In order to PTFO you need good K/D and thats the ultimate stat

Comments

  • HuwJarz
    3789 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Win/loss does not matter in a public space of 31 others who may or may not help to win. So that stat does not matter one bit. Teamplay/spotting and Positioning can all be done with a positive k/d.

    That statement is actually not true. Win% is correlated highly with the KPM, SPM, Skill, K/D. Unfortunately there are a lot of stat padders out there that weaken the correlation, but it is still correlated.

    There is a good analogy showing WHY it is true. Take a football team - Soccer or US Football. The teams have large rosters. All players in the roster are good, but there are huge wages for the superstars that can make that marginal difference and win games. Teams with the best players on average win more games. That is why the richest clubs in ten world tend to top their leagues. Occasionally (and I mean really occasionally) a small team may do great and win the ladder (Leicester City) but in average the biggest clubs dominate because the have the best players at the margin.
  • KorpusDraige
    2229 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    HuwJarz wrote: »
    Win/loss does not matter in a public space of 31 others who may or may not help to win. So that stat does not matter one bit. Teamplay/spotting and Positioning can all be done with a positive k/d.

    That statement is actually not true. Win% is correlated highly with the KPM, SPM, Skill, K/D. Unfortunately there are a lot of stat padders out there that weaken the correlation, but it is still correlated.

    There is a good analogy showing WHY it is true. Take a football team - Soccer or US Football. The teams have large rosters. All players in the roster are good, but there are huge wages for the superstars that can make that marginal difference and win games. Teams with the best players on average win more games. That is why the richest clubs in ten world tend to top their leagues. Occasionally (and I mean really occasionally) a small team may do great and win the ladder (Leicester City) but in average the biggest clubs dominate because the have the best players at the margin.

    One person can not control/contest the majority of the flags on the map if none of his teammates are not contributing to it, but the other team has more players contributing. It is a public game where the win/loss is highly determined by if you get a team that is doing something. So, it is true.
  • Toshevbg
    124 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    I think I may not have been clear. By Good K/D player I mean something like 40/20 whos on top of leaderboards. I dont mean guys that are walkig around hiding behind trees

    The best players in the game are top 3 always with good KD and high number of kills regardless of class..

    I have gone 60-10 with Sweeper it was kinda lucky game but still. You can get a lot of kills and good KD with every class..Every class is made for killing

    Medics have some of hte best mid range guns. There is no excuse why a good medic cant go 30+ and have a KD of 1.5 + and doing well.


    P.S Yeah looking forward to trying to kill tank and waiting for an ammo box to supply me :). If u can kill it with 2x anti tank 1 normal and if u can get a AT Rocket on him - You have done this... If you fail you are probably dead.. I have not seen a tank waiting for me to throw 3 granades and then to resupply so i can get more
  • azelenkin0306
    516 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    Yes and no. A lot of factors may influence K/D ratio in specific match.

    For example, several weeks ago I was playing the Kaiserschlacht operation and there was a tanker in the opposite team with 100 Service Stars with Heavy tank. So, pretty experienced tanker. Since he was steamrolling our team (something like 70-0), I switched to Assault and went against him. In the end I've managed to destroy his tank, but before he killed me 7 or 8 times. Then he left and we won. My K/D was 0.7.

    Another example: Red Tide operation, Defending. The attacking team was so trash, that they didn't even take the first sector. We easily won and my K/D was 26.

    Another example: I've decided to give AutoLoading 8.35 Factory a try. First 5-6 games - K/D is ~0.9, then ~3-4.

    Therefore, K/D is important, but it's not the ultimate stat :)

    Regarding KPM - it also depends heavily on your playstyle, weapon, class, mode and lot of other things. For average player, like me, KPM with Shotgun/Hellriegel will be slightly different than KPM with Auto 8.35 or Gewehr M.95
  • HuwJarz
    3789 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member

    One person can not control/contest the majority of the flags on the map if none of his teammates are not contributing to it, but the other team has more players contributing. It is a public game where the win/loss is highly determined by if you get a team that is doing something. So, it is true.

