Weekly Debrief

Attrition video -- Levelcap

Comments

  • DingoKillr
    3676 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    555, funniest video I have seen. I know why I don't watch this fool.

    - Tactics and Strategy are different, what he calls strategy is actual a different tactics.
    - Not a team player only wants what he thinks makes good videos.
    - Solo Assault while complaining the team is not supporting him.
    - complains DICE don't know what they are talking about with long and short term health, then complains needing to restock while stating that he will always use pouch when he has lost 10%.

    Gave up as did see it getting any better.
  • azelenkin0306
    563 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Attrition will make game more tactical and thoughtful. Well, it might have worked if maps were not tiny corridors and you didn't have engagements every 20-30 seconds (unless you're camping playing smart)

    Make huge maps where taking the objective really means something in terms of strategy (additional vehicles, ammo depot, airfield + additional planes, fuel depot, vantage points, fortifications). Currently, objectives are just flags without any advantage. What's the point of capturing/defending it? Points?

    Rotterdam and Narvik are the same BF1 maps with mindless running from one flag to another. They were promoting this kind of playstyle for the last few titles and people were OK with that as you long as you have ammo to kill enemies. Now they decided to keep the same playstyle, but limit the ammo and remove health regen. No wonder, that people don't like it.

  • azelenkin0306
    563 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Ultimate troll from DICE - make a first person SHOOTER and not give you bullets.

    I know right?

    I guess we should be thankful we're not spawning with melee only lol

    Wait for Soviet DLC, where you will have 1 weapon per squad
  • Hawxxeye
    6026 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    DingoKillr wrote: »

    However it seems DICE listened more to the team is there to support me and the glory is mine solo. These players find it difficult to learn new(old) ways while telling other to get gud.
    Talking about the assault superheroes I assume.
  • DingoKillr
    3676 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Hawxxeye wrote: »
    DingoKillr wrote: »

    However it seems DICE listened more to the team is there to support me and the glory is mine solo. These players find it difficult to learn new(old) ways while telling other to get gud.
    Talking about the assault superheroes I assume.
    Not specifically but they are the standout in BF1. Medic did a good job of that in TTK 2.0.
  • llPhantom_Limbll
    5658 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Ultimate troll from DICE - make a first person SHOOTER and not give you bullets.

    I know right?

    I guess we should be thankful we're not spawning with melee only lol

    Wait for Soviet DLC, where you will have 1 weapon per squad

    And one ammo pouch per team.
  • VincentNZ
    3223 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    On Rotterdam there was never an issue, people ran from flag to flag anyway and if one was to unattentive to not stack up, it was one's own fault. On Narvik however there were some flags where ammo crates were in rather stupid places. Once we see the bigger maps with no cover this will surely increase.

    I do not see one argument being made by DICE in the blog that I can support. So they acknowledge that the action is supposed to be around the flags only. What about the poor idiots that are caught in combat between flags? So we are supposed to play together as a team, does that mean the meta is that 32 players run from flag to flag? So they want good squad compositions, what if noone wants to play support or medic? Or when you are one of the 50 players of a round that does not play with friends?
    They mention the commo rose, as if that was anything new. We've had that since BF3 now. If a support player sees it he will toss ammo, no ****, sherlock. The problem is that it now requires an immediate action by that support now. Maybe that fellow is too invested at the moment to give ammo? Before he would have just dropped a crate somewhere nearby that one could go to.

    I agree with Levelcap about the self-heal. In a game where the TTK revolves around milliseconds and where every bit of health counts in any engagement, I will of course use the pouch as soon as I am damaged, as the next engagement could only be seconds away. I also have no resources to go through like in PUBG, so where exactly is the tactical approach? I can only see that everyone has to press a button more for stuff that was automatic before.

    There are times where it is simply not advisable to zerg with the rest of your team, where a backcap is just what your team needs. Then you are crippled in various stages. Now that is a tactical loss here.
    In conclusion this is just one of those ideas that on paper look like a very tacticool feature, but that does not play out very well, because it does not synergize with the other mechanics. It is either irrelevant or crippling and in both cases it turns out as busywork.
  • TyroneLoyd
    1423 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Most in unison I've ever seen a thread on this damn forum :D It's almost kind of scary.

    I don't care if it's in or not. I like it on both sides.
  • Hawxxeye
    6026 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Ultimate troll from DICE - make a first person SHOOTER and not give you bullets.

    I know right?

