Attrition video -- Levelcap

Comments

  • Hawxxeye
    5149 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    TyroneLoyd wrote: »
    We dislike spread because it's random and out of our control yet we're ok with mechanics that limit the effectiveness of players?

    Spread is not random in principle, and most certainly not out of our control. User issue.
    Why? Yes, I know it's a casual game but punishing strong players because they're punishing weak players is just abhorrent. I got good by getting my **** whooped for 350 hours in BF4. It made me into a strong player today.

    You are a self-proclaimed mouse and keyboard user on both console platforms. The playstyle you feature on your videos is one of preying on PTFO players, never stepping foot on flags and playing medic solely for self heals. 337 revives to almost 10k medic kills sends a clear message. Your concept of skill with regard to objective based team oriented games is skewed. You might want to stick to LevelCraps comment section.
    bran1986 wrote: »

    Are you afraid your teammates won't actually do it, leaving you screwed?

    Um ... yes? Blueberries aren't exactly very dependent in Battlefield games ... hell, they're not dependable in any online game, ever. I'm probably going to have to call @MachoFantast1c0 (I'll give you plenty of ammo, I promise) every time I want to play a BFV match, because God knows the other medics on my team won't even lift a finger to help me out when I need them. I still remember my time with the beta ... I would run out into gunfire, sometimes even charging another bloody tank, just to do a squad revive that takes several seconds and get my revived teammate to safety by using a smoke grenade or distracting enemies, only to have the medics not bother to revive me when I'm in cover and no enemies are around.

    I mean, it was pretty weird when I was constantly reviving my squad mates ... as a Support player ... XD

    We'll all have to get used to this system, because DICE are not looking to change this anytime soon. They're desperate for the 'Battlefield veterans', who have not even played a BF game for over a decade in some cases, and who are completely outnumbered by other gaming demographics. At the same time, DICE is trying to cater to those other demographics. I truly wonder how this will end ... either this will be DICE's masterstroke, or this game will die faster than Hardline.

    Me and @MachoFantast1c0 could always use another squad mate.

    I will kill'em all to pick you guys back up, or die trying. Hopefully not to lack of ammo, so gotta work on my accuracy. Three more stars to go with the RSC.

    Halp I need a revive. Haaalp

    This is relevant from 4:58 to 5:13
    https://youtu.be/-cP5hKZw7s4?t=298
  • Hawxxeye
    5149 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Why is everyone acting like the playerbase is split into two objective groups, the "high skill" players who will run out of ammo every life, and the "low skill" players who will never run out of ammo before dying?

    That's a super one dimensional way of looking at this. On top of the fact that dying before you run out of ammo doesn't magically mean that you don't have the exact same ammo count as everyone else when you respawn. I'm sure it will happen to high skilled players plenty.

    The aversion to running out of ammo in a game where resupplying ammo has been a core gameplay mechanic since the very first game in the series is pretty crazy to me. I don't understand how people can play BF and be so intent on achieving a self-sustained lone wolf playstyle.

    I've seen so many people online telling newer, less skilled players to "git gud" over the years in regard to so many different gameplay mechanics. It's super ironic that now self proclaimed higher skilled players are calling for an entire gameplay mechanic to be outright removed or changed to the point it may as well not even be included, instead of adapting.
    Still the whole concept of spawning being less than fully supplied like in the beta was very annoying.
    I had plenty of ammo/health needs in the previous games without any makeshift attrition.
  • H3nry_K1llinger6
    80 postsMember Member
    edited October 2018
    Hawxxeye wrote: »
    Still the whole concept of spawning being less than fully supplied like in the beta was very annoying.
    I had plenty of ammo/health needs in the previous games without any makeshift attrition.

    And that's entirely subjective, and the same argument could be used for a list of gameplay mechanics in different BF games. Imo 3d spotting was enough in BF3, but they added 2d minimap spotting and thermal optics to weapons and vehicles in BF4, and I thought they were one of the most noob-enabling, annoying mechanics ever in a BF game. I played that game for 3 years and endured 3 years of nearly everyone in the game using thermal optics, and knowing my location every time I fired my gun.

    When I complained about them I was very outright told to "adapt and git gud".

    And before the tradeoffs to 2d spotting and thermals are mentioned, yes you can use a suppressor to negate 2d spotting and yes you can use a laser to SORT OF mess with thermals - but they have thier drawbacks. Suppressors make rounds slower than hell, and lasers on top of not fully negating thermals at all and more giving them a big "look over here and shoot me" light, also give away your position and do nothing but help hipfire.

