"Deeper gunplay and mechanics"... Why is scope glint in this game then?

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ShinoobyIsOP
61 postsMember Member
I though they just announced it was going to be a return to deeper skill based mechanics. This is the stark opposite of that sentiment.

Before you disagree, hear me out:

I 100% agree and campaigned for the removal of the "sweetspot" mechanic since its inception. Im glad its gone, it was terrible. I also dont like "hill humping" snipers that camp at base or dont actively move with their squad to cap flags or provide both a close spawn point and overwatch on an objective, or just cap it, and I agree there should be mild/moderate incentives to stop the hillhumping playstyle unless its tactically the best choice like defending a rush objective.

....But now with the sweetspot mechanics removal, is there a need to have a flashlight attached to my face at all times? Its the worst mechanic in the game, still. There is no "getting good" or compensating for this giant flaw. You can NEVER be sneaky or elusive, just always immediately spotted and shot at before youve even had a chance to take an accurate shot. Infinitely frustrating as a sniper that plays the objective.

Flashlightface removes skill from the game, because there is no situational awareness required to spot a sniper and just avoid them. I wanted deeper gunplay for every class and vehicle in the game, not every class excluding the recon kit... And thats the impression Ive got from this reveal.

SOLUTION: Why dont you just make glint only show up on your sniper past a certain range? 200-250-300 meters? Enough to stop or disincentive snipers camping too far away from the action, and still enough for run-n-gunners to spot and avoid distant sniper fire, but not enough to actively punish and reveal every recon player the second they put their gun to their face, let alone line up and predict and lead a headshot on running enemies on uneven terrain, with a 2.5 second hold breath mechanic too. All these extra things have made sniping that much harder than when it was universally loved back in BFBC2, and you keep gimping the class with each iteration, only to offset it with "sweetspot" mechanics that are unrewarding for both sniper and enemy.


Just to tack on two other concerns about the class aswell.

1) First I just hope this time recon can have some good gadgets, because BF1 was very bad in this area. (Apart from the spot flare), every gadget was either 100% useless, or fully incentivised camping to the absolute maximum extreme, with camping shield, placeable camping friends, and tripwire campathon anti gank systems, tickle bullets, and camping periscope to watch the battle play out as you cook smores from behind a shield. Nobody wants snipers to play like this, and you have also tried to incentivise snipers to not play like this aswell, but then you give the class these gadgets and attach a "shoot me" sign to their face, that can only be overcome by CAMPING at extreme ranges.. Please give the class C4, spawn beacon, or just anything aggressive and useful to someone who is trying to follow a squad around.

2) Too early to tell, but I am concerned about the route taken for customization. All I saw was odd facepaints, a claw hand, a ninja outfit? (in one of jack frags videos I think), people with orange pants, a cowboy duster, some alternate webbing and uniform variations... But no ghille suit? The most Iconic thing about WW2 snipers was the adoption on the Ghille suit... But Its not in the game? This is such a giant letdown to see. Maybe im wrong and it is in the game and they havent showed it yet, but I find that very unlikely.


My hype is at rock bottom here, these were all the things I wanted for the recon class in a WW2 setting. The other classes look great and have seen solid improvements across the board, im just cut that wasnt extended to all classes. I hope you have a change of heart on these issues, Cheers.

Comments

  • Alphazetamu
    692 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    Basically I totally agree with OP. They say they want to make the game more tactical and remove gimmicks like doritos, so they should get rid of scope glint too.

    The scope glint pushes scouts further back unless they pick infantry variants. It doesn't punish hillhumpers at 300m.
  • ShinoobyIsOP
    61 postsMember Member
    Because lying prone in a bush back at your spawn with your rifle permanently scoped in isn't exactly deep or skill based

    You didn't read my post.
  • Alphazetamu
    692 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    Personally I despise the whole scout/recon class as most people who play it don’t really contribute much.

    Anything to discourage people from laying on a hillside is fine by me.

    Every game everyone moans about hillhumpers, but at the same time every game, DICE gimps the scout class so that it can't compete in the medium to close range, and don't give it enough of a real team play mechanic beyond spotting which nobody gives any credit for. Don't blame the people playing the class, blame the lack of effort to make the class worth playing.
  • blackaddR
    349 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    So you’re moaning about snipers camping on hills but you want the scope glare to go? I think the scope glare is there to put snipers off sniping from one position all the time. If you get 3 kills, one of those 3 will know where you are and come after you, guaranteed.

    Problem is, if you’re constantly looking through your scope, you’re going to give away your position, in some cases without having fired a shot. It’s not impossible but you can spot the enemy without the need to look through scope..
  • Alphazetamu
    692 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    blackaddR wrote: »
    So you’re moaning about snipers camping on hills but you want the scope glare to go? I think the scope glare is there to put snipers off sniping from one position all the time. If you get 3 kills, one of those 3 will know where you are and come after you, guaranteed.

