Medic weapons are garbage. And bipoted campers, the way this game is meant to be played? [RANT]

Comments

  • Major_Pungspark
    1488 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Gforce81 wrote: »
    I made it to Medic level 16 last night after quite a struggle. Got sort of comfortable with the EMP, had my eyes on the MP34

    It definitely has more range to it, but as many other have said, you shoot yourself in the foot in CQB with the lesser ROF. I didn't opt for the ROF upgrade cause I thought: "If I'm going for increasing my ranged potency; why would I want to struggle to wrangle the upped ROF at that distance?"

    Its funny to hear that they all have the same spread. Yeah, that needs to be adjusted for sure. Totally nonsense that the meatgrinder SMG's like the Thompson and Suomi have the same spread as the "mid range" options i.e. MP34 - MP40.

    Dec. 4 can't come fast enough. I hope they have some serious adjustments for the SMG's; and honestly at this point, if they can't figure out why the TTD is so wonky and not matching the TTK, then maybe adjusting the TTK is the answer; for now at least

    Don't get me wrong, I love the potent feeling of the weapons, and there is nothing like wiping 3 guys with less than 1 mag cause you got an awesome flank.

    But on the flipside its just as deflating seeing a guy wielding some random AR (which I'm already starting to detest like I knew I would) at the exact same time, I raise my sights and just about pull the trigger when I'm already in the dirt.

    Good post.
    I have almost finished the Sten and I must say if how bad the smg's are in this game had not been brought up on this forum I wouldn't have complained about them being under powered . The Sten has been ok for me tbh but I do like to rush a lot and mainly play modes like frontlines. Not sure wether to try the EMP or Soumi next in my camo grind.

    As much rof as possible, then you win at close range and is almost as good at range as the other smgs as long as you burst.
  • Jonny_ChaosMCR
    1350 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    I love medic but not in this, I keep using it to try and unlock my progression trees to see how they shape up but every time I use that class it's a death sentence. The only time I use it now is if a rounds half finished and i'm going mega positive and can afford to drop a few deaths. The Gewehr 43 from assault is my saviour weapon, it's a beast but that's the type of stuff we had to play with in BF1. Now i've got an Automatico in disguise that paints outlines around enemies hahah. MP40 next, hope that's a bit better.
  • VincentNZ
    3559 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Vittich wrote: »
    VincentNZ wrote: »
    Vittich wrote: »
    Just completed the last MP40 gold-mastery.
    (which took me 4 rounds for the last 3 masteries)

    The gun is just insane, the whole medic kit perfectly fits together.

    Smokes, rushing in, killing your enemies with mp40 in cqc and heal yourself.

    I guess many people here think too stat-wise.
    Also i guess that many of you are not aiming down sight but instead using hipfire most.
    (The only time i did was for the different masteries).

    With the MP40 you have a brilliant way to kill almost anything - even snipers.
    Just dont spam autofire and try to use the MP40 as what it is: A rather slow firing precise SMG.
    In Bf4 you would have called this type Carbine ;)

    Except that Carbines had better spread values, more damage, better damage drop-off and a better ROF. :smiley:


    The medic guns are in exactly the same slot as carbines in BF4 - some of them also in the PDW category.

    You can't compare the spead value, damage or ROF - because if you do so you need to do this to the assault guns as well.
    I can't see a stg44 with 800-900rpm and 1000m range yet (compared to e.g. the AugA3). Also the spread of the assault weapons is immense too.


    BTT: The medic guns (mostly the MP40 and the Sten) are completely viable at the moment. I am no godlike player but still the MP40 is my best gun currently even though I played the 1-5 for over 1k kills.

    I bet many of the complainers think that SMGs are "hipfire only" and therefore upgrading the hipfire perks.

    Try to play the MP40 or Sten as a carbine - and I bet you will love them.

