AA is OP again. Dmg vs light aircraft is way too high.

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Comments

  • Kinjishi99
    31 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    my comment disappeared?

    Yeah but you are forced to get close to take it down and if you were forced to take it down before because it was too much annoying, with this update it has become a priority.

    But if you have a MKVA it's almost impossible, since you can't get close enough to bomb it. You will die. If you have rockets you can deal with it, so it may be ok for BF109 and MKVB (which is a trash plane because no instant repair = flying in a coffin especially with AA in its current state). But in fact, it's not ok at all. Since most of the time you are killing bomber or dogfighting when you are in the sky.

    And now if a stationary AA is used there is almost nothing you can do but dying. Even if you escape, you would have taken so much damage that the enemy plane you were fighting will easily finish you off.
  • Loki_Deezie
    872 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Kinjishi99 wrote: »
    my comment disappeared?

    Yeah but you are forced to get close to take it down and if you were forced to take it down before because it was too much annoying, with this update it has become a priority.

    But if you have a MKVA it's almost impossible, since you can't get close enough to bomb it. You will die. If you have rockets you can deal with it, so it may be ok for BF109 and MKVB (which is a trash plane because no instant repair = flying in a coffin especially with AA in its current state). But in fact, it's not ok at all. Since most of the time you are killing bomber or dogfighting when you are in the sky.

    And now if a stationary AA is used there is almost nothing you can do but dying. Even if you escape, you would have taken so much damage that the enemy plane you were fighting will easily finish you off.

    Where is your AA? Why do you feel a plane should be able to take out the AA? This is a team game, ground troops/tanks should be taking the AA out.

    I don't think a plane should be able to do 1 strafe run and destroy/kill the AA without dying/near dying. It sounds much like pilots just want to be uncontested from the ground.

    What I have noticed is I cant just see where the AA is shooting from and be like oooooh free kill. Now I have to be aware of where it is and not get to close unless I want to play the game of chance with killing/destroying it.

  • Kinjishi99
    31 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Kinjishi99 wrote: »
    my comment disappeared?

    Yeah but you are forced to get close to take it down and if you were forced to take it down before because it was too much annoying, with this update it has become a priority.

    But if you have a MKVA it's almost impossible, since you can't get close enough to bomb it. You will die. If you have rockets you can deal with it, so it may be ok for BF109 and MKVB (which is a trash plane because no instant repair = flying in a coffin especially with AA in its current state). But in fact, it's not ok at all. Since most of the time you are killing bomber or dogfighting when you are in the sky.

    And now if a stationary AA is used there is almost nothing you can do but dying. Even if you escape, you would have taken so much damage that the enemy plane you were fighting will easily finish you off.

    Where is your AA? Why do you feel a plane should be able to take out the AA? This is a team game, ground troops/tanks should be taking the AA out.

    I don't think a plane should be able to do 1 strafe run and destroy/kill the AA without dying/near dying. It sounds much like pilots just want to be uncontested from the ground.

    What I have noticed is I cant just see where the AA is shooting from and be like oooooh free kill. Now I have to be aware of where it is and not get to close unless I want to play the game of chance with killing/destroying it.

    I would be ok with your statement only if : stationary AA were not everywhere in the map, including at spawn where nobody can contest it. And if AA tank were not able to contest half or more of the map simply staying at their spawn resupplies, where none of your teammate will go.

    I agree stationary AA needed a buff. Maybe a small buff. But they received a huge and gamebreaking buff. Now they need a nerf. They needed to do more damage than before and also be more accurate. Now they are more accurate and deals at least 2 times more damage it's far too much.

    AA tanks needs a huge nerf, no matter what you think. I tried the flakpanzer, it's just stupid, and not only on fighters.
  • Kinjishi99
    31 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    I found a new video :

    The tank start shooting when the plane is at half of the bridge, meaning in this position, the flakpanzer can cover almost half of twisted steel from all enemy planes. Which means, if you are in a fighter, you won't be able ton contest any enemy fighters or bomber unless if they are foolish enough to come to resupplies at your spawn.

