Grand Operations doesn't feel grander than BF1 Operations. (LONG POST)

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FiretickDB
9 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
edited November 2018
I would like to preface this by saying that this is entirely my opinion, but I found that this opinion is shared by few other people when I asked around. It seems like Grand Operations (GO) in BFV just doesn't compare to BF1 Operations. Skip to the paragraph about modes if you want my main gripe.

For starters, BF1 Operations had a better sense of immersion. You were given the thoughts of various soldiers from their respective nations in their languages, and it didn't get old. When you had to charge forward, you would hear whistles blowing as men screamed and charged forward into a storm of gunfire and bullets, there was no better feeling. You don't really get this feeling in BFV, but it's a minor complaint.

Now another problem with GO is that you're not really fighting for something, by this I mean that back in BF1 Ops, you had to attack or defend across several sectors in a map. There really was a tangible sense that you were fighting for something. If you attacked, you needed to attack strong so you can move onto the next map or win the Op, if you defended well enough you could successfully stop them from moving onto the next map, or even win the op, this gave a motivation to fight since there were serious consequences. With GO, the mode will shift regardless of the previous result, "We successfully defended, but let's retreat anyway", the only affect I notice is something along the lines "enemy reinforcements delayed" or "enemy tickets reduced". I wonder if they'll let a GO end if the defenders stopped the attackers (at least for modes like Breakthrough or Conquest Assault, which leads to my next point)

The absolute biggest problem with GO are the modes. With BF1, the absolute shining star of that game was Operations, now called Breakthrough. In that mode the attackers had 3 battalions to attack across several sectors across several maps, while the defenders had to stand their ground and hold the line. This, in my opinion, is the best mode to ever be created in a Battlefield game. It essentially forces everything Battlefield into one area. You had defined frontlines that created protracted battles and gunfights, which forced the chaos of all out warfare that Battlefield excels in. You had artillery raining down on positions of either sides, as vehicles fought to gain an advantage with players having to fight ferociously either trying to relentlessly push forward or desperately try to hold the line. This is probably one of my favourites modes to ever play in any videogame ever, and it's the reason why have I have 900+ hours in BF1.

In GO, it essentially plays as glorified mix mode/map playlist. Some of the game modes just don't work well in this attack/defend setting, the primary culprit is Conquest as the pace is much slower and the engagement are far and few between, and it essentially plays like whack-a-mole where you just run to the next flag not owned by your team. The rounds are too short in my opinion, I much preferred the length of BF1 Operations. The different "days" in a GO don't make you feel like you're fighting on the same map instead the days are treated as distinct maps, by this I mean that any destruction or fortifications from one day does not transfer over to the next day on that same map, which is something I am surprised by since fortifications and destructions lends itself brilliantly if you let players develop them over an extended period of time. I feel like fortifications has some great long term in-map gameplay effects if they were allowed to be developed, rather than something short term. I will say that certains modes do work really well with GO, namely Airborne, Breakthrough and Frontlines.

I understand the devs are trying to get people to play multiple modes, and they are trying to cut down the round lengths since I'm guessing either casual players didn't like the length of BF1 Operations or the devs themselves think the length is excessive.

BF1 Operations was the reason I really enjoyed BF1. I do not get the same feeling with BFV. I will wait and see if the Breakthrough mode in BFV similar to BF1 in length and intensity. Again this is just my opinion, but I wanted to voice it and see if other people felt the same. Thank you for reading.

EDIT: Another problem I've noticed is that it's possible to win (or lose) the Grand Operation even though you lost (or won) the first two days. Makes the first couple of days seem pointless. As others have iterated in this thread, it takes away the sense of accomplishment when the you win or lose but the operational narrative draws it up as a loss or win.

EDIT: This video represents my views well:
Post edited by FiretickDB on

Comments

  • Ameriken05
    451 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    I agree 100% with you. So far I have been extremely turned off by the overall lack of narrative or sense of progression in the GO. It just goes to the next map with or without a spawn bonus. It is very unclear how the overall GO is progressing or who is actually winning, and what must be done for the remainder of the operation to win or avoid a Game 4 Final Stand. This was all very straightforward in BF1 and yes the "breakthrough" mode made for some of the best, focused, frontline fighting. At all times you knew the status and stakes of the operation. Now it is not so clear, then you jump to Conquest and it fizzles completely. I still think a mix of Breakthrough, Frontlines, and Rush could work for GO - but yes overall I'd have to agree I'm underwhelmed by BFV GO as they are not nearly as epic as BF1 Operations.
  • phoenix1368
    102 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Agree, grand op should be a 5 days game (4 regular days + final stand)
    3 days is too short
  • X_Bischof_X
    5 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    100% agree, this doesn't feel like operations anymore, all the immersion is gone.
    I hope they bring back operation like in bf1, in bfv operations are kind of boring....
  • JamieCurnock
    737 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    I'm hoping that the breakthrough mode can be played as a standalone game mode. When loading this mode in the beta it would just put you into a breakthrough section of grand operations. Once that is finished it would then leave you in grand operations.

    I want to play the bf5 equivalent of bf1 operations which as far as I can tell is called breakthrough. No one playing this game mode on the servers last night tho, hoping that will change after release.
  • Normandie-I944
    69 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    I am really happy that someone from the forums sum up my feelings towards the new grand operations so perfectly.
    I have played every single operations in BF1 hundreds of times and I am still enjoying every single match because of the chaotic, all-out frontline feeling this game mode provides. Even though I played every ops several times I am still enjoying the intro animation of each operation. The speech of soldiers in their original language really set the mood so I am completely devastated seeing that this intro section totally disappeared from the new game (I guess it was just easier and cheaper to go this dumbed down way).