    Just like attrition can be negated by regularly resupplying, which has its trade offs. You can either try to find a support player and hope they give you ammo, or chance it by running to an obj to get more ammo. If anything, when it comes to lone wolf players, the resupply crates on objectives somewhat negate the fact that random supports won't give you ammo. Instead of running to a support and spamming need ammo, run to a crate and press a single button for guaranteed ammo.

    Sorry, but I just don't consider "I can't play EXACTLY how I want to if I have to keep running to get ammo" a valid argument as to why attrition is a bad thing.

    I don't get why "adapt" seems to be a solid retort to every complaint about a gameplay mechanic aside from attrition.

    We had almost 10 years of 3d spotting solely based on the "players need to adapt" argument.
  • MacaqueX
    674 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Hawxxeye wrote: »
    Why is everyone acting like the playerbase is split into two objective groups, the "high skill" players who will run out of ammo every life, and the "low skill" players who will never run out of ammo before dying?

    That's a super one dimensional way of looking at this. On top of the fact that dying before you run out of ammo doesn't magically mean that you don't have the exact same ammo count as everyone else when you respawn. I'm sure it will happen to high skilled players plenty.

    The aversion to running out of ammo in a game where resupplying ammo has been a core gameplay mechanic since the very first game in the series is pretty crazy to me. I don't understand how people can play BF and be so intent on achieving a self-sustained lone wolf playstyle.

    I've seen so many people online telling newer, less skilled players to "git gud" over the years in regard to so many different gameplay mechanics. It's super ironic that now self proclaimed higher skilled players are calling for an entire gameplay mechanic to be outright removed or changed to the point it may as well not even be included, instead of adapting.
    Still the whole concept of spawning being less than fully supplied like in the beta was very annoying.
    I had plenty of ammo/health needs in the previous games without any makeshift attrition.

    Yeah, i hated that but when i learned not to top of ammo after spawn, that was it, i just played normally and ammo was everywhere. On downed players and objectives. Felt attrition only few times.
  • Hawxxeye
    5149 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited October 2018
    Hawxxeye wrote: »
    Still the whole concept of spawning being less than fully supplied like in the beta was very annoying.
    I had plenty of ammo/health needs in the previous games without any makeshift attrition.

    And that's entirely subjective, and the same argument could be used for a list of gameplay mechanics in different BF games. Imo 3d spotting was enough in BF3, but they added 2d minimap spotting and thermal optics to weapons and vehicles in BF4, and I thought they were one of the most noob-enabling, annoying mechanics ever in a BF game. I played that game for 3 years and endured 3 years of nearly everyone in the game using thermal optics, and knowing my location every time I fired my gun.

    When I complained about them I was very outright told to "adapt and git gud".

    And before the tradeoffs to 2d spotting and thermals are mentioned, yes you can use a suppressor to negate 2d spotting and yes you can use a laser to SORT OF mess with thermals - but they have thier drawbacks. Suppressors make rounds slower than hell, and lasers on top of not fully negating thermals at all and more giving them a big "look over here and shoot me" light, also give away your position and do nothing but help hipfire.

    Just like attrition can be negated by regularly resupplying, which has its trade offs. You can either try to find a support player and hope they give you ammo, or chance it by running to an obj to get more ammo. If anything, when it comes to lone wolf players, the resupply crates on objectives somewhat negate the fact that random supports won't give you ammo. Instead of running to a support and spamming need ammo, run to a crate and press a single button for guaranteed ammo.

    Sorry, but I just don't consider "I can't play EXACTLY how I want to if I have to keep running to get ammo" a valid argument as to why attrition is a bad thing.

    I don't get why "adapt" seems to be a solid retort to every complaint about a gameplay mechanic aside from attrition.

    We had almost 10 years of 3d spotting solely based on the "players need to adapt" argument.
    I am not one of those people who run out of bullets before someone kills them most of the time. My beef is with needing to camp at a resupply station to consistently flare for my team or to use that one flare we spawn with and redeploy each time for more.

