Can we finally admit attrition was a terrible addition to battlefield?

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Comments

  • sabootheshaman
    376 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    GrumbleSG9 wrote: »
    I'm quite liking the attrition system overall. When I first played BFV I wasn't so keen but it's really grown on me.

    My only gripes ...

    It would be nice if we spawned in with a full load-out and I think the ammo/medic crates need some tweaking to make them an appealing choice to equip.

    Same... My thoughts are the best solution is if you are spawning from a flag or vehicle you get fully loaded. If you spawn from a squaddy it will be as is.

    For the tanks I think we should have a squad reinforcement of a mobile Ammo dump. The down side of this could be that if it gets struck it blows up enough to wipe the tank. That way it is a bit risk/reward balanced.
  • xKusagamix
    691 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    bran1986 wrote: »
    Luke88gw wrote: »
    how attrition was in alpha/beta?

    No bandages on spawn
    Health stations would only heal 50 points of health, needed a medic to get to 100
    Buddy revives were longer, as were medic revives
    Buddy revives healed only to 35 health
    If your squad wiped you wouldn't be able to be revived if you were down.
    One less magazine on spawn
    Less ammo picked up off dead bodies.

    I would not have even bought the game if it came like that at launch. Whoever designed that has clearly never had fun in a game before in their life.
    But some of the gunplay mechanics are based from that, and they changed the Attrition system but the gunplay stay the same. That's why Recon has such low damage with BARs, because you could actually kill more people in the Beta with that kind of Attrition system, not much of people running around with full health. Official game launch with 1 more mag and a health pouch for everyone but BARs damage stay the same.
  • bran1986
    5313 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    xKusagamix wrote: »
    bran1986 wrote: »
    Luke88gw wrote: »
    how attrition was in alpha/beta?

    No bandages on spawn
    Health stations would only heal 50 points of health, needed a medic to get to 100
    Buddy revives were longer, as were medic revives
    Buddy revives healed only to 35 health
    If your squad wiped you wouldn't be able to be revived if you were down.
    One less magazine on spawn
    Less ammo picked up off dead bodies.

    I would not have even bought the game if it came like that at launch. Whoever designed that has clearly never had fun in a game before in their life.
    But some of the gunplay mechanics are based from that, and they changed the Attrition system but the gunplay stay the same. That's why Recon has such low damage with BARs, because you could actually kill more people in the Beta with that kind of Attrition system, not much of people running around with full health. Official game launch with 1 more mag and a health pouch for everyone but BARs damage stay the same.

    Yeah that was the problem, DICE nerfed attrition which then severely nerfed recon and medic, especially when they reverted some of the changes like the 5 btk assault rifles vs 4 btk smgs.
  • SirTerrible
    1411 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    xKusagamix wrote: »
    bran1986 wrote: »
    Luke88gw wrote: »
    how attrition was in alpha/beta?

    No bandages on spawn
    Health stations would only heal 50 points of health, needed a medic to get to 100
    Buddy revives were longer, as were medic revives
    Buddy revives healed only to 35 health
    If your squad wiped you wouldn't be able to be revived if you were down.
    One less magazine on spawn
    Less ammo picked up off dead bodies.

    I would not have even bought the game if it came like that at launch. Whoever designed that has clearly never had fun in a game before in their life.
    But some of the gunplay mechanics are based from that, and they changed the Attrition system but the gunplay stay the same. That's why Recon has such low damage with BARs, because you could actually kill more people in the Beta with that kind of Attrition system, not much of people running around with full health. Official game launch with 1 more mag and a health pouch for everyone but BARs damage stay the same.

    Yeah some of the larger issues regarding balance are a relic of the early design around attrition, I agree.
  • _UnDerDog_XOX
    2 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    What I like is that it introduces a sort of handicap to better players. As an average player, I tend to die before running out of ammo and only occasionally find myself without a MED pack. As I’m getting better, I find I need to break from contact to ammo up or work closely with my squad and team to manage the attrition. This adds a new and i.m.o interesting aspect to the game.

    I also appreciate that you need to use your nades wisely, as there is no magically timed resupply.
  • disposalist
    8301 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    What I like is that it introduces a sort of handicap to better players
    Would have thought the 'better' players will be more accurate and kill people with less bullets.
  • NLBartmaN
    2683 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    When I play with my Platoon I hardly notice the attrition when I play with infantry, we always have a medic and support that keeps on resupplying all of us.

    But the attrition for vehicles was the worst idea ever, tankers very rarely help by attacking an objective, because they will run out of ammo to fast.

    It would make a huge difference if a support player was also able to resupply ammo to tankers.