    Just a side note: seeing German Fallschirmjagers jumping into the battle from C47 Skytrains is another proof that the whole grand operations game mode is just a washed out and rushed version of the original operations game mode from BF1.
  • MogwaiWarrior
    967 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    OP mentioned Breakthrough. Isn't it supposed to be like BF1 Operations?
  • FiretickDB
    9 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Glad to see there are people who feel the same way as me.
    OP mentioned Breakthrough. Isn't it supposed to be like BF1 Operations?

    Supposedly it's meant to play the same as BF1 Operations, but instead of having 3 attacks across several maps, it's 1 attack across a single map. It's vastly reduced in scale. It seems to be more akin to Shock Operations from BF1.
  • FiretickDB
    9 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Bump to get more opinions from people.
  • trip1ex
    5232 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Operations blew in BF1 but was the 2nd most popular mode so feel for those who liked it. Yes it was garbage but it was garbage loved by a decent chunk of players.

  • FiretickDB
    9 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    trip1ex wrote: »
    Yes it was garbage but it was garbage loved by a decent chunk of players.

    Can you explain why you thought it was garbage? Was it the constant action and meat grinders?
  • IIRogueMachineII
    1337 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Didn't fully read OP's comment but i agree. Grand Operations is nothing like it should be, its just an excuse to throw conquest a chance of shining again. Frontlines and Conquest shouldn't be in grand operations. The sole selling point to me of Operations in BF1 was the linearity of it, i.e always actions and most of the time only having to look in 1 maybe 2 directions. Breakthrough as BF1 operations is called now is what all maps should be played with in Grand Operations, 2 or 3 flag point needed to be held simultaneously to move to the next sector. Airborne part makes sense to a point and i'm fine with it except the bomb carrier should be dorritoed. As soon as Airborne is done it should revert to BF1 operations. The biggest problem around the whole multiple modes in Grand Operations is the fact that the maps are soo big most will just stay on certain flags, especially in the Conquest format thus meaning you can go a while without seeing anyone.

    As OP says its overly pointless as he said regardless of if you hold the attackers it still moves on to the next map!!! So what's the point in it. It should move on until you actually win that map whether that takes all 3 attacks like in BF1 or not, ive been in 2 maybe 3 fuster cluck rounds where we've not taken all objectives 1 even spawn trapped essentially on Hamada yet we moved on to airodrome!!!
  • phoenix1368
    102 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited November 2018
    Absolutely agreed
    Airborne and breakthough, frontline, are all make sense. Conquest in grand op just does not make sense. More importantly, 3 in game days. I dont get it . I dont feel be rewarded if I win in the day 1. GO is bad. I just felt that dice did not have the time to polish the game, so that they just put three separated game together and call it grand op
  • azelenkin0306
    565 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Wait a second, so now Grand Operations include various game modes, including Conquest?
  • deevo82
    22 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Fully agree with OP.

    Rush mode in BF3 was exceptional.

    It fell off a bit in BF4 as the key marketing point was levolution that took place on Conquest.

    Operations on BF1 was another marketing strategy that was so successful that it destroyed Rush. I actually think this was an an unexpected success by the devs.

    The key factor in this experience is quick access to a glut of enemies for instant action in a linear battle. This is also why 5 flag Conquest on maps like Operation Locker or Metro was so popular as you were thrown into chaos in a head to head fight.

    I think Dice have tried to sanitise the experience. Nade spam has been wiped out. There is no spotting anymore. And Grand Operations is a sterile experience that has no point to it. It is just a mix mode server with someone called Jeremy in the marketing department trying to pitch it as a USP.

    I like Conquest now and again but BF5 is just people running in circles with no one to shoot.
  • BigNibbaDuck
    16 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Yup, been hating this "new " Operations". its awful now. Mainly because i absolutely hate conquest. Just running around in circles with your team, losing and recapturing points. It feel like a broken mode because people never defend.
    Now we can only hope RUSH will be good (and 64 players!!!) but then again they are only having it for a limited time....... Whyyyyyyyyy.

    I hate hoe does things. if something works, why mess with it. Rush worked, they messed with it in BF1. Operations was great, now they had to go and screw it up also. Don't fix what isn't broken dice!
  • LinkZeppeloyd
    994 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    FiretickDB wrote: »
    trip1ex wrote: »
    Yes it was garbage but it was garbage loved by a decent chunk of players.

    Can you explain why you thought it was garbage? Was it the constant action and meat grinders?

    Metro turned into a mode. Mindless meat grind with enemies only in front of you. Nade spamming in choke points.

    Battlefield used to be Conquest, and Conquest was Battlefield. Every mode they’ve added chips away at this game soul. Linearity is anti-matter to a Battlefield game.
  • thisisbullfewgfe
    2 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    spot on was thinking this myself, bring back operations and rush !
  • JamieCurnock
    737 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    I'm gutted. I hoped breakthrough could be played as a stand alone mode but nope! When you select breakthrough you are just put into a breakthrough stage of grand operations!?!?!!! Once that is over you carry on playing grand operations even tho I selected breakthrough game mode.. ffs!!!

    They have absolutely destroyed operations. Why can't they have grand operations as it is and have breakthrough as a separate game mode that rotates from map to map.

    Sometimes dices design choices blow my mind.
  • xMotherloadx
    14 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    /sign OP
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