Not a competitive nor a hardcore gamer, so I am out?

«1
aWorthlesCasual
17 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
This is not my first post about the inbalancment in Dice games, you free to read the oder posts.

Just explaining the title, since spending some time (Bf1 ~600 hour wasted from life, Bf2 ~200) I come to the revelation that in modern pvp based games you can be effective if you play the game religiously, in hardcore competitive way, either most of the time you will die from interesting ranges, angles in milisecs, causing the deploy screen becoming your best friend.

Don't get me wrong, there are times when a usless noncompetitve like myself can shine, maybe the spirits of my great grandfathers possess me in these times who fought in ww1, idk, or i become one with the force when playing Bf2. So there are good matches, ofc, but these are the few, the steamroll still a thing, on a personal level I stopped caring about how many time i got instakilled by full level platoon players.

Which leads back to the question, does it make sense to play these, if I can't and don't want to bring it to a competitve, half-professional level? Do I have my place and role in the given team, or just a target for high K:D ratios? Is this a turning point in the history of pvp gaming where the games mostly inhabited by pro gamers, and the lesser casuals get the gaming experience from professionals playing in videos, streams?
These are the questions I raise to myself, that where the problem may lie, am I too inferior to others, is it normal to have this kind of balance, what is my worth?

Comments

  • LOLGotYerTags
    9321 postsMember, Moderator, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Moderator
    You're just as much an asset to your team regardless of your skills and abilities.

    As long as you :
    • Spot enemies ( Q key ) and / or fire a spotting flare towards enemy locations as a scout
    • Drop health and revive fallen teammates as a Medic
    • Drop ammo and repair friendly vehicles using the wrench as the Support
    • Attack enemy vehicles using the Assault class

    As well as defend and attack objectives, You will do just fine.

    It's not all about being a modern day Rambo, You could go 100 kills to 0 deaths and still lose a match as you simply cannot outkill a ticket burn no matter how hard you try to.
  • cso7777
    476 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited October 14
    Playing the objective is fine, but if you get murdered all the time it becomes frustrating. Being an asset to your team should be fun also.
    • Play defensively and slow, don't be the first at the objectives. Keep close to your team/squad (let them be "human shields" by going first). Support/medic is good for this.
    • Always be in cover (always), use the environment/buildings/etc for covering as many angles as possible when moving. Never stand still without cover.
    • Learn to aim. Good aim can win a lot of gun-fights (read about mouse-settings in gaming in general).

    If you do the above, your gameplay will become less frustrating. It's not needed to take it to an pro level, but even as an "casual player" the above works. It becomes 'second nature' pretty quick.

    I have stopped worrying myself whether my team wins or looses. I go for a fun game, where I know I did my best. The balance is pretty random, so unless it becomes a 'stomp' it doesn't really matter.

    I always find my worst experience, is when I just rush everything, which never ends well...
  • BigF33t_13
    6406 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    I don't think the game claims to be either.
  • buckiebull
    42 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member

    LOLGotYerTags, you being a Moderator do you know what is going on with the game today?
  • Oskool_007
    487 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    edited October 14
    #1 rule is to have fun. If that means sitting on a hill with a sniper rifle and never capping a single flag, so be it. As long as you're having fun.

    That's why DICE's new attrition system in BFV is so horrible. It tries to force players to play the game a certain way. Who wants to be told how to have fun?

    Then there's DICE's built-in team stack system called "squad join". A feature like that belongs in a match making system where squads are matched against each other in a competitive mode. Team stacking doesn't belong on public servers.

    Like I said, just play to have fun. Don't care about your team winning the round. Just do your own thing. If your team is getting beat hard and spawn trapped, then find another server with more balanced teams. That's what I do.

  • LOLGotYerTags
    9321 postsMember, Moderator, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Moderator
    buckiebull wrote: »
    LOLGotYerTags, you being a Moderator do you know what is going on with the game today?

    If I did I'd be able to dive into discussions about it and pass on messages, But I just don't I'm afraid.
  • buckiebull
    42 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    buckiebull wrote: »
    LOLGotYerTags, you being a Moderator do you know what is going on with the game today?

    If I did I'd be able to dive into discussions about it and pass on messages, But I just don't I'm afraid.

    Ok cheers anyway i'm sure someone will tell us what went wrong yesterday!
  • UsainskiSemperFi
    255 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    edited October 15
    You're just as much an asset to your team regardless of your skills and abilities.

    As long as you :
    • Spot enemies ( Q key ) and / or fire a spotting flare towards enemy locations as a scout
    • Drop health and revive fallen teammates as a Medic
    • Drop ammo and repair friendly vehicles using the wrench as the Support
    • Attack enemy vehicles using the Assault class

    As well as defend and attack objectives, You will do just fine.

