Hot take: This new-era, Frostbite 3 Battlefield franchise needs a complete overhaul

0SiGHT0
455 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
Since the advent of the Frostbite engine in the Bad Company series, there has been a progressive effort by DICE to build upon their efforts by supplementing their subsequent games with advancements to their engine. DICE's additions to their recent Battlefield games have been nothing short of a disaster. Long gone is the unbelievable replay value that their games brought to the table. The thoughtful, intricate design that made playing on BF maps a joy is nonexistent today. The character development, physics and interactions with the environment are regularly bugged and inconsistent. The map design has been reduced to garbage, the flag layouts on Conquest are a joke, and the class balance as well as the weapon balance is awful. The game is plagued with outright broken animations and in-game interactions and reeks of something that was rushed or not tested enough. Not to mention the UI has problem after problem that one could discover after playing the game for mere minutes (as is the same for many of these other issues).

With the exception of the high gloss graphics (that ultimately deteriorate the gameplay due to the lack of visibility), Battlefield has taken a step back in just about every aspect in the last 5 years. No, this is not a dramatization of the current situation at hand. It is the honest truth from someone who knows these games inside and out. You can check my stats if you like to see how I perform in these games (psn: oSiGHTo). Myself and many others that I played with on a near daily basis are disgusted with how this franchise has turned out. Many of them gave up on the several prior titles, not wanting to deal with all of the problems and subpar gameplay.

You can look to only a few places for this categorical step back in Battlefield. I believe today, the mass exodus of DICE employees from the studio that is notorious for great games is the primary reason for this inconsistent and seemingly discontinued pensive development. I have been wholeheartedly confused since Battlefield 4 when I see game after game, a different direction is taken in terms of various design elements, such as the User Interface, unlock system, game modes or basic customization that omits certain key features.

My conclusion to this obvious predicament is a difficult one. Ideally, as an EA executive overseeing my stock price literally cut in half in only 6 months time, I would want to hire back all of the key personnel that moved on from the studio. Upon assessing the concerns, one would think a literal return to DICE's old ways would create an extremely receptive output. Of course in the world of business, such a thing is unlikely. Therefore, I would simply start over on this franchise and look to return to what was great in the previous, well-received games. Yes, this includes a more barebones Frostbite engine, and a close examination into the older BF titles pre-BF4 that were taken very seriously. Stop trying to build on what is afflicted with an endless supply of complaints. Your template is there, but it is being ignored or forgotten.

Comments

  • xBCxSEALxTEAMx6
    1375 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    It is true, that the current gen of BF has been a disaster. From BF4, until now, it's been problems after another, and just never brought us back to the hey days of the Bad Company series. I truely believe, 64 players was a mistake on a console platform more in tuned with 24 players.

    Getting away from the destruction and lighthearted play of the Bad Company series, and turning the series into some Rainbow Six wannabe with all this hardcore tactical like play, put a stake into it's grave.

    Whatever our opinions, we of course want BF to succeed. And i have to say, a bit out of my league as to understanding what the hell they're doing over there.

    My initial reaction, at least over at DICE, i would maybe fire these folks. I'd clean slate of most all of them that had to do with all of these current gen iterations, the downward trend, and start fresh. I don't know who they are, or maybe if the ones who left maybe started this calamity. But they continue on like this. The pr disaster was inexplicable. They make a firm decision on ttk, to be overridden seemingly by a bunch of 20 somethings on you tube. This is multi billion dollar company we're talking about here.

    We hear new things are coming in the update, only for it to be total misinformation and/or delays. It just goes on. It seems the blind leading the blind over there, no roadmap we don't know which way is up. These are ONLY my opinions, but thank the OP for his.

    Time for Change.
  • 0SiGHT0
    455 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    It is true, that the current gen of BF has been a disaster. From BF4, until now, it's been problems after another, and just never brought us back to the hey days of the Bad Company series. I truely believe, 64 players was a mistake on a console platform more in tuned with 24 players.

    Getting away from the destruction and lighthearted play of the Bad Company series, and turning the series into some Rainbow Six wannabe with all this hardcore tactical like play, put a stake into it's grave.

    Whatever our opinions, we of course want BF to succeed. And i have to say, a bit out of my league as to understanding what the hell they're doing over there.