    I guess we should be thankful we're not spawning with melee only lol

    Wait for Soviet DLC, where you will have 1 weapon per squad

    If they wanted to be accurate with the Soviet battles they need to make the axis soldiers take damage from the cold until they kill a Soviet and scavenge his cold weather gear
  • staryoshi06
    202 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Micas99 wrote: »
    Dice's statements serve only to reassure themselves that they haven't destroyed Battlefield. They know it's a train wreck but to admit it would make them look like idiots.. so they'll go down with the ship and blame it all on the players.

    Dice.. delay the game another 3 months and fix it.. and while you're at it, fix that nightmare of a UI that somebody thought is "new and innovative". You know.. just go copy BF4. Everyone will be happier.

    How about they don't copy BF4.
    I'd rather the game work at launch instead of waiting a year for it to be fixed. I'd also like the weapons to actually be different instead of all being variants of the same thing.
    And of course, I'd like to not have premium split the community.
  • x_Undaunted_x
    3760 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Most in unison I've ever seen a thread on this damn forum :D It's almost kind of sexy.

    FTFY
  • VincentNZ
    3223 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Micas99 wrote: »
    Dice's statements serve only to reassure themselves that they haven't destroyed Battlefield. They know it's a train wreck but to admit it would make them look like idiots.. so they'll go down with the ship and blame it all on the players.

    Dice.. delay the game another 3 months and fix it.. and while you're at it, fix that nightmare of a UI that somebody thought is "new and innovative". You know.. just go copy BF4. Everyone will be happier.

    How about they don't copy BF4.
    I'd rather the game work at launch instead of waiting a year for it to be fixed. I'd also like the weapons to actually be different instead of all being variants of the same thing.
    And of course, I'd like to not have premium split the community.

    Hmm? Have you seen the list? Look at the SMGs: Three are basically improved MP18 versions and 5 total sport roughly the same ROF, while using the same calibre and the upgrade system makes them straight copies of one another. They all fill the same niche.
    That holds true for all automatic weapons basically. The rates of fire do not differ enough to justify large deviations in recoil and neither does the damage. The only solution they came up with is to limit the MMGs that sport a higher ROF to hipfire only unless prone.
    Compare that to BF4 where you had different ROF fire differences from 590 to, what 1000? That is a huge difference.
  • Turban_Legend80
    4666 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Member
    Micas99 wrote: »
    Dice's statements serve only to reassure themselves that they haven't destroyed Battlefield. They know it's a train wreck but to admit it would make them look like idiots.. so they'll go down with the ship and blame it all on the players.

    Dice.. delay the game another 3 months and fix it.. and while you're at it, fix that nightmare of a UI that somebody thought is "new and innovative". You know.. just go copy BF4. Everyone will be happier.

    How about they don't copy BF4.
    I'd rather the game work at launch instead of waiting a year for it to be fixed. I'd also like the weapons to actually be different instead of all being variants of the same thing.
    And of course, I'd like to not have premium split the community.
    Did he say copy BF4 as it was at launch? Obviously not.
    When you have balanced weapons, they will seem more similar to each other than a game with unbalanced weapons.
    How many people can you fit in one match? Even if 50% of all players were premium and 50% were not premium, it has no effect on whether or not you can find a game.
    And it doesn’t split the community as much as the platform you play the game on.

  • JubDubTV
    345 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    DingoKillr wrote: »
    555, funniest video I have seen. I know why I don't watch this fool.

    - Tactics and Strategy are different, what he calls strategy is actual a different tactics.
    - Not a team player only wants what he thinks makes good videos.
    - Solo Assault while complaining the team is not supporting him.
    - complains DICE don't know what they are talking about with long and short term health, then complains needing to restock while stating that he will always use pouch when he has lost 10%.

    Gave up as did see it getting any better.

    It's funny you say that, as he was spouting "Tactics vs. Strategy" are more of less the same thing. Just a different time frame. Long term versus short term. Can you actually even have a strategy is a game that lasts 20 minutes? Not really lol. I don't call going for the closest or farthest flags a strategy really.

    It's not like these games are ladder league competitions against another team 4 v 4 etc . Where you can have a strategy.

