New Stat Ratio: Kills + Revives / Deaths + Revives

Comments

  • Contra87
    698 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    I only care about my stats, and playing at or above my averages, so I don't want them to go anywhere. However, I wouldn't care if I couldn't see anybody else's. I would rather see how everyone performs against their stats, than just see them at the end of round. I'd rather see that a guy had five more kills, three less deaths and 200 spm (or whatever) more than what he usually gets. I don't care what the numbers are, just let me see that you're trying. That's really all I've come to want out of random teammates.
  • canon35mm
    236 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    Contra87 wrote: »
    I only care about my stats, and playing at or above my averages, so I don't want them to go anywhere. However, I wouldn't care if I couldn't see anybody else's. I would rather see how everyone performs against their stats, than just see them at the end of round. I'd rather see that a guy had five more kills, three less deaths and 200 spm (or whatever) more than what he usually gets. I don't care what the numbers are, just let me see that you're trying. That's really all I've come to want out of random teammates.

    Yeah that would be cool. I want to know if that guy who just had 60 revives that round just made his personal best or if it isn't what is his best.

    I think it would be cool to pick what you see. I would like to see SPM over KD so let me look at that and if someone else wants to see something else let them.
  • Astr0damus
    2904 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    canon35mm wrote: »
    Contra87 wrote: »
    I only care about my stats, and playing at or above my averages, so I don't want them to go anywhere. However, I wouldn't care if I couldn't see anybody else's. I would rather see how everyone performs against their stats, than just see them at the end of round. I'd rather see that a guy had five more kills, three less deaths and 200 spm (or whatever) more than what he usually gets. I don't care what the numbers are, just let me see that you're trying. That's really all I've come to want out of random teammates.

    Yeah that would be cool. I want to know if that guy who just had 60 revives that round just made his personal best or if it isn't what is his best.

    I think it would be cool to pick what you see. I would like to see SPM over KD so let me look at that and if someone else wants to see something else let them.

    What I find strange is that screen right after the round ends which shows the overall score (1000-975 or whatever) and then it shows Flags captured and Squad Spawns...
    Squad Spawns?!? I know it is a useful stat (for something) but it's almost like DICE is inferring that there is a direct correlation to whether you won or lost based on squad spawns. (is there?)
    Seems like such a strange stat to show on that screen. Why not show number of revives for each team or something useful like that?
  • Loqtrall
    12459 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited November 2017
    boutneus wrote: »
    Just play the game bro...
    This whole post is a solution to a problem created in your own mind just enjoy the game.
    Let it go, let it go....

    ^^^^^^^^
    Astr0damus wrote: »
    What I have found on this board is that people DO NOT WANT you to know how many times they have been revived, and they DO NOT WANT others to know if they use Aim Assist/Auto Rotation.

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    Astr0damus wrote: »
    This information already exists. All I'm saying is display it (K+R/D+R), either on the statistics websites (battlefieldtracker.com or BF1stats.com) or else, show on the end of round scoreboard the number of revives the person received in parenthesis. Example: 30-10 (20)

    In my opinion it would be a nice compromise from the group (not me) that suggests removing K/D altogether, and the group that says leave K/D alone.

    Trust me, I have never been one to agree with Marxist on these boards - but what he said is right. The stats you're talking about adding to the scoreboard hold absolutely nothing of value for classes that aren't Medic and people playing those classes - aside from showing how many of their deaths were or were not avoided because of being revived.

    I say "may or may not have been avoided because of being revived" because your argument conveniently left out instances where Medics revive people in lines of fire only for them to die a split second later, which happens to me more times than I can recall. The Medic still gets a revive and the player was still technically revived, but the person revived did not have their death taken away, they just died again.

    There's no logic in only adding stats revolving around revives to the scoreboard when there are four classes and only one can revive. Those stats hold absolutely no bearing on the scoreboard for anybody that's not playing Medic.

    It also doesn't seem like a good compromise between those who want KD removed from a scoreboard and those who want it to stay, because it's not going to have the effect the OP in that thread was arguing that removing KD from the scoreboard would result in when he initially posted that thread.

    I'd be down for adding things like objectives capped/armed/defused, defending kills, SPM, assists, etc - but a stat for seeing how many revives seems pointless to anybody that doesn't play medic or could care less about medics at all.

    And that's coming from me, a Medic main.

    Stats on the scoreboard thus far are stats that pertain to EVERYONE'S performance regardless of the class they're playing.

