Heh.... When will this community be happy?

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  • Loqtrall
    12020 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    warslag wrote: »
    You two have got well over 20,000 posts between you and it's not as though they're made up of quality feedback. You spend most of your time scoffing at other peoples' posts and starting arguments. That's not feedback, is it?

    Lol I have left plenty of feedback. I just don't spend the majority of my time on this forum discussing what I want changed about the game. I discuss all aspects of it, apart from maybe vehicles. Not just what I personally think is wrong with them.

    I've been a daily member of the forum community for nearly a decade. You really expect the bulk of my usage to be dedicated to feedback? We're on a forum dedicated to discussing the game, not to lambasting the devs for doing something I dislike.
    Stahlmach wrote: »
    @Loqtrall

    It seems you forget some point about the " polite " gamers of the past. Not only were we/them kids and very fascinated by something that was new. But more important: we mostly didnt paid for them!
    Lets be honest we illegally copied the hell out of these games. One of the countless your friend gave you/copied was garbage ? Didnt mattered you just " lost " one formated Disk.

    Today the majority isnt doing this any longer, it doesnt make any sense. Most games are account based and so cheap that its easier to buy for small price from a legit source instead going through some shady places to download 70Gb
    God knows what.
    And with higher Marketing prices, AAA titles need to sell a lot to get their revenue. So its natural that they appeal to as many people as possible. While smaller developers concentrate on a limited amount of people and with new
    phenomena like Kickstarter they into very directly contanct with the consumers. " Iron Harvest " is right at the moment a perfect example for that.
    So while these big Publishers want my hard earned money, they still fail to at least release their product in a state which you can call at least normal working. Even more when its a series were normal would employees learn from former mistakes!

    And promises not being broken right after the game is released! People give credit towards companies they trust because they either communicated everything and/or stood to their word.
    A good example for this would be CD Project. A Game like The Witcher 3 had they typical technical teething but that was directly and fast addressed and the following content was vast and wasnt looking like being deliberately cut from the main game. And therefore people trust them with the upcoming Cyberpunk 2077.
    And these people you mention who love to buy broken games just to run to the Internet and yell about: are these really common gamers/costumers ? Or same the typical Twitch/ Youtubers who just want Klicks ?

    You see in BF V a raw diamond which just needs to be shaped to get into perfection. I see fool's gold, shiny enough at the first look to get your mind spinning but the longer you look at it, the clearer the fraud gets.

    Maybe that's what your experience was like, but definitely not mine. I was a teen when the earlier BF games were in thier prime, and knew and played with several people who were 30 years old or older during the BF2 days, at least. I've never "copied" a game or anything like that, ever.

    I mean, really, I mention people comparing bi-annual releases to games with near decade-long development cycles, and you bring up CD Projekt Red and TW3 as an example. Just as a frame of reference, TW3 was in development for nearly 4 years, with production on it starting as early as 2008 - and I played that game for near 20 hours and ran into a corrupted save file that forced me to start from scratch. Within the first week of release.

    How then can we hold a game like BF5, which belongs to a franchise with a long history of bi-annual release cycles, to the standard of games with long development cycles like TW3 or RDR2? How can we expect BF5 to be virtually free of bugs when even those games aren't?

    I'm not saying to give the devs a pass or that there's nothing wrong with the game - but people these days are treating devs like they should be miracle workers, like they should achieve something in 18 months that other studios don't even achieve in 4 years.

    Lastly, if you consider BF5 fool's gold, I can't imagine what the hell you thought of bf4.
  • fortress66
    344 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Gforce81 wrote: »
    After playing myself with the new patch, as always, I feel like the forum is making a mountain out of a molehill

    Ok you like the new footstep audio?? I dont think so. And if you like it, i just dont understand you.
  • wc138
    1109 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    warslag wrote: »
    Loqtrall wrote: »
    munkt0r wrote: »
    This is a toxic forum filled almost exclusively with negativity. Theres very little positive discussion pertaining to the game. Theres really only 4 or 5 different topics repeated over and over again. Theres exceptions of course but that's mainly what this forum is all about.

    I don't wanna be the bearer of bad news.... but this is a feedback forum... Just saying.
    This is a toxic forum filled almost exclusively with negativity. Theres very little positive discussion pertaining to the game. Theres really only 4 or 5 different topics repeated over and over again. Theres exceptions of course but that's mainly what this forum is all about.