    In plane fighting attrition was also a terrible idea: fighters just camp the resupply locations, no way to hide for them when you are a bomber, at some point you need to resupply and they just wait for you over there, they don't need to search for you.
  • crusam7
    115 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Yes or not if you want to know just look the game is so boring.
  • JediMastaWyn
    428 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited March 20
    In it's current guise. Don't think it makes much difference TBH. Far too much ammo/medic stations about to even notice.

    If there was no resupply stations and you only had to rely on Medics or Supports then there may be an issue!

  • mrtwotimes
    618 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    I simply don't understand any of this argument. As people have said, there's plenty of supplies around and people dropping them. I usually don't bother with health unless critical since i seem to heal up pretty fast. For me this is all a non-factor and I assume there are others with this view. Whether a game is fast or slow depends on multiple things, the foremost being the player.
  • spartanx169x
    637 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    mrtwotimes wrote: »
    I simply don't understand any of this argument. As people have said, there's plenty of supplies around and people dropping them. I usually don't bother with health unless critical since i seem to heal up pretty fast. For me this is all a non-factor and I assume there are others with this view. Whether a game is fast or slow depends on multiple things, the foremost being the player.

    First the stations often get destroyed which then of course require rebuilding which can get you killed either because you are building or having to wait for it to be built to get resupplied. Based on the comments most people don’t enjoy have to run back and forth to stations. It does nothing but force you to step away from the fight(s). It’s annoying and does nothing to promote fun gameplay. What it has done is contributed to slow and often times camping gameplay.
  • mrtwotimes
    618 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    mrtwotimes wrote: »
    I simply don't understand any of this argument. As people have said, there's plenty of supplies around and people dropping them. I usually don't bother with health unless critical since i seem to heal up pretty fast. For me this is all a non-factor and I assume there are others with this view. Whether a game is fast or slow depends on multiple things, the foremost being the player.

    First the stations often get destroyed which then of course require rebuilding which can get you killed either because you are building or having to wait for it to be built to get resupplied. Based on the comments most people don’t enjoy have to run back and forth to stations. It does nothing but force you to step away from the fight(s). It’s annoying and does nothing to promote fun game play. What it has done is contributed to slow and often times camping game play.

    War isn't fair
    War can get you killed
    Also, part of what I was saying is you don't have to run back and forth between stations.... that's a choice you make.
  • Sixclicks
    5065 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited March 20
    Just play support so your kill streaks aren't limited so heavily by ammo. That's probably why it's my best KDR class.

    Assault has my best KPM, but I often end up cutting a streak short due to a lack of ammo.
  • xKusagamix
    691 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    mrtwotimes wrote: »
    I simply don't understand any of this argument. As people have said, there's plenty of supplies around and people dropping them. I usually don't bother with health unless critical since i seem to heal up pretty fast. For me this is all a non-factor and I assume there are others with this view. Whether a game is fast or slow depends on multiple things, the foremost being the player.

    First the stations often get destroyed which then of course require rebuilding which can get you killed either because you are building or having to wait for it to be built to get resupplied. Based on the comments most people don’t enjoy have to run back and forth to stations. It does nothing but force you to step away from the fight(s). It’s annoying and does nothing to promote fun gameplay. What it has done is contributed to slow and often times camping gameplay.
    In my view, the Supply station keep you on your feet and fight longer. So built it if you can.

    It's an advantage of the defender, so take as much objective as you can to gain it.
  • StrikerLeecy126
    33 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    It works fine I think. The game play is much more better than BF1 and 4. Due to the bullet attrition, you need to rely on your support teammates or stations where in previous titles supply crates are mainly for gadget supply. And as tanks have limited ammo, I do see much less camping tanks than BF1, and making tankers do their jobs - helping teammats pushing objectives. While I think the system have less impact on bombers, at least for me, as I always fly away from the bombing area to avoid AA and reload in previous titles, and this is similar in BFV with the supply stations.
  • spartanx169x
    637 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    mrtwotimes wrote: »
    mrtwotimes wrote: »
    I simply don't understand any of this argument. As people have said, there's plenty of supplies around and people dropping them. I usually don't bother with health unless critical since i seem to heal up pretty fast. For me this is all a non-factor and I assume there are others with this view. Whether a game is fast or slow depends on multiple things, the foremost being the player.

    First the stations often get destroyed which then of course require rebuilding which can get you killed either because you are building or having to wait for it to be built to get resupplied. Based on the comments most people don’t enjoy have to run back and forth to stations. It does nothing but force you to step away from the fight(s). It’s annoying and does nothing to promote fun game play. What it has done is contributed to slow and often times camping game play.

