Battlefield V - A game with identity crisis

«13
zynthetikk
10 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Member
edited September 14
After playing the beta it's obvious that Battlefield V is having an identity crisis.
The game doesn't know if it wants to be Forgotten Hope 2 or Battlefield heroes.

For example:
Tanks have accurate movement, sights and speed but automatic weapons have almost no recoil at all and switching between weapons is super fast.
Weapons have skill trees that look like they came straight from an MMO but random deviation has been removed to make the game more realistic.
Every action puts you into a 1-3 seconds animation but you have unlimited stamina for sprinting and movement.
Reviving someone take forever and healing/ammo needs to be picked up. But you only have to wait 9 seconds to spawn after dying.

These are just a few, but everywhere I find these odd desicison to make the game more realistic in some aspects and do a complete 180 on other.
The only reason for this is that DICE doesn't know what battlefield is suppose to be anymore. Is it suppose to be hardcore or casual? Realistic or arcady?
Right now they are just throwing everything into a blender and hoping it doesn't taste like ****.

So DICE, get your **** together, make a choice of what kind of game you want this to be and then stick with it.
Post edited by zynthetikk on

Comments

  • Hawxxeye
    1595 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    This video of that guy seems to address the change in what kind of playing the BF games encouraged over time and how BFV might be trying too forcefully to go back to older style (while still being inconsistent about it imho
  • zynthetikk
    10 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Member
    edited September 14
    Hawxxeye wrote: »
    This video of that guy seems to address the change in what kind of playing the BF games encouraged over time and how BFV might be trying too forcefully to go back to older style (while still being inconsistent about it imho

    That video really hits the nail on the head

    Maybe they should just split the game into 2 modes
    Realistic mode and Arcade mode.
  • CptDuffy
    22 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    zynthetikk wrote: »
    After playing the beta it's obvious that Battlefield V is having an identity crisis.
    The game doesn't know if it wants to be Forgotten Hope 2 or Battlefield heroes.

    For example:
    Tanks have accurate movement, sights and speed but automatic weapons have almost no recoil at all and switching between weapons is super fast.
    Weapons have skill trees that look like they came straight from an MMO but random deviation has been removed to make the game more realistic.
    Every action puts you into a 1-3 seconds animation but you have unlimited stamina for sprinting and movement.
    Reviving someone take forever and healing/ammo needs to be picked up. But you only have to wait 9 seconds to spawn after dying.

    These are just a few, but everywhere I find these odd desicison to make the game more realistic in some aspects and do a complete 180 on other.
    The only reason for this is that DICE doesn't know what battlefield is suppose to be anymore. Is it suppose to be hardcore or casual? Realistic or arcady?
    Right now they are just throwing everything into a blender and hoping it doesn't taste like ****.

    So DICE, get your **** together, make a choice of what kind of game you want this to be and then stick with it.

    I also watched the video and it has hit the nail on the head but you really didn’t most of the things you have mentioned seem like minor issues atm. As a Bf2 all the way through till now veteran I have to say I’m happy with the direction they’ve gone in this one.
    I’m hoping for a gradual return to tactical team play and frankly I’ll be happy to see the back of the Rambo one man army that’s been plaguing us since BF4 one of the main reasons I was never able to stomach that release
  • parkingbrake
    938 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Member
    zynthetikk wrote: »
    After playing the beta it's obvious that Battlefield V is having an identity crisis.
    The game doesn't know if it wants to be Forgotten Hope 2 or Battlefield heroes.

    (snip)

    So DICE, get your **** together, make a choice of what kind of game you want this to be and then stick with it.

    Interesting post, you make some good points. I also noticed that switching weapons was insanely fast, I'd be shooting some guy with a rifle in his hands and seemingly in one frame he'd be responding with a pistol which somehow was more accurate and did more damage than whatever I was shooting him with. Being dropped with a pistol from fifty or a hundred yards seemed a bit much, it's neither realistic nor good gameplay IMO.

    I think you're right about BFV having elements of realism but an arcade feel at the same time. Oddly some of the reactions I've seen posted here are directly contrary to my impressions. I thought the game was mostly fast action with intense firefights, but I've seen people post about how slow they thought the game was. I thought snipers were OP, I mean if I can do well sniping it must be OP, but there are sniper-junkies prepared to swear this beta has the weakest sniper weapons in the history of gaming--I guess they want a one-shot kill even if they hit the guy in the foot. I did think a chest hit with a sniper rifle from a few meters should be a kill, other than that I had no issues with sniper weapons.