    I don't wanna be the bearer of bad news.... but this is a feedback forum... Just saying.

    Technically, this is a general discussion forum.

    The best part is there's a bugs and issues section of the forum, but people still choose to primarily leave thier feedback in gen. discussion.
    TEKNOCODE wrote: »
    Loqtrall wrote: »
    munkt0r wrote: »
    This is a toxic forum filled almost exclusively with negativity. Theres very little positive discussion pertaining to the game. Theres really only 4 or 5 different topics repeated over and over again. Theres exceptions of course but that's mainly what this forum is all about.

    I don't wanna be the bearer of bad news.... but this is a feedback forum... Just saying.
    This is a toxic forum filled almost exclusively with negativity. Theres very little positive discussion pertaining to the game. Theres really only 4 or 5 different topics repeated over and over again. Theres exceptions of course but that's mainly what this forum is all about.

    I don't wanna be the bearer of bad news.... but this is a feedback forum... Just saying.

    Technically, this is a general discussion forum.

    The best part is there's a bugs and issues section of the forum, but people still choose to primarily leave thier feedback in gen. discussion.

    “Feedback”

    You two have got well over 20,000 posts between you and it's not as though they're made up of quality feedback. You spend most of your time scoffing at other peoples' posts and starting arguments. That's not feedback, is it?

    Honestly, a lot of us spend time scoffing at other people's posts. I think it stems from the fact that after being here long enough, you realize DICE/EA aren't paying attention to most of what is being said here. Sure, the volunteer moderators forward on threads when they can (I have to put this here or a mod will inevitably show up and say this), but DICE/EA have been paying more attention to forums of public opinion where they can't control the narative; i.e. twitter and reddit.

    The content and quality of our posts make little difference. The sooner you surrender to that, the better off you'll be.
  • Stahlmach
    1156 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Loqtrall wrote: »
    warslag wrote: »
    You two have got well over 20,000 posts between you and it's not as though they're made up of quality feedback. You spend most of your time scoffing at other peoples' posts and starting arguments. That's not feedback, is it?

    Lol I have left plenty of feedback. I just don't spend the majority of my time on this forum discussing what I want changed about the game. I discuss all aspects of it, apart from maybe vehicles. Not just what I personally think is wrong with them.

    I've been a daily member of the forum community for nearly a decade. You really expect the bulk of my usage to be dedicated to feedback? We're on a forum dedicated to discussing the game, not to lambasting the devs for doing something I dislike.
    Stahlmach wrote: »
    @Loqtrall

    It seems you forget some point about the " polite " gamers of the past. Not only were we/them kids and very fascinated by something that was new. But more important: we mostly didnt paid for them!
    Lets be honest we illegally copied the hell out of these games. One of the countless your friend gave you/copied was garbage ? Didnt mattered you just " lost " one formated Disk.

    Today the majority isnt doing this any longer, it doesnt make any sense. Most games are account based and so cheap that its easier to buy for small price from a legit source instead going through some shady places to download 70Gb
    God knows what.
    And with higher Marketing prices, AAA titles need to sell a lot to get their revenue. So its natural that they appeal to as many people as possible. While smaller developers concentrate on a limited amount of people and with new
    phenomena like Kickstarter they into very directly contanct with the consumers. " Iron Harvest " is right at the moment a perfect example for that.
    So while these big Publishers want my hard earned money, they still fail to at least release their product in a state which you can call at least normal working. Even more when its a series were normal would employees learn from former mistakes!

    And promises not being broken right after the game is released! People give credit towards companies they trust because they either communicated everything and/or stood to their word.
    A good example for this would be CD Project. A Game like The Witcher 3 had they typical technical teething but that was directly and fast addressed and the following content was vast and wasnt looking like being deliberately cut from the main game. And therefore people trust them with the upcoming Cyberpunk 2077.
    And these people you mention who love to buy broken games just to run to the Internet and yell about: are these really common gamers/costumers ? Or same the typical Twitch/ Youtubers who just want Klicks ?

    You see in BF V a raw diamond which just needs to be shaped to get into perfection. I see fool's gold, shiny enough at the first look to get your mind spinning but the longer you look at it, the clearer the fraud gets.

