the kill-trade is out of control. ruined the game!

Comments

  • hawcer
    3289 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    After playing today I found that 20% of my deaths are kill trades. My high was 4 kill trades out of 14 deaths. It is far too prevalent to be any fun.

    so...normally your just would have got 14 deaths? Look, now with kill trades you got 4 freebee kills. :p
  • disposalist
    9011 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    foff667 wrote: »
    game mechanics lol

    I love all the people that cry that its fair now but wasn't before, so how is it if I hit someone with a sniper rifle from 60m out and get a 60 damage marker and in the meantime while I'm switching to my secondary the person I shot simply puts 4 or 5 rounds from an assault rifle or 1 from a shotgun in me for the win how exactly is that fair or a good game mechanic? I mean if I shoot someone in their shooting arm shouldn't they not be able to fire their weapon until they switch arms? Games are games, there might be a smidgen of realize in them but in the end they are a game. And in a GAME there should be a winner & a loser not two "winners" or two "losers"

    I will reiterate they removed kill trading from BF4 in the end, why put it back in BF1? Just to be different? Its a horrible mechanic IMO and we're all entitled to our opinions even if you guys are all wrong ;-)
    That's not a similar or good example, since weapon balance is great in BF1 and weapon balance doesn't rely on strict fairness or direct equality. Scout rifles doing 60 up close is no different than LMGs doing low damage per round or assault having early damage drop off or medics having random deviation on rifles very similar to scouts that don't. It's balance. Scouts are good farther away. If they were good close up too everyone would play scout. There are a lot of moves away from reality in the name of balance.

    Kill trading is nothing to do with balance. It's the same for everyone no matter the situation. Two people have made a killing shot (or hit or grenade throw or whatever) while they were both alive. Skilled shot, lucky shot, ranged, CQC, doesn't matter - the kill is done. Before the fix, bullets, grenades, whatever just disappeared into thin air and people were denied a kill they had rightfully achieved. It was extremely frustrating. Now they do not.

    It's a tactical and fairness improvement that favours no one and benefits all (except those that cannot adjust to anything other than established competitive-style gunplay).
  • olavafar
    2261 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    GRIZZ11283 wrote: »
    olavafar wrote: »
    They should make it an option. If I have trade on I get a trade (when applicable). If I have it off, I be sorted last in the player list so that I will lose the gunfights and my bullets will be deleted. If two players with the option off meets, program will pick a random winner.

    Problem solved and everybody happy.

    Not problem solved and no not everyone will be happy.

    Who could not be happy with this solution? It is basically the old behavior for those who want it (or at least they will not be able to tell the difference) and the new behavior for those who prefer a bit more deterministic behavior. But I was joking of course ;).
  • Sixclicks
    5075 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    On conquest i only get 1 or 2 kill trades a round, and that's when i get top for flag caps or defends. You must be unaware or unlucky in your surroundings.

    I guess in Dom or TDM you would see it more. I don't play those modes so cannot say.

    In 5 rounds of Domination and half a round of Conquest the other night, I had no more than 5 kill trades. So it really wasn't bad in the smaller game modes either. Although since you do tend to kill more enemies per minute in the smaller game modes, you will likely experience them a little more frequently than in the larger game modes just because there are more opportunities for it to happen. I play on PC and generally have a pretty consistent ping of 16-18ms on US East servers. I was mostly playing as a scout with the Martini-Henry that night. I'd assume kill trading is more frequent with automatic weapons though.
  • nickies1004
    26 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    5/11 CTE change

    "Tweaked values to reduce number of kill trades within 30m radius."

    There you go guys!
  • hawcer
    3289 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    5/11 CTE change

    "Tweaked values to reduce number of kill trades within 30m radius."

    There you go guys!

    If that isn't taken out of context...that's just stupid.
    Iff any tweeking was needed...within 10m or 5m, would have been the best radius to adjust.
  • nickies1004
    26 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    edited May 2017
    hawcer wrote: »
    5/11 CTE change

    "Tweaked values to reduce number of kill trades within 30m radius."

    There you go guys!

    If that isn't taken out of context...that's just stupid.
    Iff any tweeking was needed...within 10m or 5m, would have been the best radius to adjust.

    agree.
  • GRIZZ11283
    4839 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    5/11 CTE change

    "Tweaked values to reduce number of kill trades within 30m radius."

    There you go guys!

    Not exactly Mr current affairs are you, their testing the removal of melee tradekills
  • disposalist
    9011 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    GRIZZ11283 wrote: »
    5/11 CTE change

    "Tweaked values to reduce number of kill trades within 30m radius."

    There you go guys!