    It's not all about being a modern day Rambo, You could go 100 kills to 0 deaths and still lose a match as you simply cannot outkill a ticket burn no matter how hard you try to.

    i stop reading on ''spot enemies''.
  • Fw-JPhysics
    404 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    edited October 15
    @aWorthlesCasual
    Simple answer - If you enjoy playing it, game on. If you don't, or you find it too frustrating .... then why bother, after all its just there for entertainment value.
    There is a large range of skill levels based within the player base, and if everyone was playing more collectively as a team, playing smart and pushing forward, there would be far more satisfying rounds, regardless if your team won or lost. It is when players/teams don't even try that you get the severe steamrolling and dissatisfaction. Unfortunately no balancer can accomodate bad decision making.
    Each to their own, but in my own personal opinion, the objective is not to have fun. The objective is to win, and you compete against the other team trying to accomplish that. You get enjoyment and have fun whilst doing this, thats the difference. Try to avoid doing own thing unless you have to, its meant to be a team orrientated game so if you aren't there to play as a team (and many aren't), you're probably playing the wrong game.
  • Zz_Nabu_zZ
    337 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Oskool_007 wrote: »
    #1 rule is to have fun. If that means sitting on a hill with a sniper rifle and never capping a single flag, so be it. As long as you're having fun.

    That's why DICE's new attrition system in BFV is so horrible. It tries to force players to play the game a certain way. Who wants to be told how to have fun?


    I completly think otherwise.
    That's exactly how Dice was thinking and why they wouldn't put a snip/class limit, paired with a dumb mechanic (sweetspot) and now we see the disaster BF1 was.
    You think anyone is having fun when 80% of the game are one sided because there are 15 snipers in the losing team?
    Yes, there is a way to play the game, and it's definitely not with 40 snipers on the server, so players should be told how to play it properly, for the sake of the game.
    I'm glad attrition is coming with BFV, among others gameplay mechanics.
  • cso7777
    476 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited October 15
    Zz_Nabu_zZ wrote: »
    I completly think otherwise.
    That's exactly how Dice was thinking and why they wouldn't put a snip/class limit, paired with a dumb mechanic (sweetspot) and now we see the disaster BF1 was.
    You think anyone is having fun when 80% of the game are one sided because there are 15 snipers in the losing team?
    Yes, there is a way to play the game, and it's definitely not with 40 snipers on the server, so players should be told how to play it properly, for the sake of the game.
    I'm glad attrition is coming with BFV, among others gameplay mechanics.
    This has been a "dream" for as long as I remember. In BF3 and BF4 people complained about the same thing (too many snipers/no teamplay), and nothing has really changed to this day.

    A lot of people will play 'lone-wolf', no matter what the game-designers do to the game-mechanics. And if the sniper-class is limited, they will just play something else.

    Been playing a lot of BF4 lately, which have less snipers than BF1. The team-play in that game is much worse than BF1, you get much less ammo and health/revives in general. Also many games are as unbalanced as BF1's games are. Often the games are a lot of headless chickens running around "PTFO'ing", getting totally destroyed by a few organized squads.

    Most of the BF-players are "casual players", that doesn't play in clans or organized squads. They will play 'unorganized'.

    And the game should be fun, not some kind of work/task that just has to be done...
  • NamelessForNow
    1271 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    You're just as much an asset to your team regardless of your skills and abilities.

    As long as you :
    • Spot enemies ( Q key ) and / or fire a spotting flare towards enemy locations as a scout
    • Drop health and revive fallen teammates as a Medic
    • Drop ammo and repair friendly vehicles using the wrench as the Support
    • Attack enemy vehicles using the Assault class

    As well as defend and attack objectives, You will do just fine.

    It's not all about being a modern day Rambo, You could go 100 kills to 0 deaths and still lose a match as you simply cannot outkill a ticket burn no matter how hard you try to.

    i stop reading on ''spot enemies''.

    Why?
  • Caustic
    14 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    This is not my first post about the inbalancment in Dice games, you free to read the oder posts.

    Just explaining the title, since spending some time (Bf1 ~600 hour wasted from life, Bf2 ~200) I come to the revelation that in modern pvp based games you can be effective if you play the game religiously, in hardcore competitive way, either most of the time you will die from interesting ranges, angles in milisecs, causing the deploy screen becoming your best friend.

    Don't get me wrong, there are times when a usless noncompetitve like myself can shine, maybe the spirits of my great grandfathers possess me in these times who fought in ww1, idk, or i become one with the force when playing Bf2. So there are good matches, ofc, but these are the few, the steamroll still a thing, on a personal level I stopped caring about how many time i got instakilled by full level platoon players.

