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The Plane Adjustments have BROKEN flying in BFV, and it has little to do with Bombers.

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Sonicjohnbh
12 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
edited December 6
I'm a pilot. I'm a good pilot, I'm by no means one of the best, but I fly whenever there is a plane to be flown. I've got nearly 100 hours in planes alone, I've upgraded almost every plane fully.

And this update scares me.

I started out BFV, like manyfolks, in the Beta. What I saw there were some REALLY fun planes that felt FAST, felt more smooth, more responsive and felt a little bit less like they were being propelled by fairy dust rather than the laws of physics. There was an obvious mis-match between the two fighters, but this was fixed by the time the full game launched

When the full game came out, I loved it even more. The Bombers of course were overpowered (namely the bleedingly fast JU-88), but the Blenheims for the most part felt fun and balanced, and provided really good pilots a chance to experiment in both Air-to-Ground and Air-to-Air disciplines. The fighters especially felt like a very fun and customizable tool, with the ability to be loaded out for either total Air-to-Air combat or a combination of that and Attack plane. I think any good pilot will agree that the ability to teamwipe at the beginning of a round was ridiculous (except for "pilots" who only took up flying for a chance to teamwipe with a bomber and do nothing else, claiming themselves "amazing" pilots for their efforts). I myself only flew the Junkers enough to upgrade it fully...which took ONE round. This is the level of ridiculous that the Junkers was. I shot down a dozen enemy fighters with my forward guns, I could often outmaneuver fighters with Nitrous. It, was, stupid. Conversely I enjoyed using the Blenheim 1 to do light carpet bombs, strafe the enemy and paradrop friendly troops behind enemy lines with the Paradrop specialization. It felt HELPFUL in a unique way, and it didn't feel overpowered. As a note, this was not something exclusive to the Junkers, or even to bombers. I recalled one instance wherein I was flying a Explosive 20mm and Rocket equipped BF-109 and on a beginning of round sweep on Arras I garnered an 11 player kill in a single pass. This should NOT be possible.

The Junkers needed to be nerfed, the Stuka needed to be buffed, and to a lesser degree the "Ripsaw" 8 LMG Spitfire and "Hellfire" Explosive 20mm/Rocket combo 109 needed to be toned down.

Instead what has occurred has been a complete and total breakdown of flying in BFV. Bombers must loiter pointlessly over the battlefield waiting for the use of their namesake, only build with multiple bomb loads are viable now, any faster but lesser armed bomber is now pointless. A bomber can easily make it from one resupply point to the other before they are able to use their bombs, it's ridiculous. I was on board with a timer for heavy weapon rearms, as we have with quick-repair, something in that same area of time, but the amount of time ANY plane (not just bombers) must wait to use their Air-to-Ground weapons right now is ludicrous, to the point of completely breaking most types of planes/playstyles.

The Specialization tree for most planes has been unceremoniously severed in places, with no perceivable rhyme or reason. There is no "Air focused" or "Ground focused" split, it simply appears as a change for the sake of change. It did not touch any complained about weapons either, mostly fairly balanced or non-used combos like the Blenheim 1's Paradrop route (what I lovingly referred to as the Commando Blenheim) now lacking a nose blister (which I might point out was standard in nearly all Blenheims). Instead of 2 or more unique paths per aircraft, many of which had no "best" loadout but came down entirely to personal preference, we have one almost completely locked tree, and one almost customizable tree. This is NOT progress.

The change I personally take the most issue with is the Machinegun Ammo nerf. Planes now in most (if not all) cases have LESS ammo in the game than their famously limited reserves in-real-life. A fighter must now rearm after engaging a single target if they hope to survive a second one in many cases, and that's with GOOD aim, newer pilots who are still learning will have little to no room for error when it comes to taking out a target with a single load. A good pilot who could win a 2v1 dogfight BEFORE the update now has absolutely no chance or doing so without being near a resupply point. This has the effect of making dogfights in BFV increasingly a game of chance, wherein it matters so much more if your opponent has just shot down a bomber or been nailed by flak than it does their skill or tactics. It's less and less a matter of if you can fly well, rather than if you spawn at the right time.

AA-Tanks, while already potent to all Aircraft and unkillable to nearly all Fighter-Bomber loadouts are now even more fortified in their positions outside of the playable area. A pilot cannot call upon his squadmates or teammates to run an special and exciting mission to take out an enemy target when it is outside of the zone they can go to/see. With most Flak Tanks also deciding to camp out at resupply zones for planes, this is even more unfair to the now-constantly returning for ammo fighters. Far too often a player who loses one too many dogfights to a better pilot will simply hop in an AA tank, wait outside the zone at a resupply zone, and be invincible to their enemy. This is the Aerial equivalent of an angry tanker commanding a heavy artillery piece from outside the map and targeting tanks resupply at supply depots. It does not make sense.