    My initial reaction, at least over at DICE, i would maybe fire these folks. I'd clean slate of most all of them that had to do with all of these current gen iterations, the downward trend, and start fresh. I don't know who they are, or maybe if the ones who left maybe started this calamity. But they continue on like this. The pr disaster was inexplicable. They make a firm decision on ttk, to be overridden seemingly by a bunch of 20 somethings on you tube. This is multi billion dollar company we're talking about here.

    We hear new things are coming in the update, only for it to be total misinformation and/or delays. It just goes on. It seems the blind leading the blind over there, no roadmap we don't know which way is up. These are ONLY my opinions, but thank the OP for his.

    Time for Change.

    I'm not even advocating for "firing" anyone, I think there are still many talented people that work there and people who have worked on the past BF games that are universally loved. The problem is the path they have chosen is one that has not been rewarding, and the franchise has become tainted to the point where sales are suffering substantially.

    I agree on the TTK point, and it's multi tiered. First, they need to know the changes they are making are the correct ones based on their own testing, data and conviction. Second, they can't let their conviction be swayed by promoters aka "game creators" on YouTube. The only thing is, I'm not even sure if they have convictions. I remember on older BF games the devs would come onto the forums and argue and describe their opinions and present counterpoints to how things are designed. They stuck with what they thought was right, did not cave to a little bit of opposing views, and made damn good games doing so. Today, it's completely the opposite.
  • Redstripe101
    2546 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    This game is a direct reflection of their studio and ability.
  • xBCxSEALxTEAMx6
    1375 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    0SiGHT0 wrote: »
    It is true, that the current gen of BF has been a disaster. From BF4, until now, it's been problems after another, and just never brought us back to the hey days of the Bad Company series. I truely believe, 64 players was a mistake on a console platform more in tuned with 24 players.

    Getting away from the destruction and lighthearted play of the Bad Company series, and turning the series into some Rainbow Six wannabe with all this hardcore tactical like play, put a stake into it's grave.

    Whatever our opinions, we of course want BF to succeed. And i have to say, a bit out of my league as to understanding what the hell they're doing over there.

    My initial reaction, at least over at DICE, i would maybe fire these folks. I'd clean slate of most all of them that had to do with all of these current gen iterations, the downward trend, and start fresh. I don't know who they are, or maybe if the ones who left maybe started this calamity. But they continue on like this. The pr disaster was inexplicable. They make a firm decision on ttk, to be overridden seemingly by a bunch of 20 somethings on you tube. This is multi billion dollar company we're talking about here.

    We hear new things are coming in the update, only for it to be total misinformation and/or delays. It just goes on. It seems the blind leading the blind over there, no roadmap we don't know which way is up. These are ONLY my opinions, but thank the OP for his.

    Time for Change.

    I'm not even advocating for "firing" anyone, I think there are still many talented people that work there and people who have worked on the past BF games that are universally loved. The problem is the path they have chosen is one that has not been rewarding, and the franchise has become tainted to the point where sales are suffering substantially.

    I agree on the TTK point, and it's multi tiered. First, they need to know the changes they are making are the correct ones based on their own testing, data and conviction. Second, they can't let their conviction be swayed by promoters aka "game creators" on YouTube. The only thing is, I'm not even sure if they have convictions. I remember on older BF games the devs would come onto the forums and argue and describe their opinions and present counterpoints to how things are designed. They stuck with what they thought was right, did not cave to a little bit of opposing views, and made damn good games doing so. Today, it's completely the opposite.

    Of course. Let me say this. When i come to any forum, on others property, as an older gentleman, i treat it as if i'm in their store. I'm on their property, and conduct myself as such. That's always my tact. I have never once, come into a public forum, and ask for someone be fired. It's unbecoming, folks may not see it as fair, and the of course, the propietor can just as well tell you to get out.

    So, for me to day that, i take it very seriously. And here's the deal. I've seen this movie before with Medal of Honor. And i seen them take series, listen to the exact wrong people (kids on forums). and literally, kill the franchise. Difference then though was, they had big games like this to fall back in, their sports doing very well, etc.

    Atp, that is not at all the case here. Its all a downward trend, and i feel could end this series. I mean even when they got past the pr nightmare, the game did sell number two on xbox (according to the store).

