Make BF Great Again: Make a minimum LSALT for all planes

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SneakyGunman
384 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
edited April 2018
Introduction
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Dice, there is a imbalance on all maps that include air assets that I simply can't shake. At times pilots seem to prefer to attack only infantry at just about 10-30' from the ground. If a solider gear is only for ground assets they have no choice but to respawning as there is no defense for air assualt. It's something that should be balanced out more.
--
Dice, there are not enough ground assets (specially in Operations) nor room for soldiers on the ground to carry specific weapons for both ground and air assets. Yet, the design of map tells us that ground troops have to still deal with both air and ground assets at the same time while still trying to play the objective. You cannot and should not make it the ground troops responsibility to deal with both ground assets (tanks) and air assets (all planes shooting ground targets from behind) at the same time. This is the imbalance. Soldiers have to joggle between tanks and sneaky pilots strafing easy ground targets from the back of a soldier (Operations make it easier for pilots to do this). This completely throws off playing the objective.
--
Dice: This is a Problem
Pilots are exploiting this mechanic of the game to farm higher then normal K/D by joining up as one separate team create a new mechanic "pilots" vs "grunts".
This could be an idea for a new "game mode" but it's something that we shouldn't be forced into when there are flags on the ground to capture or defend. Many here know it's common knowledge that pilots from both sides instantly join up to create this 3rd dynamic "pilots" vs "grunts" in which they farm for easy kills and high k/d.
There could be many examples but your own telemetry will show you this already when it comes to decent pilots.
--
Dice the Solution is Clear. All planes should have a Lowest Safe Altitude (LSALT) that is Out of Bounds (OOB).
Therefore, in order to alleviate the dual burned placed on soldiers on the ground, the exploits of pilots joining forces and to remove an unintented 3rd team here is what I purpose:
1. Create a lowest safe alt. of 1500' for all fighter pilots. This is a suggested floor but something that would allow pilots only able to see ground troops only when they are spotted. This can be done by making it out of bounds below that threshold.
2. Create a lowest safe alt. of 3000' for all bomber pilots. Again, they will only see ground troops if their team is actually spotting their opponents. This can be done by making it out of bounds below that threshold.
3. Make it easier for pilots to see each other while in the air. This will encourage them to engage each other more then just instantly looking for easy ground targets that cannot defend themselves.
4. Allow for more air assets to spawn once there is a LSALT in place. This will create more of a dynamic to playing Operations, etc that doesn't break game balancing.
5. Encourage dog fights by rewarding pilot team work (on the same team) if they take out all air assets of the opposing team. The winning pilot team will be rewarded by lowering the floor (LSALT) to by 500' for fighter pilots and 1000' for bombers. Once the other team spawns in air assets LSALT will rise again as a warning that enemy pilots are about to engage them. However, if one team doesn't spawn air assets at the start of a match the original LSALT rule will apply.
---
This will place concentration back on opposing pilots and creates consistent dog fights. This will also allow more fighter planes to spawn.
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Dice: The Conclusion
It's clear that ground troops need more AA placements. But that's just one side of the coin here. There are other dynamics of the game that need to be address. Perhaps this is more for the next installment of BF but ground troops should not be "fish in a barrel" as collateral damage to pilots. This dynamic has been imbalanced and it needs to be addressed. I've seen countless times where players would leave a server if they are consistently snipped by pilots. In the end this is, IMO, the best way to fix the exploit and imbalance without just adding "more AA". .
-
It's a basic assumption that telemetry tells you that most moderately skilled pilots having a higher K/D then ground troops for a reason. Hopefully, this gets implemented so that BF is fun again.
Post edited by SneakyGunman on

Comments

  • SneakyGunman
    384 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited March 2018
    Sixclicks wrote: »
    There's plenty of ways to engage and destroy planes, even for infantry.

    - SAA
    - MAA
    - LMGs
    - AA Rocket Gun
    - Other Planes
    - K Bullets
    - Direct hits from coastal cannons, tank cannons, destroyer cannons, etc.
    - Tankgewher Rifle
    - Sniping the pilot

    I've even destroyed a few with the AT rocket gun.

