Goodbye sweet spot :D

Comments

  • Alphazetamu
    692 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    Me, I'm looking forward to scouts actually getting into the action more and actively PTFOing with the team.
    I agree with a lot of what you say, but just on this point, I don't think the current nerf to scout primaries and also to pistol swapping is going to have the effect you're hoping for. The bads who have given up the fight will still fall back to camping, no matter what, because they're primary motivation is to not die, whereas a scout up close will get wrecked by just about every enemy weapon (except for the twitch headshotters, which you've said already you don't like as a basis of gameplay)
    Nerfing *all* primaries, no. Just the snipe-focused rifles. Pistol swap speed nerf doesn't help either, no.
    I agree with you, but sadly that's not what we've seen happen :|
    It's pre-alpha. There's a lot of time to make suggestions. If I'm in the Alpha, I'll certainly be giving feedback.

    Can I send you my xmas wish list to add on? ;)
  • b2tchwood
    1073 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited June 2018
    They’ll have to do something to keep sniper rifles on the competitive and useful side. I’d like to see a better variety of sniper rifles where you should be almost be made to play aggressively or reserved with them. In previous titles there wasn’t much to stop you playing the same way with every rifle. Eg. scout elite, FYJS in BF4 with reduced headshot range.
  • herodes87
    1269 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    In terms of kills to use ratio,
    Assaults rank 1.11
    Medics rank 1.04
    Scouts rank 0.78
    Supports rank 0.81

    Or, in other words, scouts are the least effective for time spent class in game, by the numbers.

    So yeah, Scouts need a buff, not the nerf they seem to be getting.
    It's not that simple. Yes, scouts are the least effective. But is kills per minute the best measure of *effective*? And what is the *reason* for the low kills with scout rifles?

    In my humble opinion the reason is not that the rifles need a buff, it's because of who chooses scout and why.

    The reason people think scout is so heavily used is, *often*, near the end of the game when they are losing and can't push objectives they look at the scoreboard and see half the team is scouts.

    I believe there's two reasons for this. 1) Noobs pick a sniper rifle because they can get some 'safe' kills. They get very few kills, but they die less. 2) When blueberries begin to get smashed in heavy combat on objectives, they pick a sniper rifle and back off making the situation worse.

    Scouting is of course also popular with some good players, but in nowhere near the numbers of medic and assault, because they are more challenging to get the best out of in a wide variety of situations.

    Now, in BF5, does DICE want to encourage more sniping by making the rifles better? Or do they want to encourage scouts that join in more with the team by giving them group gadgets and utility ability and nerfing the long-range capability of sniper rifles?

    Me, I'm looking forward to scouts actually getting into the action more and actively PTFOing with the team.

    Bring back Recon. Scouts should be *ahead* of the squad or at least flanking, not 500m behind them.

    In BF1 the Scout rifles were more Made for PTFO. You could get Close and kill Hellriegel users even after TTK 2.0.

    I don't See that happen here.
  • VindictiV_V
    1347 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited June 2018
    CnConrad wrote: »
    So Stodeh made a video of his impressions, and I think he makes a lot of good points.

    One major contribution of his video was to let us know that actually assist counts as kill now starts at 60. That will make a lot of people feel much happier about their contribution being counted into their stats :)



    It was the least used class.

    STOP saying that bs. Scout class was NEVER the least used class. Go to https://battlefieldtracker.com/bf1/weapons and sort by Time Spent. You'll see it's actually support class that has ALWAYS been the least played class.

    Edit: as of today June 15th, scout was actually the second most used class.

    No, but it is the second least used class historically, and the second least effective in kills.

    And let's look at kills... 25% Assault, 22% Medic, 15% Scout, 13% Support (the remaining 10% is split between sidearms, grenades, and gadgets. Numbers are also inflated as they also count assists-count-as-kills as kills)

    As far as time spent, they're also second least used, with 22.5% used by assault (SMG+Shotgun), 21% used by medics, 19% scout, 16% support. (as above, other things you can carry affect use time)

    In terms of kills to use ratio,
    Assaults rank 1.11
    Medics rank 1.04
    Scouts rank 0.78
    Supports rank 0.81

    Or, in other words, scouts are the least effective for time spent class in game, by the numbers.

    So yeah, Scouts need a buff, not the nerf they seem to be getting.
    First of all, I addressed the lies saying scout class is the least played class.