    So, the sales, albeit on sale, was starting to look on the better side of things. The problem was, it was number 17th, played. Which is to say, they were buying it, but disliking the gameplay. And the downward trend continues, being with no premium, retention is key.. So, they surpassed that, only to now get burnt by bad gameplay.

    So, if i was EA, and seeing these problems this developer is not resolving, not just here, but BF1 that saw monstrous player drops out of the gate, and of course Battlefront, what should we do if we were EA?

    I'd clean house atp, or at least the ones making these ill informed decisions a go. But being everyone would point fingers, i'd just get rid of them, and save this series.

    Sad to say, and not easy to say, but to screw up this WW2 title, is like screwing up a simple cup of coffee. Who made the decisions on "little known battles of WW2"? I mean, who the hell made THAT decision? That was ridiculous. I mean it goes on, and thank you for your point.
  • 0SiGHT0
    455 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    0SiGHT0 wrote: »
    It is true, that the current gen of BF has been a disaster. From BF4, until now, it's been problems after another, and just never brought us back to the hey days of the Bad Company series. I truely believe, 64 players was a mistake on a console platform more in tuned with 24 players.

    Getting away from the destruction and lighthearted play of the Bad Company series, and turning the series into some Rainbow Six wannabe with all this hardcore tactical like play, put a stake into it's grave.

    Whatever our opinions, we of course want BF to succeed. And i have to say, a bit out of my league as to understanding what the hell they're doing over there.

    My initial reaction, at least over at DICE, i would maybe fire these folks. I'd clean slate of most all of them that had to do with all of these current gen iterations, the downward trend, and start fresh. I don't know who they are, or maybe if the ones who left maybe started this calamity. But they continue on like this. The pr disaster was inexplicable. They make a firm decision on ttk, to be overridden seemingly by a bunch of 20 somethings on you tube. This is multi billion dollar company we're talking about here.

    We hear new things are coming in the update, only for it to be total misinformation and/or delays. It just goes on. It seems the blind leading the blind over there, no roadmap we don't know which way is up. These are ONLY my opinions, but thank the OP for his.

    Time for Change.

    I'm not even advocating for "firing" anyone, I think there are still many talented people that work there and people who have worked on the past BF games that are universally loved. The problem is the path they have chosen is one that has not been rewarding, and the franchise has become tainted to the point where sales are suffering substantially.

    I agree on the TTK point, and it's multi tiered. First, they need to know the changes they are making are the correct ones based on their own testing, data and conviction. Second, they can't let their conviction be swayed by promoters aka "game creators" on YouTube. The only thing is, I'm not even sure if they have convictions. I remember on older BF games the devs would come onto the forums and argue and describe their opinions and present counterpoints to how things are designed. They stuck with what they thought was right, did not cave to a little bit of opposing views, and made damn good games doing so. Today, it's completely the opposite.

    Of course. Let me say this. When i come to any forum, on others property, as an older gentleman, i treat it as if i'm in their store. I'm on their property, and conduct myself as such. That's always my tact. I have never once, come into a public forum, and ask for someone be fired. It's unbecoming, folks may not see it as fair, and the of course, the propietor can just as well tell you to get out.

    So, for me to day that, i take it very seriously. And here's the deal. I've seen this movie before with Medal of Honor. And i seen them take series, listen to the exact wrong people (kids on forums). and literally, kill the franchise. Difference then though was, they had big games like this to fall back in, their sports doing very well, etc.

    Atp, that is not at all the case here. Its all a downward trend, and i feel could end this series. I mean even when they got past the pr nightmare, the game did sell number two on xbox (according to the store).

    So, the sales, albeit on sale, was starting to look on the better side of things. The problem was, it was number 17th, played. Which is to say, they were buying it, but disliking the gameplay. And the downward trend continues, being with no premium, retention is key.. So, they surpassed that, only to now get burnt by bad gameplay.

    So, if i was EA, and seeing these problems this developer is not resolving, not just here, but BF1 that saw monstrous player drops out of the gate, and of course Battlefront, what should we do if we were EA?

    I'd clean house atp, or at least the ones making these ill informed decisions a go. But being everyone would point fingers, i'd just get rid of them, and save this series.

