Xim Apex, what's the solution?

«13456711
shaunlake1344
546 postsMember, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
Hi, wondering if you guys could answer a few xim apex questions I have.

1. Is there any way to ban them? Could Sony develop software that could detect them or are they truely undetectable?

2. Why is the Hori tac pro the worst k&m on the market? Why do Sony endorse the worst emulator and (as far as I can tell) make no comment on the best one? Does the tac pro work like the xim or is it a fundamentally different design?

3. If game developers programmed native m&k controls could they then detect them? Would this then allow the developers to disable things like AA and slowdown for m&k users? Could they display what control system a player is using?

Personally I see m&k as a huge advantage, so I bought one. I'm going to try and show this using my own gameplay as an example. I've played with m&k once in 2002. I was deployed to Iraq and the office computer had an fps game installed. I completed the campaign 3 or 4 times, I've never played fps online using a m&k. I'm using a xim apex, a Corsair M65 pro and a Razer Orbweaver. The mouse has 9 useable buttons and the keyboard has a thumb section that can control 8 stick commands, space and alt. This means I never have to take my fingers off wasd, don't even use my pinky atm.

First impressions:

The first thing I noticed is the ability to control recoil is intuitive and very easy. I expected to struggle in cqb and be better long range but I found the exact opposite to be true, massive instant advantage in cqb.
Moving is horrible, really unnatural, very frustrating. I get shot at and I have to think which buttons to press. Brain lag is deadly!
The emulator does not have 1:1 movement like a PC has, this is caused by moving the mouse faster than the control stick can move. First impressions, I think moving the mouse at the correct pace feels to me like 1:1 movement although I have nothing to compare it to.
I'm still working on the setup and played my first k&m hour last night. My first few games were 3-4, 4-3 types. Then 10-6, 11-5 and 15-5. These were all tdm games.

The point of this thread is to encourage native k&m support on ps4. I believe at present we have a very unlevel playing field and something should be done about it. Yes, I have joined the dark side of the force so cries of foulplay and cheater will fall on deaf ears. However this is not a situation I'm happy about and I wish to contribute something to a resolution.

I love online fps games and I will always play with the best setup. Ethics are an individual concern. The only thing that matters to me is whether I'm breaking the rules or not, if it's within the rules it's all good.

If the forum allows me I plan to start a new video thread documenting my switch from DS4 to m&k.

Comments

  • digga11
    520 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    edited April 28
    Hi, wondering if you guys could answer a few xim apex questions I have.

    1. Is there any way to ban them? Could Sony develop software that could detect them or are they truely undetectable?

    2. Why is the Hori tac pro the worst k&m on the market? Why do Sony endorse the worst emulator and (as far as I can tell) make no comment on the best one? Does the tac pro work like the xim or is it a fundamentally different design?

    3. If game developers programmed native m&k controls could they then detect them? Would this then allow the developers to disable things like AA and slowdown for m&k users? Could they display what control system a player is using?

    Personally I see m&k as a huge advantage, so I bought one. I'm going to try and show this using my own gameplay as an example. I've played with m&k once in 2002. I was deployed to Iraq and the office computer had an fps game installed. I completed the campaign 3 or 4 times, I've never played fps online using a m&k. I'm using a xim apex, a Corsair M65 pro and a Razer Orbweaver. The mouse has 9 useable buttons and the keyboard has a thumb section that can control 8 stick commands, space and alt. This means I never have to take my fingers off wasd, don't even use my pinky atm.

    First impressions:

    The first thing I noticed is the ability to control recoil is intuitive and very easy. I expected to struggle in cqb and be better long range but I found the exact opposite to be true, massive instant advantage in cqb.
    Moving is horrible, really unnatural, very frustrating. I get shot at and I have to think which buttons to press. Brain lag is deadly!
    The emulator does not have 1:1 movement like a PC has, this is caused by moving the mouse faster than the control stick can move. First impressions, I think moving the mouse at the correct pace feels to me like 1:1 movement although I have nothing to compare it to.
    I'm still working on the setup and played my first k&m hour last night. My first few games were 3-4, 4-3 types. Then 10-6, 11-5 and 15-5. These were all tdm games.

