Random Deviation is for Bads

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Comments

  • onkruid26
    590 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Kind off a measly reward for the amount effort, can still win most gunfights without getting gud.
  • owltro
    3356 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    KDNS wrote: »
    What are you talking about?

    The "work" is the effort involved in getting gud.
    The "reward" is winning gunfights.
    The work is taking the 2min to learn how to shoot well with RBD and the new spread mechanics.
    Games however are not work. They're leisure activites. (Unless you play for pay.)
  • KDNS
    450 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Member
    Sno0bs wrote: »
    Kind off a measly reward for the amount effort, can still win most gunfights without getting gud.

    Well that was his point. Aim assist and random deviation, allow him to win gunfights without getting gud.



  • owltro
    3356 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    KDNS wrote: »
    Sno0bs wrote: »
    Kind off a measly reward for the amount effort, can still win most gunfights without getting gud.

    Well that was his point. Aim assist and random deviation, allow him to win gunfights without getting gud.
    He stated it pretty wrong. In no way does RBD help people. Its purpose is to balance every weapon to be effective only to their specific ranges.
  • S1ngular1ty
    801 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Member
    edited July 2016
    SYM-Duck wrote: »
    > complains about deviation being for bads

    > has 1.5 KD @ .2 KPM in BF4
    So true. Love your vids by the way.
    SYM-Duck wrote: »
    > complains about deviation being for bads

    > has 1.5 KD @ .2 KPM in BF4

    Stop the stat shaming s***. Worst part about discussing anything with you stat trolls at symthic.

    You prove nothing other than your own ability to dig through someone's stuff, to underwrite their comments. Uncalled for.

    The OP literally introduced this argument when he/she tells everyone who agrees with the opposing argument that they are bad. Not at all uncalled for.

    Stay shaming is always uncalled for.

    I do not care, why, or what for. It is unneeded.
    owltro wrote: »
    KDNS wrote: »
    What are you talking about?

    The "work" is the effort involved in getting gud.
    The "reward" is winning gunfights.
    The work is taking the 2min to learn how to shoot well with RBD and the new spread mechanics.
    Games however are not work. They're leisure activites. (Unless you play for pay.)


    You can't learn random. And lol at you bringing up my stats again. You are so pathetic. What's wrong, can't argue your position without stooping to the level of a 10 year old?
    .
    Random deviation is a casual mechanic added to reduce the skill gap so bad players have a chance against everyone else.
    .
    This can be done better using other mechanics.
  • Lordmang4
    2063 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Medal of Honor Warfighter Member
    I like the direction DICE is taking with BF games.
  • Turban_Legend80
    4752 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Member
    owltro wrote: »
    SYM-Duck wrote: »
    > complains about deviation being for bads

    > has 1.5 KD @ .2 KPM in BF4

    Stop the stat shaming s***. Worst part about discussing anything with you stat trolls at symthic.

    You prove nothing other than your own ability to dig through someone's stuff, to underwrite their comments. Uncalled for.
    tolapsium let's be honest, s1ng deserves this...
    also this guys name is SYM-Duck and that's marbleduck's username in bf1... Marbleduck confirmed? :anguished:

    No, we can go around making points in other fashions, I am against stat shaming.

    Maybe it is? I didn't like duck about a year ago, but he has proven to be a very intelligent bf player, he has a great way of explaining mechanics.

    Stats help paint a picture of how a player has formed his views.
    If a player is asking for air vehicles to be nerfed (and that players stats show he has no time in air vehicles, low squad score, bad accuracy and a low k/d) it would be quite clear he has made no attempt to properly combat what he is asking to be nerfed, and just wants changes to something that kills him a lot.

    In this thread the OP is saying people who like random deviation are usually bad at the game.
    With the help of the guy that posted OP's stats, we can now all conclude that "some people who dont like deviation are also bad at the game".

  • onkruid26
    590 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    SYM-Duck wrote: »
    > complains about deviation being for bads

    > has 1.5 KD @ .2 KPM in BF4
    So true. Love your vids by the way.
    SYM-Duck wrote: »
    > complains about deviation being for bads

    > has 1.5 KD @ .2 KPM in BF4

    Stop the stat shaming s***. Worst part about discussing anything with you stat trolls at symthic.

    You prove nothing other than your own ability to dig through someone's stuff, to underwrite their comments. Uncalled for.

    The OP literally introduced this argument when he/she tells everyone who agrees with the opposing argument that they are bad. Not at all uncalled for.

    Stay shaming is always uncalled for.

    I do not care, why, or what for. It is unneeded.
    owltro wrote: »
    KDNS wrote: »
    What are you talking about?

    The "work" is the effort involved in getting gud.
    The "reward" is winning gunfights.
    The work is taking the 2min to learn how to shoot well with RBD and the new spread mechanics.
    Games however are not work. They're leisure activites. (Unless you play for pay.)


    You can't learn random. - true but you can use different ways of fire to be still as accurate as the system allows you to if you put the effort in, what kind off ways has been said multiple times over atleast 2 threads.
    .
    Random deviation is a casual mechanic added to reduce the skill gap so bad players have a chance against everyone else. - A casual mechamic for a casual non competitivly game that does not want skill full players to dominate. Not a bad thing.
    .
    This can be done better using other mechanics - Maby but this is what we got now. So adapt and overcome.

  • Squad_Cohesion
    910 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Random deviation just promotes casualification. It should be replaced by a skill based recoil system and added sway. We already have bullet drop, drag, and damage drop off.

