Weekly Debrief

Support (MMG) is now NERFED back to the stone age in BF5

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Comments

  • VincentNZ
    3254 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Shrediron wrote: »
    M_Rat13 wrote: »
    Thacyoon wrote: »
    As a MMG user I am just a low life noob camper that should be banned for laying prone bipodded with my useless MMG.
    I am just a target for any sniper/assult/medic/airplane, especially if I empty my 1200 ROF MG-42 in their face. They can all just headshot me by aiming at the source of all the tracer rounds.

    Yes, I am pissed, VERY pissed. This is not a "Battlefield" game. And EA, 2 weeks after realease you cut the price by 50% - that is just ANOTHER middlefinger to me!

    Puhh, I better stop now....this is not my batteldield any more. You guys take care, and have fun with this game if you can. And DICE/EA I will NEVER ever buy anything more from you - ever!

    Doesn't the 1200 rpm MG42 only get access to the 50 round mag? Making it worthless...

    I think you need to learn to play MMGs properly before you complain....

    No, the 1200 RPM is pretty much necessary now to get a kill on your opponent before they kill you. Its good for maybe three kills before the 4th squad member takes you out. Previously, when the gun was more accurate the extended magazine was infinitely better, but now that accuracy is gone the speed helps make up for it to a degree.

    Regardless, the nerf was completely unnecessary due to the fact that one has to be prone to use them. Frankly weapons that require being prone SHOULD be lasers. Its glass cannon, as easy as they are to kill with, they are equally as easy to get a kill on.

    I suck at sniper, but decided to play it tonight to level it up some...the only kills I could get, were prone support players.

    Nonsense. Even without the RPM increase, it still puts you into the highest ROF the game has to offer. And even with the "nerf" that applies to ALL weapons the bipod still offers the biggest reduction in spread and recoil, meaning you have a gun that is very accurate, controllable, has the highest ROF and a higher damage than ARs, resulting in the highest DPS and lowest TTK of all weapons. You are not a glass cannon either, by definition, you receive the same damage as everyone. Claiming that any medic or assault can easily kill you when being prone is laughable, you have all the aces as MMG player if you are prone before the engagement. If you lose then, it is solely your fault.
    And if you do not like the MMGs, because the playstyle is limiting, which is understandable, you can still use the LMGs, which play like ARs, have low recoil and average to decent ROF, while also getting the bipod benefits if you choose to. The KE7 in particular offers a performance similar to the STG44, where you basically trade 6 bullets for a bipod and a slightly lower TTK.
  • Austacker
    437 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited January 19
    Sixclicks wrote: »

    You clearly have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

    Again? Dude, you know you have like 5 minutes experience with this class and you're telling other players they have no idea on this subject?

    Give it a rest!
    Post edited by Austacker on
  • Nesodos
    80 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    alienstout wrote: »
    How are you even allowed to play pretend violence in the EU at this point? I thought there was a Battlefield Pillow Fight version for you humans.
    Weird flex but ok. Some guns do in fact play like they are either shooting feathers or pillows after patch.

    Its funny bc the games in EU have in general less limitations that games published in the USA.
  • mf_shro0m
    1798 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Nesodos wrote: »
    Aww... What's wrong? You can't camp anymore with your bipod out behind cover/ proned out and laser anyone that happens to run around the corner? I'm welling up with tears...

    Funny thing is that there are more camping assaults/medics now than ever before and nobody cares bc they love their crutch guns

    Let’s be honest, medics aren’t OP even now

    I think the accuracy of MMGs is too poor now. The recoil nerf was aimed primarily at dealing with prone and bipoded KE7s and Lewis guns which were like fully automatic, 550 and 670 RPM M1A1s.
    I think the broader MG nerf should stay but MMGs should have their accuracys buffed a little
  • cylon0
    203 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited January 19
    I can still kick butt as support.

    One thing that bothers me, though, is when you drop prone to set up the bipod and for whatever reason, your soldier begins the slow-mo "support slide" by which you stay in hip fire mode (which if using an MMG = death) until the slide ends 5-10 seconds later. It doesn't happen every time you go prone with the bipod, but it does at least once a round.

    It's not fun when you run into a heavy fire fight with your MMG and drop prone to lay into unsuspecting enemies only to begin the slide, have the enemies turn, notice you and have their way with you. Arrgggggghh!

    This is a bug they still need to work out.
  • BFB-LeCharybdis
    850 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    It's not that the MMG's aren't phenomenal at holding a position and that it's users don't provide a valuable contribution to the team.
    It's more that the prone meta is so prevalent in Battlefield that their position is also being filled by virtually every class, so it makes them sort of redundant really.