    It's sad I don't recorded me killing spitfire and bomber with my flakpanzer. You would have found it interesting.
  • Astr0damus
    2904 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Kauzer_RF wrote: »
    Thx for the patch. Now fighters die in 2 seconds. It is almost impossible to escape. Looks like dmg from AA was increased like x3 or even more from previous build. This is insane, make something middle DICE.

    IF this is true... HOOORAY!!!
  • LeesSummit09
    490 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited January 2019
    Depends on map and locations of AA and players. Playing breakthrough tonight, attacking team bomber went 68-0 and later on Hamada, defending bomber, different guy, went 81-1. But maybe it's just fighters it shoots down.
    Post edited by LeesSummit09 on
  • Zipeh
    39 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    The more i read this thread the more im curious if it really should be two threads, with stationary and mobile discussed separately?

    I dont know how much of their code is related .. are changes to one automatically applied in some fashion to the other? .. or can they "easily" tweaked a bit separately?. Maybe there are linkages so they cant be viewed as separate topics .. like the way the munition works once its left the barrel.

    I feel that stationary AA is is in a different place to the mobile AA,and the two mobile AA are different to each other. Should they all be discussed in the same thread?


  • Holyshogun
    128 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Member
    Astr0damus wrote: »
    Kauzer_RF wrote: »
    Thx for the patch. Now fighters die in 2 seconds. It is almost impossible to escape. Looks like dmg from AA was increased like x3 or even more from previous build. This is insane, make something middle DICE.

    IF this is true... HOOORAY!!!


    The game is bleeding players due to the borderline patches. There is no silver lining
  • TropicPoison
    2505 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    I think pilots cry the hardest, and then assaults if anyone even dares mention nerfing it, and then support behind that.
  • nitto1870
    7 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    I do not want to offend, but it seems to me that you are very bad with planes. I consider myself to noob using airplanes (I use the spitfire, 14 kills in 1 hour and 30 minutes of flight, terrible stats) But I have no problem with anti-aircraft weapons. They do little damage and are very easy to dodge.
  • Holyshogun
    128 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Member
    When attack planes die too fast towards AA, pilots will just switch to bombers instead = means more carpet bombing infantery.

    But u didnt think about that now, did you??
  • Holyshogun
    128 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Member
    RoDM44n wrote: »
    Alrici0 wrote: »
    Kauzer_RF wrote: »
    Problem is that player needs a skill to be effective as pilot. AA gunner can drink bear with one hand and be OP with second one, press LMB to be imba. This is unbalanced situation. I do agree that in previous build AA was a joke and completely useless, but now it is OP, again....

    You should not try to drink a bear. He would bite you.
    Jokes aside, AA is easy prey for tanks and assault so it definitly is not as easy as "press LMB to be imba".

    It's not the case when MAA is in his red zone and can't be harassed by infantry

    Yes true 100%

    Camping MAA...
  • Kauzer_RF
    229 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    nitto1870 wrote: »
    I do not want to offend, but it seems to me that you are very bad with planes. I consider myself to noob using airplanes (I use the spitfire, 14 kills in 1 hour and 30 minutes of flight, terrible stats) But I have no problem with anti-aircraft weapons. They do little damage and are very easy to dodge.

    Ye it is so "easy" to dodge AOE explosive dmg, with like 25-30 dmg per hit with coverage area nearly full map. Probably no one actually shoot at you or it was not AA. Thers a video above where MAA Ostwind staying at the begining of bridge covers almost full map. Dude on spit died in 1.58 secs....
  • dinobass
    155 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    I like where AA is right now. There's more damage to a plane that is approaching the AA than going away. A pilot has to realize he's taking damage and change course, and I've been able to do it in a plane (and I SUCK as pilot). There's just a little more strategy on both sides. You can adjust damage numbers, but the AA mechanics are pretty solid and fun right now IMHO.
  • DingoKillr
    4343 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    RoDM44n wrote: »
    Alrici0 wrote: »
    Kauzer_RF wrote: »
    Problem is that player needs a skill to be effective as pilot. AA gunner can drink bear with one hand and be OP with second one, press LMB to be imba. This is unbalanced situation. I do agree that in previous build AA was a joke and completely useless, but now it is OP, again....

