Random Deviation is for Bads

2

Comments

  • TheRealPCNoob
    82 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield Member
    SYM-Duck wrote: »
    > complains about deviation being for bads

    > has 1.5 KD @ .2 KPM in BF4
    So true. Love your vids by the way.
    SYM-Duck wrote: »
    > complains about deviation being for bads

    > has 1.5 KD @ .2 KPM in BF4

    Stop the stat shaming s***. Worst part about discussing anything with you stat trolls at symthic.

    You prove nothing other than your own ability to dig through someone's stuff, to underwrite their comments. Uncalled for.

    The OP literally introduced this argument when he/she tells everyone who agrees with the opposing argument that they are bad. Not at all uncalled for.
  • owltro
    3356 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    WTF I just checked duck's comments and it's him!!!! Hope he doesn't find my comments cancer :sweat_smile:
  • owltro
    3356 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    owltro wrote: »
    SYM-Duck wrote: »
    > complains about deviation being for bads

    > has 1.5 KD @ .2 KPM in BF4

    Stop the stat shaming s***. Worst part about discussing anything with you stat trolls at symthic.

    You prove nothing other than your own ability to dig through someone's stuff, to underwrite their comments. Uncalled for.
    tolapsium let's be honest, s1ng deserves this...
    also this guys name is SYM-Duck and that's marbleduck's username in bf1... Marbleduck confirmed? :anguished:
    Maybe it is? I didn't like duck about a year ago, but he has proven to be a very intelligent bf player, he has a great way of explaining mechanics.
    It's him!!! :smiley:

  • KingTolapsium
    5491 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    SYM-Duck wrote: »
    > complains about deviation being for bads

    > has 1.5 KD @ .2 KPM in BF4
    So true. Love your vids by the way.
    SYM-Duck wrote: »
    > complains about deviation being for bads

    > has 1.5 KD @ .2 KPM in BF4

    Stop the stat shaming s***. Worst part about discussing anything with you stat trolls at symthic.

    You prove nothing other than your own ability to dig through someone's stuff, to underwrite their comments. Uncalled for.

    The OP literally introduced this argument when he/she tells everyone who agrees with the opposing argument that they are bad. Not at all uncalled for.

    Stay shaming is always uncalled for.

    I do not care, why, or what for. It is unneeded.
  • TheRealPCNoob
    82 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield Member
    I find people who like random deviation are usually bad at the game. It only lowers the skill gap because it penalizes people who could actually somewhat counter a recoil based system with skill from good hand-eye coordination. It makes their shots randomly miss their targets for no reason.
    .
    You can do everything random deviation does with recoil, sway, bullet drop, damage drop off, and bullet drag, but better.
    .
    Proper gun mechanics in a modern FPS shown below (recoil only):

    begin at 57 seconds in
    .

    begin at 1:04

    Too bad you can't justify why a solution with "recoil, sway, bullet drop, damage drop-off, and bullet drag" is "better" than the current solution, spread.
  • owltro
    3356 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    SYM-Duck wrote: »
    > complains about deviation being for bads

    > has 1.5 KD @ .2 KPM in BF4
    So true. Love your vids by the way.
    SYM-Duck wrote: »
    > complains about deviation being for bads

    > has 1.5 KD @ .2 KPM in BF4

    Stop the stat shaming s***. Worst part about discussing anything with you stat trolls at symthic.

    You prove nothing other than your own ability to dig through someone's stuff, to underwrite their comments. Uncalled for.

    The OP literally introduced this argument when he/she tells everyone who agrees with the opposing argument that they are bad. Not at all uncalled for.

    Stay shaming is always uncalled for.

    I do not care, why, or what for. It is unneeded.
    well alright forgive and forget, because regardless, RBD is effective in doing its purpose.
  • KingTolapsium
    5491 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    owltro wrote: »
    SYM-Duck wrote: »
    > complains about deviation being for bads

    > has 1.5 KD @ .2 KPM in BF4
    So true. Love your vids by the way.
    SYM-Duck wrote: »
    > complains about deviation being for bads

    > has 1.5 KD @ .2 KPM in BF4

    Stop the stat shaming s***. Worst part about discussing anything with you stat trolls at symthic.