    Which leads back to the question, does it make sense to play these, if I can't and don't want to bring it to a competitve, half-professional level? Do I have my place and role in the given team, or just a target for high K:D ratios? Is this a turning point in the history of pvp gaming where the games mostly inhabited by pro gamers, and the lesser casuals get the gaming experience from professionals playing in videos, streams?
    These are the questions I raise to myself, that where the problem may lie, am I too inferior to others, is it normal to have this kind of balance, what is my worth?

    I have nearly 500 hours into the game, full of mostly decent play. If you are getting instantly killed by weapons that DON'T kill instantly under any circumstance, its a pretty good indication that there is something wrong with your connection. The other day the following happened to me:

    Playing a Flame Trooper running across the Somme on Shock Operations, I turned and saw an enemy Medic on low health walking towards me. I opened up and covered him in flames. He took no damage at all and 1 shotted me from the front with a melee weapon from full health. A player in your position might assume I just got outplayed, but experience tells me that a 1 shot melee from the front is impossible. From his end, he probably saw a knife in the back. This led me to conclude there was a 1.5-2 second lag gap between us.

    I reset the router and eliminated all other sources of delay in the port forwarding. The problem disappeared almost immediately. The moral of the story is when clearly BS things start happening to you that are impossible in the normal context of the game (getting 1 shotted by anything that's not a sniper is a good indicator) check your connections and reset your router. Odds are, its not your fault.
  • Oskool_007
    487 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    cso7777 wrote: »
    Zz_Nabu_zZ wrote: »
    I completly think otherwise.
    That's exactly how Dice was thinking and why they wouldn't put a snip/class limit, paired with a dumb mechanic (sweetspot) and now we see the disaster BF1 was.
    You think anyone is having fun when 80% of the game are one sided because there are 15 snipers in the losing team?
    Yes, there is a way to play the game, and it's definitely not with 40 snipers on the server, so players should be told how to play it properly, for the sake of the game.
    I'm glad attrition is coming with BFV, among others gameplay mechanics.
    This has been a "dream" for as long as I remember. In BF3 and BF4 people complained about the same thing (too many snipers/no teamplay), and nothing has really changed to this day.

    A lot of people will play 'lone-wolf', no matter what the game-designers do to the game-mechanics. And if the sniper-class is limited, they will just play something else.

    Been playing a lot of BF4 lately, which have less snipers than BF1. The team-play in that game is much worse than BF1, you get much less ammo and health/revives in general. Also many games are as unbalanced as BF1's games are. Often the games are a lot of headless chickens running around "PTFO'ing", getting totally destroyed by a few organized squads.

    Most of the BF-players are "casual players", that doesn't play in clans or organized squads. They will play 'unorganized'.

    And the game should be fun, not some kind of work/task that just has to be done...

    Well said. Especially the part about "headless chickens running around "PTFO'ing", getting totally destroyed by a few organized squads." So true.

    DICE has this delusional belief that a bunch of random casuals are going to band together into organized squads and play the game at an eSports level. It's never worked out that way, and it never will.

    You should see the latest video of the BFV voice actor shouting PTFO! I cringed a little.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/Battlefield/status/1051880592608915457
  • LOLGotYerTags
    9321 postsMember, Moderator, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Moderator

    i stop reading on ''spot enemies''.

    Something you don't do I presume?

    Spotting enemies as a scout benefits the other classes that are likely to be closer to enemy troops.

    Y'know.. the whole working together as a team and with your squad.
  • DaveTheBrave_USA
    130 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    edited October 16

    i stop reading on ''spot enemies''.

    Something you don't do I presume?

    Spotting enemies as a scout benefits the other classes that are likely to be closer to enemy troops.

    Y'know.. the whole working together as a team and with your squad.

    That's right. My K/D ratio has always been in the toilet, but I drop a lot of supply/health, have reviving down to a art and since my son showed me you don't hold the Q down to spot, but just tap it I'm spotting my ### off. So I think I do a lot for my side and my squad although it's pretty unrecognized on the scoreboard screen.
  • DaveTheBrave_USA
    130 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    cso7777 wrote: »
    Playing the objective is fine, but if you get murdered all the time it becomes frustrating. Being an asset to your team should be fun also.
    • Play defensively and slow, don't be the first at the objectives. Keep close to your team/squad (let them be "human shields" by going first). Support/medic is good for this.
    • Always be in cover (always), use the environment/buildings/etc for covering as many angles as possible when moving. Never stand still without cover.
    • Learn to aim. Good aim can win a lot of gun-fights (read about mouse-settings in gaming in general).

    If you do the above, your gameplay will become less frustrating. It's not needed to take it to an pro level, but even as an "casual player" the above works. It becomes 'second nature' pretty quick.

