Goodbye sweet spot :D

Comments

  • Imabaka70
    2432 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    herodes87 wrote: »
    trip1ex wrote: »
    trip1ex wrote: »
    trip1ex wrote: »
    A lot of flawed thinking here. It's a different game than BF1. And you've only seen a few bits and pieces of the game.

    I don't think they've shown off the progression system (archetype system) for each class yet or at least some of you don't realize there is one.

    A lot of the stuff they did in Incursions is going to find its way into BFV. Incursions had like 10-15 kits you could choose from. Those Incursions kits (characters) are going to become subsets of the 4 classes in BFV.

    I think we all recognise that there will be some progression, but it's not "flawed" to estimate the trajectory of things based on the evidence available so far - it's actually the only reasonable estimate possible. If SLRs start off with a huge head start on bolt actions, they are likely to benefit just as much from progression as bolt actions as well.

    It is flawed to jump to conclusions based on seeing next to nothing. And flawed to assume game is BF1 but with no sweetspots.

    True, from what we can tell it's not at all like bf1. I've been posting here and there what I could find so far about the mechanics. One major difference is that it looks like scouts now have damage drop off over distance, and can even become 3hk at range - we found this out by finding some vids where people scored hit markers for 44 damage on body shots at long range. It looks like the body multipliers is a new hybrid scheme compared to bf1. Furthermore the kar98k doesn't reload using a stripper clip even from empty. It's extremely difficult to judge bullet velocity but when I compare footages of bf1 to the gameplay in bf5, I would say it's overall lower velocities in bf5 (but again, take this with a pinch of salt, since this is possibly sensitive to recording parameters, etc).

    So in summary, it's not like in bf1 - the bolt actions look much weaker than they were in bf1.

    lol. This is that flawed thinking I'm talking about.

    At the very least, EA has confirmed via westie and other youtubers that bolt action bullet velocities are lower, no sweet spot, more bullet drop, scope glint remains for bolt actions, and damage in pre-alpha has been confirmed to go down to three hit kill, and that they won't reload with stripper clip.

    Meanwhile, we can see that SLRs have been buffed since BF1. So, I don't think it's flawed thinking to see the obvious fact that bolt action rifles are recieving a hard nerf and gaining nothing in return between BF1 and present-build BFV, when the scout class is already the least used class by DICE's own numbers at this point in BF1.

    So its the End of PTFO Snipers while all the Spray N Prayers gets buffs? Dice is really ruining the WW2 Theme for me. No Kar98k with iron sights and PTFO. Biggest issue of the game.

    Honestly what kine of crap is that? Every gun gets more accurate and bullets fly fast but the Sniper gets his airsoft gun back from BF3-4?

    From the game play I saw the rifle wasn’t bf4 level slow the velocity. It was somewhere in between.
    Watched ravics and stodehs sniping game play and seems like it’s still a viable play style.
    Also it is a early build, with limited options a iron sight version might be avalible later.
  • plliadidas
    124 postsMember Member
    I think they nerfed damage expecting everyone to be running around not at full health because let’s face it the average player isn’t going to run around finding a medic to go back to full health. And they made bigger headshot box to try to compensate for that forgot who said it but they also bumped up damage multiplier for headshots
  • vulpesveritas
    114 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    plliadidas wrote: »
    I think they nerfed damage expecting everyone to be running around not at full health because let’s face it the average player isn’t going to run around finding a medic to go back to full health. And they made bigger headshot box to try to compensate for that forgot who said it but they also bumped up damage multiplier for headshots

    As previously stated, the larger head hitbox applies to all classes, not just scout, nullifying the advantage gain, similarly all classes are benefiting from the fact people will no longer get fully healed without a medic.

    Thus, it remains a net nerf to an already underperforming weapon class.
  • Alphazetamu
    692 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    edited June 2018
    plliadidas wrote: »
    I think they nerfed damage expecting everyone to be running around not at full health because let’s face it the average player isn’t going to run around finding a medic to go back to full health. And they made bigger headshot box to try to compensate for that forgot who said it but they also bumped up damage multiplier for headshots

    That's a possible explanation, but if that is the case, then each time you come up against a medic who can self heal you will be toast, and very quickly you will decide it's just better to play medic, and join the self healing club.

    The headshot box size is indeed some form of compensation, but how much bigger is it really? If it's like 5% bigger then that's not worth writing home about, if it's 50% bigger then it's worth taking into account. Remember also that it means that your head box is bigger as well, so if you're below 75 health or something like that, then the medic SLR can also oneshot you to the head.