    The point of this thread is to encourage native k&m support on ps4. I believe at present we have a very unlevel playing field and something should be done about it. Yes, I have joined the dark side of the force so cries of foulplay and cheater will fall on deaf ears. However this is not a situation I'm happy about and I wish to contribute something to a resolution.

    I love online fps games and I will always play with the best setup. Ethics are an individual concern. The only thing that matters to me is whether I'm breaking the rules or not, if it's within the rules it's all good.

    If the forum allows me I plan to start a new video thread documenting my switch from DS4 to m&k.

    Have you seen people are using the ps3 nav controller for movement plus a wireless mouse and your wire free.
    Was it a difficult setup.
    My mate has the apex and I’m going to borrow it while he’s on holiday and see what the crack is.
    Be interested to see how you get on.
  • HuwJarz
    3469 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    You re wasting your time. I tried a number of times to have a sensible discussion and to give my impression when i moved to XIM4, but all you will get here are cries of cheat and a wall of salt.

    Just in response to your post though:

    Its would be easy for the hardware manufacturers to identify a piece of hardware, e.g. XIM4 etc, but its not in their interests to. Ban them and a whole bunch of gamers would be alienated and move away from their consoles. Its a commercial consideration.

    I pretty much agree with your XIM synopsis, although I think you overstate the easy of controlling recoil and also overstate the problem of movement. Of course, over time you will build muscle memory of the various buttons on the K/B so that issue will go away oner time. I fond it ridiculously hard to learn new games on XIM. I'm told that a PS3 Move nav controller is very good. I tried it and didn't like it so went to keyboard......as I wanted KBM anyway

    The bit that the guys that cry hate here, is that they don't understand the lack of 121 movement. You can generally learn to move a mouse at lower speed to get 1 to 1 movement, but when you are being shot on the back and NEED to turn quickly, not amount of training is going to stop your brain telling you to move that mouse quickly - losing the 1 to 1 motion. That is the significant downside. I'm not saying it breaks the device - but it is not god mode.

    For me M+K is an advantage. I couldn't and wouldn't go back now. I think that for anyone that was brought up with KBM native, it is a good solution. But I know plenty of guys that have always played FPS on a DS$ or similar and get great results.

    One thing that I would be really happy to see is turning off AA and aim slowdown if the console detects a 3rd party device. I have those off anyway - as I thunk that is a fair outcome.........Having your aim dragged about when you re using a mouse feels stupid anyway, but I don't think you should get aim slowdown either.

    Let the salt fly.....
  • shaunlake1344
    546 postsMember, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Hey man, yeah I thought about wireless but I'd rather avoid the hassle of batteries or charging. Apparently the ps3 nav controller causes cramping. I guess it's because the analogue stick is in line with the controller and not offset like a DS4? If you get a mouse with more than 7 buttons you can use your ds4 for your left hand. I tried this and felt almost instantly better using the mouse. However, I thought it was worth putting the time in to use the keyboard because once the muscle memory is there I think the keyboard is an advantage. If you want to take the 50/50 route this is the best device I could find

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/SplitFishGameware-FragChuck-FragFX-black/dp/B00SLKVJ2Y/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1524909168&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=Fragx+fragchuck

    although I'm not 100% it's compatible.

    Getting it to work is an absolute doddle and I'm very high on the computer illiteratcy scale. Fine tuning I expect to take a while.

    I couldn't encourage people more to buy one. If there was enough of us maybe they would create keyboard and mouse lobbies. If they did I'd use them for sure.
  • digga11
    520 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    HuwJarz wrote: »
    You re wasting your time. I tried a number of times to have a sensible discussion and to give my impression when i moved to XIM4, but all you will get here are cries of cheat and a wall of salt.

