Stop ruining the TTK!

rv112

With the second alpha it seems they have tweaked the TTK to a bad level. I don't understand why, the TTK was nearly perfect in the first build. Now max. damage drops from 27 to 20. Why DICE, just why? LEave it as it was and let us have some fun. We don't want these ToysRus guns as in BF1.

llPhantom_Limbll

Upset assault kiddo spotted. Have to get gud instead of dropping people half across the map with 3 shots.
Thanks Dice.

rv112

If you get shot, you did something wrong. Thats it. With a high TTK to slow down good players and thats bad.

disposalist

They turned down TTK? What's the source?

Cool, though. It was a bit of a ridiculous random death CoD-style before. Especially in conjunction with the all-weapon laser accuracy.

xxxCoOlBr33zExxx

Don’t knock it until you have actually tried out the new changes.

-CB

GENERALONGDONG

rv112 wrote: »

With the second alpha it seems they have tweaked the TTK to a bad level. I don't understand why, the TTK was nearly perfect in the first build. Now max. damage drops from 27 to 20. Why DICE, just why? LEave it as it was and let us have some fun. We don't want these ToysRus guns as in BF1.

And you know this how exactly?

CastielCoat

Most **** tweak ever, 600 rpm weapon - 3 headshot-kill close, 4 headshot-kill on damage drop distance, 7.92 mm weapon though.

warslag

I have a feeling I'm going to be raving over the next Closed Alpha... raving mad.

VBALL_MVP

TTK2.0 killed BF1. If they are doing something to lengthen TTK so it's not like what they did in the current version of BF1, I'm all for it.

theONEFORCE

Dice doesn't make changes = Rage
Dice does make changes = Rage

I'm surprised they even care anymore. They do a second Alpha to test more things and guess what, people are getting their feathers rustled. No matter which direction they go in a bunch of people are going to cry like little you know whats so what does it even matter which direction they choose to go in?

Sixclicks

I'm glad they made the TTK slower if that's true (haven't really looked into it). It was way too fast and easy to kill enemies in the first alpha. Especially at ridiculously long ranges with the STG 44. Hopefully they also made guns have more recoil.

How do you know though? Was there patch notes for the upcoming 2nd alpha somewhere?

Edit: Never mind, I think I found the info.

I don't see anything about increasing TTK though... where did you see that?

VBALL_MVP

theONEFORCE wrote: »

Dice doesn't make changes = Rage
Dice does make changes = Rage

I'm surprised they even care anymore. They do a second Alpha to test more things and guess what, people are getting their feathers rustled. No matter which direction they go in a bunch of people are going to cry like little you know whats so what does it even matter which direction they choose to go in?

So true. Dont forget "BFx was the best they should make BFV like that" only to get "BFV is just a reskin".

Oh the drama.

rainkloud

Sixclicks wrote: »

I don't see anything about increasing TTK though... where did you see that?

Did you see this below? If so you should be able to interpret the data but if you can't I can explain.

Here is a detailed overview of the weapon changes.

EMP:
Decreased the max damage range from 12 to 8 meters.
Decreased the fall off range from 50 to 40 meters.
Increased the min damage to 14.3.
Added 1 additional magazine on Spawn, one additional magazine on resupplying.
Developer comment: The SMG’s got an increase in effectiveness in short range combat, while being less effective on longer ranges.

MP40:
Decreased the max damage range from 12 to 8 meters.
Decreased the fall off range from 50 to 40 meters.
Increased the min damage to 14.3.
Added 1 additional magazine on Spawn, one additional magazine on resupplying.
Developer comment: The SMG’s got an increase in effectiveness in short range combat, while being less effective on longer r[anges.

STG 44:
Decreased max damage from 27 to 20.
Increased max damage range from 11 to 20 meters.
Increased damage fall off range from 50 to 60 meters.
Decreased min damage from 17 to 16.7.
Added 1 additional magazine on Spawn, one additional magazine on resupplying.
Developer comment: The STG44 now has become less powerful on short range, but more powerful on medium range.