    The killcam gives away your position, so anyone from any class who camps will get hunted down. This would still be the case if they remove glint.
  • ShinoobyIsOP
    61 postsMember Member
    blackaddR wrote: »
    So you’re moaning about snipers camping on hills but you want the scope glare to go? I think the scope glare is there to put snipers off sniping from one position all the time. If you get 3 kills, one of those 3 will know where you are and come after you, guaranteed.

    Problem is, if you’re constantly looking through your scope, you’re going to give away your position, in some cases without having fired a shot. It’s not impossible but you can spot the enemy without the need to look through scope..

    No need to open with ad hominems, I'm here willing to listen to other peoples opinions about the topic.

    I dont care about snipers on a hill, I care about health and direction of this class for the people that dont play like that, and how the class is being constantly gimped for those of us that want to play both aggressively and also as part of a squad going for objectives. It is annoying having an entire gadget roster full of junk or items that incentivise camping, and it is beyond frustrating having what is, in essence, an orange dorito that will actively appear on your face as soon as you aim down sight, on a class that needs the most time to line up a shot before firing.

    DICE has removed dorito warfare from the game, giving every class a certain level of concealment. But has decided to drastically gimp recon again (by removing sweetspot and reducing velocity across the board, both which I am happy about), but has left this class with a distinct and frustrating disadvantage, that player skill can not overcome.

    Glint, as a mechanic, has clearly pushed snipers to further ranges, it has not really punished anyone camping far away. It has just entirely prevented people from using the scopes they like to play with since BF3, and has been getting progressively worse since then to the point that snipers in bf1 have to literally remove all optics attached to their weapon in order to not have this annoying feature. Hill humpers do not care and are not affected by this, because they are too far away for any other classes weapons to affect them.

    Having scope glint only activate past a certain range would fix this 100%. Do you disagree?
  • Alphazetamu
    692 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    I agree the scout should be encouraged to get into the combat with everyone else (I loved playing aggro scout in BF1 and BF4), but DICE (and every other game company) seem to think that even in a squad/team/coop/objectives-based game encouraging a quarter of the players to lone-wolf it from the edge of the map is fine.

    This. Basically, each class should have a teamplay role, but DICE haven't figured out how to make scout relevant in a team game. I'm skeptical that the spotting gadget will be used very much, especially if it's only going to be worth 25 points or something, in which case everyone will prefer to just try to get a kill.
  • solid_jordan
    7 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Agreed it doesn't make any sense to still have scope glint in the game. But that's far from being the only paradox in the game: DICE wants to slow the game down by making revives longer and by having to physically interact with medkits and ammo pouches, yet at the same time the game is still very fast paced and TTK seems absurdly high for a game that is supposed to be more tactical than previous games.

    Also it seems the assault class is way too effective against infantry at the moment as the STG44 melts people at all ranges judging by the gameplay on YouTube.

    As for the scout class, it seems good so far although it clearly sucks outside of long range, which I guess is how it's supposed to be. The loss of the sweet spot mechanic isn't a big deal since most sweet spot kills in BF1 were based on luck rather than strategic positioning. The bullet velocity seems faster in BFV which is a good thing and should make the class more competitive at those longer ranges. The head-hitbox seems to be bigger too which is definitely gonna help for headshots. So all in all, while the scope glint is still **** as it will (as always) punish the aggressive recons more than the hillhumpers, the sniper class seems pretty balanced so far.
  • Alphazetamu
    692 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    From Stodeh's clips, it looks like scout rifles now drop to 60 damage beyond 50m or so, so long range sniping is being penalised also by lower damage.
  • Stormblade31
    108 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Personally I despise the whole scout/recon class as most people who play it don’t really contribute much.

    Anything to discourage people from laying on a hillside is fine by me.

    Every game everyone moans about hillhumpers, but at the same time every game, DICE gimps the scout class so that it can't compete in the medium to close range, and don't give it enough of a real team play mechanic beyond spotting which nobody gives any credit for. Don't blame the people playing the class, blame the lack of effort to make the class worth playing.

    In this case, I think BF4 did a rather nice job making the Scout/recon class just as useful in close range as it is long range, with things like the TUG-S and Spawn beacon + the option for a automatic carbine.
    If DICE gives the scout class access to SMGs and perhaps some deployable gadgets that encourage aggressive play, I think that'll be plenty enough incentive.
  • Alphazetamu
    692 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    Personally I despise the whole scout/recon class as most people who play it don’t really contribute much.

    Anything to discourage people from laying on a hillside is fine by me.