    I had some great runs in tanks and even halftracks, but there are plenty of players who apparently think the armor in the beta was almost useless and so delicate anyone could take it out with ease. I killed a bunch of tanks, but it was usually with mines placed on their blind side set off with a grenade, and in some cases I know those tanks were already damaged.

    I'd like to think the full release will be more coherent and everything will feel like it fits together. But maybe it's rather late for DICE to still be trying to decide what sort of game this is supposed to be. Obviously they'd like to sell 50 million copies like PUBG, but the only way that happens is if they invite players in China to show up in any server anywhere in the world and just ignore the crippling OOR lag. If they do that they're not going to have me as a customer. Yeah, I think you're right, they're not quite sure what they want this game to be other than profitable, it could still go either way.
  • I prefer arcadey games. They promote a skill set that I like more than slogfest "realistic" games.

    But, this thread is completely stupid. It has already been established that "realism" is not an actual thing in this game.

    The fact that you are complaining about the things you are and not something obvious, like TTK, makes your complaint dumb, imo.

    In order for a game to be "realistic", all the stuff you brought up play 2nd fiddle to how quickly people die in real life from modern weaponry.

    People don't survive shotgun blasts, sniper bullets, or multiple bullets at close range, like they do in EVERY FPS THAT HAS EVER EXISTED.

    Why aren't you complaining about that, OP?
  • Libertine79
    84 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    I think identity crisis hits the nail on the head.
    it wants to be a jack of all trades but falls short because you just cannot do that.
    you simply cant have a game that caters to the crowd that loved say 2142 and at the same time cater to casuals that want arcade style battlefront gameplay. and yet thats exactly what they're trying to do.
    and dont get me wrong, theres nothing wrong with trying to appeal to the largest possible audience but if you loose consistency along the way you end up with a mess like this.
    just take the customization, the "classic" battlefield players want uniformity and authenticity in the way the characters look whereas the arcade crowd would happily run around swining bionic arms and spouting blue warpaint. but how can you get those 2 things under the same hat. one will be bored when everyone looks the same and the other one will get dragged out of the immersion when he sees freddy kruger running around the map.

    they need to make up their minds about the direction they want to go and be consistent about it to avoid producing another **** child like this that nobody really wanted in that form.
  • Loqtrall
    10996 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    I truly don't get your point when all of the "realistic" aspects you listed are highly unrealistic themselves.

    Like the animations - sure you do an animation to revive but you still just poke a guy with a syringe. Sure you do an animation to give someone ammo but you're giving a guy using a Bren with a magazine the size of Texas a tiny box for ammo.

    Sure weapons have no rbd and are more similar to real weapons than, say, BF1 - but they still handle better than the real world weapons EVER would unless they were bolted to a table when fired. And some weapons, like rifles, are considerably weaker in nearly every way than thier real life counterparts.

    Lastly, I don't get the comparison between weapons upgrades and a skill tree from an MMO. Literally the only similarity is that there are two "upgrade paths" to choose from, other than that they share nothing in terms of functionality.

    The weapon upgrades literally mimic the effects of attachments in a game without attachments. BF1 did the same thing with variants, where every possible "upgrade path" for a weapon was instead listed as multiple variants of the same weapon on the weapons list, that had different strengths and weaknesses.
  • zynthetikk
    10 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Member
    Loqtrall wrote: »
    I truly don't get your point when all of the "realistic" aspects you listed are highly unrealistic themselves.

    Like the animations - sure you do an animation to revive but you still just poke a guy with a syringe. Sure you do an animation to give someone ammo but you're giving a guy using a Bren with a magazine the size of Texas a tiny box for ammo.

    Sure weapons have no rbd and are more similar to real weapons than, say, BF1 - but they still handle better than the real world weapons EVER would unless they were bolted to a table when fired. And some weapons, like rifles, are considerably weaker in nearly every way than thier real life counterparts.

    Lastly, I don't get the comparison between weapons upgrades and a skill tree from an MMO. Literally the only similarity is that there are two "upgrade paths" to choose from, other than that they share nothing in terms of functionality.

    The weapon upgrades literally mimic the effects of attachments in a game without attachments. BF1 did the same thing with variants, where every possible "upgrade path" for a weapon was instead listed as multiple variants of the same weapon on the weapons list, that had different strengths and weaknesses.

    All the things you mention just helped me prove my point.

    Why even add a slow animation of you picking up a small ammobox?
    It's not realistic and it doens't help the gameplay.

    skill tree means that you lock that character to a specific path, how is that not a RPG mechanic?
    In BF3/BF4 you could mod your gun with attachments which actually made sense.