    You pulled the BF4 comparison, not me. ;) I think you are looking at this from the wrong end. The PDWs of BF4 were short range powerhouses, but they were viable at all relevant ranges. We also had shotguns. As far as short range weapons in BFV go, we still have shotgun and we have the SMGs. Carbines in BF4 were indeed the link between PDWs and ARs, but all three weapon classes still worked decently at all relevant ranges while having their own niche.
    Sten, MP40 and MP34 however do not work decently at all ranges, they are subpar in ALL relevant ranges and their performance gets worse with distance.
    -
    You are right that the Medic gets the self-heal, which is powerful, but balance issues can only be analyzed under equal conditions. And there the SMGs by far fall short. This needs to be addressed. However, even as a 100% medic, I want all classes to fully self-heal, so that every class is incentivized to push more, giving my SMGs a better chance to getting them at short range.
  • MadRussian13
    55 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    IMO smg’s definitley need a buff, but not an overhaul of the medic class. Maybe a little less recoil and a short range damage upgrade would help. Smg’s should almost never get outgunned by lmg’s in CQ. Everyone says manage your recoil better to those who think this, but it’s not so easy on console. Tap firing isn’t gonna cut it, it needs a buff.
    The smoke isn’t that effective so it’s used wrong for the most part. It takes a bit too long to revive, but not for the squad revive.
    The biggest problem is medics just do not revive, and about 90% of the time you couldn’t get one to actually throw you meds no matter what q they hear or see.
    LMG’s on the other hand are a joke in this game. I’m guessing over half my deaths are to bipoders. No clue how they could fix this but something needs to be done.
    And don’t even get me started on useles snipers
  • VindictiV_V
    1347 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Vittich wrote: »
    VincentNZ wrote: »
    Vittich wrote: »
    Just completed the last MP40 gold-mastery.
    (which took me 4 rounds for the last 3 masteries)

    The gun is just insane, the whole medic kit perfectly fits together.

    Smokes, rushing in, killing your enemies with mp40 in cqc and heal yourself.

    I guess many people here think too stat-wise.
    Also i guess that many of you are not aiming down sight but instead using hipfire most.
    (The only time i did was for the different masteries).

    With the MP40 you have a brilliant way to kill almost anything - even snipers.
    Just dont spam autofire and try to use the MP40 as what it is: A rather slow firing precise SMG.
    In Bf4 you would have called this type Carbine ;)

    Except that Carbines had better spread values, more damage, better damage drop-off and a better ROF. :smiley:


    The medic guns are in exactly the same slot as carbines in BF4 - some of them also in the PDW category.

    You can't compare the spead value, damage or ROF - because if you do so you need to do this to the assault guns as well.
    I can't see a stg44 with 800-900rpm and 1000m range yet (compared to e.g. the AugA3). Also the spread of the assault weapons is immense too.


    BTT: The medic guns (mostly the MP40 and the Sten) are completely viable at the moment. I am no godlike player but still the MP40 is my best gun currently even though I played the 1-5 for over 1k kills.

    I bet many of the complainers think that SMGs are "hipfire only" and therefore upgrading the hipfire perks.

    Try to play the MP40 or Sten as a carbine - and I bet you will love them.

    The topic has been discussed to death and everybody that played all classes knows that medic class suffers... a lot!
    • SMGs' niche is up to 9m. After 9m they go from 4 BTK to 5 (same BTK as the ARs). Also, SMGs go from 5BTK to 6 at 25m while ARs only become 6BTK at 50m.
    • ARs are INCREDIBLY more accurate
    • ARs also happens to have SIGNIFICANT faster RoF than SMGs beside suomi and thompson
    • ARs also have bigger mag capacities by default (31 vs 20) than a lot of SMGs (suomi, thompson, MP34 all only have 20 rounds)

    In short, unless you play on maps where it's only purely CQC of 9m and less (only in domination game mode essentially), then SMGs are simply outclassed in about every single way beside hipfire (which you would never use anyway against somebody that isn't in really close CQC). I'm a purely conquest player with some operation on the side and, as a bf1 medic main, it's just too painful to bother playing with SMGs. You're better off spawning as a medic, waiting for your friend to kill somebody and then get that person's weapons (unless he was a medic also lol). Maybe you like SMGs but facts don't care about opinions. Objectively speaking, SMGs are outclassed in every map or gamemode that isn't domination.

    Good post, if somewhat incorrect. As a Domination enthusiast, I can assure you that the vast majority of engagements are beyond extreme close range. Arras is the only exception.