    You prove nothing other than your own ability to dig through someone's stuff, to underwrite their comments. Uncalled for.

    The OP literally introduced this argument when he/she tells everyone who agrees with the opposing argument that they are bad. Not at all uncalled for.

    Stay shaming is always uncalled for.

    I do not care, why, or what for. It is unneeded.
    well alright forgive and forget, because regardless, RBD is effective in doing its purpose.

    I agree, but I'm going to continue to speak up against stay shaming, it is inherently negative and non-productive.
  • Lordmang4
    2063 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Medal of Honor Warfighter Member
    I'm a bad FPS gamer but that's not the reason why I'm OK with random deviation.
    -
    I like having a little "luck" introduced into my gameplay (random events, random bullet deviation, etc.). These random elements make a game more unpredictable and fun.
    -
    It means that I might actually outshoot and outaim that MLG leet FPS gamer that I should happen to meet one on one out on the Battlefield.
  • BetaFief
    655 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    edited July 2016
    owltro wrote: »
    HEAVY RECOIL
    Too learnable, even with randomness, will always follow one direction. Too heavy would make guns unreliable at all ranges.
    ....
    SWAY
    Makes it even more random, except without making guns ineffective outside their effective range.
    Also I don't care if I bump your thread with my countless oncoming comments because this'll get closed anyways.



    heavier recoil should be able to be compensated with weapon bracing (at least for LMG's). Which means you're not going to be like the Heavy from Team fortress or Rambo or whatever.

    Heavier recoil can make it hard to "double tap" a semi-auto, meaning players will be more likely to either waste ammo or slow down the time between shots, allowing for bolt actions to be at less of a disadvantage (which could mean the opportunity to have faction-restricted weapons without a great deal of imbalance).

    damage and bullet drop should primarily effect SMG's and pistols. (shotguns too).

    Weapon Sway is alright in my opinion, it can allow for the ADS to be more useful, while also eliminating some of the issues with random spread.
  • TheRealPCNoob
    82 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield Member
    edited July 2016
    owltro wrote: »
    SYM-Duck wrote: »
    > complains about deviation being for bads

    > has 1.5 KD @ .2 KPM in BF4
    So true. Love your vids by the way.
    SYM-Duck wrote: »
    > complains about deviation being for bads

    > has 1.5 KD @ .2 KPM in BF4

    Stop the stat shaming s***. Worst part about discussing anything with you stat trolls at symthic.

    You prove nothing other than your own ability to dig through someone's stuff, to underwrite their comments. Uncalled for.

    The OP literally introduced this argument when he/she tells everyone who agrees with the opposing argument that they are bad. Not at all uncalled for.

    Stay shaming is always uncalled for.

    I do not care, why, or what for. It is unneeded.
    well alright forgive and forget, because regardless, RBD is effective in doing its purpose.

    I agree, but I'm going to continue to speak up against stay shaming, it is inherently negative and non-productive.
    True.

    Anyway, @S1ngular1ty, I will explain with specific examples why your solution fails when compared to spread:

    RECOIL

    Recoil would not be an effective solution. If LMGs (which are supposed to be good at medium range) had a great amount of recoil, it would be hard for them to be the most effective in medium range, but rather, they would be the most effective in close range as recoil does not affect one's shots as much there.

    A recoil-based solution would only work for SMGs, as recoil control is easier in their effective range than not in their effective range. On LMGs, the SIPS is actually a decrease, allowing them to be more effective at longer ranges than in close ranges where the first 6 rounds of a burst really matter, as it is likely that if you miss these first shots that you will be dead. LMGs are not as effective in close range as a result of how great their spread values are at the beginning of a burst, whereas missing your first few shots does not matter as much at medium range. Semi-automatic rifles and bolt-action rifles are balanced to be the most effective in their particular ranges through different means, which I will explain if necessary.

    WEAPON SWAY

    It would be a balancing factor for SMGs, but not LMGs once again.