    Also, it's meant to be a team game. You're not suppose to be carrying a solution to every encounter at all times. The idea is to have teammates to even out your own individual weak points. Unfortunately playing with random players doesn't always work out that way. So I've just got a kit saved for each problem. Just switch kits when you die.

    Plus, when they dive low, that's the easiest time to destroy them. Get a good disabling shot on their engine or wings and they'll likely crash because they can't pull up quickly enough out of the dive.
    Pilots are now strafing ground troops from behind to avoid gun fire. Albeit that rarely, if ever, happens that a pilot get gun fire from more then 1-2 soliders at a time.
    We already know you can't PTO and PTAA at the same time. It's one or the other.
    Which do you pick?
    Good luck with that argument.
  • DonSharkito
    799 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited March 2018
    There is a imbalance on all maps that include air assets that I simply can't shake. At times pilots seem to prefer to fire on infantry at "eye level" to the solider on the field. Or just about 10-30' from the ground. If a solider gear is only for ground assets they have no choice but to play rock/paper/scissor. In this case, they will be respawning. It's something that should be balanced out more.
    --
    There are not enough ground assets nor room for soldiers on the ground to carry specific weapons for both ground and air assets. Yet, the design of map tells us that ground troops have to still deal with both air and ground assets at the same time while still trying to play the objective. You cannot and should not make it the ground troops responsibility to deal with both ground assets (tanks) and air assets (all planes shooting ground targets from behind) at the same time. This is the imbalance. Soldiers have to joggle between tanks and sneaky pilots strafing easy ground targets from the back of a soldier (Operations make it easier for pilots to do this). This completely throws off playing the objective.
    ---
    Therefore, in order to alleviate the dual burned placed on soldiers on the ground here is what I purpose:
    --
    All planes have a LSAT (Lowest Safe Altitude) of 1500' for fighter planes, 3000' for bombers.
    This will make it harder for pilots to see ground troop movement and will steer their attention other opposing air assets around them. This will allow for more air assets to play in a round as they will engage each other. As oppose to picking off easy ground troops from behind! This is what pilots are doing, strafing soldiers from behind for easier kills...No skill involved doing that. And to me I consider it an exploit that needs to be fixed.
    -
    This will place concentration back on opposing pilots and creates dog fights. This will also allow more fighter planes to spawn.
    I would also suggest as a bonus that if one team takes all all Air Assets of the other team they could lower the LSALT by 500' as a bonus!
    Which would only last until the enemy team spawns air assets back into play. Then it goes back up to to LSALT standards for game play balancing.
    -
    Solider need more anti air assets
    Perhaps this is more for the next installment of BF but ground troops have to be able to defend from both air and ground assets on most maps. There needs to be away to do that without having to resort to fixed AA guns.
    -
    It's a basic assumption that telemetry tells you that most moderately skilled pilots having a higher K/D then ground troops for a reason. Hopefully, this gets implemented so that BF is fun again.

    Why not just implement a weapon for each class that one shots planes or just completely remove them?

    I understand that previously planes were sometimes unbalanced and even OP (trench fighter).
    But Dice has changed that periodically by nerfing some of the planes, improving the AA, doubling the damage of the LGM against planes, releasing the AA rocket gun.

    In the current state of the game you have plenty of resources to take down planes as Sixclicks post above outlined.

    Resources that I see almost no one use on the field.

    Is it the same people that are complaining that planes need to be nerfed?