    Maybe that's what your experience was like, but definitely not mine. I was a teen when the earlier BF games were in thier prime, and knew and played with several people who were 30 years old or older during the BF2 days, at least. I've never "copied" a game or anything like that, ever.

    I mean, really, I mention people comparing bi-annual releases to games with near decade-long development cycles, and you bring up CD Projekt Red and TW3 as an example. Just as a frame of reference, TW3 was in development for nearly 4 years, with production on it starting as early as 2008 - and I played that game for near 20 hours and ran into a corrupted save file that forced me to start from scratch. Within the first week of release.

    How then can we hold a game like BF5, which belongs to a franchise with a long history of bi-annual release cycles, to the standard of games with long development cycles like TW3 or RDR2? How can we expect BF5 to be virtually free of bugs when even those games aren't?

    I'm not saying to give the devs a pass or that there's nothing wrong with the game - but people these days are treating devs like they should be miracle workers, like they should achieve something in 18 months that other studios don't even achieve in 4 years.

    Lastly, if you consider BF5 fool's gold, I can't imagine what the hell you thought of bf4.

    Exactly because of this release circle! FFS they arent starting every time from scratch when releasing a new BF title! But here we go again like the movie Groundhog Day. With the difference that Bill Murray at least starts to learn.
  • trip1ex
    4695 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    It is Groundhog day every BF release. But this time, for me, they laid an egg. And the usual patchwork isn't going to change that.
  • Loqtrall
    12020 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Well, i think what's happening, in sincerely listening to what you've been saying in a nutshell, is that you're not happy folks are giving a negative reaction about the game. And so we're shaking our fists at the whole community (b/c this is also now going on now at reddit), and not seeing the big picture as to what's really going on.

    And what's going in, is what i've been saying is going on, and DICE seems to know it, as they alluded too...here...

    https://www.gamespot.com/articles/battlefield-dev-says-its-been-a-challenge-for-year/1100-6463968/

    That was a result of the ttk fiasco. And if you look at most of the complaints, it's just not about "bugs".

    As you said earlier, and were correct, there's bugs on every launch, and that's understandable. But the mass complaints are about campers, this class wants a buff, the other a nerf, they hate killcam, the sniper problem, it goes on. On what it ALL has to do with, and what that article was a response too, was TTK !!!!!!!!

    It's just an infuriating game to play, and it's killing the counts. People are trying it, and not buying it. People are buying it, and not playing it. It divided this community in a way i've never seen, if only with BF1 ttk 2.0, and it's dividing it now.

    If they wanted Hardcore play, they should've created...wait for it...HARDCORE mode lol.

    But the You Tubers don't want to stream what they like to play, being many will not watch them playing a mode most nobody likes. And so they try and mold that game play, to Vanilla, as well as their followers, and it's turning folks off. Not just for newcomers, but Vets alike. And DICE just has to follow their lead, being they're their "advertisers" so to speak.

    So, DICE knows the elephant the room, and they have to fix it. They said in the article it's going to be awhile, but they better step on it.

    That's not what's happening at all. I dislike people who dislike what BF5 is as a whole attempting to mold the game into what they want. Just like you seem to be doing with ttk.

    You attribute all these issues to ttk, ignoring that the ttk has been faster in other BF titles by default, and is statistically just as fast as bf4, a BF game that was widely played and is revered now as one of the best in the franchise. Hardcore mode in that game had ttk as fast as 100ms. Every class in that game had access to weapons that kill just as fast as the best statistical weapons in BF5, thanks to all-kit options.

    It seems to be a mystery to me how ttk can cause all those issues in BF5 but not bf4, a BF game with an objectively worse launch state.

    This is a prime example of what I said earlier - people approaching the ducussion about BF5s issues with rose-tinted glasses w/ full blinders on in regards to past games.

    BF5 is not hardcore at all. Believe it or not, all these things you guys call "Hardcore" features like quicker ttk, lack of 3d spotting, lack of suppression, etc were all normal, base game features in the majority of BF titles that exist. Only since BF3 have we had active spammable 3d spotting, suppression that negatively effects aiming, scope glint, gunplay balanced by rbd, etc. Only since BC2 has there been a hardcore mode. There have been more games without those features than there have been with them.