    "adapting" sadly does not mean that ones way of adapting to a situation is the correct one. For example one might call a team who is spawntraped to be adapting when they switch to sniper rifles when the correct adaptation would had been to try to break through from multiple ways at the same time
    Post edited by Hawxxeye on
  • von_Campenstein
    6565 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    Sixclicks wrote: »
    Hawxxeye wrote: »
    Mystriall wrote: »
    Now this adapting might be as Radious1987 states, by just running circles from station to station, or for some probably camping at or near a certain station. But for some it will be by actually starting to contribute to the team by giving out ammo/healing. They should make customization unlocks for healing and resupplying and reviving teammates, that might give some of the people who only care for themselves a reason to actually help others.
    -
    Knowing the community I expect a lot of people to specialize into ambushing people who try to ressuply themselves on the stations. If you know where a large chunck of the enemies will diffinitely go it is easier to lie in wait and mow them down with a bipoded MG42 or to put there some bouncing betties.

    That's what I was actually just thinking about, before reading your comment, that I hadn't tried yet. Double stacking some S mines on the supply crates lol. Sounds like some really easy kills. Can probably get away with only one S mine by the health crates assuming those who go for it are likely to be injured.

    Now if only you could also carry AT mines. Then you could drop one S mine and one AT mine by the supply station to get a kill and have another S mine for another supply station.

    That was my thinking, those stations will be heavily mined, especially the ones where you have to round a corner or climb up to get to, leaving you less time to spot the bouncing betty and react.
  • Mystriall
    497 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Hawxxeye wrote: »
    "adapting" sadly does not mean that ones way of adapting to a situation is the correct one. For example one might call a team who is spawntraped to be adapting when they switch to sniper rifles when the correct adaptation would had been to try to break through from multiple ways at the same time

    What you have described here isn't called adapting, but giving up! . Typically the stuff score/KD-centered players do when on the loosing team and "spawntrapped" in order to maintain their score/KD. :)
  • Hawxxeye
    5149 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Mystriall wrote: »
    Hawxxeye wrote: »
    "adapting" sadly does not mean that ones way of adapting to a situation is the correct one. For example one might call a team who is spawntraped to be adapting when they switch to sniper rifles when the correct adaptation would had been to try to break through from multiple ways at the same time

    What you have described here isn't called adapting, but giving up! . Typically the stuff score/KD-centered players do when on the loosing team and "spawntrapped" in order to maintain their score/KD. :)
    I fear we are going to see a lot more of "giving up" on BFV. It was already typical in BF1 for me and people like me to be the minority that sneaked past the enemy front lines and are trying to backdoor some empty bases before the enemies notice.
  • Mystriall
    497 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Hawxxeye wrote: »
    Mystriall wrote: »
    Hawxxeye wrote: »
    "adapting" sadly does not mean that ones way of adapting to a situation is the correct one. For example one might call a team who is spawntraped to be adapting when they switch to sniper rifles when the correct adaptation would had been to try to break through from multiple ways at the same time

    What you have described here isn't called adapting, but giving up! . Typically the stuff score/KD-centered players do when on the loosing team and "spawntrapped" in order to maintain their score/KD. :)
    I fear we are going to see a lot more of "giving up" on BFV. It was already typical in BF1 for me and people like me to be the minority that sneaked past the enemy front lines and are trying to backdoor some empty bases before the enemies notice.

    you are probably right, but in the end only time can tell :)
  • Hawxxeye
    5149 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited October 2018
    @H3nry_K1llinger6
    Yeah double standards is a scourge that ravages humanity.
  • BaronVonGoon
    6630 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited October 2018
    We dislike spread because it's random and out of our control yet we're ok with mechanics that limit the effectiveness of players?

    Spread is not random in principle, and most certainly not out of our control. User issue.

    False. It is random. In other words, out of your control. You can do things to lessen it's effects but it is random, hence, 'Random Bullet Deviation', its in the name.

    You are a self-proclaimed mouse and keyboard user on both console platforms. The playstyle you feature on your videos is one of preying on PTFO players, never stepping foot on flags and playing medic solely for self heals. 337 revives to almost 10k medic kills sends a clear message. Your concept of skill with regard to objective based team oriented games is skewed. You might want to stick to LevelCraps comment section.

    Ohhhh you're on one those people. I'm flattered. That's like an intro to my Battlefield biography. And I 'pray on PTFO players' haha like it's somehow a sin to shoot other players in Battlefield in bunches? You're right the last thing we want to do is hurt other players feelings or ruin their fun by you know shooting them to the redeploy screen.