    OK - If your statement is true, then explain to me WHY all the players in the top 100 in the world at KPM have over 60% win percentages. Are you suggesting that they are ALL stat padders? Why do all the top 100 in the world at SPM all have over 60% win percentages. Are they all stat padders too?
  • KorpusDraige
    2229 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited November 2017
    HuwJarz wrote: »

    One person can not control/contest the majority of the flags on the map if none of his teammates are not contributing to it, but the other team has more players contributing. It is a public game where the win/loss is highly determined by if you get a team that is doing something. So, it is true.

    OK - If your statement is true, then explain to me WHY all the players in the top 100 in the world at KPM have over 60% win percentages. Are you suggesting that they are ALL stat padders? Why do all the top 100 in the world at SPM all have over 60% win percentages. Are they all stat padders too?

    Could be playing with friends to help win. Is it that difficult to know that 1 guy vs 32 is not going to happen if there are more players on the other side doing more work to capture and hold?

    http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf4/battlereport/show/64/906928646750979904/226733901/

    I'll just leave that there. No matter what, if you don't have as many people contributing to help win, you won't win (if the other team has more people doing work). I can fly and go 100-0 and get a 4 KPM and still lose if I don't have enough people doing what needs to be done. KPM and K/D is a huge factor, but you can't be alone doing this.

    How about this one? http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf4/battlereport/show/64/547928060651117568/226733901/

    Barely won due to having a team incapable of handling themselves. It is a public game and is random who you're paired with.
  • Toshevbg
    124 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    HuwJarz wrote: »

    One person can not control/contest the majority of the flags on the map if none of his teammates are not contributing to it, but the other team has more players contributing. It is a public game where the win/loss is highly determined by if you get a team that is doing something. So, it is true.

    OK - If your statement is true, then explain to me WHY all the players in the top 100 in the world at KPM have over 60% win percentages. Are you suggesting that they are ALL stat padders? Why do all the top 100 in the world at SPM all have over 60% win percentages. Are they all stat padders too?

    I agree with you a single GOOD/Great player can influence the game. I rate myself highly and if they are evenly match teams and I pick one we have a better chance to win now especially once I get SQUAD Leader.. In even games a smart and good SPM/KPM player can navigate his squad to capture obvious flags and not to have them fighting on choke points. So many times on Rupture and Soissons people fight on C and a good player will navigate his team to get D/A and attack from behind.

    WHen 40 idiots fight at the bridge or in the trenches you really need 2 guys with brain to win the game or gain enough advantage to have a very good chance
  • Toshevbg
    124 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Yes and no. A lot of factors may influence K/D ratio in specific match.

    For example, several weeks ago I was playing the Kaiserschlacht operation and there was a tanker in the opposite team with 100 Service Stars with Heavy tank. So, pretty experienced tanker. Since he was steamrolling our team (something like 70-0), I switched to Assault and went against him. In the end I've managed to destroy his tank, but before he killed me 7 or 8 times. Then he left and we won. My K/D was 0.7.

    Another example: Red Tide operation, Defending. The attacking team was so trash, that they didn't even take the first sector. We easily won and my K/D was 26.

    Another example: I've decided to give AutoLoading 8.35 Factory a try. First 5-6 games - K/D is ~0.9, then ~3-4.

    Therefore, K/D is important, but it's not the ultimate stat :)

    Regarding KPM - it also depends heavily on your playstyle, weapon, class, mode and lot of other things. For average player, like me, KPM with Shotgun/Hellriegel will be slightly different than KPM with Auto 8.35 or Gewehr M.95

    Yeah there are games where you can fail at K/D and have amazing games but still you need to have high KPM. In my mind KPM/KDM goes hand to hand by good KD I mean that the guy obviously finished top 3/4 and killed a bunch of guys and that the very same guy can lose mvp because some wave rider was crouching in the corners to get the capture points..

    From 5 conquests usually two i have KD 2.50+ with 40 kills and there is always THAT game where I finish 35/26 40/30 . Bassicly it was a blood fest and it was a very very close game and I put myself on the line to do some game changing captures