    My bad lol I don't play domination but that's what I expected it to be. I guess I was giving this ridiculously puny niche of 9m even more credits than I should have ... that's even sadder!
  • VindictiV_V
    1347 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    VincentNZ wrote: »
    -
    You are right that the Medic gets the self-heal, which is powerful, but balance issues can only be analyzed under equal conditions. And there the SMGs by far fall short. This needs to be addressed. However, even as a 100% medic, I want all classes to fully self-heal, so that every class is incentivized to push more, giving my SMGs a better chance to getting them at short range.

    The "point" that medics can self heal or revive is even less significant than one could think when everybody can buddy revive and can self heal on the fly with a pocket med kit and resupply said pocket medkit or outright just heal himself at any medical crates that are at pretty much sitting on every single flag. Essentially, as long as you camp a crate, you don't need any medic.
  • bran1986
    5794 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    VincentNZ wrote: »
    Vittich wrote: »
    VincentNZ wrote: »
    Vittich wrote: »
    Just completed the last MP40 gold-mastery.
    (which took me 4 rounds for the last 3 masteries)

    The gun is just insane, the whole medic kit perfectly fits together.

    Smokes, rushing in, killing your enemies with mp40 in cqc and heal yourself.

    I guess many people here think too stat-wise.
    Also i guess that many of you are not aiming down sight but instead using hipfire most.
    (The only time i did was for the different masteries).

    With the MP40 you have a brilliant way to kill almost anything - even snipers.
    Just dont spam autofire and try to use the MP40 as what it is: A rather slow firing precise SMG.
    In Bf4 you would have called this type Carbine ;)

    Except that Carbines had better spread values, more damage, better damage drop-off and a better ROF. :smiley:


    The medic guns are in exactly the same slot as carbines in BF4 - some of them also in the PDW category.

    You can't compare the spead value, damage or ROF - because if you do so you need to do this to the assault guns as well.
    I can't see a stg44 with 800-900rpm and 1000m range yet (compared to e.g. the AugA3). Also the spread of the assault weapons is immense too.


    BTT: The medic guns (mostly the MP40 and the Sten) are completely viable at the moment. I am no godlike player but still the MP40 is my best gun currently even though I played the 1-5 for over 1k kills.

    I bet many of the complainers think that SMGs are "hipfire only" and therefore upgrading the hipfire perks.

    Try to play the MP40 or Sten as a carbine - and I bet you will love them.

    You pulled the BF4 comparison, not me. ;) I think you are looking at this from the wrong end. The PDWs of BF4 were short range powerhouses, but they were viable at all relevant ranges. We also had shotguns. As far as short range weapons in BFV go, we still have shotgun and we have the SMGs. Carbines in BF4 were indeed the link between PDWs and ARs, but all three weapon classes still worked decently at all relevant ranges while having their own niche.
    Sten, MP40 and MP34 however do not work decently at all ranges, they are subpar in ALL relevant ranges and their performance gets worse with distance.
    -
    You are right that the Medic gets the self-heal, which is powerful, but balance issues can only be analyzed under equal conditions. And there the SMGs by far fall short. This needs to be addressed. However, even as a 100% medic, I want all classes to fully self-heal, so that every class is incentivized to push more, giving my SMGs a better chance to getting them at short range.

    I think the advantage of self heals has been greatly diminished by the ability of other classes to spawn in with a medkit and the health stations everywhere to heal and grab another medkit. The average lifespan of a player in BF1 and BF4 was 40 seconds, I imagine in BFV it is less than that, so people are constantly spawning in with 100 health and a medkit.

    It is plain as day the issues with the smgs and medics. Smgs fall into two categories, the fast firing cqb guns like the Thompson, Suomi, and MP28 and the slow firing 'mid range" smgs the Sten, MP40, and MP34.

    So as a medic you can either go with the fast firing smgs to maximize your cqb power at the cost of not being able to hit anything past 15 or 20 meters or you can go with the slow firing smgs, give up cqb power for the ability to have more range.

    The problem is medics share that same 4btk range with all lmgs and the m1907 assault rifle. The m1907 assault rifle will beat every smg in cqb except the 900 rpm Suomi. The m1907 also keeps its 50 meter 5 btk range. The Ke7 easily competes with the slow firing smgs in cqb but also keeps a 50 meter 5 btk range as does all lmgs.