    BULLET DROP AND BULLET DRAG

    Enhanced bullet drop and bullet drag would work once again as a balancing factor for SMGs, but not LMGs. Enhanced bullet drop and bullet drag favor close quarters situations, where they does not affect the hitrate at all. This would not be balanced because SMGs are supposed to most effective at close range, while LMGs are supposed to be most effective at medium range. A system with enhanced bullet drop and bullet drag favors close range for every weapon, not just SMGs, which is not what we want.

    ENHANCED DAMAGE DROP-OFF

    This is a potential balancing factor, as it can be adjusted for range unlike bullet drop, bullet drag, weapon sway, and recoil, which is why I believe these solutions would be invalid. I cannot say why this would not objectively work, but there was definitely some resistance in Hardline's community to the damage drop-offs on some SMGs. Personally, I do not agree with making a weapon require 4 shots as close range and then 10 shots at 50m.

    However, spread is able to balance both SMGs and LMGs, making SMGs more effective in close quarters, and LMGs more effective at medium range. Spread allows for hits on target at all ranges because of how accurate the first shot is, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they are really effective at those ranges.
  • KingTolapsium
    5491 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Why should these mechanics be "master-able"?

    Why should you get a huge range ttk advantage?
  • ChickNFoot
    1627 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Too much recoil will just make it random and will cause burst fireing or tapfiring which random bullet deviation promotes the same thing.

    Too much drop off and it defies logic. Main,grips of BFH's SMGs. Why does X gun have 30 damage at 10 meters but does 10 dmg at 15? That is no way consestant or logical for a good system.

    BF1 is a casual shooter (Arma... lol) and the system in place is good enough and simple enough for casual players but complex enough with a skill gap for gold players.

    Arma is a mil sim type game and so in return it has extreme recoil and a realistic damage model.
    Why people compare 2 different games like that is beyond me.
    owltro wrote: »
    SYM-Duck wrote: »
    > complains about deviation being for bads

    > has 1.5 KD @ .2 KPM in BF4

    Stop the stat shaming s***. Worst part about discussing anything with you stat trolls at symthic.

    You prove nothing other than your own ability to dig through someone's stuff, to underwrite their comments. Uncalled for.
    tolapsium let's be honest, s1ng deserves this...
    also this guys name is SYM-Duck and that's marbleduck's username in bf1... Marbleduck confirmed? :anguished:

    No, we can go around making points in other fashions, I am against stat shaming.

    Maybe it is? I didn't like duck about a year ago, but he has proven to be a very intelligent bf player, he has a great way of explaining mechanics.

    Yes that is marble duck, talked a bit on twitter.
  • ChickNFoot
    1627 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    That fact that people compare Apples (BF) to Oranges (Arma) is beyond me.
  • KingTolapsium
    5491 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    ChickNFoot wrote: »
    Too much recoil will just make it random and will cause burst fireing or tapfiring which random bullet deviation promotes the same thing.

    Too much drop off and it defies logic. Main,grips of BFH's SMGs. Why does X gun have 30 damage at 10 meters but does 10 dmg at 15? That is no way consestant or logical for a good system.

    BF1 is a casual shooter (Arma... lol) and the system in place is good enough and simple enough for casual players but complex enough with a skill gap for gold players.

    Arma is a mil sim type game and so in return it has extreme recoil and a realistic damage model.
    Why people compare 2 different games like that is beyond me.
    owltro wrote: »
    SYM-Duck wrote: »
    > complains about deviation being for bads

    > has 1.5 KD @ .2 KPM in BF4

    Stop the stat shaming s***. Worst part about discussing anything with you stat trolls at symthic.

    You prove nothing other than your own ability to dig through someone's stuff, to underwrite their comments. Uncalled for.
    tolapsium let's be honest, s1ng deserves this...
    also this guys name is SYM-Duck and that's marbleduck's username in bf1... Marbleduck confirmed? :anguished:

    No, we can go around making points in other fashions, I am against stat shaming.

    Maybe it is? I didn't like duck about a year ago, but he has proven to be a very intelligent bf player, he has a great way of explaining mechanics.

    Yes that is marble duck, talked a bit on twitter.

