Bolt action rifles nerf is stupid

Comments

  • trip1ex
    5283 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Loqtrall wrote: »
    trip1ex wrote: »
    Sixclicks wrote: »
    It's a terrible decision. They'll be worse than BF4 rifles.

    It's BF4 velocity with less than half the range before it drops to its min damage plus more drop and no ability to OHK to the chest within 12.5 meters like every rifle in BF4 could. It's pretty much worse in every way.

    IT's all relative. I'm sure the performance of the other weapons from other classes are also worse than they were in BF4. Nevermind there are so many other variables to consider like the bigger headshot hit box in BFV. Different game design equals different balance between weapons.


    Meh, the STG seemed to perform just as good as ARs from BF4, and smgs seemed to perform even better outside of thier 'intended' range than pdws in BF4.

    That's not to mention those already near slower than BF4 muzzle velocities for rifles in BF5 also suffer from bullet drag past a certain distance, slowing the rounds down even further. Something nonexistent in BF4.
    trip1ex wrote: »
    Sixclicks wrote: »
    trip1ex wrote: »
    Sixclicks wrote: »
    It's a terrible decision. They'll be worse than BF4 rifles.

    It's BF4 velocity with less than half the range before it drops to its min damage plus more drop and no ability to OHK to the chest within 12.5 meters like every rifle in BF4 could. It's pretty much worse in every way.

    IT's all relative. I'm sure the performance of the other weapons from other classes are also worse than they were in BF4. Nevermind there are so many other variables to consider like the bigger headshot hit box in BFV. Different game design equals different balance between weapons.


    The headshot hitbox is the same as BF4's. Which was also bigger than BF1's.

    Ok. And so we are getting rifles that aren't as easy to hit with in BFV as in BF1. Makes sense to me.

    I think a better claim would be rifles in BF5 won't be as easy to hit people with than in any other BF game.

    There comes a point when the round from the rifle moves so slowly its almost a joke. I literally just yesterday watched a guy snipe at a target 2,200 yards away with an open sight Swiss rifle from the 1950s, and the time between the shot and point of impact at 2,200 yards (2,011 meters) was just over a second. The average rifle muzzle velocity in BF4 was lower than that on modern, advanced rifles, and even engaging people from 400m away would result in a travel time longer than 1 second.

    To put that in perspective, there are airsoft rifles that fire tiny plastic balls at 300+ meters per second, compare that to some of the lowest muzzle velocities for rifles we've gotten in BF, like the CS5 that had a 400m/s velocity, and a 300m/s velocity when suppressed (AND IT DEFAULTED WITH THE SUPRESSOR). That's compared to its real life counterpart that fires rounds over 700m/s even while suppressed, nearly or over 2x faster than in the game.

    There were literally rifles in BF games that shot actual high caliber rounds at the speed of airsoft bbs. That's a joke. The AEK, for instance, had a faster velocity than the CS5 in all configurations.

    And we're speaking about rifles with velocities EVEN SLOWER than that.

    They'll be worse than in any bf title. Even in 1942 through 2142, rifles didn't have non hs OHK capability, but the velocities on them were pretty damn fast with barely any leading needed outside of extremely long range. And in every other BF game aside from bf1, rifles had very slow velocities but made up for that with the capability to OHK in cqb.

    BF5, on the other hand, will have velocities slower on average than any other BF game, and the complete and total lack of a non hs OHK on a full health enemy at any range. On top of minimum damage thats pathetic for a single action weapon, and bullet drag that will make rounds even slower over time. Rifles won't be able to compete effectively in cqb or mid range, and at longer ranges bullets will move so slowly that you could literally side step shots coming your way (you could even do this in BF4).

    It's nonsense that I'd have to lead someone by multiple feet to hit them with a high powered rifle at a mere 75m away. The "laser beams" in BF1 came from the fact rifles in BF1 actual function like rifles instead of historically based airsoft guns.


    What matters is how they work within the context of the game they are making. It doesn't matter how they work within other BF games or the real world. It's not a sim and this isn't BF4 nor BF1 etc. Last time I checked the real world doesn't have internet and other lag and doesn't have RAM limitations as to how big maps can be and the real world doesn't care about weapon balance. Also in the real world, armies aren't made up of 50% snipers. And who wants to be pegged off by snipers from 2000m in this game? I sure don't.

    I actually would put my money on DICE knowing what they are doing because they have actually playtested these changes.

    I also put my money on DICE to tweak numbers as needed.