    Dice did create an incredible game, I'm a huge fan of BFV and it's easy to see how they intended the MMG to fit into that role. But what they can't predict is how the majority of the player base will take to and play BFV.
    This is a very defensive game anyway, I'm not saying that's a bad thing, what is bad is that the meta has largely become camping. Not on objectives or in areas that see busy traffic, I mean everywhere.
    The most common example for me is playing Aerodrome Conquest the other night, we won I think it was 483-0 I had the most kills in the entire game, with 12. Seriously 12!! Because no one was contesting the objectives. Just lay down and snipe.
    How does a defensive weapon like the MMG fit into a game that plays like this? Not very well really.

    The changes Dice made, bug or not, are necessary, because of the nature of the open maps any gun that can laser people down at long range will be used in that manner and any attempt to PTO abandoned. I know there will be plenty of dedicated MMG users here who used the MMG's to their maximum effectiveness in helping their team, but that's just not how the vast majority of the player base uses them.
    I get that this must annoy people but Dice have to adapt to keep BFV interesting and competitive in a predominantly casual player base.

    I agree that Assault are vastly overpowered at the moment so they shouldn't be used as a comparison to any class, they need some changes that encourage greater skill with weapons and bring them into somewhat closer ranges.

    Compare the varied weapons of Support with both Recon and Medic, for me in terms of sheer versatility, power and unlimited ammo, Support more than measure up to them.
  • Jezzzeh
    753 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    cylon0 wrote: »
    I can still kick butt as support.

    One thing that bothers me, though, is when you drop prone to set up the bipod and for whatever reason, your soldier begins the slow-mo "support slide" by which you stay in hip fire mode (which if using an MMG = death) until the slide ends 5-10 seconds later. It doesn't happen every time you go prone with the bipod, but it does at least once a round.

    It's not fun when you run into a heavy fire fight with your MMG and drop prone to lay into unsuspecting enemies only to begin the slide, have the enemies turn, notice you and have their way with you. Arrgggggghh!

    This is a bug they still need to work out.

    Agreed it's the best nerf to the class at moment for sure. Nothing worse than going prone at the sight of a recon glint on you then you spend 5 seconds gimping about sliding and slipping in hip fire mode only to get shot.
  • SendTheInfantry
    782 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    I wonder when DICE will nerf the assault weapons. Those things are like hot cheese. Effortless, skilless.

    WHY DID DICE MAKE THE GUNPLAY SO INCREDIBLY EASY?
  • Sixclicks
    5075 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited January 19
    Austacker wrote: »
    Sixclicks wrote: »

    You clearly have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

    Again? Dude, you know you have like 5 minutes experience with this class and you're telling other players they have no idea on this subject?

    Give it a rest!

    10.5 hours isn't 5 minutes, and I still do way better with the class than you do. It's not my most played class, but I've had absolutely no issues doing amazingly with the class so far. What you're claiming in your comments is just a bunch of nonsense.
  • kreepypriest
    393 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    As a support main I still do well..bad support players will always be bad even if dice brought back suppression or heavier bullet stagger for the support kits..ps i personally enjoy smashing zergs who try and take the flag I’m camping on.
  • kjgregoire
    116 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Honestly I do pretty well with the MG34. I feel like I’m a sniper that uses iron sights. The range on the MG34 is amazing. I think out of all the classes I will get 2nd most kills using the MG34. And don’t get me started on the amazing double barrel shotty. I have practice going back years using MG34 in games like Red Orchestra.

    My suggestion to you would be to revise tactics. Set up in a spot that people tend to funnel into (the alleyway between B and A on Rotterdam is perfect, set up on the train bridge and look down the alley) Your job is to deny the enemy movement, pick a spot that is far away from the battle and basically snipe the enemy with short bursts.
  • SirTerrible
    1710 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    kjgregoire wrote: »
    Honestly I do pretty well with the MG34. I feel like I’m a sniper that uses iron sights. The range on the MG34 is amazing. I think out of all the classes I will get 2nd most kills using the MG34. And don’t get me started on the amazing double barrel shotty. I have practice going back years using MG34 in games like Red Orchestra.

    My suggestion to you would be to revise tactics. Set up in a spot that people tend to funnel into (the alleyway between B and A on Rotterdam is perfect, set up on the train bridge and look down the alley) Your job is to deny the enemy movement, pick a spot that is far away from the battle and basically snipe the enemy with short bursts.

    The bridge overlooking that lane on Rotterdam is a perfect example of a "camping" spot that isn't really camping since it closes off the quickest route to A. That's what MMGs are for.
  • Astr0damus
    2904 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited January 19
    I'm going to try a bunch of new things to switch it up for a change of pace:
    • I'm going to try out the new Medic weapon I earned yesterday during Tides of War challenges.
    • While Medic, I want to find out if it is possible to melee with the hammer (most likely is, but I won't know until I try).
    • I'm going to try to rank up an Assault rifle and find one that works for me.. I know I will take a thumping for a little bit until I unlock some specs/attachments, but it will be worth it in the long run.
    • I want to try out the new Mark VI hand-cannon that I unlocked yesterday.
    • I may even try a couple new modes I haven't tried before.