    You should not try to drink a bear. He would bite you.
    Jokes aside, AA is easy prey for tanks and assault so it definitly is not as easy as "press LMB to be imba".

    It's not the case when MAA is in his red zone and can't be harassed by infantry
    Piat is long range capable. I was hitting the MAA camped near the hill from A on Aerodrome. If only 1 Assault guys at B did the same on their side the MAA driver would not have camped on hill at all.

    There is no map that a tank or Infantry can not reach a MAA in a red zone. Sure Mortar or AT gun could most likely do the job better but we don't have those. Maybe we should think about actual game play that solves problems.
  • full951
    2468 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    TheSacar wrote: »
    @XEN_wunderwaffle

    I simply cannot see how one can claim balance, when any drunk buffoon can melt a plane in one second without practice. Imagine if they added a new gun, which could kill every soldier in a single shot without the need for accuracy. Everybody could pick that gun and effortlessly kill one or two soldiers before being killed by that gun themselves. So everybody would be in the same boat and one could argue the gun is balanced. But would that be a fun game to play?
    .
    That is what the mobile AA is right now. A weapon that kills quickly with no skill required. You don't even have to be accurate. Whereas as a pilot you need skill. YOu need skill not to crash, you need skill to find targets and drop your bombs on them and you need skill to MG infantrymen. All that skill is acquired with practice.
    .
    Shouldn't you need skill to do good? Shouldn't you be rewarded for practicing a lot with a certain gun? Otherwise we can just as well stand on opposite sides of a wall and lob grenades at each other....

    you're exaggerating. You still have to aim the thing and not get killed by bombers or tanks that hard counter you easily

    It takes about as much skill to take out a fighter with the AA as it does to take out a bomber with a fighter i.e. very little

    You lot act like flying in this game is some skilled endeavour. It's not. They've practically removed the skill gap. Shooting other planes is braindead easy and even infantry (with bombers, put the big circle on them, with fighters spray until you get red doritos and then let 8x.303 spread handle the rest).

    Truth bomb post 10/10
  • nitto1870
    7 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited January 2019
    Kauzer_RF wrote: »
    nitto1870 wrote: »
    I do not want to offend, but it seems to me that you are very bad with planes. I consider myself to noob using airplanes (I use the spitfire, 14 kills in 1 hour and 30 minutes of flight, terrible stats) But I have no problem with anti-aircraft weapons. They do little damage and are very easy to dodge.

    Ye it is so "easy" to dodge AOE explosive dmg, with like 25-30 dmg per hit with coverage area nearly full map. Probably no one actually shoot at you or it was not AA. Thers a video above where MAA Ostwind staying at the begining of bridge covers almost full map. Dude on spit died in 1.58 secs....