    If we're getting down to the brass tacks of this topic, arguing about what's shown or not shown on the scoreboard is pointless. If anything it should show base stats pertaining to the game mode you're playing and that's it.

    We're talking about a feature that I'm willing to bet cold hard cash many people don't even look at until the end of match, and even then for most players it's just a glance to see how many kills they got, how many deaths they got, what their score was, and what their place was on the team.

    I've actually played with friends before who ask me how to open up the scoreboard after I reference how many kills I've gotten or what place I'm in on the team, to which they respond, "You can view the scoreboard in-game?" (because on consoles you have to hold down the start/menu button for a prolonged period of time, which isn't the norm in shooters).

    IMO the scoreboard is fine as it is, and is roughly the same as it has been in this franchise for many, many years.

    Just saying - you seem very intense when it comes to discussing stats on this forum despite claiming that stats mean nothing to you multiple times throughout your participation here.

    On top of that, mentioning scoreboards should showing how many times you've been revived specifically and that killcams should display whether or not the player uses Aim Assist (even though you did so in an OT manner) - it appears you have deep interest in seemingly "exposing" that players aren't as good as the scoreboard makes out or, in the case of displaying AA in the killcam, showing for whatever reasons that players decided to use a default controller option.

    I mean really - there's absolutely no other reason to bring up adding whether or not people use AA to killcams unless you literally JUST want to look down on other players for using AA, and make additional excuses as to why you died in-game.

    There's literally no other reason.
  • x_Undaunted_x
    3766 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Loqtrall wrote: »
    I mean really - there's absolutely no other reason to bring up adding whether or not people use AA to killcams unless you literally JUST want to look down on other players for using AA, and make additional excuses as to why you died in-game.

    There's literally no other reason.

    QFT
  • ProLegion_exor
    3541 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Adding a stat to the scoreboard wich only can be used by one class is not the way to go. It would screw the KPM stat totally wich is an really usefull one. And make great Medics K/D unfairly good. It would also made people doing even more stupid revives then they do and people camping to an extreme just to raise K/D by hiding an reviving in chokepoints. At the end it would make K/D and KPM useless..
  • full951
    2468 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited November 2017
    you can't include giving revives, that's a class specific stat.

    I belive the change you're looking for is not forgiving revives in the kd calculation
  • Astr0damus
    2904 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    full951 wrote: »
    you can't include giving revives, that's a class specific stat.

    I belive the change you're looking for is not forgiving revives in the kd calculation

    I get that it is a class-specific stat as far as giving revives--this is important because the Medic is the only class that can Kill as well as "unKill" if you will. This contribution is so valuable that it needs to be captured in the end of round scoreboard.
    An Assault has way more lethal toys to kill with--and Support has access to unlimited lethal ammunition--Scouts have a wall hack and can kill from a half-mile away, but the Medic has to combine killing and reviving teammates to be just as effective.
    For instance, the other three classes get 30 kills in a match--and so can a Medic, but it is much harder (typically) so the Medic can kill 15 and revive 15 and be equal to what the Assault has done -- ticket-wise.
    But this is not captured in the end of round stats that the Medic was also just as valuable.

    I'm not proposing this simply because all I play is Medic--I have approximately equal time spent between Medic, Assault and Support.

    So if we are just looking at K+R portion of the ratio, this does not affect the Assault because he gets his 30, 50, or even 70 kills in a Conquest match-- but it helps the medic who is spending lots of time undoing the damage the enemy has done. This should be captured somewhere. A Medic that goes 10-20 but did 20 Revives (and was revived none) should show 30-20, this immediately lets the rest of the team know whether they were contributing or not. If the same Medic equips a Rifle Grenade instead of a Syringe and still goes 10-20 then it doesn't change. We can see he didn't hold his own, unless he was passing out crates like mad--then this is captured in the score and he will be in the top 10.

    But as I said---even if this was not on the scoreboard, or displayed on one of the stats websites, at least we could put the number of times someone was revived in parenthesis next to their Kills and Deaths on the scoreboard.

    If you recall the guy who went 0-0 and was MVP on that screenshot in the other thread, wouldn't it have been nice to see if he was revived 10 times or 50 times?
    It's just more information.
  • x_Undaunted_x
    3766 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Astr0damus wrote: »
    If you recall the guy who went 0-0 and was MVP on that screenshot in the other thread, wouldn't it have been nice to see if he was revived 10 times or 50 times?
    It's just more information.