    Today is a day of discovery!

    Edit: if it seems like this is off-topic or coming out of left field, it's because the thread is that supposedly Support has been nerfed to the stone-age. I want to try some new things to see if that's the case--most of the hours I've played have been Support/Conquest.
    So if OP or anyone else feels like Support has been ruined, try something new (except recon.. no one likes a recon).
  • Moorlander
    93 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Recon widely recognised to be weak; medic the same; and now support. Time to consider options and I don't mean Assault.
  • Cerben1
    266 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    its not that i like the support to be op or any thing but i feel like the MMGs needs to have some power when they are on ther bipod and pointing at target. acording to dice this weapon system sholde be great for defending a sector and shold be abel to wipe out gropes of enemies in game we hacve an hard time killing an assult that is comming at you whit an semi auto or ther stg 44. due to the fackt that they are more accurat on the run then you are on bipod stationary thers the big problem. recon kills MMG suport all day from 50m and out easy i know did my asignment on gold on for 2 snipers and 80% of them was mmgs or other snipers. medics hipfire is more accurat now then an mmg on bipod. and to them that says we have LMGs or shootguns i know we have them but i prefer the mmg and whants to use them for defence and assult. i have 88.5 Hours as suport. 20h whit mg42 and 12.3 h whit mg34 and 12h whit VGO si i think i know how they work now some and after this patch they are realy bad. as lmg goes i have some time as well whit fg42 12h and Levis 11h so know some about those guns as well. well i like to kill stuff in game and the easy way now is to ither go Assult or recon cose those are the easy ones to kill whit as Assult has no counter exept other Assult recon other recon or Assult that can aim and get 3 bullets of on target when i dont get one hs on them whit krag or k98 its not that hard =D
  • Astr0damus
    2904 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Update: So I played Assault for several hours, maybe 10 or 12 matches and never once went negative K/D.
    I was using one of the first rifle they give you: Ag m/42 and it was a lot of fun.. 3 or 4 quick shots as fast as you can pull the trigger, almost zero recoil, 3x scope, I can sorta see why people complain Assault is OP.. now that I have AT Mines with assault, I may not go back to Support for a good while. I'm having too much fun going positive. It does feel weird not having anything to pass out to my brothers and sisters in arms. I really can't wait to unlock the Selbstlader 1916 (more damage and 2.5x more rounds in a magazine.. yeah that will be nice).
    =================
    I still haven't fired the new medic weapon.. maybe later tonight or tomorrow.
    =================
    Lastly, I said "Oh how weak, some turkey is sniping out of his spawn..." and a guy on my squad was like "Hey.. I'm doing that too." and I was like "Oh sorry bud" and he said "But I have to, because I need to get 20 headshots in a game while prone or 10 headshots in a life while prone--as recon" (and I was thinking --uh... no you don't, you just think you do because you are a lemming and need some gold thing that no one cares about). He was super frustrated because he had 16 when the match ended. I kinda felt sorry for him grinding so hard for something so cosmetic and worthless. It's things like this that cause people to "boost" on the edge of the map with a friend.
  • Austacker
    437 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited January 20
    Sixclicks wrote: »
    10.5 hours isn't 5 minutes, and I still do way better with the class than you do. It's not my most played class, but I've had absolutely no issues doing amazingly with the class so far. What you're claiming in your comments is just a bunch of nonsense.


    10.5hours. That all?

    Dude, that's nothing. You're out of your depth here, your only claim to ability is your KDR. I'm on a console with a controller, you're on PC.

    We've been over this already but whoosh, over your head yet again.

    10.5 hours 'experience' with a class is nothing. You have no say here that makes sense if your only claim to performance is KDR - you literally have NO IDEA what the role of support is and I'm calling you out for shouting down others claiming they have no idea when you literally have sweet FA experience yourself.

    You're caustic to others with no experience, lording over the most irrelevant stat in the game for Support as your qualification.

    Go away, your input here is utterly irrelevant.

    This really goes for any of these other toxic kids who don't play the spec heavily who want to say 'naaaah, Support is fine, you just all suck!'

    You're not helping the situation, but you're trying to make a claim on something you have bugger all experience with and just look like a tool.

    If you don't have any real experience with Support, especially with the MMGs, then please stop wasting everyone's time here and go talk in another thread.

    This is a pretty frustrating issue for us long term Support guys, we're trying to get decent visibility on the issue and give feedback here to DICE on what's irking us.