    Second, scout rifles need a buff in bf1? What kind of logic is that. You do know the reason time spent per kill is a lot higher with snipers is because
    1)You have so many noobs hillhumping in the distance so obviously their TTK isn't great even though their KD is most probably in the posivite.
    2)So many noobs trying to imitate "pro" YTbers. I mean look at the more known ones such as Strodeh and FabianChills for example. They only play scout and they look damm good doing it which makes noobs want to be like them but, as they completely suck, they lower the general Kill per Time Spent. Hell, I pick up a infantry scout rifle to punish hillhumpers and I win sniper 1v1s about 9 times out of 10 simply because they just suck (stay prone, don't move so easy headshots and/or just suck at aiming).
    3)Good players are punished in CQC for using scout class thx to the ridiculous buff to LMGs and SMGs with TTK2.0 patch. Scout rifles are fine, it's just that LMGs and SMGs are OP and reward braindead magdump so PTFOing scouts is a dead breed sadly.
    4)Lots of good scouts kill their target with a rifle body shot followed by a side arm shot or two or a melee weapon for in immediate CQC which obviously lowers the amount of kills registered for the rifles.

    Also, good players demolished with the scout class as evidently showed by good player such as Strodeh and Fabian. Hell, even Strodeh, a scout main, says sweet spot needs to go.
  • Kunstula
    414 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    Since they appear to be heading towards more skillful play and more manual input instead of automated stuff, I'd say in order to make sniper rifles become able to compete they should completely remove automatic recoil settling for all weapons and increase overall recoil, this will effectively offset the removal of RBD as you need to take more time to keep your aim on target after every single bullet that you fire.
    Also increasing sniper rifles max damage and minimum damage to something in the 99-60 range, varying for high caliber SR's that have slower RoF to smaller caliber SR's with faster RoF ofc.

    Slowing down pistol swap time is plain dumb, the whole point of sidearms is that you can draw them quick, otherwise you might as well reload your primary weapon. I suspect they listened to the ridiculous complaints in BF1 about scouts being too effective at close range because of too fast sidearm draw speed.
  • rainkloud
    548 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member


    I was hesitant about the removal of the sweet spot but it looks like player are able to achieve a reasonable level of success.
  • disposalist
    8505 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Me, I'm looking forward to scouts actually getting into the action more and actively PTFOing with the team.
    I agree with a lot of what you say, but just on this point, I don't think the current nerf to scout primaries and also to pistol swapping is going to have the effect you're hoping for. The bads who have given up the fight will still fall back to camping, no matter what, because they're primary motivation is to not die, whereas a scout up close will get wrecked by just about every enemy weapon (except for the twitch headshotters, which you've said already you don't like as a basis of gameplay)
    Nerfing *all* primaries, no. Just the snipe-focused rifles. Pistol swap speed nerf doesn't help either, no.
    I agree with you, but sadly that's not what we've seen happen :|
    It's pre-alpha. There's a lot of time to make suggestions. If I'm in the Alpha, I'll certainly be giving feedback.
    Can I send you my xmas wish list to add on? ;)
    Alpha is always under NDA I think, but of course, what anyone says in this forum is going to be in the minds of testers when they test.

    That's one reason these forums (when used for actual game-related, constructive discussion) are so useful.
  • trip1ex
    4698 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    A rifle doesn't have to compete with other guns.

    Back in BF42 the engineer had a rifle and it didn't compete with the Assault class at distance or the Medic class up close or the Sniper rifle at long distance.

    But as a class the engineer was still fun because the gun was serviceable enough to let you help out in firefights. And then you had mines, the wrench and explosives. That stuff is what made up for the gun.
  • bran1986
    5660 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    I honestly didn't have an issue with the sweetspot, at least it gave good scouts who wanted to help take objectives do so. You are always going to have useless hillhumpers it just comes with the class. I also have a feeling that one of the archetypes for scout will be a marksman or rifleman archetype with access to semi automatic rifles.
  • disposalist
    8505 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    bran1986 wrote: »
    I honestly didn't have an issue with the sweetspot, at least it gave good scouts who wanted to help take objectives do so. You are always going to have useless hillhumpers it just comes with the class. I also have a feeling that one of the archetypes for scout will be a marksman or rifleman archetype with access to semi automatic rifles.
    The hump on a damage chart is fine, as long as it doesn't reach 100. Even 99 would have made it acceptable.

    Absolutely would love scouts to get nearer, but handing then easy OHKs wasn't great.
  • BaronVonGoon
    6737 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Really glad the sweet spot is gone. Even if everything else was to be left in the same state as BF1, this change by itself should elevate BF5 into a more skillfull, less scruby/casual and embarrassingly noob-friendly game than BF1. Well done Dice!
  • herodes87
    1269 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Really glad the sweet spot is gone. Even if everything else was to be left in the same state as BF1, this change by itself should elevate BF5 into a more skillfull, less scruby/casual and embarrassingly noob-friendly game than BF1. Well done Dice!