    Maybe in another game version. Currently it does not work like this.
    Edit: I try again AA stationary weapon (Patch 30/01/2019) and apparently is working fine. (On the first attempt I shot down an airplane)
    Post edited by nitto1870 on
  • Hawxxeye
    7731 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    As someone who has experienced both the air and the ground in BF games I feel that if an AA is not good enough to be a genuine threat even to the best pilots (when used to its outmost potential ofc by the user) it has no reason of existing.
    .
    If the AA is being too strong right now then it needs some fine tuning so that it is not making the 2 thirds of the map into a no flight zone but also strong enough that if a fighter is attacking the AA the fighter has to be destroyed.
    .
    The job of destroying an AA should be either the job of ground forces or well flown bombers. If the fighters are not getting destroyed by the AA then like pre patch they will rule the skies making the bombers worthless.
    I think a good balance would be like this
    Bomber counters AA, fighter counters bomber, AA counters fighter
  • Weddellrobben
    28 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited January 2019
    Do it like in every other iteration of the game. Team up with your wingman, put down a squad spotting mark and tell via discord where you ve seen the AA. You both unleash your rocketpods and the AA is toast. Do that every 30seconds if somebody else takes the AA and the same happens as in BF3 and 4. Nobody will go into planes/AA anymore and you can roam uncontested.
    Dont whine so much, adapt and reckt the enemy team.
    It feels plane/jet pilots are the people disgusted by teamplay. If you cant handle something on your own, you dont deserve to kill it. If its something that directly counters you (AA) then you deserve to die.
  • TheSacar
    1005 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    After some more experience playing yesterday and having tried all four fighter variants, the Flakpanzer with its fast firing quad cannon and the Valentine with the standard Cannon and tripple Oerlikon adn stationary AA, here are my thoughts on the current ground/fighter balance:
    .
    Fighters:
    There is a considerable asymmetric balance between Germans and Brits. When no German Flakpanzer is around the Spitfires still rule the air, but they are much more vulnerable to stationary AA compared to their German counterparts, especially the Mk VA. For some reason Spitfire machine guns no longer do any serious damage to AA gunners while with German fighters two rockets are a guaranteed kill of the AA gunner.
    However, as soon as a Flakpanzer spawns, the balance shifts entirely to the German team. Spitfires will no longer live long enough to do anything, as they are ridiculously vulnerable to the quad cannon of the Flakpanzer. Even mosquitoes and bombers die excessively fast.
    The Spitfire VB can take on a stationary AA gun with its rockets, but due to its slower turning speed it dies even quicker to all forms of AA than the Spitifre VA. The BF109 G6 is the more effective plane when it comes to air to ground and the better choice when no faster turning spitfires are around. By comparison the G2 turns better, but with current AA it is a paper plane. No other fighter loses so much maneuverability when receiving systemic damage. Both spitfires and the G6 are still capable of decent maneuvers with a damaged wing or rudder, the G2 really isn't. Random systemic damage on planes is absolutely stupid in my opinion.
    The spitfire VA with its spread is much more effective against infantry than any other plane and the most effective fighter for infantry on the German side is the G6. However the G6 doesn't have air radar, whereas the VA does.
    I'd prefer if there were no air radar or if it was at least an active ability that has to be activated and last only a certain amount of time. But if it is here to stay it should be reliable. I have often had cases were specific pilots wouldn't show up on air radar. I feel it happens more in the G2 than in the VA.
    .
    Stationary AA:
    From a pilots perspective I'd say it is almost in a good place. The damage might be a bit high, but it is manageable. However, the first hit causes a systemic (wing/rudder/engine) damage 90% of the time and most of the AA damage is non-repairable. That is too much in my opinion. Depending on what fighter one flies, systemic damage can outright kill you. I'd prefer if the AA damage would properly scale with distance (i.e. the closer you get the more damage you receive) and perhaps the nose should be especially vulnerable to AA fire, to give the AA an edge in heads on engagements.
    .
    Valentine AA
    As an aerial defense weapon, this is fine. I'd still like to see a mechanic that prevents it from camping in base or next to the red zone though. And the range might be a bit on the long side. The case rounds are utterly ridiculous though. They OHK infantry from absurd distances. The damage output against other armor is also a bit much in my opinion. Why does a Panzer 38 lose a 1v1 against a Valentine AA?
    .
    Flakpanzer
    Now this thing is utterly OP right now. It kills fighters absurdly quick and without giving fighter pilots even a chance to escape. And that with way too much range. Even with emergency field repair escaping from a Flakpanzer is nearly impossible as it is capable of doing 150% damage in about 3 seconds. The massive air burst damage on the quad cannon is absolutely broken. There really shouldn't be a single vehicle that can turn the tables on the battlefield by itself, but that is what the Flakpanzer does right now. The British may have air superiority, but as soon as a Flakpanzer shows up they lose it. The Valentine AA does not have that effect. Currently the Flakpanzer is what Behemoths were intended to be in BF1 - the super weapon that turns the tide.
    The Flakpanzer is also much too effective against infantry and even armor, especially as it does not have to deal with bullet drop like regular tanks do.
    .
    IMO all mobile AA should not be effective against infantry with their anti-air cannon, but receive a secondary MG for defense (remember the AA truck in BF1?).
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