    Smgs go from a 4 btk at 9 meters to a 6 btk at just 25 meters. DICE considers 35 meters to be the start of "mid range". So the mid range smgs are crap and underpowered 10 meters before mid range even begins. This is why assaults and supports can hang back 30 or 40 meters and destroy medics with ease. If you are making slow firing smgs to be mid range guns, they need to perform and have power like mid range guns. Having smgs share their 4 btk range with two other classes and then giving them a 6btk at just 25 meters is putrid.
  • LEGATUS_ITALICUS
    388 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Playing domination is the way to go for medics
  • fakemon64
    898 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited November 2018
    i dont think smg's need that much of a buff, i believe medics just need a second weapon type in general.
  • SunnyTheWerewolf
    347 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    I'm worried that Dice will overcompensate and turn medic into a super-soldier of sorts. At first I was disappointed with the SMGs, but that was when I was trying to play this game like BF1. Honestly, I'd be fine without getting anymore range in the weaponry - just make the SMGs dominate within 20 meters.

    I didn't really play assault in BF1 and when I did, I used mainly Ribeyrolles, so SMGs felt very awkward to use initially, but I'm rather enjoying learning to play medic in a new way.

    I just hope they fix the revive, so that the guy doesn't stand up when prone and introduce the dragging mechanic finally.
  • bran1986
    5794 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited November 2018
    I'm worried that Dice will overcompensate and turn medic into a super-soldier of sorts. At first I was disappointed with the SMGs, but that was when I was trying to play this game like BF1. Honestly, I'd be fine without getting anymore range in the weaponry - just make the SMGs dominate within 20 meters.

    I didn't really play assault in BF1 and when I did, I used mainly Ribeyrolles, so SMGs felt very awkward to use initially, but I'm rather enjoying learning to play medic in a new way.

    I just hope they fix the revive, so that the guy doesn't stand up when prone and introduce the dragging mechanic finally.

    All they have to do is buff the max damage of smgs in the 4 btk range to give them an actual advantage in cqb. Extend the 4 btk range back out to 12m or 15m. Extend the 5btk out to 35 meters. Revert back to the beta spread and bullet velocity.
  • SunnyTheWerewolf
    347 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    bran1986 wrote: »
    I'm worried that Dice will overcompensate and turn medic into a super-soldier of sorts. At first I was disappointed with the SMGs, but that was when I was trying to play this game like BF1. Honestly, I'd be fine without getting anymore range in the weaponry - just make the SMGs dominate within 20 meters.

    I didn't really play assault in BF1 and when I did, I used mainly Ribeyrolles, so SMGs felt very awkward to use initially, but I'm rather enjoying learning to play medic in a new way.

    I just hope they fix the revive, so that the guy doesn't stand up when prone and introduce the dragging mechanic finally.

    All they have to do is buff the max damage of smgs in the 4 btk range to give them an actual advantage in cqb. Extend the 4 btk range back out to 12m or 15m. Extend the 5btk out to 35 meters. Revert back to the beta spread and bullet velocity.

    That sounds about right, but knowing Dice's history - it never is that easy.
  • markg316
    73 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    As I believe historically most medics were not armed, I think having an smg is a bonus.
    What you really need to do is not buff the weapon but make reviving and resupply of medical gear more rewarding.
    At least let me work on a patient prone. At the end of the day I find if I'm not happy with my smg just pick up any downed players weapon for insta upgrade. Simples.....Maybe if we start telling people the brain is an app they will start using it.
  • bran1986
    5794 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    markg316 wrote: »
    As I believe historically most medics were not armed, I think having an smg is a bonus.
    What you really need to do is not buff the weapon but make reviving and resupply of medical gear more rewarding.
    At least let me work on a patient prone. At the end of the day I find if I'm not happy with my smg just pick up any downed players weapon for insta upgrade. Simples.....Maybe if we start telling people the brain is an app they will start using it.

    This is a fps video game no one is going to play medic if you can't shoot people. People don't play medic as it is now because the weapons suck.
  • markg316
    73 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    bran1986 wrote: »
    markg316 wrote: »
    As I believe historically most medics were not armed, I think having an smg is a bonus.
    What you really need to do is not buff the weapon but make reviving and resupply of medical gear more rewarding.
    At least let me work on a patient prone. At the end of the day I find if I'm not happy with my smg just pick up any downed players weapon for insta upgrade. Simples.....Maybe if we start telling people the brain is an app they will start using it.

    This is a fps video game no one is going to play medic if you can't shoot people. People don't play medic as it is now because the weapons suck.