  • FightinFinn187
    734 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    As a 90% infy player, this is all a bad idea. Yeah, planes are a nuisance, but what you have proposed would make them moot. For me personally, limiting my low altitude flight, would mean that I can't get rid of a trailing plane. When I can't shake a plane, I start to weave between buildings and trees and quite often I loose the trailing plane. I.E. either they break off or hit something. As for more anti air assets, what else could they possibly add?
  • crswipe
    559 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    Who says you can't PTFO and go above and beyond that by taking out aircraft that are hindering your advances? If that plane is in the way of what you need to accomplish, well then that plane need to go. No different than soldiers, or tanks or even SAA's taking out your own plane. Its a big picture game, not just your own view on how the game is going.
  • SneakyGunman
    384 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited March 2018
    trip1ex wrote: »

    Learn to fly. Learn to tank. Learn the game.
    Exactly...way to much emphasis on "Get Gud"
    No emphasis on "PTO" that's exactly my point.
    Thanks!
    -
    To often ground troops have to deal with both ground and air assets but you are only offer a kit for either or.
    So folks learned to just "Get Gud" because you can't do both (PTO and deal with both ground/air assets at the same time).
    Easy way out is to look for that easy target like the rest. Wash, repeat, call it a day of duty.
    --
    When the air assets have LSALT of 1500' it allows us to hone in on the objectives. Yet still deal with ground assets and air assets. But this time, not at the same time.
    This will most certainly allow for a more experienced game play experience instead of easy play, controller flying, advance k/d with strafing from behind!





    Post edited by SneakyGunman on
  • Callahan44er
    5062 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    edited March 2018
    Dont make this game easymode please. There are enough ways to deal with planes,flying low is also risky for pilots and roadkilling with the fighter is fun. Theres no problem so please dont fix it.

    A problem i see is people only chosing attackplanes and bombers and just killing infantry. With fix numbers for each vehicle type(so each team has a fighter) this would be better perhaps.
  • trip1ex
    5219 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    trip1ex wrote: »

    Learn to fly. Learn to tank. Learn the game.
    Exactly...way to much emphasis on "Get Gud"
    No emphasis on "PTO" that's exactly my point.
    Thanks!
    -
    To often ground troops have to deal with both ground and air assets but you are only offer a kit for either or.
    So folks learned to just "Get Gud" because you can't do both (PTO and deal with both ground/air assets at the same time).E
    Easy way out is to look for that easy target like the rest. Wash, repeat, call it a day.
    --
    When the air assets have LSALT of 1500' it allows us to hone in on the objectives. Yet still deal with ground assets and air assets. But this time, not at the same time.

    They do have a version of this game with no bullets. There's just a black screen. And it uses no electricity. No one kills anyone. Try it.
  • SneakyGunman
    384 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    LSALT brings flavor to the game.
  • trip1ex
    5219 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Lsalt is just a bunch of dried up tears.

  • SneakyGunman
    384 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    There is a imbalance on all maps that include air assets that I simply can't shake. At times pilots seem to prefer to fire on infantry at "eye level" to the solider on the field. Or just about 10-30' from the ground. If a solider gear is only for ground assets they have no choice but to play rock/paper/scissor. In this case, they will be respawning. It's something that should be balanced out more.
    --
    There are not enough ground assets nor room for soldiers on the ground to carry specific weapons for both ground and air assets. Yet, the design of map tells us that ground troops have to still deal with both air and ground assets at the same time while still trying to play the objective. You cannot and should not make it the ground troops responsibility to deal with both ground assets (tanks) and air assets (all planes shooting ground targets from behind) at the same time. This is the imbalance. Soldiers have to joggle between tanks and sneaky pilots strafing easy ground targets from the back of a soldier (Operations make it easier for pilots to do this). This completely throws off playing the objective.
    ---
    Therefore, in order to alleviate the dual burned placed on soldiers on the ground here is what I purpose:
    --
    All planes have a LSAT (Lowest Safe Altitude) of 1500' for fighter planes, 3000' for bombers.
    This will make it harder for pilots to see ground troop movement and will steer their attention other opposing air assets around them. This will allow for more air assets to play in a round as they will engage each other. As oppose to picking off easy ground troops from behind! This is what pilots are doing, strafing soldiers from behind for easier kills...No skill involved doing that. And to me I consider it an exploit that needs to be fixed.
    -
    This will place concentration back on opposing pilots and creates dog fights. This will also allow more fighter planes to spawn.
    I would also suggest as a bonus that if one team takes all all Air Assets of the other team they could lower the LSALT by 500' as a bonus!
    Which would only last until the enemy team spawns air assets back into play. Then it goes back up to to LSALT standards for game play balancing.
    -
    Solider need more anti air assets
    Perhaps this is more for the next installment of BF but ground troops have to be able to defend from both air and ground assets on most maps. There needs to be away to do that without having to resort to fixed AA guns.
    -
    It's a basic assumption that telemetry tells you that most moderately skilled pilots having a higher K/D then ground troops for a reason. Hopefully, this gets implemented so that BF is fun again.