    Not really because most people don't care. At the end of a round, most people look at their own stat and their position on the scoreboard then move on. Why does it matter so much to you how someone else plays their game?
  • Loqtrall
    12459 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited November 2017
    Astr0damus wrote: »
    full951 wrote: »
    you can't include giving revives, that's a class specific stat.

    I belive the change you're looking for is not forgiving revives in the kd calculation

    I get that it is a class-specific stat as far as giving revives--this is important because the Medic is the only class that can Kill as well as "unKill" if you will. This contribution is so valuable that it needs to be captured in the end of round scoreboard.
    An Assault has way more lethal toys to kill with--and Support has access to unlimited lethal ammunition--Scouts have a wall hack and can kill from a half-mile away, but the Medic has to combine killing and reviving teammates to be just as effective.
    For instance, the other three classes get 30 kills in a match--and so can a Medic, but it is much harder (typically) so the Medic can kill 15 and revive 15 and be equal to what the Assault has done -- ticket-wise.
    But this is not captured in the end of round stats that the Medic was also just as valuable.

    I'm not proposing this simply because all I play is Medic--I have approximately equal time spent between Medic, Assault and Support.

    So if we are just looking at K+R portion of the ratio, this does not affect the Assault because he gets his 30, 50, or even 70 kills in a Conquest match-- but it helps the medic who is spending lots of time undoing the damage the enemy has done. This should be captured somewhere. A Medic that goes 10-20 but did 20 Revives (and was revived none) should show 30-20, this immediately lets the rest of the team know whether they were contributing or not. If the same Medic equips a Rifle Grenade instead of a Syringe and still goes 10-20 then it doesn't change. We can see he didn't hold his own, unless he was passing out crates like mad--then this is captured in the score and he will be in the top 10.

    But as I said---even if this was not on the scoreboard, or displayed on one of the stats websites, at least we could put the number of times someone was revived in parenthesis next to their Kills and Deaths on the scoreboard.

    If you recall the guy who went 0-0 and was MVP on that screenshot in the other thread, wouldn't it have been nice to see if he was revived 10 times or 50 times?
    It's just more information.

    Lmao that's such a BS excuse.

    I main Medic and it's not that much harder to be effective than other classes.

    You conveniently left out the part where medics can also heal people, are getting a Specialization that allows passive proximity healing in a 7m radius, and they have access to full auto large mag weapons.

    They have substantially more killing potential in PTFO situations than Scouts, and account for the second highest amount of kills across the player base out of all 4 classes.

    That's on top of it being the only class aside from Cavalry that has the ability to keep themselves alive when bested by an enemy mid-engagement without a full retreat or dumb luck.

    I main Medic and still drop over 20-30 kills each match and can top 5 a CQL scoreboard without even reviving or healing everyone I can.

    You make this change to the scoreboard and players like me would basically AUTO top scoreboards with upward of 50 "kills" every game, even if someone else LEGITIMATELY got 45 kills.

    That system is so flawed and so catering solely to POOR medics its ridiculous.

    It's not simply "just more information". In the way you're insistng it be implemented, it's additional statistics that would actually skew in-game kdr stats in a way that's not only artificial but also inconsistent and solely pandering to medics when there are 3 other main classes, on top of vehicle classes and cavalry.

    Like I said, what if someone is revived and then immediately killed?

    Should that revive still count for the medic despite it resulting in nothing? Or should the player who was revived have that revive shown next to his desths even though it was completely pointless?

    Then there's instances where people try to skip revives, whether it be to change classes or Spawn in a vehicle or whatever, and are picked up by a nearby medic anyway.

    Like your arguments in that other KD thread, you're ignoring several in-game instances and parameters that would make your suggested changes very inconsistent in the information they would present.

    Kills, deaths, score? Those are all base stats that are not inconsistent in the ways they're represented.

    You perform an action? You gain score

    You shoot someone until they fall to the ground and their name pops up on your screen? You gain a kill.

    You succumb to damage to the point you die and have to respawn? You gain a death.

    (can literally FEEL you thinking about responding with "but revives take deaths away so they're not an accurately represented Stat!" before even posting this comment)

    It's clear cut.

    It's not a system where it shows a guy going 52-18 because he got 30 revives, because reviving people in this game is not an equal action to killing in terms of skill, circumstance, or input required.