    Really hate YT'ers and Streamers, just a bunch of shills.
  • BaronVonGoon
    6868 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Thread isn't about YouTubers or streamers, its about attrition (see title).
  • Turban_Legend80
    4666 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Member
    Thread isn't about YouTubers or streamers, its about attrition (see title).
    They should apply attrition to YouTube. Make it require teamwork to watch a whole video.
  • Salpygidis
    5 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    Mostly disagree with your points here. The attrition system slows down the game to a point where I actually found squads defending points and not just running a damn ring around the map with everyone just pushing the next objective. I found myself as the squad lead watching over the map for spots and points being taken to plan out strategies on where to attack and what route to take. Previous titles, especially BF1, made almost 0 difference if you were in a squad or not. I could have just played COD if I wanted to be a rouge dog. This helps lean towards teamwork and squad structure actually meaning something which is something I have always looked towards battlefield for. The attrition tied with the new rez mechanic and fortifications makes it feel like more than just a run and gun game. Every time my ammo depleted and I was down to my pistol or my health was low without a pouch was actually a thrill of me sprinting through or playing sneaky to find a crate or have that angel ally supply me with what I needed. I'm not looking for a big COD game with better graphics. I'm looking for an fps with multiple dimensions of game play to consider at everyone moment instead of just sprinting corners and seeing who can ADS quicker. This is meant to be a war game, and to directly reference one point you made, "I am on my last mag, should i play it safe or engage those two enemies". You see it as the decision between fighting and grabbing ammo. I see it as, am I good enough to take down those 2 people with 1 mag and a pistol and still make it to base with resources or an ally who can assist me. This is obviously all a matter of opinion but to me these systems are making it feel more like a war vs a large solo dog K/D is all that matters casual arena.
  • Micas99
    816 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited October 2018
    Micas99 wrote: »
    Dice's statements serve only to reassure themselves that they haven't destroyed Battlefield. They know it's a train wreck but to admit it would make them look like idiots.. so they'll go down with the ship and blame it all on the players.

    Dice.. delay the game another 3 months and fix it.. and while you're at it, fix that nightmare of a UI that somebody thought is "new and innovative". You know.. just go copy BF4. Everyone will be happier.

    How about they don't copy BF4.
    I'd rather the game work at launch instead of waiting a year for it to be fixed. I'd also like the weapons to actually be different instead of all being variants of the same thing.
    And of course, I'd like to not have premium split the community.

    This thread is about design. Obviously I wasn't asking Dice to copy the technical glitches that plagued the BF4 launch. The BF5 guns aren't variants of each other, but having variants allows a player to kit out his arsenal to exactly his play style.. pros make cons, so it's a meaningful choice. And I was not suggesting that DLC be a PPV thing again. What I was talking about is actually having a UI that is intuitive and functional.. you know.. like the bit where you have to quit a match in order to utilize a new upgrade and such.. or the clickfest that is trying to find out where your upgrades are. Battlelog was awesome.

    Essentially the design of BF4 was a huge success. Everyone knows there were technical problems, but that doesn't mean anything in the context of BF5. So make the new game BF4 design, in a WWII setting, with the technical upgrades from BF1 and up to BF5. I'd mention RSP and procon.. but alas.

    I like to push the W key pretty much constantly. It's my style. I die a lot. My squad mates never keep up. Attrition will ruin what I like to do. Some will say that I need to play the way Dice wants me to. I'd just rather not play it at all if I'm forced to change, which is a shame when the game could cater to everyone's preference... you know... like BF4.
  • JamieCurnock
    616 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Attrition is good for certain situations, it's not all doing and gloom.

    1. It makes you more thoughtful and selective of your target. This might reduced those moments when random squad mates spam fire at people clearly out of their range to take down quickly, enemy takes hit, notices you, alerts their team, you get destroyed because your position was given away.
    2. Increases the importance of the support and medic role which empahsises team work
    3. Prevents recon from sitting on a camp spot all match away from the team and objectives, therefore providing no team/squad benefit.
    4. May reduce lone wolf players (not that sure they are an issue tho tbh, in my experience if you play lone wolf all the time you're probably a pretty competent player)

    I got to 4 and couldn't think of any more. Lolz.

    I know there are a load of down sides so don't go berating me for this, im just trying to stay positive as we have all heard the negatives over and over and over again.
  • JamieCurnock
    616 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Honestly, the attrition system is becoming a deal breaker for me. It's hard enough getting someone to drop health/ammo/revive when they're in your squad, it sure as hell doesn't happen when they're blueberries. Hell in BF4 I've spammed the ammo callout, typed to the player, shot at them repeatedly with my sidearm, jumped in front of them, only for my best option to be letting them die, stealing their kit, dropping ammo and then kit swapping back.

    No system is ever, EVER going to make oblivious players change their ways. This attrition system just hurts everyone else.

    In my opinion this is competely down to not knowing someone needs ammo/health. Dice need to put something into the game where if you call for ammo/health I am prompted on screen to do so. Hearing characters shout in German in bf1 for instance is no help, I don't speak German.

    If you spam the call-out, jump up and down and so on but if im in the middle of tracking someone, shooting someone etc then im going to ignore you.... for a moment. It might be to protect myself, might be because im in the middle of something, I will get to it once im done, if you die in the meantime then sorry but that's tough, the game isn't all about you and making sure you are stocked up.
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