    Smart cookie, it's been enjoyable having him in the discussion.
  • KDNS
    450 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Member
    Lordmang4 wrote: »
    I'm a bad FPS gamer but that's not the reason why I'm OK with random deviation.
    -
    I like having a little "luck" introduced into my gameplay (random events, random bullet deviation, etc.). These random elements make a game more unpredictable and fun.
    -
    It means that I might actually outshoot and outaim that MLG leet FPS gamer that I should happen to meet one on one out on the Battlefield.

    So basically, you like it for the same reason you like aim assist - it gives you a chance to win a gunfight even if you didn't earn it through hard work and learning to actually aim and such.... It massages your weak ego and rewards your laziness.

  • onkruid26
    590 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    KDNS wrote: »
    Lordmang4 wrote: »
    I'm a bad FPS gamer but that's not the reason why I'm OK with random deviation.
    -
    I like having a little "luck" introduced into my gameplay (random events, random bullet deviation, etc.). These random elements make a game more unpredictable and fun.
    -
    It means that I might actually outshoot and outaim that MLG leet FPS gamer that I should happen to meet one on one out on the Battlefield.

    So basically, you like it for the same reason you like aim assist - it gives you a chance to win a gunfight even if you didn't earn it through hard work and learning to actually aim and such.... It massages your weak ego and rewards your laziness.

    One could also say that he does not want to handle a video game as a second job and spend hours on getting good at it.
  • KingTolapsium
    5491 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited July 2016
    Sno0bs wrote: »
    KDNS wrote: »
    Lordmang4 wrote: »
    I'm a bad FPS gamer but that's not the reason why I'm OK with random deviation.
    -
    I like having a little "luck" introduced into my gameplay (random events, random bullet deviation, etc.). These random elements make a game more unpredictable and fun.
    -
    It means that I might actually outshoot and outaim that MLG leet FPS gamer that I should happen to meet one on one out on the Battlefield.

    So basically, you like it for the same reason you like aim assist - it gives you a chance to win a gunfight even if you didn't earn it through hard work and learning to actually aim and such.... It massages your weak ego and rewards your laziness.

    One could also say that he does not want to handle a video game as a second job and spend hours on getting good at it.

    :) agreed
  • KDNS
    450 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Member
    Sno0bs wrote: »
    KDNS wrote: »
    Lordmang4 wrote: »
    I'm a bad FPS gamer but that's not the reason why I'm OK with random deviation.
    -
    I like having a little "luck" introduced into my gameplay (random events, random bullet deviation, etc.). These random elements make a game more unpredictable and fun.
    -
    It means that I might actually outshoot and outaim that MLG leet FPS gamer that I should happen to meet one on one out on the Battlefield.

    So basically, you like it for the same reason you like aim assist - it gives you a chance to win a gunfight even if you didn't earn it through hard work and learning to actually aim and such.... It massages your weak ego and rewards your laziness.

    One could also say that he does not want to handle a video game as a second job and spend hours on getting good at it.

    "Also"? That's exactly what I said. Then I went on to point out that he does not want to git gud, but he does want the rewards associated with being gud. He wants the rewards without the work.
  • KingTolapsium
    5491 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    KDNS wrote: »
    Sno0bs wrote: »
    KDNS wrote: »
    Lordmang4 wrote: »
    I'm a bad FPS gamer but that's not the reason why I'm OK with random deviation.
    -
    I like having a little "luck" introduced into my gameplay (random events, random bullet deviation, etc.). These random elements make a game more unpredictable and fun.
    -
    It means that I might actually outshoot and outaim that MLG leet FPS gamer that I should happen to meet one on one out on the Battlefield.

    So basically, you like it for the same reason you like aim assist - it gives you a chance to win a gunfight even if you didn't earn it through hard work and learning to actually aim and such.... It massages your weak ego and rewards your laziness.

    One could also say that he does not want to handle a video game as a second job and spend hours on getting good at it.

    "Also"? That's exactly what I said. Then I went on to point out that he does not want to git gud, but he does want the rewards associated with being gud. He wants the rewards without the work.

    Games are not work. You don't pay someone to work for them.
  • KDNS
    450 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Member
    What are you talking about?

    The "work" is the effort involved in getting gud.
    The "reward" is winning gunfights.
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