    I think we are likely to get iron sights, but that's the damage model will most likely be the same. If you can no longer get the assist counts as kill on a body shot and only have 3hk at range basically means you might as well go play medic instead.
  • DingoKillr
    3516 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    I recently watched a video from 1 of BF top snipers. It is a bad weapons setup when a pistol has better ability to kill at medium range compare to a sniper rifle.
  • herodes87
    1269 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Excatly! Spray N Prayers will be happy finally because Sniper get nerfed to be useless.

    But wait i see already Threads incoming "To much hillhumpers!"
  • Sixclicks
    5073 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Hawxxeye wrote: »
    Sounds familiar? This is the target audience of BF3 and after.

    Too familiar...

    "Why doesn't scout require more skill? It's OP and too easy!"
    *mains Automatico/SMG OP/18*"
  • DingoKillr
    3516 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    It is ahappening on Reddit where comments like sniper are still OP because they can still 1 hit kill with a headshot.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/BattlefieldV/comments/8r1vfl/do_you_feel_pulling_a_headshot_with_sniper_rifle/?st=JIEX1PM0&sh=afbc904c.

  • trip1ex
    4699 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited June 2018
    plliadidas wrote: »
    I think they nerfed damage expecting everyone to be running around not at full health because let’s face it the average player isn’t going to run around finding a medic to go back to full health. And they made bigger headshot box to try to compensate for that forgot who said it but they also bumped up damage multiplier for headshots



    Thus, it remains a net nerf to an already underperforming weapon class.

    Jumping to conclusions. It's a different game. IT's not BF1.
  • CnConrad
    1050 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited June 2018
    trip1ex wrote: »
    plliadidas wrote: »
    I think they nerfed damage expecting everyone to be running around not at full health because let’s face it the average player isn’t going to run around finding a medic to go back to full health. And they made bigger headshot box to try to compensate for that forgot who said it but they also bumped up damage multiplier for headshots



    Thus, it remains a net nerf to an already underperforming weapon class.

    Jumping to conclusions. It's a different game. IT's not BF1.

    That makes no sense. It's a battlefield game, I have played every battlefield game in the last decade. I know what a battlefield game will be.


    Medic rifles with 3 hit kills and zero rbd coupled with 60 damage body shots for bolt action rifle mean that the bolt actions will underperform under all cases except hill humping.


    If dice wishes to encourage hill humping, so be it. But as of right now there is zero reason to get closer than 100 m from any objective with a bolt action.

    This is coming from someone who when he sniped mainly used with the m95. So I didn't lean on the sweet spot crutch, but it did a great job of encouraging objective play for recon.
  • trip1ex
    4699 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    CnConrad wrote: »
    trip1ex wrote: »
    plliadidas wrote: »
    I think they nerfed damage expecting everyone to be running around not at full health because let’s face it the average player isn’t going to run around finding a medic to go back to full health. And they made bigger headshot box to try to compensate for that forgot who said it but they also bumped up damage multiplier for headshots



    Thus, it remains a net nerf to an already underperforming weapon class.

    Jumping to conclusions. It's a different game. IT's not BF1.

    That makes no sense. It's a battlefield game, I have played every battlefield game in the last decade. I know what a battlefield game will be.


    Medic rifles with 3 hit kills and zero rbd coupled with 60 damage body shots for bolt action rifle mean that the bolt actions will underperform under all cases except hill humping.


    If dice wishes to encourage hill humping, so be it. But as of right now there is zero reason to get closer than 100 m from any objective with a bolt action.

    This is coming from someone who when he sniped mainly used with the m95. So I didn't lean on the sweet spot crutch, but it did a great job of encouraging objective play for recon.

    lol perfect example of jumping to wild conclusions.
  • CnConrad
    1050 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    trip1ex wrote: »
    CnConrad wrote: »
    trip1ex wrote: »
    plliadidas wrote: »
    I think they nerfed damage expecting everyone to be running around not at full health because let’s face it the average player isn’t going to run around finding a medic to go back to full health. And they made bigger headshot box to try to compensate for that forgot who said it but they also bumped up damage multiplier for headshots



    Thus, it remains a net nerf to an already underperforming weapon class.

    Jumping to conclusions. It's a different game. IT's not BF1.

    That makes no sense. It's a battlefield game, I have played every battlefield game in the last decade. I know what a battlefield game will be.


    Medic rifles with 3 hit kills and zero rbd coupled with 60 damage body shots for bolt action rifle mean that the bolt actions will underperform under all cases except hill humping.


    If dice wishes to encourage hill humping, so be it. But as of right now there is zero reason to get closer than 100 m from any objective with a bolt action.

    This is coming from someone who when he sniped mainly used with the m95. So I didn't lean on the sweet spot crutch, but it did a great job of encouraging objective play for recon.

    lol perfect example of jumping to wild conclusions.

    How? Honestly asking.

    You say "jumping to wild conclusions" but you provide zero evidence that I am incorrect. You are not even making a point. All evidence points to what I said as being true and your only argument is there may be new magical information we don't know.