    I have stopped worrying myself whether my team wins or looses. I go for a fun game, where I know I did my best. The balance is pretty random, so unless it becomes a 'stomp' it doesn't really matter.

    I always find my worst experience, is when I just rush everything, which never ends well...

    Excellent advice.
  • DaveTheBrave_USA
    130 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    This is not my first post about the inbalancment in Dice games, you free to read the oder posts.

    Just explaining the title, since spending some time (Bf1 ~600 hour wasted from life, Bf2 ~200) I come to the revelation that in modern pvp based games you can be effective if you play the game religiously, in hardcore competitive way, either most of the time you will die from interesting ranges, angles in milisecs, causing the deploy screen becoming your best friend.

    Don't get me wrong, there are times when a usless noncompetitve like myself can shine, maybe the spirits of my great grandfathers possess me in these times who fought in ww1, idk, or i become one with the force when playing Bf2. So there are good matches, ofc, but these are the few, the steamroll still a thing, on a personal level I stopped caring about how many time i got instakilled by full level platoon players.

    Which leads back to the question, does it make sense to play these, if I can't and don't want to bring it to a competitve, half-professional level? Do I have my place and role in the given team, or just a target for high K:D ratios? Is this a turning point in the history of pvp gaming where the games mostly inhabited by pro gamers, and the lesser casuals get the gaming experience from professionals playing in videos, streams?
    These are the questions I raise to myself, that where the problem may lie, am I too inferior to others, is it normal to have this kind of balance, what is my worth?

    Don't feel bad about yourself. Use the advice above in the thread and you'll improve. Also keep in mind that unlike in platform games like Xbox and PlayStation where all players are using exactly the same things, players on PCs have various levels of PC equipment. Some real high end players have rigs that cost many thousands of dollars and with hi res views that may span 2 or more screens. They may be able to see minute details at 200 frames per second and also their tuning of what they want to display and what they don't is just right. So with that in mind just do the best you can with what you got, like I do.

    Also look at your mouse tuning to be sure the sensitivity is enough but not too much for quick movement, aiming and firing. Look into a good gaming mouse-pad, they are larger and give more room to move the mouse. Also look into a good gaming wrist pad to go in front of the keyboard. I don't remember if we can recommend manufacturers of products on this forum so I won't but look on Amazon.

    So, again there are lot of factors involved that affect performance, so don't get down on yourself.
  • Zz_Nabu_zZ
    337 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    cso7777 wrote: »
    Zz_Nabu_zZ wrote: »
    I completly think otherwise.
    That's exactly how Dice was thinking and why they wouldn't put a snip/class limit, paired with a dumb mechanic (sweetspot) and now we see the disaster BF1 was.
    You think anyone is having fun when 80% of the game are one sided because there are 15 snipers in the losing team?
    Yes, there is a way to play the game, and it's definitely not with 40 snipers on the server, so players should be told how to play it properly, for the sake of the game.
    I'm glad attrition is coming with BFV, among others gameplay mechanics.
    This has been a "dream" for as long as I remember. In BF3 and BF4 people complained about the same thing (too many snipers/no teamplay), and nothing has really changed to this day.

    A lot of people will play 'lone-wolf', no matter what the game-designers do to the game-mechanics. And if the sniper-class is limited, they will just play something else.

    Been playing a lot of BF4 lately, which have less snipers than BF1. The team-play in that game is much worse than BF1, you get much less ammo and health/revives in general. Also many games are as unbalanced as BF1's games are. Often the games are a lot of headless chickens running around "PTFO'ing", getting totally destroyed by a few organized squads.

    Most of the BF-players are "casual players", that doesn't play in clans or organized squads. They will play 'unorganized'.

    And the game should be fun, not some kind of work/task that just has to be done...

    In BF3 i was part of a community and we had our own server, no weapon restriction but snipers really weren't a problem.
    In BF4 i played in HC on servers with snip limit, the gameplay was fine and teamplay with randoms was way better than BF1.
    Maybe it's because i stayed away from officials server that i think the level was better in BF3/BF4, players are not the same.
    A proper RSP would have solved many things that make BF1's gameplay pretty boring and would give us a better experience.
    Dice thought they figured everything out and all we had to do was playing by the rules they made, well, it didin't end up very well.
  • IG-Calibre
    963 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    I really honestly don't think there is a single multiplayer FPS out there that casual players don't get chewed up & spat out in. folk who play the game morning, noon & night are going to be more accomplished at it than people who don't, this shouldn't really come as a shock to anyone. How salty a mauling leaves you is the deciding factor, but really there is no shame, if you're not having a good time on a server, just find another one, maybe it will favour your abilities better in that instance. or, you know, there's always solitaire.
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