    War isn't fair
    War can get you killed
    Also, part of what I was saying is you don't have to run back and forth between stations.... that's a choice you make.

    This is a game it is not a war simulation. Games are generally designed to be fair. You do indeed have to run back if you want to stay alive or you die and end up back there anyway, neither is fun. Both take you away from the fun which is the gun battles. What is the the point in making a shooter game if you constantly have to retreat to stay alive which is what the low ammo and med packs do. They force you to retreat or you go Rambo and die unless you are MLG and if you are good for you. But it sucks the fun out of the game for a fair amount of people.
  • Hawxxeye
    4450 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    It works fine I think. The game play is much more better than BF1 and 4. Due to the bullet attrition, you need to rely on your support teammates or stations where in previous titles supply crates are mainly for gadget supply. And as tanks have limited ammo, I do see much less camping tanks than BF1, and making tankers do their jobs - helping teammats pushing objectives. While I think the system have less impact on bombers, at least for me, as I always fly away from the bombing area to avoid AA and reload in previous titles, and this is similar in BFV with the supply stations.
    On the other hand the tanks are more campy than ever before because they are made of paper or move slow and run out of ammo
  • mrtwotimes
    618 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    mrtwotimes wrote: »
    mrtwotimes wrote: »
    I simply don't understand any of this argument. As people have said, there's plenty of supplies around and people dropping them. I usually don't bother with health unless critical since i seem to heal up pretty fast. For me this is all a non-factor and I assume there are others with this view. Whether a game is fast or slow depends on multiple things, the foremost being the player.

    First the stations often get destroyed which then of course require rebuilding which can get you killed either because you are building or having to wait for it to be built to get resupplied. Based on the comments most people don’t enjoy have to run back and forth to stations. It does nothing but force you to step away from the fight(s). It’s annoying and does nothing to promote fun game play. What it has done is contributed to slow and often times camping game play.

    War isn't fair
    War can get you killed
    Also, part of what I was saying is you don't have to run back and forth between stations.... that's a choice you make.

    This is a game it is not a war simulation. Games are generally designed to be fair. You do indeed have to run back if you want to stay alive or you die and end up back there anyway, neither is fun. Both take you away from the fun which is the gun battles. What is the the point in making a shooter game if you constantly have to retreat to stay alive which is what the low ammo and med packs do. They force you to retreat or you go Rambo and die unless you are MLG and if you are good for you. But it sucks the fun out of the game for a fair amount of people.

    It's a war game, prove me wrong
  • disposalist
    8301 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    mrtwotimes wrote: »
    mrtwotimes wrote: »
    mrtwotimes wrote: »
    I simply don't understand any of this argument. As people have said, there's plenty of supplies around and people dropping them. I usually don't bother with health unless critical since i seem to heal up pretty fast. For me this is all a non-factor and I assume there are others with this view. Whether a game is fast or slow depends on multiple things, the foremost being the player.
    First the stations often get destroyed which then of course require rebuilding which can get you killed either because you are building or having to wait for it to be built to get resupplied. Based on the comments most people don’t enjoy have to run back and forth to stations. It does nothing but force you to step away from the fight(s). It’s annoying and does nothing to promote fun game play. What it has done is contributed to slow and often times camping game play.
    War isn't fair
    War can get you killed
    Also, part of what I was saying is you don't have to run back and forth between stations.... that's a choice you make.
    This is a game it is not a war simulation. Games are generally designed to be fair. You do indeed have to run back if you want to stay alive or you die and end up back there anyway, neither is fun. Both take you away from the fun which is the gun battles. What is the the point in making a shooter game if you constantly have to retreat to stay alive which is what the low ammo and med packs do. They force you to retreat or you go Rambo and die unless you are MLG and if you are good for you. But it sucks the fun out of the game for a fair amount of people.
    It's a war game, prove me wrong
    "Game" is the important word there. It's not a simulation attempting to be realistic. It's meant to be fun. Realism is only good when it makes the game better.

    There are a *lot* of things in BF5 that I'm sure sounded like a good and realistic idea. They are turning out to be frustrating and un-fun.
  • trip1ex
    4329 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    The ammo/health crate thing just feels too forced and cookie cutter. It's like someone copying someone else's game but not really understanding how it works and you end up with a generic version of the original.

    That is how it feels to me. They knew BF42 had that stuff, but they didn't really understand how it worked nor the reasoning behind putting it into BF42 nor the reasoning behind the placement of these things in BF42. They just said well this will get the old geiser crowd if pay lip service to a few of these things. And so we get these and 1 runway on a map. :)
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