    But, you can't even manage to come up with even conjecture of how what I said may not be true.


    Merely stating lol I front of your lack of argument does nothing to help.


    If gun a is better than gun b at all ranges other than extremely long. Logic dictates that gun b will mainly be used at extremely long ranges.
  • trip1ex
    4699 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    CnConrad wrote: »
    trip1ex wrote: »
    CnConrad wrote: »
    trip1ex wrote: »
    plliadidas wrote: »
    I think they nerfed damage expecting everyone to be running around not at full health because let’s face it the average player isn’t going to run around finding a medic to go back to full health. And they made bigger headshot box to try to compensate for that forgot who said it but they also bumped up damage multiplier for headshots



    Thus, it remains a net nerf to an already underperforming weapon class.

    Jumping to conclusions. It's a different game. IT's not BF1.

    That makes no sense. It's a battlefield game, I have played every battlefield game in the last decade. I know what a battlefield game will be.


    Medic rifles with 3 hit kills and zero rbd coupled with 60 damage body shots for bolt action rifle mean that the bolt actions will underperform under all cases except hill humping.


    If dice wishes to encourage hill humping, so be it. But as of right now there is zero reason to get closer than 100 m from any objective with a bolt action.

    This is coming from someone who when he sniped mainly used with the m95. So I didn't lean on the sweet spot crutch, but it did a great job of encouraging objective play for recon.

    lol perfect example of jumping to wild conclusions.

    How? Honestly asking.

    You say "jumping to wild conclusions" but you provide zero evidence that I am incorrect. You are not even making a point. All evidence points to what I said as being true and your only argument is there may be new magical information we don't know.

    But, you can't even manage to come up with even conjecture of how what I said may not be true.


    Merely stating lol I front of your lack of argument does nothing to help.


    If gun a is better than gun b at all ranges other than extremely long. Logic dictates that gun b will mainly be used at extremely long ranges.

    How isn't your post a jump to wild conclusions??!?!? Have you played BFV? Do you know all the details regarding all the classes? Do you know every detail regarding every weapon? Have you secretly been playtesting the game for the past 4 months? ARe you unaware it's pre-Alpha and still 4 months from release? Do you know the classes/weapons and relationships between the classes are not identical to BF1?

    I think the answer to all those is no so to me it is a question of how you could possibly think your post are nothing but massive jumps to wild conclusions!?!??!
  • Hawxxeye
    5382 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited June 2018
    trip1ex wrote: »
    CnConrad wrote: »
    trip1ex wrote: »
    CnConrad wrote: »
    trip1ex wrote: »
    plliadidas wrote: »
    I think they nerfed damage expecting everyone to be running around not at full health because let’s face it the average player isn’t going to run around finding a medic to go back to full health. And they made bigger headshot box to try to compensate for that forgot who said it but they also bumped up damage multiplier for headshots



    Thus, it remains a net nerf to an already underperforming weapon class.

    Jumping to conclusions. It's a different game. IT's not BF1.

    That makes no sense. It's a battlefield game, I have played every battlefield game in the last decade. I know what a battlefield game will be.


    Medic rifles with 3 hit kills and zero rbd coupled with 60 damage body shots for bolt action rifle mean that the bolt actions will underperform under all cases except hill humping.


    If dice wishes to encourage hill humping, so be it. But as of right now there is zero reason to get closer than 100 m from any objective with a bolt action.

    This is coming from someone who when he sniped mainly used with the m95. So I didn't lean on the sweet spot crutch, but it did a great job of encouraging objective play for recon.

    lol perfect example of jumping to wild conclusions.

    How? Honestly asking.

    You say "jumping to wild conclusions" but you provide zero evidence that I am incorrect. You are not even making a point. All evidence points to what I said as being true and your only argument is there may be new magical information we don't know.

    But, you can't even manage to come up with even conjecture of how what I said may not be true.


    Merely stating lol I front of your lack of argument does nothing to help.


    If gun a is better than gun b at all ranges other than extremely long. Logic dictates that gun b will mainly be used at extremely long ranges.

    How isn't your post a jump to wild conclusions??!?!? Have you played BFV? Do you know all the details regarding all the classes? Do you know every detail regarding every weapon? Have you secretly been playtesting the game for the past 4 months? ARe you unaware it's pre-Alpha and still 4 months from release? Do you know the classes/weapons and relationships between the classes are not identical to BF1?

