Still sick and tired

KillsChills
1 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
This is not a discussion about bans, it is a discussion about being a responsible company.

I'm so sick and tired of EAs unaccountability regarding Punkbuster bans.
Since yesterday I am being kicked from BF4 by Punkbuster, for no apperent reason and when I look at the PB-log it says "GLOBAL PunkBuster GUID BAN b4242a39".

I have issued a ticket to Even Balance, but as said in many threads, both here and other places, they never answer or are several weeks about it.

Today I called EA and they said "We can't do anything about it". What? EA are customers at Even Balance so who else are to do something about a very well known problem than EA. EA should contact their supplier and tell them to fix their problem.

If I were selling cars and there was a general problem, that my costomers complained about, then it would be my obligation to contact the supplier and tell them to fix the problem. But EA just says "We can't do anything about it".

----

And before anybody tells me that I have been busted while cheating, forget it. I am 50 years old and don't find any amusement in cheating neither you or my self from the full experience from as game.

Take respo

Comments

  • Il-Scavenger-lI
    732 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    edited September 13
    Since yesterday I am being kicked from BF4 (...)
    (...) they never answer or are several weeks about it. (...)

    They will respond within two weeks. Furthermore that they do not give the player the banreason does not mean there is none. PB is not required to share the evidence or their methods with anyone but their contractor EA. EB is hired by EA to do the dirty work EA doesn't want to deal with in the first place.
    .
    Be sure you had 2FA enabled, no one else used your machine, hacked your mail to get your 2FA cause your mail did not have 2FA, used your phone to get your 2FA etc etc. Unless you are behind your PC 24/7 there is a chance someone used it. People saying that a virus caused it: think twice about how you maintain your PC. EB is no tech support and aren't responsible for things that corrupt the OS.
    .
    If all that is ruled out then wait for a response for said timeframe. False bans do get lifted, always.
    .
    If the ban is not removed, EA does not have to take responsibility for anything as they did not ban you. Nor did EB take away your ability to use the product from EA. PB is disabled on some servers and singleplayer works. Buying the game doesn't grant you that all servers are available at all times (ToS). Safe to say is that you do not buy the game but a license to use it which can be revoked at any moment without warning. This is with pretty much all games, not only published by EA. Legally it is all quite solid. Buying a new game is your only option.
    Post edited by Il-Scavenger-lI on
  • KillsChills
    1 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Hi Il-Scavenger-lI
    Thanks for your reply. I don't need any explaination, I just want to be able to play the game again.

    2fa is enabled, but just to be sure, I have set a new password on my EA account.
    I am the only person that have access to my pc.

    But again, this is not about the ban in it self. It is about EAs unaccountability regarding Punkbuster bans in general.
    You say EA does not have to take responsibillity, i disagree. I am the customer in their business. Who they have contracts with beside that, isn't my concern. But right now it is a fact that their contract with EB has put me in a situation where and can't play the game I have bought license for.
  • Carbonic
    562 postsMember, Moderator, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Moderator
    Just a quick few points:
  • Il-Scavenger-lI
    732 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    edited September 13
    Carbonic wrote: »
    Just a quick few points:

    Wow, that guide looks great! May I link to it from outside of the Battlefield forums? Will give the proper credit of course.
  • DIRTYGreeny
    623 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield Member
    Hmm, looks like a ban discussion to me no matter how you paint it.
    I guess evenbalance think you have been busted and it's not anyone else's fault that others may think you have been too, it is an official anticheat for BF4 after all.
  • BosenBerry01
    5 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Member
    edited September 13
    I have to say I am in exactly the same position. I have all the security enabled on my account and there is no evidence of hacking, nor that I have ever cheated, and certainly no virus etc. It seems these complaints are becoming more frequent to me. Is it possible that Evenbalances algorythm is not kept up to date, and therefore becoming unreliable, now that EA seem to have dropped them?

