Will defense ever truly be part of Conquest?

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Chubzdoomer
682 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
edited January 12
Conquest has always been my favorite game mode because of its scale and freedom. However, something that has always irked me is the sheer lack of defense exhibited by almost every single team.

It troubled me in Battlefield 3, but I figured since we hadn't had a Battlefield game of that size since Battlefield 2 players would simply need time to adjust. I thought for sure it would get better. It didn't. Battlefield 4? Same story. Battlefield 1? Yep, you guessed it -- players still can't seem to grasp that capturing a flag and immediately rushing towards the next one in a large swarm leaves everything else undefended.

Thus, most Conquest rounds devolve into what I like to call "Ring-around-the-rosie" slugfests. Capture a flag, lose a flag, rinse, repeat until the end of the round. The only exceptions seem to be when one team snowballs the other and rolls across the map unopposed, or when teams get bogged down on "straight line" maps (like Giant's Shadow or even Suez) due to the lack of flanking opportunities.

Some excellent examples of maps that suffer from "Ring-around-the-rosie" gameplay are St. Quentin, Amiens, Nivelle, and Fort Vaux. And to be clear, I'm not at all blaming the maps themselves. Paradoxically, the aforementioned maps are among my favorites because of their nonlinear designs and plethora of routes/flanks.

I hate how the lack of defense turns these excellent maps into a neverending series of pointless fights. Flag captures rarely feel like they mean anything because said flags are inevitably left in the dust mere seconds after they've changed hands. When you roll over an "important" flag like one of the bridges on Amiens, it should feel like a major accomplishment and give your team an excellent foothold; but only rarely is this the case.

Is anyone else as frustrated with this as I am? I'd love to hear your thoughts. And DICE, I hope you're listening! Conquest is a sweet mode, but it's clear that Battlefield's playerbase will never actually play it properly by holding the majority of flags. Changes must be made, and soon! If the next Battlefield game doesn't see some major alterations to the formula/ruleset, I'll be incredibly disappointed.

Comments

  • wenkels
    109 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Idk, defense needs to be played but while you're sitting on a flag waiting you aren't doing anything for your team, not to mention defenders are at a huge disadvantage compared to attackers. I find it best to push flags that put your own flags behind you, so you're fighting enemies that might be coming, but I think you always have to be pushing.
  • Imabaka70
    836 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    edited January 12
    Continually pushing is fine but as long as it doesn't come at the cost of blindly ignoring flanks to the flags behind you.
    Also noticed as I'm standing on a flag the Zerg mass will take off after capture even though the flag is contested.

    While I have over 10k flag defenses and somewhere between 5-6k captures unusually will stop my push a flag before their give me or in the middle. And wait a bit to either stop the rushing to the middle flags or rear flags.

    I've lost track of how many times it's just me or me and my squad going back to stop a back cap.
  • wenkels
    109 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    edited January 12
    Imabaka70 wrote: »
    Continually pushing is fine but as long as it doesn't come at the cost of blindly ignoring flanks to the flags behind you.
    Also noticed as I'm standing on a flag the Zerg mass will take off after capture even though the flag is contested.

    While I have over 10k flag defenses and somewhere between 5-6k captures unusually will stop my push a flag before their give me or in the middle. And wait a bit to either stop the rushing to the middle flags or rear flags.

    I've lost track of how many times it's just me or me and my squad going back to stop a back cap.

    I will say I always go back to cap a contested friendly flag, especially if I'm scout. Soooooooo easy to shoot a flair and kill 2-3 enemies with a hand gun if you know where they are.
  • Gforce81
    2505 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Also important: defense is great, but it's only important when your team is currently winning. If you have 2/5 flags, and the enemy is say, 50-60 tickets ahead, you HAVE to go sprint off to try and get another flag. You have to be really aggressive to try and make up the difference, 2/5 flags just won't cut it
  • Chubzdoomer
    682 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Gforce81 wrote: »
    Also important: defense is great, but it's only important when your team is currently winning. If you have 2/5 flags, and the enemy is say, 50-60 tickets ahead, you HAVE to go sprint off to try and get another flag. You have to be really aggressive to try and make up the difference, 2/5 flags just won't cut it

    Exactly. I'm mostly talking about when the team already owns the majority of flags, yet players continue to run around leaving everything undefended. I see this on maps like Fort de Vaux constantly and it makes me want to scream.
  • Imabaka70
    836 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    Gforce81 wrote: »
    Also important: defense is great, but it's only important when your team is currently winning. If you have 2/5 flags, and the enemy is say, 50-60 tickets ahead, you HAVE to go sprint off to try and get another flag. You have to be really aggressive to try and make up the difference, 2/5 flags just won't cut it

    This is also correct and sometimes in your push go to their deepest flag if possible. The good players will usually pull off the flag and go back. Just hope in all this some of your blue berries will take the flag.
  • trip1ex
    1717 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    edited January 12
    You have to play containment. No reason one can't advance but you have to contain the enemy while doing it otherwise pointless to advance.

    you can't contain the enemy if everyone all bunched up in same spot and if you don't weed out enemies around flag zones before and while you're advancing.