    Where did I say I don't or you cant shoot people. the fact is the medic is there to perform a certain role that is not being performed, because people just wanna run around or your too much of a target as you kneel to Heal. Did you know there's an App you can get... :D
  • Major_Pungspark
    1488 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    You can nag all day about medics not reviving, I have someone flipping out every other map about me sucking as medic when I don´t run out on an open field reviving someone that got sniped. I usually tell them some nice words and to try to die in better places....
  • mgood1845
    93 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    OP,

    I agree with you: I think that the Devs at Dice need to work on the medic class, and restructuring the weapons, I think the following is fair:

    Assult: Assult Rifles and Shotguns
    Support: LMG, MGs
    Medic: Single Action rifles, SMGs
    Snipers: standard Camper rifles (lolz)

    the medic class also doesn't have a great device to use other than smoke. when most engagements on maps are long to medium range, the SMG is at a disadvantage. I am thinking about my setup in BF1 and i ran smoke grenades, syringe and medical crate. While the crate was OP in BF1, a crate in BFV is useless, as throwing a pouch to resupply is much easier than having teammates interact with your box.


    I think most have said it before but their is def something up with the net code, and the BF1 system was perfect. Sometimes you don't even get to hear i'm being shot until the last bullet hits you and you insta die.

    Beyond the lack of useful gadgets, the revive mechanic which is no longer the instant revive with the medic class, is only slightly shorter than other teammates. So the only real purpose of running medic is to restock the teammates med pouches, they are useless at medium to long range engagements, and Assault rifles deal more damage per shot more accurately than any SMG does.


    IMO I think the dice devs should also deploy a window of invulnerability when a medic is reviving if the revive is no longer instant. ITS a war crime to shoot a medic! lol

    I thought there was going to be a drag mechanic to drag a teammate by limb to a safer location, and then revive but that didn't make it into this build of the game. Imagine hauling a lifeless body around a corner to revive, that would have been epic.



    Cliff Notes Summary:

    Switch weapons around via the classes
    Add some useful gadgets
    Work on revive times and abilities
    buff SMGs


  • Major_Pungspark
    1488 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited November 2018
    mgood1845 wrote: »
    OP,

    I agree with you: I think that the Devs at Dice need to work on the medic class, and restructuring the weapons, I think the following is fair:

    Assult: Assult Rifles and Shotguns
    Support: LMG, MGs
    Medic: Single Action rifles, SMGs
    Snipers: standard Camper rifles (lolz)

    the medic class also doesn't have a great device to use other than smoke. when most engagements on maps are long to medium range, the SMG is at a disadvantage. I am thinking about my setup in BF1 and i ran smoke grenades, syringe and medical crate. While the crate was OP in BF1, a crate in BFV is useless, as throwing a pouch to resupply is much easier than having teammates interact with your box.


    I think most have said it before but their is def something up with the net code, and the BF1 system was perfect. Sometimes you don't even get to hear i'm being shot until the last bullet hits you and you insta die.

    Beyond the lack of useful gadgets, the revive mechanic which is no longer the instant revive with the medic class, is only slightly shorter than other teammates. So the only real purpose of running medic is to restock the teammates med pouches, they are useless at medium to long range engagements, and Assault rifles deal more damage per shot more accurately than any SMG does.


    IMO I think the dice devs should also deploy a window of invulnerability when a medic is reviving if the revive is no longer instant. ITS a war crime to shoot a medic! lol

    I thought there was going to be a drag mechanic to drag a teammate by limb to a safer location, and then revive but that didn't make it into this build of the game. Imagine hauling a lifeless body around a corner to revive, that would have been epic.



    Cliff Notes Summary:

    Switch weapons around via the classes
    Add some useful gadgets
    Work on revive times and abilities
    buff SMGs


    Well, only smoked get you killed a lot, people know where the body is and some wise person thought it would be great if someone sat there for a couple of seconds.

    I dont think the revive time is that long but the entire revive process is to exposing
  • LEGATUS_ITALICUS
    388 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    They also have to buff the smoke grenades as well. I can see through and enemies too. Lost the time of how many times ive been killed behind smoke covers
  • Aegis_Kleais
    374 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    A balance pass to the SMG's won't help if this netcode is not brought in check. It's horrendous.
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