  • Il-Scavenger-lI
    732 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    edited September 13
    I have to say I am in exactly the same position. I have all the security enabled on my account and there is no evidence of hacking, nor that I have ever cheated, and certainly no virus etc. It seems these complaints are becoming more frequent to me. Is it possible that Evenbalances algorythm is not kept up to date, and therefore becoming unreliable, now that EA seem to have dropped them?

    Or maybe they work better then ever and people result into flaming on forums. We can not tell. Only thing that happens right now is that a company that is contracted to remove unwanted accounts, removes accounts.
    .
    PB is no algorithm and new programs are manually added to the PB detection list on daily bases. If those are the correct programs, time will tell. As said earlier, no one here can help.
    .
    I never understood the need for people to post about a ban in the first place. Only if you have a very, very clear indication of what caused it, you may have a slight chance of being taken serious. Without that, you will only lose more credibility. Especially if the forum isn't made to discuss bans and the PB appeal process has been explained countles of times.
    Post edited by Il-Scavenger-lI on
  • BosenBerry01
    5 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Member
    edited September 14

    I never understood the need for people to post about a ban in the first place. Only if you have a very, very clear indication of what caused it, you may have a slight chance of being taken serious. Without that, you will only lose more credibility. Especially if the forum isn't made to discuss bans and the PB appeal process has been explained countles of times.

    I thought exactly the same.

    People who recognise my username, will know I am the first to complain about cheats, bad language or even rude usernames. I will always log out of a server if the language gets too bad. I don't recall ever being kicked, apart from to make room for admins. I'm not actually sure how I could be a more honest player.

    What you must consider, is that there is the possibility I am truthful and that I am trying to highlight that there is a fault in the system in which there appears no reliable way to appeal against. I will miss the game as I use it to distract from pain.

    Please accept my apologies KillsChills I didn't mean to hijack your thread.

    Post edited by BosenBerry01 on
  • Il-Scavenger-lI
    732 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    edited September 14

    I never understood the need for people to post about a ban in the first place. Only if you have a very, very clear indication of what caused it, you may have a slight chance of being taken serious. Without that, you will only lose more credibility. Especially if the forum isn't made to discuss bans and the PB appeal process has been explained countles of times.

    I thought exactly the same.

    People who recognise my username, will know I am the first to complain about cheats, bad language or even rude usernames. I will always log out of a server if the language gets too bad. I don't recall ever being kicked, apart from to make room for admins. I'm not actually sure how I could be a more honest player.

    What you must consider, is that there is the possibility I am truthful and that I am trying to highlight that there is a fault in the system in which there appears no reliable way to appeal against. I will miss the game as I use it to distract from pain.

    Please accept my apologies KillsChills I didn't mean to hijack your thread.