Bren Gun:
Increased max damage range from 11 to 20 meters.
Increased damage fall off range from 50 to 60 meters.
Decreased min damage from 17 to 16.7.

MG34:
Increased max damage range from 11 to 20 meters.
Increased min damage from 17 to 20.
Increased damage fall off range from 50 to 60 meters.

Gewehr 43:
Decreased max damage range from 26.5 to 15 meters.
Increased damage fall off range from 51.5 to 60 meters.
Decreased min damage from 36 to 34.

KAR 98:
ncreased max damage from 80 to 90.
Decreased max damage range from 20 to 8 meters.
Decreased damage falloff range from 80 to 60 meters.
Decreased min damage from 60 to 55.
Lowered bullet’s exit velocity from 700 to 600.
Developer comment: We’ve slowed down the bullet speed for the KAR 98 Bolt Action Sniper Rifle to create more bullet drop. This makes the player compensate for longer ranges more than before.

Walther P-38:
Increased magazine amount on spawn from 4 to 8, and 10 when resupplying.
Increased max damage range from 10 to 15 meters.
Decreased max damage from 30 to 25 meters.
Increased min damage from 15 to 16.7.
Decreased damage falloff range from 70 to 30 meters.

Sixclicks

rainkloud wrote: »

Sixclicks wrote: »

I don't see anything about increasing TTK though... where did you see that?

Did you see this below? If so you should be able to interpret the data but if you can't I can explain.

Here is a detailed overview of the weapon changes.

EMP:
Decreased the max damage range from 12 to 8 meters.
Decreased the fall off range from 50 to 40 meters.
Increased the min damage to 14.3.
Added 1 additional magazine on Spawn, one additional magazine on resupplying.
Developer comment: The SMG’s got an increase in effectiveness in short range combat, while being less effective on longer ranges.

MP40:
Decreased the max damage range from 12 to 8 meters.
Decreased the fall off range from 50 to 40 meters.
Increased the min damage to 14.3.
Added 1 additional magazine on Spawn, one additional magazine on resupplying.
Developer comment: The SMG’s got an increase in effectiveness in short range combat, while being less effective on longer r[anges.

STG 44:
Decreased max damage from 27 to 20.
Increased max damage range from 11 to 20 meters.
Increased damage fall off range from 50 to 60 meters.
Decreased min damage from 17 to 16.7.
Added 1 additional magazine on Spawn, one additional magazine on resupplying.
Developer comment: The STG44 now has become less powerful on short range, but more powerful on medium range.

Bren Gun:
Increased max damage range from 11 to 20 meters.
Increased damage fall off range from 50 to 60 meters.
Decreased min damage from 17 to 16.7.

MG34:
Increased max damage range from 11 to 20 meters.
Increased min damage from 17 to 20.
Increased damage fall off range from 50 to 60 meters.

Gewehr 43:
Decreased max damage range from 26.5 to 15 meters.
Increased damage fall off range from 51.5 to 60 meters.
Decreased min damage from 36 to 34.

KAR 98:
ncreased max damage from 80 to 90.
Decreased max damage range from 20 to 8 meters.
Decreased damage falloff range from 80 to 60 meters.
Decreased min damage from 60 to 55.
Lowered bullet’s exit velocity from 700 to 600.
Developer comment: We’ve slowed down the bullet speed for the KAR 98 Bolt Action Sniper Rifle to create more bullet drop. This makes the player compensate for longer ranges more than before.

Walther P-38:
Increased magazine amount on spawn from 4 to 8, and 10 when resupplying.
Increased max damage range from 10 to 15 meters.
Decreased max damage from 30 to 25 meters.
Increased min damage from 15 to 16.7.
Decreased damage falloff range from 70 to 30 meters.

No, I didn't see any details like that on the page I looked at.

Sounds like they made the KAR 98 quite a lot less effective. Which sucks since I think it was one of the worst weapons of the alpha.