    And like MegaloDorian wrote, this game also has a killstreak system.. this game has no idea what it wants to be.
  • ItsMeJamige
    30 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    edited September 14
    The game doesn't have a kill streak system. You can get zero kills and still use it, not to mention it's shared across a squad and not just 1 person.
  • von_Campenstein
    5341 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    When a game includes "attrition" to bring back some of that hardcore aspect, but then also includes scorestreak rewards, it definitely has an identity crisis.

    The V2 is there to sell the game, it's the behemoth of BF5, no doubt it will be toned down after release.
  • Loqtrall
    10996 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    edited September 14
    zynthetikk wrote: »
    Loqtrall wrote: »
    I truly don't get your point when all of the "realistic" aspects you listed are highly unrealistic themselves.

    Like the animations - sure you do an animation to revive but you still just poke a guy with a syringe. Sure you do an animation to give someone ammo but you're giving a guy using a Bren with a magazine the size of Texas a tiny box for ammo.

    Sure weapons have no rbd and are more similar to real weapons than, say, BF1 - but they still handle better than the real world weapons EVER would unless they were bolted to a table when fired. And some weapons, like rifles, are considerably weaker in nearly every way than thier real life counterparts.

    Lastly, I don't get the comparison between weapons upgrades and a skill tree from an MMO. Literally the only similarity is that there are two "upgrade paths" to choose from, other than that they share nothing in terms of functionality.

    The weapon upgrades literally mimic the effects of attachments in a game without attachments. BF1 did the same thing with variants, where every possible "upgrade path" for a weapon was instead listed as multiple variants of the same weapon on the weapons list, that had different strengths and weaknesses.

    All the things you mention just helped me prove my point.

    Why even add a slow animation of you picking up a small ammobox?
    It's not realistic and it doens't help the gameplay.

    skill tree means that you lock that character to a specific path, how is that not a RPG mechanic?
    In BF3/BF4 you could mod your gun with attachments which actually made sense.

    And like MegaloDorian wrote, this game also has a killstreak system.. this game has no idea what it wants to be.

    The animation is there to interrupt shooting while picking up health and ammo from resupply points, so you can't just heal at one in the middle of a firefight. I'd say that's for the sake of gameplay.

    And you're way oversimplifying skill trees in RPGs, which entirely shape an rpg character and what they're capable of doing. Whereas the upgrade "trees" in BF5 mimic the effects of attachments - they don't make your gun magically capable of something it wasn't before. I can tell you right now that people are WAY overblowing how much better the recoil upgrades make the weapons, the effects are marginal at best - like adding a grip to a weapon in BF4.

    On top of that, you can buy multiple copies of each weapon, enabling you to be able to select from ALL "trees" possible through upgrades.

    I don't see why people expect the vast and to some degree pointless attachment system of BF4 - many of the weapons in this era barely took attachments at all past muzzle modifications and extended magazines. There would be like one grip to choose from for maybe a handful of weapons in the game. There's no laser sights, under barrel attachments, 14,000 kinds of optics, etc.

    It's the same reason a variant system was done in BF1.

    Lastly, it's as far from a killstreak system as you can get. It's a squad effort and you can go without killing much at all and still get one if your squad knows what they're doing. That's not to mention in the Dev Talks the guys from DICE said they only wanted the V1 to be called in MAYBE 2 times per match, so the score requirement to call one in will more than likely be increased, and it's usefulness is nothing compared to that of Behemoths in BF1.
  • zynthetikk
    10 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Member
    Loqtrall wrote: »

    The animation is there to interrupt shooting while picking up health and ammo from resupply points, so you can't just heal at one in the middle of a firefight. I'd say that's for the sake of gameplay.

    And you're way oversimplifying skill trees in RPGs, which entirely shape an rpg character and what they're capable of doing. Whereas the upgrade "trees" in BF5 mimic the effects of attachments - they don't make your gun magically capable of something it wasn't before. I can tell you right now that people are WAY overblowing how much better the recoil upgrades make the weapons, the effects are marginal at best - like adding a grip to a weapon in BF4.

    On top of that, you can buy multiple copies of each weapon, enabling you to be able to select from ALL "trees" possible through upgrades.

    I don't see why people expect the vast and to some degree pointless attachment system of BF4 - many of the weapons in this era barely took attachments at all past muzzle modifications and extended magazines. There would be like one grip to choose from for maybe a handful of weapons in the game. There's no laser sights, under barrel attachments, 14,000 kinds of optics, etc.

    It's the same reason a variant system was done in BF1.