    Problem with any anti-cheat is the following: they will never give full insight in their detections. This to hinder the development for workarounds. In BF4 this isn't different for both FF and PB. I personally find FF even more vague, as who say to an algorithm what is okay and what is not? Who says that all the data they add to that self learning stuff is the correct data? Heck I've gotten a ban by them too, which turned out it was caused by an exploit. Never heard anything back about it from EA, other then that my ban was lifted after 3 days (there are no 3 day FF bans in BF4, they are either 24h, one week or longer). Later some dev saying it "wasn't an exploit but it is fixed now". I do not know what else it was, but it was targeted... Meanwhile quite a few high ranked players were affected in a similar way. There is not really a standardized method to appeal to FF, other then EA saying to mail to the ToS team with some basic info.
    .
    With PB the appeal method is a ticket. In that ticket you can add any credible information that might suggest that a certain program causes a kick. As all the stuff they add to their detections is added manually, they can identify an issue by comparing their manually added programs to the supposed falsely blacklisted program and re-assess. PunkBuster works like a basic anti-virus, as they mention on their site. A file is either detected or not. PB is not random and does certainly not look at player statistics. Their violation kicks stop when the detected program is removed. So that would be a first thing to look for: changed programs in a period of about a month before the issue started.
    .
    At the end, both FF and PB are contracted to do the dirty work for EA. Contracted in the sense that everything they do is first agreed upon by the company they are hired by and every piece of evidence can be verified by their contractor if needed. A section about false bans will be in the contracts for sure.
    .
    In short: a forum post will not help. Especially not here, as these forums are not made for discussing bans. Any post you make about a ban without solid evidence that it is false will be refuted as mad outcries from someone who got busted. That is why I had to keep my ban secret for the first two days to get the evidence needed. After we had that evidence and sent it to someone with good ties to EA we were able to post about it without losing any credibility. Now I maybe had an ideal situation because of the amount of contacts and some insider knowledge which comes with volunteering for a 3rd party AC. But a similar approach applies: follow the appeal instructions exactly and if you are really innocent, try to gather evidence first before going public. Doing it the other way around will limit your chances of people cooperating and taking your complaints serious. The page @Carbonic made is a really good collection to verify PB issues and has links to any of the relevant sources. In addition to that I made a collection of steps to try and help getting the right info for in your ticket: https://bf4db.com/PB-Evenbalance-support
    Post edited by Il-Scavenger-lI on
  • -Antares65z
    1217 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    Generally where this is smoke there is fire. If there is something legitimately wrong with PB, why aren't more complaining about it?
  • Il-Scavenger-lI
    732 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    edited September 14
    Generally where this is smoke there is fire. If there is something legitimately wrong with PB, why aren't more complaining about it?

    Indeed, PB needs a trigger and is not random. If something commonly used is the trigger it will be found.
  • BosenBerry01
    5 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Member
    I want to thank Il-Scavenger-lI for taking the time to type such an informative response to this thread. Really helpful. I'm glad there are people like you on these forums.

    In response to Antares65z, I think the complaints are made, but quickly the thread becomes locked, but if you read them in a different light, you will see that its possible there is an issue here where on occassion, honest players are being banned, with no way of showing they are not cheats (I also think there are a lot of cheats by the way and something is needed to limit them). I hope that isn't the reason I've seen quite a drop in server's recently.

    I've just bought BF1 and about to try it. One factor behind my decision was the lack of PB with this newer game - not because I don't see the need for anti-cheat - I do. Its just I've read that BF1 doesn't use the PB one, so I'm hopeful it will be more accurate and easier to correct if or when a clear mistake has happened. If Evenbalance ever read my ticket, perhaps they will see there has been a mistake somewhere, in which case I'll happily return to BF4 and put it down to bad luck.
  • Il-Scavenger-lI
    732 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    edited September 14
    I want to thank Il-Scavenger-lI for taking the time to type such an informative response to this thread. Really helpful. I'm glad there are people like you on these forums.

    In response to Antares65z, I think the complaints are made, but quickly the thread becomes locked, but if you read them in a different light, you will see that its possible there is an issue here where on occassion, honest players are being banned, with no way of showing they are not cheats (I also think there are a lot of cheats by the way and something is needed to limit them). I hope that isn't the reason I've seen quite a drop in server's recently.

    I've just bought BF1 and about to try it. One factor behind my decision was the lack of PB with this newer game - not because I don't see the need for anti-cheat - I do. Its just I've read that BF1 doesn't use the PB one, so I'm hopeful it will be more accurate and easier to correct if or when a clear mistake has happened. If Evenbalance ever read my ticket, perhaps they will see there has been a mistake somewhere, in which case I'll happily return to BF4 and put it down to bad luck.

    If you need any help regarding the steps in that tutorial I made feel free to PM me on these forums. Best of luck with your situation.
  • Carbonic
    562 postsMember, Moderator, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Moderator
    edited September 14
    Seems all the information about how to handle a Punkbuster ban has been given and discussed. Closing thread.
This discussion has been closed.

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!