    The sway should be completely random.
  • TwinSp1re
    20 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Medal of Honor Warfighter Member
    IMO opinion part of weapon (and to a large extend Class) balance is effective engagement ranges. Random Deviation (cones of fire) is imo the simplest most practical method, though it is sort of like a hammer (like any simple method) where balance can be somewhat tricky if there are too many weapons since variation can be limited.

    I believe in a gameplay sense weapons should have pros and cons and that at a certain point those should be a hard limit aka not completely corrected by some mechanic or skill.

    If you use sliding damage and bullet drop you could effectively unload a mag and get a kill well outside of an SMG intended engagement range. Throw in recoil same thing, limitations can be negated.

    At the end of the day, my opinion is I like having hard weapon limitations, when tied to Classes it makes the class decision a larger part of the "skill" as anything else.

    In BF3/4, I found playing conquest large the default kit to play was engie. Why? Because the carbine was almost as good as the assault rifle (due to too similar random cones and typical engagement distance) AND I had anti-armor capabilities, blow up wall abilities etc. BF1 is way different because the class weapons ARE drastically different.

    I will fully admit I am more a tactics type player, while I am decent with aim/fire gameplay, my strength usually comes from tactics/strategy of knowing the maps and typical troop movements behavior than anything else. Thus random deviation fits my playstyle more.
  • KingTolapsium
    5491 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    owltro wrote: »
    SYM-Duck wrote: »
    > complains about deviation being for bads

    > has 1.5 KD @ .2 KPM in BF4

    Stop the stat shaming s***. Worst part about discussing anything with you stat trolls at symthic.

    You prove nothing other than your own ability to dig through someone's stuff, to underwrite their comments. Uncalled for.
    tolapsium let's be honest, s1ng deserves this...
    also this guys name is SYM-Duck and that's marbleduck's username in bf1... Marbleduck confirmed? :anguished:

    No, we can go around making points in other fashions, I am against stat shaming.

    Maybe it is? I didn't like duck about a year ago, but he has proven to be a very intelligent bf player, he has a great way of explaining mechanics.

    Stats help paint a picture of how a player has formed his views.
    If a player is asking for air vehicles to be nerfed (and that players stats show he has no time in air vehicles, low squad score, bad accuracy and a low k/d) it would be quite clear he has made no attempt to properly combat what he is asking to be nerfed, and just wants changes to something that kills him a lot.

    In this thread the OP is saying people who like random deviation are usually bad at the game.
    With the help of the guy that posted OP's stats, we can now all conclude that "some people who dont like deviation are also bad at the game".

    States shaming is unnecessary negativity.

    If you can't prove your point without it, your point isn't worth proving.

    Write as much as you want, not going to change my mind. Slander is unneeded.
  • snakeheadinvade
    2659 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Member
    edited July 2016
    I find people who like random deviation are usually bad at the game. It only lowers the skill gap because it penalizes people who could actually somewhat counter a recoil based system with skill from good hand-eye coordination. It makes their shots randomly miss their targets for no reason.
    .
    You can do everything random deviation does with recoil, sway, bullet drop, damage drop off, and bullet drag, but better.
    .
    Proper gun mechanics in a modern FPS shown below (recoil only):

    begin at 57 seconds in
    .

    begin at 1:04

    the deviation you talk about in bf1 isnt actually that bad at all as the first bullet will always hit.
    recoil is probably the least skillful thing to compensate for. i dont see how players think gradually pulling odwn on a mouse is a good example of "skill"
    and the damage drop off idea has been done in bf hardline. go play with a hardline smg they feel very inconsistent as just a few steps can make your gun go from its max damage down to its minimum damage.
    ____________________________________________________________
    the way spread works in bf1 is by a sips fsm (spread increase per shot first shot multiplier)
    sips fsm was added to REMOVE the meta of smaller bursts are better which made the aek effective out side of its intended range.
    ____________________________________________________________
    ill give an example so with bf1s mechanics the first shot would be at .3 base spread then the second shot will be at .54 then the 3rd shot will be at .57 then the 4th shot will be at .60
    the simple counter to bullet deviation is to fire in single shot at a reasonable pace thus extending the effective range of your pdw out side of its intended range. if bf1 just simply had massive damage drop off the as said before it would make the game extremely inconsistent and would not allow for skilled players to use their weapons outside of the intended range of that weapon.
    ____________________________________________________________
    bf1's shooting style is very similar to that of cs:go's meaning you better make your first shot a head shot if you want decent damage output which also rewards the player that takes more time to line up his shots.
    ____________________________________________________________
    this info is from 2 of marble ducks videos
  • KingTolapsium
    5491 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Lol, the recoil compensation "skill" isn't very hard on pc. (I'm console player that can easy compensate recoil on pc, bc2), I've played a solid hour?

    On console, it's a bit different, it moves your aiming point down to an "offbalanced" few degrees lower than center stick. Incredibly hard to compensate, aim, and address multiple enemies. Close to 1500hrs on bf console, and recoil compensation is still a bit tricky.

    Apples and Oranges.

  • MrDownvote
    65 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited July 2016
    Lordmang4 wrote: »
    I like the direction DICE is taking with BF games.

    Dumbing down Bf for COD players, thats really sad
  • Magic_Pepee
    378 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Member
    SYM-Duck wrote: »
    > complains about deviation being for bads

    > has 1.5 KD @ .2 KPM in BF4

    i wouldn't go around statbashing people when your stats aren't that good either
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