At least the G43 shouldn't be able to 3 hit kill to the foot at any range anymore with the slightly reduced min damage.

It sounds like they wanted to differentiate the effectiveness of SMGs and Assault rifles by making it clear the assault rifles are better suited to medium range while the SMGs are better for close range. Although reducing the range of sniper rifles then does't make much sense. So you'll do less damage with them at long ranges and have a slower traveling bullet and thus more apparent bullet drop too. It's like they want scouts to play in close to medium ranges while still giving them weapons that kill significantly slower than any assault rifle or SLR. Doesn't really make much sense to me. I guess the only nice thing is 90 damage at point blank to the chest instead of 80 damage. Although I don't know how much actual difference that will make since your pistol already does over 20 damage at that range. Meaning it's still the same kill time for a close ranged bolt action hit plus a pistol finisher shot.

Overall, not a fan of the Kar 98 change at all. The 600 m/s muzzle velocity means we're going back to BF4 like paintball sniper rifles. The STG 44 was too powerful, so I'm fine with that change. The one extra BTK at close ranges should help SMGs to shine in their intended role a little more. I don't see any mention of recoil changes, hopefully they made some.

bran1986

It is a great change and I'am glad DICE made it. Assault rifles should be a jack of all trades gun, not the best at anything but good at everything. They shouldn't be outgunning smgs in cqb or beating slrs or bolt actions at range. The ease of use with the assault rifle and the high rpm of them will make them quite competitive at these ranges without being overpowered like they were in the first alpha. There are other classes and weapon types that exist outside of assault and assault rifles.

Sixclicks

One downside of the reduced min damage of the G43 that I forgot to mention is it'll no longer be a 2HK with one headshot and one chest shot at its max damage dropoff anymore. Now it'll do 98 damage in that situation. Before its max damage dropoff range it'll still be a 2HK with at least one headshot though. They could fix that by changing the headshot multiplier for SLRs with a 34 min damage to 1.95 from 1.90 if they wanted it to still be a 2HK with one headshot and one chest shot at long range while keeping limb shots at 4HK at long range. Otherwise, at long ranges you'll have to land at least 3 shots regardless of if you get a headshot or not.

bran1986

Sixclicks wrote: »

One downside of the reduced min damage of the G43 that I forgot to mention is it'll no longer be a 2HK with one headshot and one chest shot at its max damage dropoff anymore. Now it'll do 98 damage in that situation. Before its max damage dropoff range it'll still be a 2HK with at least one headshot though. They could fix that by changing the headshot multiplier for SLRs with a 34 min damage to 1.95 from 1.90 if they wanted it to still be a 2HK with one headshot and one chest shot at long range while keeping limb shots at 4HK at long range.

That sucks.

Sixclicks

bran1986 wrote: »

Sixclicks wrote: »

One downside of the reduced min damage of the G43 that I forgot to mention is it'll no longer be a 2HK with one headshot and one chest shot at its max damage dropoff anymore. Now it'll do 98 damage in that situation. Before its max damage dropoff range it'll still be a 2HK with at least one headshot though. They could fix that by changing the headshot multiplier for SLRs with a 34 min damage to 1.95 from 1.90 if they wanted it to still be a 2HK with one headshot and one chest shot at long range while keeping limb shots at 4HK at long range.

That sucks.

Yeah, I'm a fan of the 4HK limb shots, but not the 3HK with a headshot.

bran1986

Sixclicks wrote: »

bran1986 wrote: »

Sixclicks wrote: »

One downside of the reduced min damage of the G43 that I forgot to mention is it'll no longer be a 2HK with one headshot and one chest shot at its max damage dropoff anymore. Now it'll do 98 damage in that situation. Before its max damage dropoff range it'll still be a 2HK with at least one headshot though. They could fix that by changing the headshot multiplier for SLRs with a 34 min damage to 1.95 from 1.90 if they wanted it to still be a 2HK with one headshot and one chest shot at long range while keeping limb shots at 4HK at long range.

That sucks.