    If anything I would argue BF3 through BF1 have been "softcore", overly casualizing the BF experience and pulling away from what it used to be. Which is why I've always said BF5 is a lot closer to a classic BF experience, for the first time on consoles. Which is probably why so many people are blowing up and freaking out, because a ton of console players are completely ignorant to the history of this franchise prior to BC2-BF3. That's what I think is happening, people can't handle what BF actually used to be like.

    If anything, that GameSpot article reinforces my stance on this whole "please everyone and what they want" approach to development. Two separate devs for two huge games said the task is near impossible. It just doesn't work, the game shouldn't be designed to appeal to every single shooter fan, ever. It then detracts from the roots of the franchise, what made it popular in the first place. Battlefield just needs to be Battlefield, not the hottest game on the market.
  • parkingbrake
    3202 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    A brain fart is trying to change something like the TTK a few in weeks in from launch.

    I have no issues if devs want to innovate, in fact I welcome it. I definitely don't want a glorified re-hash of the previous title every 2-3 years.
    But it also makes no sense to throw out things that worked well and replace them with things that don't work. Can anyone think of a good reason we have to leave the game to activate assignments, often resulting in sitting in queue when we try to rejoin our friends? For that matter why do we have to activate assignments at all? Change and improvement are not interchangeable terms, but in BFV DICE seems to have changed some things for the worse, as if just changing them was all they needed to do, they didn't need to make them better. And then there is the network performance, which has been shown to be worse than in BF1 and I suspect in late BF4 as well--how on earth did they manage to mess up that?

    Fair point. They've made a lot of head scratching decisions in BFV, the UI is probably the worst in the whole series like you point out.

    Still, the core of the game is solid. I'm liking the direction and chances they took with this one, overall i feel its a major improvement over the previous title.

    I'm having fun, my long-time BF fan friends are having fun too. Having lived through the debacle that was the release of BF4 I'm not about to bail on BFV (which is in way better shape than BF4 was at this point). So I'll stick around and see where they go, I'd just like them to ease up on the silly stuff like the clunky UI and footsteps that now sound like rapid cannon shots.
  • Gforce81
    3666 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    fortress66 wrote: »
    Gforce81 wrote: »
    After playing myself with the new patch, as always, I feel like the forum is making a mountain out of a molehill

    Ok you like the new footstep audio?? I dont think so. And if you like it, i just dont understand you.

    Frankly yes. Before, footstep audio was super quiet.

    I'll take overly loud rather than super quiet any day. Drown me in over-information; don't starve me with lack-of-information. I'd rather hear the footsteps of someone +20 yards away too early than to not hear them until they are 4 feet behind me with their dagger out.
  • NoQuart3r
    105 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Yes there have been some questionable decisions and marketing fiascos but overall Dice are making progress and the core of the game for me is good.

    I just think that there are far too many millenial snowflakes around who seem to want to express their "rage" by jumping on every internet band wagon going. It has to be due to poor self esteem issues.
  • Trokey66
    8261 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    I posted this in another thread but seems relevant here......

    Believe it or not, the following is/was Lordmang's signature:

    "Let's show the BF devs we're worth interacting with. Otherwise the fault lies with us...."

    Since the release of the initial BFV trailer, the 'community' has consistently failed in this so there is more than a grain of truth to it in my opinion.
  • Stahlmach
    1156 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited January 21
    Trokey66 wrote: »
    I posted this in another thread but seems relevant here......

    Believe it or not, the following is/was Lordmang's signature:

    "Let's show the BF devs we're worth interacting with. Otherwise the fault lies with us...."

    Since the release of the initial BFV trailer, the 'community' has consistently failed in this so there is more than a grain of truth to it in my opinion.

    What twisted version of reality is this ? So the " Gods " deny us their favor because there are too many " heretics " in our ranks ?
    I say the Devs should show me first that the money i spend for the product was worth it. Together with the other promises these " devine Entities " made.
  • Trokey66
    8261 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Stahlmach wrote: »
    Trokey66 wrote: »
    I posted this in another thread but seems relevant here......

    Believe it or not, the following is/was Lordmang's signature:

    "Let's show the BF devs we're worth interacting with. Otherwise the fault lies with us...."

    Since the release of the initial BFV trailer, the 'community' has consistently failed in this so there is more than a grain of truth to it in my opinion.

    What twisted version of reality is this ? So the " Gods " deny us their favor because there are too many " heretics " in our ranks ?
    I say the Devs should me first that the money i spend for the product was worth it. Together with the other promises these " devine Entities " made.