    Why not just implement a weapon for each class that one shots planes or just completely remove them?

    I understand that previously planes were sometimes unbalanced and even OP (trench fighter).
    But Dice has changed that periodically by nerfing some of the planes, improving the AA, doubling the damage of the LGM against planes, releasing the AA rocket gun.

    In the current state of the game you have plenty of resources to take down planes as Sixclicks post above outlined.

    Resources that I see almost no one use on the field.

    Is it the same people that are complaining that planes need to be nerfed?


    Here is what it takes to take out air assets as a grunt on the ground

    Skip ahead to 1:00
    Ask your yourself...how many grunts does it take to take out air assets? Well then skip to 1:00 to find out. :)
  • skates15
    456 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    I just got out of a game on Grappa and killed 6 planes with AA which was best on my team. I joined with only 100 tickets left, so anyone can kill planes if you are willing to sit behind AA guns. AA kills planes, no problemo, I just don't think people enjoy using the AA.
  • Phat_Helmet
    2164 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    How about no?
  • Phat_Helmet
    2164 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    skates15 wrote: »
    I just got out of a game on Grappa and killed 6 planes with AA which was best on my team. I joined with only 100 tickets left, so anyone can kill planes if you are willing to sit behind AA guns. AA kills planes, no problemo, I just don't think people enjoy using the AA.

    If available, I take the AA truck and wreck planes. I’ve taken down 10 planes in a match.

    Minimum safe altitude is the silliest idea yet.
  • GRIZZ11283
    4839 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    Define PTFO op.

    Pretty sure taking out the enemies planes is part of that, capturing flags isn't the only thing that needs to be done.
  • MUH_Cwywardwaah
    1083 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    Sixclicks wrote: »
    - AA Rocket Gun
    Idk about conslows but pc players are not smart enough to use these alien tools of plane destruction. Ironic after all the crying about it being op.
  • FightinFinn187
    734 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Exactly! I often am accused of not PTFOing when they look at my stats, if I didn't have to lone wolf it to our gimme point and try and take it back by myself, followed by a long trek back to the front lines, if I am successful, my stats would look a lot better. I also tend to position myself ahead of a flag my team is capturing. I do this to slow or stop incoming enemy advances as to allow my team to push up a little faster, so quite often I do not get flag captures.
  • SneakyGunman
    384 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited April 2018
    Pilots on both teams attack ground troops in tandem from behind is, IMO, an known exploit. Oppossing pilots are not engaging each other but playing "shooting fish in a barrel". This again is a known exploit that needs correcting.
    ---
    Ground troops that do play the objective are more concerned with what's in front and behind them then what's at their 10 & 11 o'clock position.
    --
    Again it's much more pronounced in Operations because teams are position to face one way. It's not rocket science here!
    Pilots get into the plane already in flight (unlike BF1) they don't have to take off any more making it very kiddy at best.
    They go out of bounds behind the opposing team and do "from behind" strafe runs for easy LOL's and ego boosting (I'm a high K/D pilot pro...umadd?).
    ---
    This to me is nothing more then a exploit. And LSALT: 1500' for fighter planes, 3000' for bombers would add all the flavoring we need for good balancing and team play.
  • FightinFinn187
    734 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Your thread is played out, know when to let it die.
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