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The thing is, people constantly and consistently complain about scout/recon players sitting a mile away from the objective and call them useless to the team even when they are actively spotting enemies. By having a significantly slower time to kill than any other weapon with body shots and a requirement to make headshots to be effective, that only further encourages all but the very best scout players to stay as far from the action as possible.
Not to mention, as seen in the gameplay videos, support also has a spotting flare. Of course it doesn't 3D spot, but it does mean scouts has lost one of it's few exclusive advantages to a class that already has quite a few exclusive advantages such as huge magazines, high fire rates, ability to resupply, faster kill times, and the ability to build up defenses.
BF1 already had a scope much like BFV's spotting scope - the parascope. And hardly anyone ever used it because it's simply not fun to just sit there and spot enemies without being able to attempt to kill them at the same time.
The only thing I can really think of that will help out the scout class after these changes is if there's a semi-auto 2 hit kill scout rifle that isn't great at long ranges, but can keep up with medics in objective ranges.
Also, from that video, the body shot damage seems very low. It looked like he was averaging around 60 damage on body shots. So I guess the whole taking out slightly injured enemies thing is out the window too. It'll also make pistol finisher kills more difficult to pull off as well.
I don't think they've shown off the progression system (archetype system) for each class yet or at least some of you don't realize there is one.
A lot of the stuff they did in Incursions is going to find its way into BFV. Incursions had like 10-15 kits you could choose from. Those Incursions kits (characters) are going to become subsets of the 4 classes in BFV.
I think we all recognise that there will be some progression, but it's not "flawed" to estimate the trajectory of things based on the evidence available so far - it's actually the only reasonable estimate possible. If SLRs start off with a huge head start on bolt actions, they are likely to benefit just as much from progression as bolt actions as well.
It is flawed to jump to conclusions based on seeing next to nothing. And flawed to assume game is BF1 but with no sweetspots.
True, from what we can tell it's not at all like bf1. I've been posting here and there what I could find so far about the mechanics. One major difference is that it looks like scouts now have damage drop off over distance, and can even become 3hk at range - we found this out by finding some vids where people scored hit markers for 44 damage on body shots at long range. It looks like the body multipliers is a new hybrid scheme compared to bf1. Furthermore the kar98k doesn't reload using a stripper clip even from empty. It's extremely difficult to judge bullet velocity but when I compare footages of bf1 to the gameplay in bf5, I would say it's overall lower velocities in bf5 (but again, take this with a pinch of salt, since this is possibly sensitive to recording parameters, etc).
So in summary, it's not like in bf1 - the bolt actions look much weaker than they were in bf1.
lol. This is that flawed thinking I'm talking about.
At the very least, EA has confirmed via westie and other youtubers that bolt action bullet velocities are lower, no sweet spot, more bullet drop, scope glint remains for bolt actions, and damage in pre-alpha has been confirmed to go down to three hit kill, and that they won't reload with stripper clip.
Meanwhile, we can see that SLRs have been buffed since BF1. So, I don't think it's flawed thinking to see the obvious fact that bolt action rifles are recieving a hard nerf and gaining nothing in return between BF1 and present-build BFV, when the scout class is already the least used class by DICE's own numbers at this point in BF1.
lol it's not bf1. it's a new game.
Flawed thinking.
It's still a shooter, in the same game engine, with largely the same, or tweaked mechanics from the former one, and there are numerous other games of the genre to form a basis of opinion off of. An objective reduction of performance compared to a previous title, extensively moreso relative to the buffs of other class' weapons, is a basis to derive valid opinion, I sincerely believe.
Exactly. There's no flawed thinking here. It's simple deductive reasoning. There's nothing to suggest thus far that this isn't the case. The only beneficial changes for scouts that I've heard of/seen are a slightly larger head hitbox and higher magnifications than the other classes to further help camp a mile away. Everything else is a very clear hard nerf to bolt action rifles. While the other classes have received very clear buffs to their performance, especially when it comes to accuracy.
I have no doubt in my mind that the scout/recon class will once again be the worst performing class, even more so than in the previous BF title. DICE would need to be hiding some serious s*** for the scout/recon class up their sleeves that they've been keeping out of trailers and gameplay to change that.
The best we can hope for is that they are, or it'll change before launch. Else bolt action rifles will, as I've said, be effectively useless for all but the best players and campers.
Glad it is gone, maybe we won't see 1/3rd of the team camping far away from objectives taking potshots and helping their team lose.
As someone who didn't snipe, basically ever, in the Battlefield franchise, I sniped a lot more in BF1 - the sweet-spot made sniper far more approachable for players who don't normally do that sort of thing. I believe this was the intended purpose of the sweet spot mechanic.
Having said that, I'm pretty happy it's gone - any design decisions that lean more towards more player skill and gunplay, I'm in favor of.
Hopefully, no more behemoths either, behemoth crutch wins doesn't feel like real wins :<
Behemoths wouldn't be needed in conquest anyway if the balancing wasn't a rancid pile of human waste.
Ahh so by that you mean snipers will stay even further away from the battle in the furthest corners of the map just like bf3 and 4? Marvelous...
If rifles are slower velocity means they become useless BF4 proved that point. The only players was Ghetto Shotguns or Hill Humpers. With ADS timing changing with scope sound like Ghetto Shotguns are back.
If no spread on SLR/DMR makes them more viable for range combat due to the ROF.
Bigger head hit boxes makes headshot more possible for all weapons not just Sniper rifles.
No sweet spot is short sight whinging caused by some players. 150m was not that far with some of the other changes implied as makes SLR more viable ranged class. If Medic keep these new SLR you will be looking at the new ranged camper.
Glint on rifles only with above changes seem redundant. As Ghetto Shotguns seem to becoming more viable and SLR seem to be heading to replace the mid range ability of Recon.
So when are LMGs, SMGs, and SLRs going to require more skill rather than just mag dumping center mass? Maybe all guns should require headshots to be effective. Make them slow to kill otherwise.
So its the End of PTFO Snipers while all the Spray N Prayers gets buffs? Dice is really ruining the WW2 Theme for me. No Kar98k with iron sights and PTFO. Biggest issue of the game.
Honestly what kine of crap is that? Every gun gets more accurate and bullets fly fast but the Sniper gets his airsoft gun back from BF3-4?