    Every game everyone moans about hillhumpers, but at the same time every game, DICE gimps the scout class so that it can't compete in the medium to close range, and don't give it enough of a real team play mechanic beyond spotting which nobody gives any credit for. Don't blame the people playing the class, blame the lack of effort to make the class worth playing.

    In this case, I think BF4 did a rather nice job making the Scout/recon class just as useful in close range as it is long range, with things like the TUG-S and Spawn beacon + the option for a automatic carbine.
    If DICE gives the scout class access to SMGs and perhaps some deployable gadgets that encourage aggressive play, I think that'll be plenty enough incentive.

    Yes, I'm mindful that these are still possibilities at this stage - we don't know how exactly things will work. I've not yet seen any confirmation that scouts can use smgs.
  • blackaddR
    349 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    The only way they could have done a better job with battlefield 1, is get rid of the scout class, have a standard rifleman class with infantry variant rifles and useful equipment in close combat and have a sniper class that obviously had just the marksman and sniper rifles, a long with their own gadgets, allowing only 2 per team.

    I agree that sniping is abused in BF1 but removing the glint isn’t going to change anything. You would just have people complaining they can’t see them then. Like everything with Dice, they’re between a rock and a hard place with any decision they make that will in effect, alter game play.
  • BGisG0d
    41 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Scope glint is a counter to sniper/scout class. How far can you see in the midst of battle? not far, scope glint is there to prevent a squad of snipers camping an entrance to objective with impunity.

    Beside, it's already easy to deny scope glare with scope in/out repeatedly in BF1.
  • disposalist
    8280 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    blackaddR wrote: »
    The only way they could have done a better job with battlefield 1, is get rid of the scout class, have a standard rifleman class with infantry variant rifles and useful equipment in close combat and have a sniper class that obviously had just the marksman and sniper rifles, a long with their own gadgets, allowing only 2 per team.

    I agree that sniping is abused in BF1 but removing the glint isn’t going to change anything. You would just have people complaining they can’t see them then. Like everything with Dice, they’re between a rock and a hard place with any decision they make that will in effect, alter game play.
    Yup.

    This is pretty much what I always wanted. Scout was great, but the sniper aspect should have been an elite kit pickup.
  • Alphazetamu
    692 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    Well, I don't see what's wrong with using a scope and trying to be close as well. At the end of the day, the bad players that spawn camp are just bad, and will be bad no matter how much carrot and stick you hit them with. In the meanwhile, all the nerfs disproportionately hurt those of us who work hard to be good team players. Plenty of us scout players on these forums have stats that would make the oh-so-superior medics and assault mains quite envious, yet we're on the receiving end of a lot of anti-scout hate for no good reason.
  • theONEFORCE
    2843 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    blackaddR wrote: »
    The only way they could have done a better job with battlefield 1, is get rid of the scout class, have a standard rifleman class with infantry variant rifles and useful equipment in close combat and have a sniper class that obviously had just the marksman and sniper rifles, a long with their own gadgets, allowing only 2 per team.

    I agree that sniping is abused in BF1 but removing the glint isn’t going to change anything. You would just have people complaining they can’t see them then. Like everything with Dice, they’re between a rock and a hard place with any decision they make that will in effect, alter game play.

    I'm very happy that the scout OHK from everywhere meta is going away. I hope the scouts that thought they were good at FPS games because they cheesed the sweet spot AA mechanics in BF1 go away as well but I'm sure they'll be the shot gun bads we'll have to deal with in BFV.
  • disposalist
    8280 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    blackaddR wrote: »
    The only way they could have done a better job with battlefield 1, is get rid of the scout class, have a standard rifleman class with infantry variant rifles and useful equipment in close combat and have a sniper class that obviously had just the marksman and sniper rifles, a long with their own gadgets, allowing only 2 per team.

    I agree that sniping is abused in BF1 but removing the glint isn’t going to change anything. You would just have people complaining they can’t see them then. Like everything with Dice, they’re between a rock and a hard place with any decision they make that will in effect, alter game play.
    I'm very happy that the scout OHK from everywhere meta is going away. I hope the scouts that thought they were good at FPS games because they cheesed the sweet spot AA mechanics in BF1 go away as well but I'm sure they'll be the shot gun bads we'll have to deal with in BFV.
    There will always be cheese to squeeze, but at least those shotgun baddies will be taking bullets for us on the objectives ;)

    To be honest though the sweet spot mechanic was hardly abused. I don't think I saw any vids or know anyone that used it intentionally. It was just a very annoying WTF moment when it happened incidentally. Even as a scout it was a WTF moment because I usually had already taken the next shot knowing I'd missed the headshot to find they were already on the ground hehe.
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