It should be noted that almost all the nerfs made to planes affect not only their class but the entire ranges of planes in BFV. Bombers too have pitiful amounts of forward facing gun ammo (and the Blenheims are glitched so that they CANNOT resupply this small amount of ammo). Conversely, fighters with small bombs or rockets must now also wait the insane amount of time to use their already rather limited air-to-ground arsenal. Some will make the argument that the 2.5x zoom makes up for this in some way, but many (if not most) pilots did strafing runs in third-person already.

I was immensely excited for this update, but it has fallen completely flat. The Practice range is a joke, the planes have been almost entirely ruined, and there are many MANY bugs. I'm not mad about bugs, those happen, but the decisions made in regards to the planes by the team at DICE feel rushed and clumsy. It is, to quote our British announcer on Devastation "A craven betrayal of trust" for our flyers, in what to me at least felt like one of the best Battlefields ever for a pilot.

My ideal outcome would be an immediate reversal of the Machinegun nerf, and a different system to make Bombers rearm over-time. I would suggest instead of a timer for rearming, a system in which a bomber with many or heavy bombs must pass through the resupply zone multiple times in-order to rearm. This gives them the option to go into a bombing run with a lessened load, or spend some time in a vulnerable position over the supply zone to fully rearm. As it stands all a bomber must do is make one pass and then hide until they are cleared for bomb dropping.

Please DICE, please don't let THIS be the direction planes are taking. My friends whom never had any interest in flying in Battlefield are finally getting into it here, and this update has ruined it for them, and for me. This is, to pilots at least, a really pressing issue that NEEDS to be fixed quickly, not in the next major update.

A plea, from a pilot.




Comments

  • WittmannBaron
    37 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited December 6
    Tell me a thing they did right... they ruined both: Fighters and Tank experience.
    This game become a joke.

    Edited for language. - EA_Cian
    Post edited by EA_Cian on
  • LankRich
    14 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Beautifully said. Agree with everything
  • staRS-SirBob
    2331 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Agree 100%.
  • GigatonMama
    1 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    I was looking forward to this update, too. I've been subject to start of round bombings, I've sat in AA guns also round not shooting down a single bomber. Every complaint I've heard in game was about the bombers. Not a single complaint about the fighters.

    I don't really keep up with Dev talk or whatever, but I was expecting bombers to be more vulnerable to AA for and to delay the spawning of planes at the start of a match. That's all I felt needed to change.

    Instead they made fighters extremely frustrating to use. Ttk other planes is rediculous, 80% of the time the other pilots bail out safely while I'm over heating two sets of machine guns dead on target.

    Bombers are more difficult for fighters to shoot down, making it easier for bomber pilots to seat switch and shoot you down before their engines even start smoking.

    Having to wait 30 seconds for 4 nerfed rockets to re arm is awful and reduces a fighter's ability to provide close air support even more than it already was.

    Perhaps I just need to play for a few hours more to get used to the changes, but it feels so awful now that I'm not very much inclined to launch the game again until the next patch; assuming there are more changes then. Although I might not be so interested in the game anymore by the time that rolls out.

    At least I got about 40 hours out of the game?
  • staRS-SirBob
    2331 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    @GigatonMama wrote
    Having to wait 30 seconds for 4 nerfed rockets to re arm is awful and reduces a fighter's ability to provide close air support even more than it already was.
    Same problem with the Stuka. It was not a real thread to ground before and now it's more or less useless. 30 sec for rearming 4 small bombs, cmon.
  • Hawxxeye
    2619 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    It was a massive nerf on things that were fine like re arm times.
    At least now the pilot who keeps being shot down by the enemy fighters can channel his frustration via an aa tank :D
  • TheSacar
    745 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Very good post. Agree 100% but have a few points to add:
    .
    1. Fighters vs. tail guns: Fighters now have a very limited ammo and need to burst fire accurately in order not to overheat. Conversely tail guns still have unlimited ammo and a much slower overheat timer. So while the fighter has to use accurate bursts, the tailgunner can just spray in full auto. Considering that the tail gun was already powerful against fighters and more so with upgrades, this is too much.
    .
    2. Damage repair: Now you have to fly through the resupply multiple times to be able to repair your plane back to 100%. I have no accurate numbers but if memory serves it was about one pass for every 20% of hard damage. Considering that almost all damage you take causes some unrepairable hard damage, I found myself circling the resupply for almost a minute just to repair.
    .
    3. Blenheim gunner: This was there before but with the patch has become a nuisance. This guy can shoot in all directions and I found myself having to fly through the resupply to repair a lot of times because a distant bombers tail gunner was shooting at me across half the map. Shouldn't the gunner position be for defense rather than offense?
    .
    I also want to add, for the benefit of people who haven't considered the ammo reduction for front guns too closely or for those who are mainly infantry players, that the reduction is huge. In the case of the 8x.303 MGs from 1000 to 350, a 65% reduction. The Minengeschoss went from 500 to 150, a reduction of 70%. As an infantry reference that is like instead of spawning with one full magazine in your gun and two in reserve, you spawn with one magazine (Spitfire) or an 80% full magazine (Minengeschoss) and none in reserve. And you cannot top up at an ammo crate. Imagine if they did that to infantry ammunition.
  • gunsmen96
    17 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    The Stuka B2 is pretty weak now too. When using the Bordkanone it overheats in 3-4 consecutive shots, making it difficult to dispatch multiple targets, and rendering it pretty useless against armour now too. Personally I don't think the Bordkanone was overpowered to begin with; it took well planned strafes to pick up more than one kill pre-patch.
    It's a shame DICE decided to change it as it's easily my favourite loadout, and not one you often see people using.
  • Panzerkeks85
    52 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    It makes you wonder if DICE ever played their own game...
  • warslag
    899 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    Obviously the whole reason they make changes to planes is because they think planes turn customers off buying Battlefield.