    I think the game needs a commander to control deployment of troops so it is makes some sense. And because players probably would mess it up, I think the commanders should be AI and be able to shut off spawns and areas from being able to spawned into when the team already has enough troops in that area and little to none on other major fronts.

  • Knucklehead23jp
    277 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    Frustrating and i really hate the PTFO police. Ill be ready in ambush position waiting for the counter attack and some dude will come by and start smacking me with a melee hitting the "go go go " button . Im trying to keep our points coming and not lose a flag . Ill take a few with me cuz im always out numbered when they come i dont need some try hard giving me the blues because im not running around in a herd. My PTFO is winning the match the win is my objective take then hold. Sweep and clear the areas so your not just doing it all over again in less than a minute
  • azelenkin0306
    205 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    If you defend, your KPM and SPM will drastically go down, meaning that you're not a skilled BF1 player. Also, defending is pointless, because the next wave of PTFOers will steamroll you.
  • olavafar
    944 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    It is called 'Conquest', not 'Hold' :).

    Having said that, if I'm in a DADS squad we sometimes (not very often, as we mostly play quite disorganized) decide on two flags on the opponent teams half of the map. Then we will take and hold these two for the whole match and leave it up to the other 28 players to take care of the other flags. If team is not totally made of noobs we mostly win this way.
  • grrlpurple
    464 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    Zerging one flag to the next never wins unless a flag is held, and defended, somewhere. I frequently feel like the only one ordering and defending a flag.
  • MegaloDorian
    690 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    I think part of the problem is that many of the capture points in Battlefield 1 are far easier to capture than to defend. The only exceptions generally seem to be the central flags on the linear maps (like Argonne and Tsaritsyn) or objectives with a high elevation. As such, trying to defend an objective will get you absolutely stomped by those trying to take it. The game needs more objectives that are placed at higher elevations. Because as much as I love Nivelle Nights, defending a trenched-in objective from enemies that are pouring in from above is way too difficult.
  • beetroot888
    616 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    There's plenty of guys on a team, no need for 32 guys rushing flag to flag. But it happens all the time. Until dice starts to reward defense twice as much as offense nothing will change. People play the way they will, can't change.
  • GRIZZ11283
    3576 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    Theres so many flanking routes, it makes it pretty difficult to contain the opposition, the map layouts kind of force the map zerg.

    Other than Suez, its fairly easy to not get contained and push behind the opposition.
    Amiens is similar in that regard, which I think has the best map layout.
    There's a chance to contain if done right, but there's also a chance to get out if you push at the weakest point of defence.
  • ElliotLH
    1779 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    I quite enjoy defending as I'm too lazy to run from one end of the map to the other:


    8F8DTCS.jpg


    Normally it doesn't end very well for me though when it's 1 VS 5+, as others have already pointed out in the thread.
  • ninjapenquinuk
    416 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    Defending in CQ, as in 'digging in', isn't really a viable option on most flags in the game because there is so little cover and you can get attacked from multiple sides due to the map layout.
  • l_water_l
    1056 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    I always enjoy watching the lemmings leave a flag they just captured when there are still enemies there.
  • Chubzdoomer
    682 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    edited January 12
    I often feel like im playing with bots. After you captured a flag everybody starts running off although there is already an enemy on the flag and 2 others spotted. Thats not playing the objective,thats just dumb. I dont know if classic rules with ticketbleed would help but i really dislike the new conquest rules.

    LOL, that's always what I say to myself. It feels exactly like playing with bots! You'd think players would at least show more intelligence by clearing out the flag area before moving on, but they don't even get that right. I can't count the number of times my team has captured a flag and immediately run off despite there being one or more enemies nearby. I was in a match on Amiens last night and it was happening nonstop at A and B.
  • Colt_Seavers009
    48 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    If Im in command of a squad, I make them play sensible map coverage. And since they want the points for obeying my orders, at least one squad on the Battlefield is playing the game properly. BF is all about holding your home flags that you SHOULD own, and spending the most effort dominating the middle contested flags, while occasionally making strikes on opponents home flags to keep them honest. The Zerg rush is just so annoying to watch. I wish the game awarded defense points for staying and holding a flag if you are in the tight cap zone, and 50% hold points for being in the outer ring of the cap zone. Then maybe zerg rush wouldnt be as popular. If one squad was properly awarded for staying at one flag all match and holding it, youd get more defensive minded players. Im the kind of player that will do anything to JUST WIN BABY! I dont care about my KD, KPM or SPM. I just reached level 80, play Conquest almost exclusively, and Im pretty damn proud of my 55% win percentage. Im not a mindless soldier just chasing the next kill, Im always looking at the big picture, and playing the scoreboard appropriately.
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