    Bassicly I just dont like and enjoy players that are bad at gun fighting and exploit game mechanics to try to get MVP when they do not deserve it. Such players are already rewarded enough with their fake score
  • MachoFantast1c0
    1798 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    @HuwJarz I don't think this is a good analogy. Sports team affiliation is largely static, whereas your team composition in BF1 changes from round to round. Also, I would be very interested in seeing an analysis of this claim based on actual data.
    .
    I'm willing to concede that high personal skill-indicating attributes are more likely associated with a +50 win percentage, but I find it implausible that there is a significant correlation, especially for 64 player modes. Small game modes are a different thing, there individual contributions carry more weight. At least in my personal experience.
    .
    Battlefieldtracker.com is down at the moment, but I'm pretty sure my per-game mode win% ratio is around 50% for CQ, but significantly higher for Domination and some other small modes. Overall win% is 53, which is close to what you would statistically expect for a lone-wolf playing in balancer-nominated teams (ie. no team stacking pre-round, no team switching mid round, no rage quitting etc). This is coming from someone who is not particularly skilled compared to good/great players, but nonetheless skill usually in the top ten percent.
    .
    Also, in addition to above, determining the correlation you would have to control for other variables such as squadding up for organized play, voice comms etc. So just looking at raw values without context has a high risk of mistaking correlation with causation. So I would be more inclined to guess that a high win% is more correlated with factors other than individual skill.

  • KorpusDraige
    2229 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    HuwJarz wrote: »
    Win/loss does not matter in a public space of 31 others who may or may not help to win. So that stat does not matter one bit. Teamplay/spotting and Positioning can all be done with a positive k/d.


    There is a good analogy showing WHY it is true. Take a football team - Soccer or US Football. The teams have large rosters. All players in the roster are good, but there are huge wages for the superstars that can make that marginal difference and win games. Teams with the best players on average win more games. That is why the richest clubs in ten world tend to top their leagues. Occasionally (and I mean really occasionally) a small team may do great and win the ladder (Leicester City) but in average the biggest clubs dominate because the have the best players at the margin.

    Let me actually respond to this part too. You're talking about a team that is communicating ad working together, compared to a team on BF that is not communicating without any chemistry. You want a team that works together where win/loss is fun to obtain? You play a scrim with a team vs a team (which I do/did).
  • Toshevbg
    124 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Its normal for good players to group with other . Sometimes it happenes by itself. When I see someone really good on my team I try switch to his squad and I have seen good players switching to mine. ALso when you are good that means you are bassicly in a Platoon or have atleast 10/15 guys that play battlefield. They usually join you mid/game or sometimes and play with you. There is rarely a top player that plays byitself for hours. Thats why they have a good win on conquests.

    Mine is 60+ and I team hop only ot beginning of games to change to a good squad or to group up with a friend/platoon. Thats how I impact even when I play alone. First conquest I see someone 40+ kills and good KD. I either join him or he joins me at the next map. We pull resources together
  • HuwJarz
    3789 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    @HuwJarz I don't think this is a good analogy. Sports team affiliation is largely static, whereas your team composition in BF1 changes from round to round. Also, I would be very interested in seeing an analysis of this claim based on actual data.
    .
    I'm willing to concede that high personal skill-indicating attributes are more likely associated with a +50 win percentage, but I find it implausible that there is a significant correlation, especially for 64 player modes. Small game modes are a different thing, there individual contributions carry more weight. At least in my personal experience.
    .
    Battlefieldtracker.com is down at the moment, but I'm pretty sure my per-game mode win% ratio is around 50% for CQ, but significantly higher for Domination and some other small modes. Overall win% is 53, which is close to what you would statistically expect for a lone-wolf playing in balancer-nominated teams (ie. no team stacking pre-round, no team switching mid round, no rage quitting etc). This is coming from someone who is not particularly skilled compared to good/great players, but nonetheless skill usually in the top ten percent.
    .
    Also, in addition to above, determining the correlation you would have to control for other variables such as squadding up for organized play, voice comms etc. So just looking at raw values without context has a high risk of mistaking correlation with causation. So I would be more inclined to guess that a high win% is more correlated with factors other than individual skill.

    You make some fair points, and I definitely agree with your assertion that the correlation will be stronger for small modes AND it will be stronger for squadding up. Its hard to isolate evidence statistically, and i I will think about it, (you cannot isolate the squad effect), but I can tell you that I can something anecdotally, that yiu will have to take on trust: I have been running platoons since inception. We normally win 70% of games. We recently brought on a new player that is really fantastic skill wise. Since we brought him in, on the nights he is playing we are winning 85% of out conquest games.