    Stick to the attrition topic this isnt a thread about discussing players stats or attacking a YouTuber.

  • MachoFantast1c0
    2009 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    You're welcome. Never forget.
  • Sixclicks
    5073 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited October 2018
    I'm curious how they will balance the differences between the RSC and ZH-29, both being two hit kill with comparable mag sizes, and neither OHK to the head. Hard to avoid one being better than the other in most circumstances.

    I was thinking maybe it would just have less range than the ZH-29 but in exchange, if they keep the BF1 rate of fire, it would have a slightly faster rate of fire at 179 RPM vs 138 RPM. That would make it more of a close-medium range focused SLR. At longer ranges it would become a 3 hit kill similar to how it was in BF1. Which is where the ZH-29 would then be better.

    That's what I'm hopeing for at least. That would give recon a 335 ms TTK weapon for close ranges. SMGs and assault rifles still remain slightly faster than that, but it's better than only having 435+ ms weapons.
  • BaronVonGoon
    6630 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    You're welcome. Never forget.

    Huh??
  • bran1986
    5575 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited October 2018
    Sixclicks wrote: »
    I'm curious how they will balance the differences between the RSC and ZH-29, both being two hit kill with comparable mag sizes, and neither OHK to the head. Hard to avoid one being better than the other in most circumstances.

    I was thinking maybe it would just have less range than the ZH-29 but in exchange, if they keep the BF1 rate of fire, it would have a slightly faster rate of fire at 179 RPM vs 138 RPM. That would make it more of a close-medium range focused SLR. At longer ranges it would become a 3 hit kill similar to how it was in BF1. Which is where the ZH-29 would then be better.

    That's what I'm hopeing for at least. That would give recon a 335 ms TTK weapon for close ranges. SMGs and assault rifles still remain slightly faster than that, but it's better than only having 435+ ms weapons.
    I think that is where the auto 8 will fit in terms of balancing.
  • Hay-its-dudeman
    364 postsMember Member
    Why is everyone acting like the playerbase is split into two objective groups, the "high skill" players who will run out of ammo every life, and the "low skill" players who will never run out of ammo before dying?

    That's a super one dimensional way of looking at this. On top of the fact that dying before you run out of ammo doesn't magically mean that you don't have the exact same ammo count as everyone else when you respawn. I'm sure it will happen to high skilled players plenty.

    The aversion to running out of ammo in a game where resupplying ammo has been a core gameplay mechanic since the very first game in the series is pretty crazy to me. I don't understand how people can play BF and be so intent on achieving a self-sustained lone wolf playstyle.

    I've seen so many people online telling newer, less skilled players to "git gud" over the years in regard to so many different gameplay mechanics. It's super ironic that now self proclaimed higher skilled players are calling for an entire gameplay mechanic to be outright removed or changed to the point it may as well not even be included, instead of adapting.

    that post was beautiful.
  • Sixclicks
    5073 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    bran1986 wrote: »
    Sixclicks wrote: »
    I'm curious how they will balance the differences between the RSC and ZH-29, both being two hit kill with comparable mag sizes, and neither OHK to the head. Hard to avoid one being better than the other in most circumstances.

    I was thinking maybe it would just have less range than the ZH-29 but in exchange, if they keep the BF1 rate of fire, it would have a slightly faster rate of fire at 179 RPM vs 138 RPM. That would make it more of a close-medium range focused SLR. At longer ranges it would become a 3 hit kill similar to how it was in BF1. Which is where the ZH-29 would then be better.

    That's what I'm hopeing for at least. That would give recon a 335 ms TTK weapon for close ranges. SMGs and assault rifles still remain slightly faster than that, but it's better than only having 435+ ms weapons.
    I think that is where the auto 8 will fit in terms of balancing.

    That's another SLR I'm curious about. In a Reddit comment, one of the devs said the SLRs are supposed to be harder hitting than the Semi-auto rifles (since they differentiated the two on their weapon list) and do around 50 damage per bullet. Does that mean the Auto 8 will also do around 50 damage? Maybe it's the exception of the three. Or maybe the rate of fire will be greatly reduced compared to BF1.
  • SirTerrible
    1630 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Who the heck can't adapt to having no ammo? Takes 3 seconds to learn you now have to pick up enemy guns or head to supply stations 24/7. It's not difficult to learn. It's boring as all heck compared to not having to micromanage ammo 24/7 though.
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