    Just in response to your post though:

    Its would be easy for the hardware manufacturers to identify a piece of hardware, e.g. XIM4 etc, but its not in their interests to. Ban them and a whole bunch of gamers would be alienated and move away from their consoles. Its a commercial consideration.

    I pretty much agree with your XIM synopsis, although I think you overstate the easy of controlling recoil and also overstate the problem of movement. Of course, over time you will build muscle memory of the various buttons on the K/B so that issue will go away oner time. I fond it ridiculously hard to learn new games on XIM. I'm told that a PS3 Move nav controller is very good. I tried it and didn't like it so went to keyboard......as I wanted KBM anyway

    The bit that the guys that cry hate here, is that they don't understand the lack of 121 movement. You can generally learn to move a mouse at lower speed to get 1 to 1 movement, but when you are being shot on the back and NEED to turn quickly, not amount of training is going to stop your brain telling you to move that mouse quickly - losing the 1 to 1 motion. That is the significant downside. I'm not saying it breaks the device - but it is not god mode.

    For me M+K is an advantage. I couldn't and wouldn't go back now. I think that for anyone that was brought up with KBM native, it is a good solution. But I know plenty of guys that have always played FPS on a DS$ or similar and get great results.

    One thing that I would be really happy to see is turning off AA and aim slowdown if the console detects a 3rd party device. I have those off anyway - as I thunk that is a fair outcome.........Having your aim dragged about when you re using a mouse feels stupid anyway, but I don't think you should get aim slowdown either.

    Let the salt fly.....

    I have a old move from my collection of consoles so it’s worth a try for me. On my gaming rig I have a Logitech G903 wireless mouse will this work in wireless mode.
    It’s going to be a steep learning curve for me as I like my ds4 and even use it for pc gaming.
    I’ve got a couple of weeks to get my head round it but my mate loves it and thinks I should give it a go. I’d prefer to find a wireless solution tbh.
  • HuwJarz
    3469 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    That was my set up - PS Move and Logitech 903. I love my mouse......

    When my keyboard finally gives up the ghost - (it is a bit battered from the travelling I do with it) I'll go wireless, but of course even with the Apex, its not really wireless as you still need the DS4 plugged in........
  • digga11
    520 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    edited April 28
    HuwJarz wrote: »
    That was my set up - PS Move and Logitech 903. I love my mouse......

    When my keyboard finally gives up the ghost - (it is a bit battered from the travelling I do with it) I'll go wireless, but of course even with the Apex, its not really wireless as you still need the DS4 plugged in........

    I can deal with the ds4 as that’s in the hub but we game in a games/ tv room and I’d like to put the mouse on a tray or small table and be wire free. My two dogs tend to conduct mad random races and love to collect cables along the way.
    The rest of the gear is in a rack next to the tv.
    Best mouse I’ve used Tbh I’m a leftie so it’s good for me to find buttons you can move around, only downside is the software doesn’t like 4K.
  • shaunlake1344
    546 postsMember, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Huw - No worries about the haters. I'm only interested in solutions not problems. I only said I believe it's an advantage, I'll give you an honest appraisal, if I don't think it turns out to be a major advantage then I'll say so. With regards to the AA and slowdown did you learn how to use/abuse* it properly with the DS4? I'm top 0.3% scout kills in this game and always use irons or optics, never scopes. I'm a prolific AA user/abuser* and am finding it just as easy with a mouse. I will switch it off eventually for sure but for now I'm trying to determine the maximum advantage, whether that's AA slowdown on or off, or one on, one off. Once I've conducted my reasearch (and built some muscle memory) I will turn them off.