    I do disagree with you point about my analogy ;-). All I am saying is that big players affect games at the margins. They CAN be the difference between a win and a loss on any team.
  • KorpusDraige
    2229 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Toshevbg wrote: »
    Its normal for good players to group with other . Sometimes it happenes by itself. When I see someone really good on my team I try switch to his squad and I have seen good players switching to mine. ALso when you are good that means you are bassicly in a Platoon or have atleast 10/15 guys that play battlefield. They usually join you mid/game or sometimes and play with you. There is rarely a top player that plays byitself for hours. Thats why they have a good win on conquests.

    Mine is 60+ and I team hop only ot beginning of games to change to a good squad or to group up with a friend/platoon. Thats how I impact even when I play alone. First conquest I see someone 40+ kills and good KD. I either join him or he joins me at the next map. We pull resources together

    lol There's nothing wrong with playing with friends/platoon mates, as I do as well. I'm just saying winning is easier and more controlled when you have more helping (friends/platoon). I also play by myself a lot as it's how I get better, by putting all the pressure on me helps me learn how to deal with it... Plus pubs are easy and playing by yourself makes it a challenge (somewhat).
  • KorpusDraige
    2229 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    HuwJarz wrote: »
    @HuwJarz I don't think this is a good analogy. Sports team affiliation is largely static, whereas your team composition in BF1 changes from round to round. Also, I would be very interested in seeing an analysis of this claim based on actual data.
    .
    I'm willing to concede that high personal skill-indicating attributes are more likely associated with a +50 win percentage, but I find it implausible that there is a significant correlation, especially for 64 player modes. Small game modes are a different thing, there individual contributions carry more weight. At least in my personal experience.
    .
    Battlefieldtracker.com is down at the moment, but I'm pretty sure my per-game mode win% ratio is around 50% for CQ, but significantly higher for Domination and some other small modes. Overall win% is 53, which is close to what you would statistically expect for a lone-wolf playing in balancer-nominated teams (ie. no team stacking pre-round, no team switching mid round, no rage quitting etc). This is coming from someone who is not particularly skilled compared to good/great players, but nonetheless skill usually in the top ten percent.
    .
    Also, in addition to above, determining the correlation you would have to control for other variables such as squadding up for organized play, voice comms etc. So just looking at raw values without context has a high risk of mistaking correlation with causation. So I would be more inclined to guess that a high win% is more correlated with factors other than individual skill.

    We normally win 70% of games. We recently brought on a new player that is really fantastic skill wise. Since we brought him in, on the nights he is playing we are winning 85% of out conquest games.

    I do disagree with you point about my analogy ;-). All I am saying is that big players affect games at the margins. They CAN be the difference between a win and a loss on any team.

    Exactly. "We". Not one person. When you play with friends, its easier to control the win, obviously... Any good squad can do that. When you're playing by yourself you have no control on the amount of others providing to the win.

    Your analogy is basically actual team vs random team though, so it does't really apply. Im almost always MVP in CQ and I'll be first to tell you, win/loss does not matter too much in a public game due to random players.
  • Astr0damus
    2645 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Toshevbg wrote: »
    I`ve been reading this forum a lot in my spare time and I just cant explain how someguys wants KD stats removed and
    continue to to have absurd discussion when points>KD in conquest!

    Are you a narcissist?

    We have a 35 page thread where you posted this exact same post, but it's like you needed to have an additional thread while at the same time complaining about how much it is being discussed.
    You said, and I quote: "..and continue to have absurd discussion"

    Your post in that other thread is verbatim: https://forums.battlefield.com/en-us/discussion/comment/1050917/#Comment_1050917

    I don't really get it.. people are having a good conversation in that 35 page thread and others keep posting memes of someone beating a dead horse to try and stop conversation--people who are in your camp by the way, the one's who are in love with their fake K/D's, and yet here you are, contrary to your brothers, you start a brand new thread to discuss the exact same topic.

    Should everyone repeat themselves for 35 more pages?

    I hope this thread gets locked.
  • Teh_Next
    1860 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    Astr0damus wrote: »
    Toshevbg wrote: »
    I`ve been reading this forum a lot in my spare time and I just cant explain how someguys wants KD stats removed and
    continue to to have absurd discussion when points>KD in conquest!

    Are you a narcissist?