    You're essentially saying that a Medic running up to 3 people who just got bombed by a plane and reviving them should hold as much worth in the Kill stat on the scoreboard as an assault player breaching an enemy obj and getting a triple kill with his actual weapon, aiming, and firing of rounds.

    That's ridiculous.

    One of those instances is obviously much more intense and requires significantly more skill and positioning than the other. On what planet should they both reflect on your kill Stat on the scoreboard equally?
  • Astr0damus
    2904 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Loqtrall wrote: »

    You're essentially saying that a Medic running up to 3 people who just got bombed by a plane and reviving them should hold as much worth in the Kill stat on the scoreboard as an assault player breaching an enemy obj and getting a triple kill with his actual weapon, aiming, and firing of rounds.

    You are misunderstanding something.
    K+R/D+R would not show on the scoreboard, nor would it change any in-game play or statistic. It would not skew K/D as you said.. I'm not sure why you would think that. This would be a separate stat from K/D and one of hundreds that are listed on the sites that receive statistical data from DICE (BF1Stats, Battlefieldtracker, etc.. I only know of those two but there are probably others).

    The other suggestion was that if this were not possible, then on the scoreboard it would be helpful to see the number of times a person was revived in parenthesis NEXT TO their kills and deaths (not adjusting K/D or anything like that)
    Simply:
    Kills 30 -- Deaths 10 -- Revs (20)
    Loqtrall wrote: »
    On what planet should they both reflect on your kill Stat on the scoreboard equally?

    I guess planet Mars, because I never suggested that.

    Remember two separate things suggested: K+R/D+R on the stat sites --- Revives in parenthesis displayed on the scoreboard (but not affecting the placement of the player up or down on the scoreboard -- since K/D doesn't affect up or down on the scoreboard, only score does).

    Try to take all your emotion out of it and stop being so nasty just for the sake of being nasty.
    Try to be like Spock and then you can think more logically and evaluate an idea for what it is rather than just "I don't like him, so I cannot like this idea either."
    It would be better if you just said "Sure whatever, if you would like to see that stat on a website, more power to you, but I find it irrelevant."
  • B0ng0_Banger
    1161 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    they should just remove revive cancels a death, like it was it bc2. but then you get people moaning when they get revived instead of the other way round.
  • Astr0damus
    2904 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    they should just remove revive cancels a death, like it was it bc2. but then you get people moaning when they get revived instead of the other way round.

    Yes but a good compromise is simply placing the revives in parenthesis rather than adding it into the K/D.

  • M16a3_is_Haram
    66 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    People get revived often? News to me, I'm lucky if it happens twice a game.
  • Astr0damus
    2904 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    People get revived often? News to me, I'm lucky if it happens twice a game.

    Right! And this is the point of that statistic.
    If you run with randoms and you don't get revived a lot, then your death total will pretty much stay the same as it is for your K/D.
    But for those that run with Medic trains (nothing wrong with that) then with K+R/D+R your Deaths would jump way up--but so too would your K's (because revives given would be added to Kills), having said that.. if you run as Assault with a group of medics, your K would stay put and your D's would increase.
  • Loqtrall
    12459 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited November 2017
    Astr0damus wrote: »
    Loqtrall wrote: »

    You're essentially saying that a Medic running up to 3 people who just got bombed by a plane and reviving them should hold as much worth in the Kill stat on the scoreboard as an assault player breaching an enemy obj and getting a triple kill with his actual weapon, aiming, and firing of rounds.

    You are misunderstanding something.
    K+R/D+R would not show on the scoreboard, nor would it change any in-game play or statistic. It would not skew K/D as you said.. I'm not sure why you would think that. This would be a separate stat from K/D and one of hundreds that are listed on the sites that receive statistical data from DICE (BF1Stats, Battlefieldtracker, etc.. I only know of those two but there are probably others).

    The other suggestion was that if this were not possible, then on the scoreboard it would be helpful to see the number of times a person was revived in parenthesis NEXT TO their kills and deaths (not adjusting K/D or anything like that)
    Simply:
    Kills 30 -- Deaths 10 -- Revs (20)
    Loqtrall wrote: »
    On what planet should they both reflect on your kill Stat on the scoreboard equally?

    I guess planet Mars, because I never suggested that.

    Remember two separate things suggested: K+R/D+R on the stat sites --- Revives in parenthesis displayed on the scoreboard (but not affecting the placement of the player up or down on the scoreboard -- since K/D doesn't affect up or down on the scoreboard, only score does).

