorted last in the player list so that I will lose the gunfights and my bullets will be deleted. If two players with the option off meets, program will pick a random winner.

    Problem solved and everybody happy.

    Not problem solved and no not everyone will be happy.
Sign In or Register to comment.