Yeah, I'm a fan of the 4HK limb shots, but not the 3HK with a headshot.

Yeah the limb shot wouldn't bother me since it would reward aim and make headshots matter more, but 3hk with a headshot really sucks. Changing the headshot multiplier would be a good trade off.

edit: Maybe this is due to some balancing with other guns in the class we don't yet know about? A Geweher 43 fire rate is pretty quick(300 rpm?) maybe slower firing slrs will have a bigger damage output for balance, including headshot and body shot range?

Sixclicks

bran1986 wrote: »

Sixclicks wrote: »

bran1986 wrote: »

Sixclicks wrote: »

One downside of the reduced min damage of the G43 that I forgot to mention is it'll no longer be a 2HK with one headshot and one chest shot at its max damage dropoff anymore. Now it'll do 98 damage in that situation. Before its max damage dropoff range it'll still be a 2HK with at least one headshot though. They could fix that by changing the headshot multiplier for SLRs with a 34 min damage to 1.95 from 1.90 if they wanted it to still be a 2HK with one headshot and one chest shot at long range while keeping limb shots at 4HK at long range.

That sucks.

Yeah, I'm a fan of the 4HK limb shots, but not the 3HK with a headshot.

Yeah the limb shot wouldn't bother me since it would reward aim and make headshots matter more, but 3hk with a headshot really sucks. The Gewher 43 max damage range is only 15 meters now, IIRC a Mondragon in BF1 can two hit kill with a headshot up to 40 meters. Changing the headshot multiplier would be a good trade off.

edit: Maybe this is due to some balancing with other guns in the class we don't yet know about? A Geweher 43 fire rate is pretty quick(300 rpm?) maybe slower firing slrs will have a bigger damage output for balance, including headshot and body shot range?

Under 60 meters (minus maybe a couple of meters due to decimal damage) it'll still be a 2HK with a headshot. It's only at 60 meters or more (where it does 34 damage) that it'll be a 3HK with a headshot. Basically, it only becomes a 3HK when it drops down below 34.5 damage. Which will likely be around maybe 58 meters or so (estimate).

(34.5 * 1.9) + 34.5 = 100.05 damage

So I guess it'll still be stronger than the 2HK range of the Mondragon.

bran1986

Sixclicks wrote: »

bran1986 wrote: »

Sixclicks wrote: »

bran1986 wrote: »

Sixclicks wrote: »

One downside of the reduced min damage of the G43 that I forgot to mention is it'll no longer be a 2HK with one headshot and one chest shot at its max damage dropoff anymore. Now it'll do 98 damage in that situation. Before its max damage dropoff range it'll still be a 2HK with at least one headshot though. They could fix that by changing the headshot multiplier for SLRs with a 34 min damage to 1.95 from 1.90 if they wanted it to still be a 2HK with one headshot and one chest shot at long range while keeping limb shots at 4HK at long range.

That sucks.

Yeah, I'm a fan of the 4HK limb shots, but not the 3HK with a headshot.

Yeah the limb shot wouldn't bother me since it would reward aim and make headshots matter more, but 3hk with a headshot really sucks. The Gewher 43 max damage range is only 15 meters now, IIRC a Mondragon in BF1 can two hit kill with a headshot up to 40 meters. Changing the headshot multiplier would be a good trade off.

edit: Maybe this is due to some balancing with other guns in the class we don't yet know about? A Geweher 43 fire rate is pretty quick(300 rpm?) maybe slower firing slrs will have a bigger damage output for balance, including headshot and body shot range?

Under 60 meters (minus maybe a couple of meters due to decimal damage) it'll still be a 2HK with a headshot. It's only at 60 meters or more (where it does 34 damage) that it'll be a 3HK with a headshot. Basically, it only becomes a 3HK when it drops down below 34.5 damage. Which will likely be around maybe 58 meters or so (estimate).

(34.5 * 1.9) + 34.5 = 100.05 damage

So I guess it'll still be stronger than the 2HK range of the Mondragon.

Yeah you are right, I misread the info lol.