    If you cannot bring a reasonable point to the table for discussion based on experience, you really have no place in this thread and your views cannot be taken seriously - but you WILL tick off those of us who struggle with this every day and want to express that frustration here.


    The feedback loop to the DICE development team is as valuable to them as it is to us, if you're just getting in the way of that process, you're just wasting everyone's time.
  • Sixclicks
    5075 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited January 20
    Austacker wrote: »
    Sixclicks wrote: »
    10.5 hours isn't 5 minutes, and I still do way better with the class than you do. It's not my most played class, but I've had absolutely no issues doing amazingly with the class so far. What you're claiming in your comments is just a bunch of nonsense.


    10.5hours. That all?

    Dude, that's nothing. You're out of your depth here, your only claim to ability is your KDR. I'm on a console with a controller, you're on PC.

    We've been over this already but whoosh, over your head yet again.

    10.5 hours 'experience' with a class is nothing. You have no say here that makes sense if your only claim to performance is KDR - you literally have NO IDEA what the role of support is and I'm calling you out for shouting down others claiming they have no idea when you literally have sweet FA experience yourself.

    You're caustic to others with no experience, lording over the most irrelevant stat in the game for Support as your qualification.

    Go away, your input here is utterly irrelevant.

    This really goes for any of these other toxic kids who don't play the spec heavily who want to say 'naaaah, Support is fine, you just all suck!'

    You're not helping the situation, but you're trying to make a claim on something you have bugger all experience with and just look like a tool.

    If you don't have any real experience with Support, especially with the MMGs, then please stop wasting everyone's time here and go talk in another thread.

    This is a pretty frustrating issue for us long term Support guys, we're trying to get decent visibility on the issue and give feedback here to DICE on what's irking us.

    If you cannot bring a reasonable point to the table for discussion based on experience, you really have no place in this thread and your views cannot be taken seriously - but you WILL tick off those of us who struggle with this every day and want to express that frustration here.


    The feedback loop to the DICE development team is as valuable to them as it is to us, if you're just getting in the way of that process, you're just wasting everyone's time.

    Once again, you show you've got no idea what you're talking about.

    Since when was I ever talking about only KDR?

    My support stats are higher than yours in not only KDR, but also SPM and KPM as well. All that experience must not be doing much for you if you're having issues with one of the strongest classes.

    My opinion would be no different if I had 500 hrs of support time. The class is fine. I mean, you claim you can't even get a kill with the AP mines... that's just ridiculous.

    The purpose of support is to kill, resupply, hold points, and spot via suppression. And that's exactly what I do with no issue.

    Why do you think MMGs don't have scopes? Maybe because they're intended for close to medium ranges. Which justifies the recoil bug fix. If you're trying to out-snipe snipers, you're playing it wrong.

    Disagreeing with you is not toxic. That's just a cop-out because your argument lacks any substance. All you've gone on with is your time with the class. Which has nothing to do with how strong or weak the class is. Stats like KDR, KPM, and SPM very clearly can convey how strong or weak a class is. If players are doing as well or better with the support class than assault, which is inarguably the strongest class, then there's no issue besides your lack of ability.
  • Austacker
    437 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited January 20
    Sixclicks wrote: »

    Once again, you show you've got no idea what you're talking about.

    My support stats are higher than yours in not only KDR, but also SPM and KPM as well.

    I give up. Seriously, I cannot argue with this level of stupid.

    YOU ARE ON PC - I'M ON CONSOLE!

    OF COURSE YOUR STATS HERE WILL BE BETTER MOUSE AND KEYBOARD BOY!


    You think the worth and measure of a Support role is on how many kills per life, how many kills per minute and score per minute are the measure of effective use of the support role.

    I seriously have no words here.

    You have shown here - beyond a measure of a doubt and without argument - you do NOT know the measure and worth of a combat effective Support player, ESPECIALLY the heavy LMG/MMG support player.

    But it explains PERFECTLY why you straight up don't get it.

    The Support MMG role does the following -
    • Locks down the objectives taken
    • Builds the fortifications
    • Anchors the team providing spawn points
    • Resupplies the team with Ammunition
    • Provides cover fire / suppression support

    KPM - KDR and SPM will not reflect that.

    But YOU don't get that.

    If you quoted resupplies, fortifications built, objectives defended, Squad spawns, kill assists of ANY OTHER DAMN STAT THE ACTUALLY RELATES TO THE SUPPORT ROLE you might be taken seriously.


    But nah... you went all COD with KDR/SPM/KPM instead.

    THAT is the clear example showing the Difference between a part time 'I played 10 hours' Support know it all and us long term guys who actually get it.

    YOU DON'T GET IT!!!
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