    *delete as appropriate
  • stiny1838
    53 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    @HuwJarz so you tried to start a sensible conversation about something that gives you an advantage over controller users then laugh at the salt you get in return and call those that call you a cheater (I don't think it's cheating it's just unfair) crybabys it seems you got the response you wanted.
  • shaunlake1344
    546 postsMember, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    digga - this is how I've got mine set up

    https://flic.kr/p/26BHJ3x
  • digga11
    520 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    digga - this is how I've got mine set up

    https://flic.kr/p/26BHJ3x

    Cheers looks good probably need to get a table like that.
    Who’s your friend on the seat.
  • INCUBA3E-BF
    1931 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
  • shaunlake1344
    546 postsMember, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    That's Monkey, she was trying to play snooker but she says humans cheat because they've got fingers and thumbs. The table is just 18mm plywood sanded and screwed together. I'd recommend it because I've had to move things around to get it comfortable, still need to move the mouse mat forward and right. Glued the excess mouse mat rubber side down where it meets the armchair, it grips really well.
  • shaunlake1344
    546 postsMember, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Although I have plenty of sympathy for this view unless that happens then PS4 and xbox are also platforms for it. I would agree with you if not for the implications for disabled users. For me I'd be quite happy to see them banned and go to back to DS4 but only if everyone did. However I do feel that this would discriminate against disabled people unfairly so it's not something I'd support.
    As to PC's if you were comparing like for like then ok. But you're not, gaming PCs cost 3 to 4 times what a playstation 4 costs and the PC is hackable. My main reason for buying a PS4 slim was to get away from hackers. I have no interest in a gaming PC and never will.


    Back to the thread, this is the first clip I thought I'd share. Nothing special but I think it shows the recoil control quite well. Using the DS4 I find the SMG08 to be the hardest weapon to use recoil wise, I generally favor the Automatico and use the SMG08 when I want to get really close. This was my first impression from the xim, using weapons like hoses. Also shows where I'm at after 1hr 30 of k&m use.

  • stiny1838
    53 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    I am 66 years old. Started on PC, but years ago switched to PS4 because of the cheating on PC. I don't play all that well, but I could not compete at all if used DS4. I do not have the dexterity or control with the thumb controls at this age and no amount of playing will change that. There is such a wide range of players, age, gender, time to play and physical abilities. The choice of controllers allow more people to enjoy the game and console makers to sell more.

    although it's nowhere near as bad as pc there are cheaters\modders on console , I came across a polish player that finished at the top of the scoreboard in 3 matches with 15,000+ points whilst staying at lvl 0 one of those with 0 kills and 0 deaths he was also fullauto sniping with an mp 18 factory from 100 m.
  • WetFishDB
    1411 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    stiny1838 wrote: »
    I am 66 years old. Started on PC, but years ago switched to PS4 because of the cheating on PC. I don't play all that well, but I could not compete at all if used DS4. I do not have the dexterity or control with the thumb controls at this age and no amount of playing will change that. There is such a wide range of players, age, gender, time to play and physical abilities. The choice of controllers allow more people to enjoy the game and console makers to sell more.

    although it's nowhere near as bad as pc there are cheaters\modders on console , I came across a polish player that finished at the top of the scoreboard in 3 matches with 15,000+ points whilst staying at lvl 0 one of those with 0 kills and 0 deaths he was also fullauto sniping with an mp 18 factory from 100 m.

    Video or it didn’t happen. I once saw a guy one shoot me from across the map with a gas mask. Legit.
  • stiny1838
    53 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    go and look for it yourself I'm not blockbuster video there are plenty of them out there ps the the video or it didn't happen thing is crap , I have posted many videos of hackers only to have people either use a crappy excuse or even accuse me of faking the video. I even got banned from another games forum for posting a link to someone selling modded accounts on livestream, because they wouldn't believe the videos. so I don't bother posting them anymore.
  • GRIZZ11283
    4658 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    stiny1838 wrote: »
    go and look for it yourself I'm not blockbuster video there are plenty of them out there ps the the video or it didn't happen thing is crap , I have posted many videos of hackers only to have people either use a crappy excuse or even accuse me of faking the video. I even got banned from another games forum for posting a link to someone selling modded accounts on livestream, because they wouldn't believe the videos. so I don't bother posting them anymore.

    :lol: and this is on ps4 :lol:

    I call bs also, infact I know it's bs.
  • stiny1838
    53 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member





    ok are these bs
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