    Lol yeah but Spray n pray Medic guns was Skill or what?
  • Sixclicks
    5073 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Really glad the sweet spot is gone. Even if everything else was to be left in the same state as BF1, this change by itself should elevate BF5 into a more skillfull, less scruby/casual and embarrassingly noob-friendly game than BF1. Well done Dice!

    Except for every other class which thus far looks significantly easier to play now that the there's no random bullet deviation and recoil seems pretty tame.
  • vulpesveritas
    114 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    Really glad the sweet spot is gone. Even if everything else was to be left in the same state as BF1, this change by itself should elevate BF5 into a more skillfull, less scruby/casual and embarrassingly noob-friendly game than BF1. Well done Dice!

    As the previous two commenters have noted, Assaults, Medics, and Supports have received buffs and are net easier to use by "noobs", at least on PC, as RBD has been removed, and recoil has to be extreme to truly negatively effect PC. Furthermore, without RBD, moderately skilled and above players will find gunplay easier with such weapons on all platforms, even with the higher recoil.

    Meanwhile, bolt action rifles are only seeing reductions to their performance across the board, and getting nothing in return. Heck, scouts only really have spawn beacons going for them, but I don't think the ability to place a spawn beacon makes up for the poor performance elsewhere.

    (I am aware they get flares, but the support class is also getting flares now, so..)
  • xxDicemanxx
    418 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    Imabaka70 wrote: »
    The watching stodehs sniping gameplay the damage seemed decent for a center hit. Also looks like velocity is still roughly the same.

    I can accept the loss of sweetspot, as long as it’s not airsoft style sniper rifles like bf4

    This.

    I'm fine with the sweetspot leaving (always thought it was kinda cheesy) but the sniper rifles needed the same velocity as BF1. BF4's sniper rifles were terrible.

    And that is why BF4 was such a great game. The snipers couldn't dominate the game.

    then you never played rush with a good recon
  • Mexican4l1f3
    48 postsMember Member
    Sixclicks wrote: »
    Really glad the sweet spot is gone. Even if everything else was to be left in the same state as BF1, this change by itself should elevate BF5 into a more skillfull, less scruby/casual and embarrassingly noob-friendly game than BF1. Well done Dice!

    Except for every other class which thus far looks significantly easier to play now that the there's no random bullet deviation and recoil seems pretty tame.

    Recoil will be incresed before the game releases
  • DingoKillr
    3514 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Sixclicks wrote: »
    Really glad the sweet spot is gone. Even if everything else was to be left in the same state as BF1, this change by itself should elevate BF5 into a more skillfull, less scruby/casual and embarrassingly noob-friendly game than BF1. Well done Dice!

    Except for every other class which thus far looks significantly easier to play now that the there's no random bullet deviation and recoil seems pretty tame.

    Recoil will be incresed before the game releases

    I heard the same but a 0.1 increase on 2 guns is a recoil increase too
  • Sixclicks
    5073 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Sixclicks wrote: »
    Really glad the sweet spot is gone. Even if everything else was to be left in the same state as BF1, this change by itself should elevate BF5 into a more skillfull, less scruby/casual and embarrassingly noob-friendly game than BF1. Well done Dice!

    Except for every other class which thus far looks significantly easier to play now that the there's no random bullet deviation and recoil seems pretty tame.

    Recoil will be incresed before the game releases

    I hope so - significantly. Because the recoil I've seen thus far is hardly existent. Especially considering there's no RBD. Getting rid of RBD requires either significant recoil to prevent guns from becoming laser beams, or very steep damage dropoff to the point that it's simply not viable at all to use a gun beyond its intended range.
  • Lykosia
    204 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Ronin9572 wrote: »
    So basically every scout rifle will be the same? That's lame!

    When you play a round of operations where you see couple scouts with 50+ kills and you still have the most headshots with 8 using BAR, you know there's a problem.
  • b2tchwood
    1073 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Lykosia wrote: »
    Ronin9572 wrote: »
    So basically every scout rifle will be the same? That's lame!

    When you play a round of operations where you see couple scouts with 50+ kills and you still have the most headshots with 8 using BAR, you know there's a problem.
    To be fair that’s a poor argument for the sweet spot, I can use the m95 get 50 kills but not have killed anyone. The damage model on that weapon is nuts. Assist counts as kills for days. I’m not an advocate of sweet spot though.

    I would say scout needs a buff and I think a nice way of doing it is by removing the revive if you get a HS from a sniper rifle only.
Sign In or Register to comment.