    I think the answer to all those is no so to me it is a question of how you could possibly think your post are nothing but massive jumps to wild conclusions!?!??!
    For some reason this reminds me from dialogue from Ace Attorney games.
    It is easier to prevent a disaster before the game releases based on what data we have and our experience with BF games and how players act in them than to wait until later in the development cycle or after the release where the damage might already be done and DICE might just say " Sorry guys we did not see that coming (derp) we are sorry and we will try to make the next game better on that regard, have fun double/triple taping people with perfectly accurate medic rifles in BFV in the meantime".
    Post edited by Hawxxeye on
  • Alphazetamu
    692 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    So Stodeh made a video of his impressions, and I think he makes a lot of good points.

    One major contribution of his video was to let us know that actually assist counts as kill now starts at 60. That will make a lot of people feel much happier about their contribution being counted into their stats :)

  • Sixclicks
    5073 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited June 2018
    Literally just watch any medic gameplay video. It's a fast and easy triple tap to the body. Even if it were a 4 hit kill at longer ranges, it's still faster than a scout rifle unless they get a headshot. It's plainly obvious exactly how it will play out. As I've said, the only way this can possibly remain balanced is if scout has some sort of semi-auto rifle to keep up. And I don't mean like the stupid M1903 Experimental.

    And besides that, in a game where there's no health regen, being able to heal yourself essentially trumps any other gadget imo.
  • Alphazetamu
    692 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    edited June 2018
    Sixclicks wrote: »
    Literally just watch any medic gameplay video. It's a fast and easy triple tap to the body. Even if it were a 4 hit kill at longer ranges, it's still faster than a scout rifle unless they get a headshot. It's plainly obvious exactly how it will play out. As I've said, the only way this can possibly remain balanced is if scout has some sort of semi-auto rifle to keep up. And I don't mean like the stupid M1903 Experimental.

    Quite right, and self-heal is probably the best ability in the game now.
  • CnConrad
    1050 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    trip1ex wrote: »
    CnConrad wrote: »
    trip1ex wrote: »
    CnConrad wrote: »
    trip1ex wrote: »
    plliadidas wrote: »
    I think they nerfed damage expecting everyone to be running around not at full health because let’s face it the average player isn’t going to run around finding a medic to go back to full health. And they made bigger headshot box to try to compensate for that forgot who said it but they also bumped up damage multiplier for headshots



    Thus, it remains a net nerf to an already underperforming weapon class.

    Jumping to conclusions. It's a different game. IT's not BF1.

    That makes no sense. It's a battlefield game, I have played every battlefield game in the last decade. I know what a battlefield game will be.


    Medic rifles with 3 hit kills and zero rbd coupled with 60 damage body shots for bolt action rifle mean that the bolt actions will underperform under all cases except hill humping.


    If dice wishes to encourage hill humping, so be it. But as of right now there is zero reason to get closer than 100 m from any objective with a bolt action.

    This is coming from someone who when he sniped mainly used with the m95. So I didn't lean on the sweet spot crutch, but it did a great job of encouraging objective play for recon.

    lol perfect example of jumping to wild conclusions.

    How? Honestly asking.

    You say "jumping to wild conclusions" but you provide zero evidence that I am incorrect. You are not even making a point. All evidence points to what I said as being true and your only argument is there may be new magical information we don't know.

    But, you can't even manage to come up with even conjecture of how what I said may not be true.


    Merely stating lol I front of your lack of argument does nothing to help.


    If gun a is better than gun b at all ranges other than extremely long. Logic dictates that gun b will mainly be used at extremely long ranges.

    How isn't your post a jump to wild conclusions??!?!? Have you played BFV? Do you know all the details regarding all the classes? Do you know every detail regarding every weapon? Have you secretly been playtesting the game for the past 4 months? ARe you unaware it's pre-Alpha and still 4 months from release? Do you know the classes/weapons and relationships between the classes are not identical to BF1?

    I think the answer to all those is no so to me it is a question of how you could possibly think your post are nothing but massive jumps to wild conclusions!?!??!

    Well I have played every battlefield for the past 10 years. I can aggregate how the classes and guns felt for all of them. I know that accuracy recoil and ttk are all of premium importance.

    I have been able with, very good consistency, estimate how balance will be on launch based off of videos.

    Of course it's still in alpha, hence the feedback so hopefully they can make changes while they are easy prior to launch.


    I loved medic guns in bf1. But thus far it seems like medic got a huge boost in both survivability and offense. For everyone but the run and gunners I really done see any reason to play with anything else but medic.


    The not healing to full is the biggest buff medic can get.
  • CnConrad
    1050 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    So Stodeh made a video of his impressions, and I think he makes a lot of good points.

    One major contribution of his video was to let us know that actually assist counts as kill now starts at 60. That will make a lot of people feel much happier about their contribution being counted into their stats :)



    He is saying some things like everyone played scout in bf1. It was the least used class.

    The only saving Grace is the assist counts as kill being at 60% that will be a big help.

    Btw being that good, it's kind of hard for him to speak for the regular player. He is easily 5+ times as good of a sniper as a normal player is.
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