    We have a 35 page thread where you posted this exact same post, but it's like you needed to have an additional thread while at the same time complaining about how much it is being discussed.
    You said, and I quote: "..and continue to have absurd discussion"

    Your post in that other thread is verbatim: https://forums.battlefield.com/en-us/discussion/comment/1050917/#Comment_1050917

    I don't really get it.. people are having a good conversation in that 35 page thread and others keep posting memes of someone beating a dead horse to try and stop conversation--people who are in your camp by the way, the one's who are in love with their fake K/D's, and yet here you are, contrary to your brothers, you start a brand new thread to discuss the exact same topic.

    Should everyone repeat themselves for 35 more pages?

    I hope this thread gets locked.

    Now that's a calling out! :D
  • x_Undaunted_x
    3760 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    edited November 2017
    Teh_Next wrote: »
    Astr0damus wrote: »
    Toshevbg wrote: »
    I`ve been reading this forum a lot in my spare time and I just cant explain how someguys wants KD stats removed and
    continue to to have absurd discussion when points>KD in conquest!

    Are you a narcissist?

    We have a 35 page thread where you posted this exact same post, but it's like you needed to have an additional thread while at the same time complaining about how much it is being discussed.
    You said, and I quote: "..and continue to have absurd discussion"

    Your post in that other thread is verbatim: https://forums.battlefield.com/en-us/discussion/comment/1050917/#Comment_1050917

    I don't really get it.. people are having a good conversation in that 35 page thread and others keep posting memes of someone beating a dead horse to try and stop conversation--people who are in your camp by the way, the one's who are in love with their fake K/D's, and yet here you are, contrary to your brothers, you start a brand new thread to discuss the exact same topic.

    Should everyone repeat themselves for 35 more pages?

    I hope this thread gets locked.

    Now that's a calling out! :D

    Especially when he's guilty of doing the same thing.
  • doctim2
    362 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Toshevbg wrote: »
    I think I may not have been clear. By Good K/D player I mean something like 40/20 whos on top of leaderboards. I dont mean guys that are walkig around hiding behind trees

    The best players in the game are top 3 always with good KD and high number of kills regardless of class..

    Not true. There are plenty of screenshot examples in the other thread of people in the top 3 with meh or even negative K/Ds.
  • Solid_SkG
    1134 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    This post is so wrong just by reading the title.

    Playing the f***ing Objective is not only about capturing flags but how every single class in the team does their job.

    Even if someone has the perfect aim to headshot everybody in the flag area he cant do much if the assault dont destroy the tanks thats nearby,if the medic is not there to heal him when he takes damage,if the support isnt there to provide ammo and if the scout doesnt shoot flares or spot enemies so the high KDR player know who is near him and who is flanking him.

    Ive seen players with a tank camping on a hill and go 50-0 and no he wasnt helping at all because the enemy team had the flag which was near the tank and enemies were hiding behind buildings
    so all the infantry was getting wrecked and our tank could stop that by just getting in the flag to provide more support for the infantry,but no he chose to get a defeat with 0 deaths so he can check his stats later and touch himself thinking he is so good.

    I appreciate more the players who are trying to flank enemy flags when our team has only one objective and there is a clusterf**k in front of them but they dont join the fight instead they are avoiding enemies and go for the unprotected objectives rather than those with an impressive kdr.
  • disposalist
    8279 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    If i pay for this game then i determine how to play this game. Not you, not other players, not Dice/EA. I allways PTFO. But if a sniper wants to sit down on the edge of the map because hi wants to get a large headshot then its up to him. Who iam i or you to decide how hi must play??. Hi pay for the game so hi decide what his playstyle is. And if other players not like it then it is there problem.
    You have paid for access to a multiplayer space. There are many rules you signed up to adhere to. There are many restrictions in gameplay - it's not a true sandbox. There are rules to the game modes, as designed by DICE, though they don't strictly enforce them, they encourage.

    The exact point of this PTFO vs KD argument is a lot of people recognise that maybe the game mode rules *should* be more strict in order to better encourage objectives-based play in objectives-based modes.

    In face-to-face multiplayer activities you would soon be asked to stop messing up the game for everyone else or leave. But on the good old internet, you can pay your entry fee, then just ignore the rules everyone else is having fun playing to even if you know it is detrimental to everyone else's fun. Yay. Cool.
This discussion has been closed.

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!