    Sad to say, and not easy to say, but to screw up this WW2 title, is like screwing up a simple cup of coffee. Who made the decisions on "little known battles of WW2"? I mean, who the hell made THAT decision? That was ridiculous. I mean it goes on, and thank you for your point.

    Funny that you say Medal of Honor because that studio is now known as DICE LA and is probably responsible for a lot of this mess, to say the least.
  • Cpt_Blitz_26
    280 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited January 29
    How to "Save" this game on a content level.

    Scale it to another level.

    From the start of the war (this is where we are) to the end of the war... add in the content applicable to that time period.
    Have the factions enter the war in order, with the maps, weapons, vehicles and cosmetics with them. USF, Soviet Union, Japan, etc.

    This will allow enough new content and variety to keep us happy while they continue to hone in on the gameplay issues and bugs.

    Because let's be completely honest, the game looks amazing and plays pretty darn great atm. Yeah there are a few bugs and tweaks that need to happen, but I think those can be ironed out in the coming months.

    My biggest fear is people losing interest, but if you lay it out as I described above, covering the entire war... It will be the best WW2 game of all time.

    The framework is here to be truely the greatest yet, but it needs to be fleshed out with the right content.
  • 0SiGHT0
    455 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    How to "Save" this game on a content level.

    Scale it to another level.

    From the start of the war (this is where we are) to the end of the war... add in the content applicable to that time period.
    Have the factions enter the war in order, with the maps, weapons, vehicles and cosmetics with them. USF, Soviet Union, Japan, etc.

    This will allow enough new content and variety to keep us happy while they continue to hone in on the gameplay issues and bugs.

    Because let's be completely honest, the game looks amazing and plays pretty darn great atm. Yeah there are a few bugs and tweaks that need to happen, but I think those can be ironed out in the coming months.

    My biggest fear is people losing interest, but if you lay it out as I described above, covering the entire war... It will be the best WW2 game of all time.

    The framework is here to be truely the greatest yet, but it needs to be fleshed out with the right content.

    The good qualities of this game end at "looks amazing".
  • xeNizKing
    349 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited January 29
    It is true, that the current gen of BF has been a disaster. From BF4, until now, it's been problems after another, and just never brought us back to the hey days of the Bad Company series. I truely believe, 64 players was a mistake on a console platform more in tuned with 24 players.

    Getting away from the destruction and lighthearted play of the Bad Company series, and turning the series into some Rainbow Six wannabe with all this hardcore tactical like play, put a stake into it's grave.

    Whatever our opinions, we of course want BF to succeed. And i have to say, a bit out of my league as to understanding what the hell they're doing over there.

    My initial reaction, at least over at DICE, i would maybe fire these folks. I'd clean slate of most all of them that had to do with all of these current gen iterations, the downward trend, and start fresh. I don't know who they are, or maybe if the ones who left maybe started this calamity. But they continue on like this. The pr disaster was inexplicable. They make a firm decision on ttk, to be overridden seemingly by a bunch of 20 somethings on you tube. This is multi billion dollar company we're talking about here.

    We hear new things are coming in the update, only for it to be total misinformation and/or delays. It just goes on. It seems the blind leading the blind over there, no roadmap we don't know which way is up. These are ONLY my opinions, but thank the OP for his.

    Time for Change.

    Regarding the "tactical like play aspect" I completely agree.

    Spotting worked fine in Bad Company 2. Not many complained by comparison, same with 3 and 4. Only a small vocal minority started raging and youtubers jumped on the band wagon with "a muuuh hurrrdcooooore play style" and got DICE to change it for this battlefield. Its way more "tactical" requiring people to work together more which is the biggest problem I see with this entire game. l am not a fan of the TTK or TTD at all either. If i wanted to play counter-strike...I'd play counter-strike. If I wanted a realistic experience i'd go play Arma III. If I wanted pure squad play I'd go play PUBG or siege. The lack of a lone wolf play-style for those who cannot always play with people or want to win but are put with people who just want to snipe far away from the objective is causing this game many problems as well.