    Not exactly Mr current affairs are you, their testing the removal of melee tradekills
    They don't have to test it. It's silly. Why shouldn't melee trade kills happen? If anything they are more realistic. The time for a stab or bash to kill you is going to be greater than a bullet most times.

    i understand there's no 'flight time' for a club, so strictly, yes, trade kills are about bullets in flight and melee trade kills shouldn't happen, but IMHO it's fine that they do.
  • GRIZZ11283
    4839 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    GRIZZ11283 wrote: »
    5/11 CTE change

    "Tweaked values to reduce number of kill trades within 30m radius."

    There you go guys!

    Not exactly Mr current affairs are you, their testing the removal of melee tradekills
    They don't have to test it. It's silly. Why shouldn't melee trade kills happen? If anything they are more realistic. The time for a stab or bash to kill you is going to be greater than a bullet most times.

    i understand there's no 'flight time' for a club, so strictly, yes, trade kills are about bullets in flight and melee trade kills shouldn't happen, but IMHO it's fine that they do.

    I agree, should just leave it as it is now.
  • rock1obsta
    3819 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    GRIZZ11283 wrote: »
    foff667 wrote: »
    game mechanics lol

    I love all the people that cry that its fair now but wasn't before, so how is it if I hit someone with a sniper rifle from 60m out and get a 60 damage marker and in the meantime while I'm switching to my secondary the person I shot simply puts 4 or 5 rounds from an assault rifle or 1 from a shotgun in me for the win how exactly is that fair or a good game mechanic? I mean if I shoot someone in their shooting arm shouldn't they not be able to fire their weapon until they switch arms? Games are games, there might be a smidgen of realize in them but in the end they are a game. And in a GAME there should be a winner & a loser not two "winners" or two "losers"

    I will reiterate they removed kill trading from BF4 in the end, why put it back in BF1? Just to be different? Its a horrible mechanic IMO and we're all entitled to our opinions even if you guys are all wrong ;-)

    Please explain how bullets disappearing is actually good?

    Nobody is going to, man. It's much easier to gloss over such a glaring inconsistency than to admit that it's pretty ridiculous.
  • bapman63
    935 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    Its a free consolation kill because 3 weeks ago, you were dead and i was alive. Now you get a free kill because of the patch.
    3 weeks ago you were getting kills you shouldn't have.

    He's still getting the kill same as three weeks ago, the change is now your getting the freebie for being lucky not quick or skillful.
  • hawcer
    3289 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    bapman63 wrote: »
    Its a free consolation kill because 3 weeks ago, you were dead and i was alive. Now you get a free kill because of the patch.
    3 weeks ago you were getting kills you shouldn't have.

    He's still getting the kill same as three weeks ago, the change is now your getting the freebie for being lucky not quick or skillful.

    The unskillful ones, are the guys getting their butt filled with lead and happen to get off a luck shot that kills the guy shooting them first( cough,cough, shotgun,cough,cough)

    Now you get to die too since that stream of bullets heading at you from the guy you just killed don't vanish.

    it's got nothing to do with luck, it being fair to both parties involved.
  • aseveredfoot
    2467 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    I traded kills with a guy the other night: He killed me with a 1903 Sniper and I killed him with a club. I was laughing so hard I didn't notice when I got revived.

    Killtrades are fine.
  • jmgargoyle
    2463 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    olavafar wrote: »
    GRIZZ11283 wrote: »
    olavafar wrote: »
    They should make it an option. If I have trade on I get a trade (when applicable). If I have it off, I be sorted last in the player list so that I will lose the gunfights and my bullets will be deleted. If two players with the option off meets, program will pick a random winner.

    Problem solved and everybody happy.

    Not problem solved and no not everyone will be happy.

    Who could not be happy with this solution? It is basically the old behavior for those who want it (or at least they will not be able to tell the difference) and the new behavior for those who prefer a bit more deterministic behavior. But I was joking of course ;).

    Your idea Kind of resembles the current state of auto aim?! And we know everyone's estaticly thrilled with it......lol....point made
  • jmgargoyle
    2463 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited May 2017
    GRIZZ11283 wrote: »
    5/11 CTE change

    "Tweaked values to reduce number of kill trades within 30m radius."

    There you go guys!

    Not exactly Mr current affairs are you, their testing the removal of melee tradekills
    They don't have to test it. It's silly. Why shouldn't melee trade kills happen? If anything they are more realistic. The time for a stab or bash to kill you is going to be greater than a bullet most times.

    i understand there's no 'flight time' for a club, so strictly, yes, trade kills are about bullets in flight and melee trade kills shouldn't happen, but IMHO it's fine that they do.

    They absolutely should happen because like you said, melee kill shot would take longer to incapacitate the enemy thereby giving them ample response time to retaliate as well. The only reason they're nerfing it is for the people that are whining it happens too much.....
  • leatheryfrog225
    69 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Bullets should not disappear once someone dies, I don't care how annoying kill trades are, it is more realistic, I have cried about so much **** about the spring update but I can't possibly cry about this.
  • Rev0verDrive
    6762 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited May 2017
    The point is to highlight that it's not all about who fired first. It's about who gets registered by the server first.
    Of course latency comes into it. Latency comes into every bullet fired. Latency means that people get hit when they strictly shouldn't have been, whether or not they were also shooting at someone.