    Well that just proves the point, well done.....
  • trip1ex
    4695 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Trokey66 wrote: »
    I posted this in another thread but seems relevant here......

    Believe it or not, the following is/was Lordmang's signature:

    "Let's show the BF devs we're worth interacting with. Otherwise the fault lies with us...."

    Since the release of the initial BFV trailer, the 'community' has consistently failed in this so there is more than a grain of truth to it in my opinion.

    As if it could ever be a success lol.

    Do the math. It can’t work.

    All it is in the end is PR.
  • smokintom214
    1794 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    trip1ex wrote: »
    Trokey66 wrote: »
    I posted this in another thread but seems relevant here......

    Believe it or not, the following is/was Lordmang's signature:

    "Let's show the BF devs we're worth interacting with. Otherwise the fault lies with us...."

    Since the release of the initial BFV trailer, the 'community' has consistently failed in this so there is more than a grain of truth to it in my opinion.

    As if it could ever be a success lol.

    Do the math. It can’t work.

    All it is in the end is PR.

    Battlefield 4 survived a whole year with far more major game breaking bugs, BFV will survive.
  • Stahlmach
    1156 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited January 21
    Trokey66 wrote: »
    Stahlmach wrote: »
    Trokey66 wrote: »
    I posted this in another thread but seems relevant here......

    Believe it or not, the following is/was Lordmang's signature:

    "Let's show the BF devs we're worth interacting with. Otherwise the fault lies with us...."

    Since the release of the initial BFV trailer, the 'community' has consistently failed in this so there is more than a grain of truth to it in my opinion.

    What twisted version of reality is this ? So the " Gods " deny us their favor because there are too many " heretics " in our ranks ?
    I say the Devs should me first that the money i spend for the product was worth it. Together with the other promises these " devine Entities " made.

    Well that just proves the point, well done.....

    Too bad your Gods dont speak to you in this temple because the believers here ask too many unpleasant questions.
    So they give their blessings to the Youtube priests, the Reddit and Twitter monks....
  • parkingbrake
    3202 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Trokey66 wrote: »
    I posted this in another thread but seems relevant here......

    Believe it or not, the following is/was Lordmang's signature:

    "Let's show the BF devs we're worth interacting with. Otherwise the fault lies with us...."

    Since the release of the initial BFV trailer, the 'community' has consistently failed in this so there is more than a grain of truth to it in my opinion.

    They accepted our money, that's all we need to provide for them to interact with us. In a relationship between a business and customers, it's the business that needs to try hard, not the other way around.

    However I grant you that the way some customers behave here and elsewhere tends to discourage rational discussion. Look at all the melodramatic clowns here who invent or falsify complaints about BFV and then rant away like this game is the worst crime of the century. But even that doesn't justify the devs being mostly AWOL here, the devs just have to avoid engaging with the torch and pitchfork crowd, but they should still be here.
  • Trokey66
    8261 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Trokey66 wrote: »
    I posted this in another thread but seems relevant here......

    Believe it or not, the following is/was Lordmang's signature:

    "Let's show the BF devs we're worth interacting with. Otherwise the fault lies with us...."

    Since the release of the initial BFV trailer, the 'community' has consistently failed in this so there is more than a grain of truth to it in my opinion.

    They accepted our money, that's all we need to provide for them to interact with us. In a relationship between a business and customers, it's the business that needs to try hard, not the other way around.

    However I grant you that the way some customers behave here and elsewhere tends to discourage rational discussion. Look at all the melodramatic clowns here who invent or falsify complaints about BFV and then rant away like this game is the worst crime of the century. But even that doesn't justify the devs being mostly AWOL here, the devs just have to avoid engaging with the torch and pitchfork crowd, but they should still be here.

    Agree to a large extent with the first bit.

    The second bit is the point I am making.

    Because of the second bit, I suspect the last bit occurs although I am sure that they do read the threads looking for the nuggets in a mountain of dross.

    Quite frankly, given the toxicity towards them, I don't blame them for not interacting directly through here.

    This makes Lordmang's quote relevant.

    It does not say "don't complain", just don't be an {insert expletive of choice} about it.

    Be calm, reasoned and constructive and the devs are more likely to listen and engage.
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