    Why? because it just doesn't work. Yeah people might be happy enough in their premade squads but what about the average player who doesnt have that many people to play with or who has to play alone for most of it? its just crap. No spotting means a camp heavy play-style from the playerbase which in turn pushes players away. I want the days back where you knew you could be marked and they knew they could be marked so they always stayed on the move never stayed in one spot for too long. It was always about whoever had the better aim at that point never about constantly being shot in the back because of bs lighting and crap visual fidelity.

    Its cool to have a more tactical play aspect to a game on paper but when its implemented like this? when its got nothing left that made people love BF from the people who like BF 3-4 and even the people from 1942 onwards (some of them anyway) its just pants.

    - Bring spotting back at least for squads only not global (not this marker crap which is barely effective and doesn't really bridge the language barrier).
    - Stop with this ridiculous blurred line between "hardcore" and "casual" mode. Its sloppy and poorly implemented considering most of the people who actually play are the minority compared to how many people played the games before you can just see how much this has cost the playerbase in terms of players. Its even got to the point where I am starting to bump into the same people from matches hours ago which hasn't happened in a battlefield title for me before unless I was playing on a player hosted server.
    - Make tanks useful again and not gimped on arrival by the systemic damage system and remove the heavy tanks from call in and have them be selectable.
    - Fix the god damned planes. Bombers no longer for-fill their role properly due to nerfs and the fighters are overpowered as hell so bombers are pretty much dead.
    - AND STOP CATERING TO DAMNED ASSAULT MAINS.
    - Fix the match making.
    - Rework Grand operations.
    - and stop with the infantry focused maps give us big maps balanced between both mech and infantry. This is battlefield not CoDfield 5. Vehicles are an important part of this franchise but the maps are so stupid that vehicles half the time cant even get going because they're swarmed at almost every turn forcing players to camp in order to survive when playing solo and just barely surviving in premade squads the only ones exempt to an extent from this is planes due to the fact well...they're flying and tanks are snails apparently - then theres the fact tanks need to back track so often to a stupid resupply station just to fully repair and restock which means tanks are out of combat and not doing anything for 50% of the match. Couple them with their speed and they are pretty much useless. They're also fodder for bombers because they have to go to those resupply depots and for mines that can be glitched into the depots killing the tank resupplying and the depot itself in one fell swoop and NOBODY but the drivers seemingly rebuild them unless a support is doing an assignment -_-

    #rantover

    P.s: hmm this game makes me angry apparently.
  • diagoro
    1530 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    I'm continually amazed at how sloppy the developing has become. Not just initial releases, but with each patch. There appears to be a very low level of quality control. I'm not a game developer, but can't imagine anything close to this in most other fields. The only one is baseball, where 25% success rate for hitters is acceptable.

    There's a downward slide that the franchise is taking, both in terms of profitability and quality. I can't stomach any other fos, so it's painful to watch, and literally pray things get corrected at some point.
  • 0SiGHT0
    455 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    diagoro wrote: »
    I'm continually amazed at how sloppy the developing has become. Not just initial releases, but with each patch. There appears to be a very low level of quality control. I'm not a game developer, but can't imagine anything close to this in most other fields. The only one is baseball, where 25% success rate for hitters is acceptable.

    There's a downward slide that the franchise is taking, both in terms of profitability and quality. I can't stomach any other fos, so it's painful to watch, and literally pray things get corrected at some point.

    Absolutely correct, and it's been this way since BF4's launch. Thank you for your post.
  • ProAssassin2003
    2949 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Not to put down the developers working hard on this and the ones that care about the game but.......

    I think the Talent has left DICE. It's the skeleton crew compared to what was before.

  • 0SiGHT0
    455 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited January 30
    Not to put down the developers working hard on this and the ones that care about the game but.......

    I think the Talent has left DICE. It's the skeleton crew compared to what was before.

    I think you are correct. It's multi-faceted: there's the many issues that are always in the newer BF games, and then there's the recent design that is in contrary to what the franchise has showcased for a long while. Go back and just copy if you have to what people actually liked and what had thoughtful design. If you have to fire some people who can't seem to make an issue/bug/glitch free game, so be it.

    Also, consider that many high staff at DICE that probably were very experienced and had the most knowledge about their engine and process are now gone. Trying to replicate and advance someone else's work is not easy. But that's how life is sometimes, and the BF community is obviously suffering.
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