    Lastly, it's as far from a killstreak system as you can get. It's a squad effort and you can go without killing much at all and still get one if your squad knows what they're doing. That's not to mention in the Dev Talks the guys from DICE said they only wanted the V1 to be called in MAYBE 2 times per match, so the score requirement to call one in will more than likely be increased, and it's usefulness is nothing compared to that of Behemoths in BF1.

    animations slows down the gameplay and make it more tactical but the rest of the gameplay is fast paced, it's horrible balance.
    Remove the animation for health, ammo and revives and you will have a much better game, or increase the spawn time so that people won't rush.

    I disagree, attachments were great, they had both advantages and disadvanteges.
    You might not have noticed the differences but most people did, and the game actually has an attachment system as well, you can change sights.
    Buying a new gun to try out the rest of the skills is just lazy and added for grind, I mean one of the skills are "faster-bullets".

    if you're doing great you get points that you can spend on a calling in support from outside the map, that is a "killstreak", or call it a "squadstreak" if you want to go into sematics.



  • -L-M3rc3n4ry
    338 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Loqtrall wrote: »
    Sure weapons have no rbd and are more similar to real weapons than, say, BF1 - but they still handle better than the real world weapons EVER would unless they were bolted to a table when fired. And some weapons, like rifles, are considerably weaker in nearly every way than thier real life counterparts.(...).

    The unique game who represented rifles with his realistic muzzle speed was BF1.
  • ragnarok013
    534 postsMember, Moderator, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Moderator
    zynthetikk wrote: »
    Hawxxeye wrote: »
    This video of that guy seems to address the change in what kind of playing the BF games encouraged over time and how BFV might be trying too forcefully to go back to older style (while still being inconsistent about it imho

    That video really hits the nail on the head

    Maybe they should just split the game into 2 modes
    Realistic mode and Arcade mode.

    We already have that, it's called Core and Hardcore.
  • BetaFief
    569 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    zynthetikk wrote: »
    Hawxxeye wrote: »
    This video of that guy seems to address the change in what kind of playing the BF games encouraged over time and how BFV might be trying too forcefully to go back to older style (while still being inconsistent about it imho

    That video really hits the nail on the head

    Maybe they should just split the game into 2 modes
    Realistic mode and Arcade mode.

    We already have that, it's called Core and Hardcore.

    Not really.
    Hardcore mode has perhaps slightly different damage models but that's not really good enough to be reasonably called '"realistic" or even "classic"/"BF1942-like". Maybe if "hardcore mode" had redesigns done to more systems such that it bore a closer resemblance to "BF1942" to "Forgotten Hope 2" or "Day of Infamy" in terms of classes, weapon-balance, mechanics, than a resemblance to BF1.
  • -L-M3rc3n4ry
    338 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    BF = New Lawbreakers

    BF was away an arcade game. 3D spotting, tanks artificially more nimble and fast on BF 1, Artificially inflated health Martini Henry(used to hunt Elephants) needing to hit an horse head many times to kill the horse, or soldiers surviving an HS from a heavy machine gun on BF3/4, bf was never an realistic game like Red Orchestra, Arma 2/3, Insurgency, BF was always about cinematic experience. If you change the formula, you assume the risk of not praising everyone; Lawbreakers failed because tried to appeal to HC arena shooters and to Hero shooter fans. Both demands completely different things. In the end, hero shooters stayed on overwatch and arena shooters stayed in games like quake.

    BF had since a long time, scope glare, 3D spotting, kill cams, etc; just to make sure that everyone will be on action instead of camping. For those who doesn't like this elements, go play HC. "but BF1 have realistic muzzle speed, bf3/bf4 din't have", yes, but other games have it. Also, there are 3D spotting, scope glare, etc; and tanks are much faster than IRL. Can you imagine an A7V tank in road moving at incredible 15km/h? The MG plate armored elite class only being able to stop pistol cartridge weapons? Incendiary ammo destroying the airship behemoth pretty fast?

    What BF V did?
    - Removed everything that encourages an more action gameplay
    - Forced teamplay and team composition(you don't use an support because you wanna, you use to make sure that everyone on your squad have ammo)
    - Camping on hills become low risk high reward thanks to the removal of that mechanics
    - Full Auto guns fells without any recoil(mainly STG 44)
    - Bolt action guns fells like they are trowing an slow BB gun projectile considering how slow the projectile are

    So what will happens? BF V will become an campfest, with an lot of snipers and LMG guys camping on the hills, BF V will not appeal to old BF players, to SQUAD players or to COD players. Will fail just like Lawbreakers failed
  • smokintom214
    783 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    Seems like OP just wanted to be a complainer.. which is cool... Most people complaining will just play the game anyway and continue to cry about not getting a modern bf combat game even tho the last decade has been Modern combat....

    The circle of complaints never ends..
  • The circle of complaints never ends..

    As you just proved in your post complaining about the OP ...
Sign In or Register to comment.

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!