    DICE can tweak with it and no doubt will, but as I've said above, if you want to add some challenging, realistic and beneficial (subjectively I suppose) tactics, then not only should bullets not disappear, but triggers should be held for seconds after that mortal wound.

    A couple of hundred milliseconds of overlap is immaterial to what is fair when the bullets are flying. Do you think if two real soldiers stand up from cover at the same time and start firing there isn't a more than good chance they will both be killed? 200ms would make no difference.

    Either way it comes down to one thing: do you want combat that is more dangerous and requires more respect, thought and tactics or do you want to stick with the established eSports magical disappearing bullets combat because it's what you're used to?

    I was stating mathematically that kill trades should happen. But I was also trying to highlight that "perceived skill" is a byproduct of those 4 variables.

    e.g.

    Client A - Timeline firing sequence - 150ms latency, Hellriegel
    s1 fired at 0.00ms: hits at 15.78ms, Server Registers hit at 91.78ms, sent to client B (10ms), Client B receives damage/hit data at 101.78ms
    s2 fired at 92.3ms: hits at 108.08ms, Server Registers hit at 184.78ms, sent to client B (10ms), Client B receives damage/hit data at 194.78ms
    s3 fired at 184.6ms: hits at 203.38ms, Server Registers hit at 279.38ms, sent to client B (10ms), Client B receives damage/hit data at 289.38ms
    s4 fired at 276.9ms: hits at 292.68ms, Server Registers hit at 368.68ms, sent to client B (10ms), Client B receives damage/hit data at 378.68ms
    s5 fired at 369.2ms: hits at 384.98ms, Server Registers hit at 460.98ms, sent to client B (10ms), Client B receives damage/hit data at 470.98ms

    Client B - Timeline firing sequence - 20ms latency, Automatico
    s1 fired at 101.78ms: hits at 117.56ms, Server Registers hit at 128.56ms, sent to client A (75ms), Client A receives damage/hit data at 203.56ms
    s2 fired at 168.44ms: hits at 184.22ms, Server Registers hit at 195.22ms, sent to client A (75ms), Client A receives damage/hit data at 270.22ms
    s3 fired at 235.1ms: hits at 250.88ms, Server Registers hit at 261.88ms, sent to client A (75ms), Client A receives damage/hit data at 336.88ms
    s4 fired at 301.76ms: hits at 317.54ms, Server Registers hit at 328.54ms, sent to client A (75ms), Client A receives damage/hit data at 403.54ms
    s5 fired at 368.42.ms: hits at 384.2ms, Server Registers hit at 395.2ms, sent to client A (75ms), Client A receives damage/hit data at 470.2ms

    Client A shoots First and Dies at 395.2ms. This is due to Client B's higher ROF and lower latency. Client B still dies at 460.98ms (kill trade).

    Even if you remove latency all together. 0ms, no packet sends as IRL. You'd use the "hit times".

    Client B's kill shot hits at 384.2ms. Client A's kill shot hits at 384.98ms. Client A's shot counts because it was in air before death occurred.

    edit .....

    For Mortal Wound friendly fire would need to be on, no aim control, recoil would take over. headshot deaths and additional hits nullify trigger hold.
  • TartarusDw_n2w8
    8 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    I don't know if y'all been having the problem of shooting someone first and then they fired 1 or 2 shots back. bang both of you died 7 out of 10 gun fight. it's BS,

    this all started after their new netcode or hitreg/detection update.

    i don't know much about netcode or hitreg/detection but i think they increased kill trade. please fix this. it's stupid.

    this is like giving away free kills to the people who can't aim and don't know how to control their weapon! good job. DICE!

    this is going to make people don't want to play bf1.

    any admin out there??

    thank you!

    I agree, I do not like the kill trading update.

  • jmgargoyle
    2463 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    I don't know if y'all been having the problem of shooting someone first and then they fired 1 or 2 shots back. bang both of you died 7 out of 10 gun fight. it's BS,

    this all started after their new netcode or hitreg/detection update.

    i don't know much about netcode or hitreg/detection but i think they increased kill trade. please fix this. it's stupid.

    this is like giving away free kills to the people who can't aim and don't know how to control their weapon! good job. DICE!

    this is going to make people don't want to play bf1.

    any admin out there??

    thank you!

    I agree, I do not like the kill trading update.

    Oh well? It's more realistic than it was before. Now the bullets fired continue on the direction they were fired instead of disappearing just because you fired first. Don't want kill trades?fire first and fast....
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