    Try to take all your emotion out of it and stop being so nasty just for the sake of being nasty.
    Try to be like Spock and then you can think more logically and evaluate an idea for what it is rather than just "I don't like him, so I cannot like this idea either."
    It would be better if you just said "Sure whatever, if you would like to see that stat on a website, more power to you, but I find it irrelevant."

    Are you kidding me?

    So did you write this part of your own response I quoted with your eyes closed and your brain turned off?
    Astr0damus wrote: »
    A Medic that goes 10-20 but did 20 Revives (and was revived none) should show 30-20

    Or the fact that your thread title implies you want kills and deaths to be combined with revives given and received? And you claim that it's not "K+R/D+R" that would be displayed on the scoreboard despite the fact that K+R/D+R is in your thread title representing the state you're suggesting should be added, and you include it in your posts as well.

    You literally equated reviving to kills and said someone who went 10-20 but got 20 revives should have a KD displayed of 30-20.

    That sounds like equating revives to kills in my book, but maybe it's because I'm not from Mars.

    It seems I'm doing less misunderstanding and you're doing more misrepresentation of what you're attempting to convey, while continuing to ignore that its a pointless change for anyone not playing medic.

    I'm gonna go out on a limb here and bet that the vast majority of people playing this game aren't worried about seeing how many revives their teammates have gotten on the scoreboard.

    Lastly, I'm not being "nasty", I'm responding DIRECTLY to the words you post on here and am doing so from a place of logic and looking at the bigger picture - just like I do with every other thread on here.

    Some here would even claim I was probably one of the most level headed, logic-focused posters on these boards. My posts are never poorly thought out.

    I responded saying you implied you wanted to equate reviving to killing on the scoreboard because thats actually what you said/implied. You can read your own post yourself.

    Sorry, but saying "someone going 10-20 with 20 revives should be displayed as 30-20" is in no way, shape, or form similar to saying you want kills with revives beside it in parenthesis.

    Saying I'm being nasty is nothing but an unwarranted defense mechanism against what I'm saying, in absence of logical and warranted retorts.

    I'm not disagreeing with you because I don't like you, I'm disagreeing with you because I think your ideas for the scoreboard are not needed, pointless, and only holds worth for people playing a specific class - on top of how inconsistent and flawed such a system could be.

    Sorry if you can't handle discussion on a discussion forum - but you posting what you want changed in the game and me responding with "you want that to happen, more power to you - but I think it's pointless" is not discussion.

    If I'm discussing a change or suggestion I don't support, I'm going to explain why I think it's pointless or dumb. I'm not just going to respond with "okay, but I don't think it's worth it". That response would be as short sighted and pointless as this suggested scoreboard change.
    Post edited by Loqtrall on
  • x_Undaunted_x
    3766 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Astr0damus wrote: »
    Try to take all your emotion out of it and stop being so nasty just for the sake of being nasty.
    Try to be like Spock and then you can think more logically and evaluate an idea for what it is rather than just "I don't like him, so I cannot like this idea either."
    It would be better if you just said "Sure whatever, if you would like to see that stat on a website, more power to you, but I find it irrelevant."

    So, the only reason loqtrall (or anyone for that matter) doesn't like your idea is because you think he doesn't like you and his disagreement is personal towards you rather than your idea? Good grief!
  • Loqtrall
    12459 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited November 2017
    Astr0damus wrote: »
    Try to take all your emotion out of it and stop being so nasty just for the sake of being nasty.
    Try to be like Spock and then you can think more logically and evaluate an idea for what it is rather than just "I don't like him, so I cannot like this idea either."
    It would be better if you just said "Sure whatever, if you would like to see that stat on a website, more power to you, but I find it irrelevant."

    So, the only reason loqtrall (or anyone for that matter) doesn't like your idea is because you think he doesn't like you and his disagreement is personal towards you rather than your idea? Good grief!

    Thank you. That portion was complete nonsense. The only people I personally go after because of dislike on this forum are trolls that are targeting me or people making underhanded insults in direct response to me.

    I'm one of the users that actually sits there, re-reads, rephrases, and re-read again before posting.

    I actually go back and edit to add things I forget after re-reading my responses for a third time.

    I put too much into posting on this forum to let some random person get to me because I disagree with their ideas. If I were actually acting nasty/emotional, mods would probably already be on my back.
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