    Game producers and gameplay developers are much bolder in their decisions in the last few years when trying to increase revenue and sales at the expense of gameplay.

    Players keep pointing out how illogical the changes are but they will be ignored because the gameplay for gameplay's sake is not the priority. Gameplay for making money informs all the devs decisions.
  • SithMetal71
    24 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    didn't you know in WW2 the enemy nerfed their planes and tanks?

    Why not make them realistic, how they really should react, manoeuvre and destroy in real life. At least it would be more realistic and frightening. The only thing that scares me in this game are the V1 Rockets, when they hit near you it throws you onto your ****, along with a full screen of hell. This is brilliant shame other effects like bombs don't do the same, you should fear the Stuka dive bombing you not laugh at it.
  • TOG_Whiskey
    25 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Decent pilots are still at the top of the leaderboards, but not by a huge margin pre-patch, their scores can be matched by good infantry. This is balance - an equal opportunity to score in the same range.
  • SkilletBurn
    369 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Decent pilots are still at the top of the leaderboards, but not by a huge margin pre-patch, their scores can be matched by good infantry. This is balance - an equal opportunity to score in the same range.

    This. Best nerf in the entire patch.
  • staRS-SirBob
    2331 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Decent pilots are still at the top of the leaderboards, but not by a huge margin pre-patch, their scores can be matched by good infantry. This is balance - an equal opportunity to score in the same range.
    Source - I didn't see any yesterday after patch in top 5 on PC.
  • TOG_Whiskey
    25 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Look harder.
  • TheSacar
    745 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Decent pilots are still at the top of the leaderboards, but not by a huge margin pre-patch, their scores can be matched by good infantry. This is balance - an equal opportunity to score in the same range.

    Just because skilled people can do good with something does not mean that it is balanced. That is oversimplifying things. I did get an 18:0 on Panzerstorm with the Spitfire post patch and a 16:0 on Fjell. Meanwhile my clan mate in a Blenheim racked up a 38:1, dying to a combination of one fighter, one bomber and one AA once. he was laughing like madness because beyond that one death, no one could kill him in a fighter. He just seat switched them to death.
    .
    And that is the problem. If you take two theoretical pilots with 100% equal skill, the fighter pilot should beat the bomber pilot. But that's not how it is now. There is much more skill required for the fighter pilot to consistently kill bomber pilots who seat switch, than there is for bomber pilots to kill fighters by seat switching. Fighters are (theoretically) designed to shoot down bombers. Now I opt for leaving the bombers alone to bomb the ground, because shooting them down means risking my life twice. I risk being seat switched to death with a gun with unlimited ammo and I risk being without sufficient ammo to take on a fighter which might attack me.
  • LinkZeppeloyd
    435 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    The reload times are meme tier. Last night, fighter or bomber, I just kept flying around in circles, waiting for the absurdly long reload. FFS dice why? Even on fighters, really?
  • WinterWarhurst
    462 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited December 6
    Yes, I really don't know quite what they were thinking with the SPAA, they're basically unkillable trolls from the air now, even before the patch it took the proper load out and perfect timing to kill them, as well as making sure they don't land too many shots on you! Now the only tactic is to try and bait them towards the frontlines so infantry can kill them, which they usually won't do as they camp in spawn or a nearby depot.
  • TOG_Whiskey
    25 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    The destruction of bombers has shifted, it is no longer the sole responsibility of the fighter, bombers can now be effectively taken down by AA.
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