    They obviously saw a need to tweak the velocity of the BFV sniper rifle. If you played the Alpha or watched some Youtube videos You could, in the Alpha, rapidly drop enemy after enemy. This wasn't 18 months after the game launched. This was in the Alpha. My take is if this was left unchecked while also reducing the threat of the STG44 and G43 then the sniper rifle would become too dominant. Thus they had to also take something off the sniper rifle. The reduction in velocity is not even 15%.
  • Sixclicks
    5075 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited August 2018
    Made a correction to one of my earlier comments. You can actually regenerate around 48 health. So it could take up to a maximum of 7 sniper chest shots at the min damage for you to die if you wait behind cover between each time getting hit so that you can regen 48 health.

    41m 32s - 48 regen (14 to 62)

    1h 3m 17s - 49 regen (19 to 68)

    1h 4m 11s - 48 regen (52 to 100)

    2h 7m 22s - 48 regen (36 to 84)

    2h 7m 39s - 46 regen (37 to 83)

  • CptMIFF
    141 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    So it should be exactly like BF1? Or what do you all suggest?

    Look what BF1 has become, there are more snipers than everything on the maps.
    Open areas with no where to cover, thats the main issue I have.
    But it depends of the map layout to be honest.. Havent tried the alpha yet so I dont know how good each weapon are
  • Sixclicks
    5075 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited August 2018
    CptMIFF wrote: »
    So it should be exactly like BF1? Or what do you all suggest?

    Look what BF1 has become, there are more snipers than everything on the maps.
    Open areas with no where to cover, thats the main issue I have.
    But it depends of the map layout to be honest.. Havent tried the alpha yet so I dont know how good each weapon are

    I don't think they need to be as strong as BF1 snipers, but they shouldn't be weaker in every way compared to BF4 snipers.

    As for the other weapons, you can snipe snipers with the STG 44. One major power dynamic that snipers in BF1 had to their advantage was that other class's weapons, except in some cases medics, didn't have the accuracy to engage them at long range. Even medic weapons had some inherent inaccuracy at long range. Assault couldn't even touch you. Now that there's no random bullet deviation, assaults, medics, and support players are all significantly more effective across a much wider range.

    The min damage nerf to the G43 from 36 to 34 will make it require 1 more hit if you're shooting the enemy in the leg at long ranges, but it'll still be a 3 hit kill to the chest at any range. The min damage nerf to the STG 44 means you'll have to land 1 more hit at long ranges if all your bullets hit their legs. The chest shot BTK of the STG 44 at long range remains the same.

    This is a clip of me killing an enemy sniper from long range with the STG 44. He was at full health.

  • Ace-Cardd
    238 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    edited August 2018
    So it should be exactly like BF1? Or what do you all suggest?
    In first alpha sniper rifles were significantly nerfed in comparison to Bf 1. They had slow rof, slower muzzle velocity, much less damage and no ability to ohk(only headshot). So They were much worse. I can adapt to first alpha but now when DICE made them useless I don't even want to buy this game because it will be unbalanced trash.
  • CptMIFF
    141 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    There is open fields, there is no cover. So many maps with just hills and sand dunes and fields of endless joy snowfields.

    Yeah, everyone should have glint,low velocity, massive bullet drop, be stationary for accuracy, limited ammo and slow reloads.

    Maybe it does a lot of damage? :P You should try cs:go, theres an "auto-sniper" there.

  • trip1ex
    5283 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited August 2018
    CptMIFF wrote: »
    So it should be exactly like BF1? Or what do you all suggest?

    Look what BF1 has become, there are more snipers than everything on the maps.
    Open areas with no where to cover, thats the main issue I have.
    But it depends of the map layout to be honest.. Havent tried the alpha yet so I dont know how good each weapon are

    They should do what they are doing. Playtest the game. Tweak it. Playtest again. Tweak it. etc.

    Overall I think snipers shouldn't be the bread and butter class of a team in this game. Their role should be more of a support role. And thus should be designed as such.








  • CPTN-Cr4ptastic
    1704 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Ace-Cardd wrote: »
    Many players (like the commenter above you) don't want the scout class to be good at their role under any circumstance.

    Unfortunately, with such an immature community full of hatred for one class, we have no chance of getting a good game.

    Give Dice some credit. They do listen to the community, but only so much. Its their game and they know it. They will make the Sniper class satisfying for those who enjoy that type of play whether the cry babies like it or not.
  • AmplifiedOrganic
    1 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    See, I understand the need for balance, but they're going the wrong direction with it.

    I can totally dig them making any creative decision they want, as long as it's narrative or cosmetic. When it comes to the gunplay, I want my weapon to feel like it should, like it does in real life. Give the guns their real-life stats, and leave the damage at a realistic scale. I want super deadly near-one-shot snipers, and LMGs that do the same damage per bullet than an assault rifle (considering they often share the same ammo IRL). The guns should be real, the rest is just fun fluff.

    Balance it with character speed (support is slower than assault/medic, scout perhaps same speed or between), gadget availability, hell, even perk accessibility. Have a damn party with it, but the best part of any FPS is how the guns *feel*. If I'm supposed to be slinging a high-caliber sniper-rifle or beastly hog of an LMG around, and feel like I'm pinging pellets off my enemies, it ruins the feel of the entire game.

    I mean ****, I'ma play it anyways, but if they mess it up, watch that initial player count go down after the first 2 months. As is the custom.

    See you all on the battlefield.
  • Mystriall
    497 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    DingoKillr wrote: »
    CptMIFF wrote: »
    So it should be exactly like BF1? Or what do you all suggest?

    Look what BF1 has become, there are more snipers than everything on the maps.
    Open areas with no where to cover, thats the main issue I have.
    But it depends of the map layout to be honest.. Havent tried the alpha yet so I dont know how good each weapon are

    Rifles in BF1 have the 3rd most kill primary weapon.
    If you are in the open with no cover who fault is it? Yours, use what you have.

    I do wonder if the rules that apply to sniper rifles was applied to other class like Semi-Auto and Assault Rifles, how they would react.
    Like having glint, low velocity, massive bullet drop, be stationary for accuracy, limited ammo and slow reloads.

    As for ideas how about less drag and add spread instead, a velocity that works on the internet, a sweet spot of 10 to 20m(does not have to be 1HK).

    People are crying about the sniper being ruined and nerfed. It's not. it wasn't bad in the first alpha, i doubt it's bad in the second alpha. I will be testing it later today. i might just make a video aswell.

    As for the rules, they apply in different variations to all guns and classes, so let's not act like the sniper is the class that's getting all these limitations and restrictions. It's only natural that the bullet drop is bigger at larger distances, it's only natural that the further away you are from the target, the more movement effects the aim/bullets direction, EVERY class has to be stationary for accuracy, the fact that other classes can hit a target 10-15 meters away whilst moving alittle doesn't mean they are accurate or hitting as well as if they had been standing still. And they would not be able to do so if it was 100-150 meters. No class can move and aim effectively at the distance, so this isn't sniper spesific. Every class has limited ammo (with exception of support).

    And let's talk about restrictions. I played alot with the support and the MG34. Now there's a weapon with restrictions! mainly because of it massive recoil.

    1. You need to be stationary to be accurate, in fact unless your bipod is deployed, you can't hit someone 5 meters away, even if you're stationary (if you're lucky you can get a hit, i didn't get any).
    2. The weapon is not that accurate even with bipod deployed at longer range. it also does little damage so most of the time even if you get a number of hits in the enemy is able to get into cover before you can finish them.
    3. because it cannot be used without the bipod, it's ineffective at close range, it took probably 2 seconds from i saw an enemy, untill i could fire at him (jumping down to the ground and then it took 1 sec before i could start firing).
    4. as you are forced to be completely stationary, you are an easy target, especially for snipers. it also takes time to get up and out of cover whilst bipod is deployed, so you are sluggish whilst in that position.

    So the weapon is only effective at medium range and requires good cover. How are those restrictions compared to the snipers who have to wait for 0.5 sec before pulling the trigger, and adjust for drag/bulletdrop?

    Not to mention that there will likely be more rifles than just the KAR98K and likely we will see rifles with both more and less damage output. So again, why are we complaining at this point?

    I will be using the MG34 in situations when it is best suited, and other weapons in other situations. As any other class will be changig weapons depending on the situation.

    So let's not say that a little more bullet drop and the damage output of 1 gun is going to ruin the whole class or game.

  • disposalist
    8984 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    The nerfing of high-powered rifles to make them balanced makes them feel ridiculous.

    They should just remove sniper completely. Maybe make it a powerful kit pickup.

    It doesn't work when not nerfed to nothingness and it's silly when it's nerfed to nothingness. The reason is *it doesn't work having dozens of snipers running around in a battle*.

    They are just an annoyance to everyone but themselves.
  • trip1ex
    5283 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Sniping seemed the same to me. It was pretty easy to hit enemies.
  • azelenkin0306
    565 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    I didn't play Alpha, but I think that removing OHK (non-headshot) capability from Sniper rifles is already enough to make them hard to use.

    Also, I am wandering did DICE forget that this game is also played on consoles, where the average accuracy is a little bit lower? If BA rifles are bad on PC, then I cannot even imagine how bad they will be on consoles.

    And, they should really stop making changes to the weapons until there will be some feedback from consoles.
  • disposalist
    8984 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    trip1ex wrote: »
    Sniping seemed the same to me. It was pretty easy to hit enemies.
    I was still being killed randomly and annoyingly from great distance...
  • ninjapenquinuk
    2249 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    If we agree the problem with snipers is purely to do with the numbers of them within a game, then maybe they should just make the 'sniper' a squad perk like the the V1, and let the squad leader bestow it on someone?
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