Re-Nerf the AP mines.

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  • llPhantom_Limbll
    5378 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    mrtwotimes wrote: »
    War sucks, sometimes you die.

    Damn, son.
  • Art3misJinx
    84 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    I have a total of 107 AP mine kills and never knew they got buffed to a single mine kill so I have still been placing 2 down to guarantee a kill. I can't see how many times I have died to them but I estimate it's under 25 because I look where I am going. If you die from an AP mine so often you think they need a nerf that's a player problem not a device issue.

    Is this the same OP who made the post about not placing them next to the resupply stations?

    Your argument is basically "I don't die from them so they don't need a nerf" 🤔
  • dutchmasta83
    353 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Pelliy wrote: »
    How would people feel about making them larger so they are easier to spot but keeping the current damage model?
    (P.S. I do not think they need to be nerfed at all)

    IMO Nerf them. They shouldn't be one hit kills. Not balanced at all.

    why not? Claymores are in BF4, HE tripmines were in BF1 if close enough. Just because something is a one hit kill does not mean it is not balanced, that argument is always thrown out but it's nonsense, a tank shell is a one hit kill, at grenade pistol is a one hit kill, bayonet charge is a one hit kill, there are plenty of one hit kills in BFV as there should be so why not the mines?
  • Trokey66
    8251 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    I have a total of 107 AP mine kills and never knew they got buffed to a single mine kill so I have still been placing 2 down to guarantee a kill. I can't see how many times I have died to them but I estimate it's under 25 because I look where I am going. If you die from an AP mine so often you think they need a nerf that's a player problem not a device issue.

    Is this the same OP who made the post about not placing them next to the resupply stations?

    Your argument is basically "I don't die from them so they don't need a nerf" 🤔

    Because he looks where he is going so yes, a perfectly reasonable argument in that case.
  • Pelliy
    2228 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Pelliy wrote: »
    How would people feel about making them larger so they are easier to spot but keeping the current damage model?
    (P.S. I do not think they need to be nerfed at all)

    IMO Nerf them. They shouldn't be one hit kills. Not balanced at all.

    why not? Claymores are in BF4, HE tripmines were in BF1 if close enough. Just because something is a one hit kill does not mean it is not balanced, that argument is always thrown out but it's nonsense, a tank shell is a one hit kill, at grenade pistol is a one hit kill, bayonet charge is a one hit kill, there are plenty of one hit kills in BFV as there should be so why not the mines?

    all those actions require action from the end user. You cannot hide a Tank shell , nor can you hide a grenade pistol. you actually have to switch to those things to engage it. The balance would be putting ap mines as they previously were. People should have no problem with that. You can kill someone on low health or you can kill someone from full health by placing two.

    That's a fair compromise.

    BF4 claymores were much bigger. They literally had lines coming from it. Same thing with BF1's trip wire. The visibility was there. they also nerfed the damage of them in bf1. So the argument you're trying to bring with those two examples seem invalidated.
  • Pelliy
    2228 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Sixclicks wrote: »
    We obviously can't have lethal mines because it interrupts the W+M1 playstyle of assault.

    "What, you mean I have to let go of the W key?!"

    ActionMan.exe has stopped responding.

    I love how this presupposes that only assault moves around. lol. What is this argument?

    So medics don't encounter this issue? I've played as a medic and encountered many ap mines. I've noticed the use of AP mines actually going up from the buff update compared to previous updates. It use to be a few people using them. Now that they are ubiquitous and omnipresent.

    Do people forget this game is 64 players? I think people forget. If you're checking every nook and cranny for the entirety of the game, you'll be playing "minesweeper" instead of battlefield 5.

    Players should be mindful of mines though. Not saying they should run aimlessly around but with 32 opposing enemies and more than half of them have planted an AP mine, there's gotta be some balance to that. This is not a specific class issue.
  • Pelliy
    2228 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    They aren't used tactically, they are either used to farm supply boxes or dropped into dark corners and rubble where they are impossible to see.

    Where is an acceptable place to put them then, in your opinion? In the middle of a brightly lit road?

    Anywhere is acceptable, of course. I'm merely pointing out they are not used tactically in the majority of cases. They are used to cheese kills by placing them in rubble and other dark places where they are impossible to notice.

    So they're using tactics and good positioning by placing them in places where people like to camp ie rubble and dark corners and in front of supply stations? That would fall under the doctrinal use of mines called area denial.

    They're not really denying anything if they're just placed randomly across the map.
  • Agent_Talon
    439 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    I have a total of 107 AP mine kills and never knew they got buffed to a single mine kill so I have still been placing 2 down to guarantee a kill. I can't see how many times I have died to them but I estimate it's under 25 because I look where I am going. If you die from an AP mine so often you think they need a nerf that's a player problem not a device issue.

    Is this the same OP who made the post about not placing them next to the resupply stations?

    Your argument is basically "I don't die from them so they don't need a nerf" 🤔

    My argument is play better and look around. The mine has a really neat mitigation, don't run into it. It's not an OP device it's a under powered player being dumb and getting wrecked.
  • Pelliy
    2228 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Curious to see if Assault class had AP mines, would this conversation exist or would it be nerf the AP mines assault has too many cheeky gadgets?

    I put my money on the second one.
  • Pelliy
    2228 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited March 4
    Pelliy wrote: »
    They aren't used tactically, they are either used to farm supply boxes or dropped into dark corners and rubble where they are impossible to see.

    Where is an acceptable place to put them then, in your opinion? In the middle of a brightly lit road?

    Anywhere is acceptable, of course. I'm merely pointing out they are not used tactically in the majority of cases. They are used to cheese kills by placing them in rubble and other dark places where they are impossible to notice.

    So they're using tactics and good positioning by placing them in places where people like to camp ie rubble and dark corners and in front of supply stations? That would fall under the doctrinal use of mines called area denial.

    They're not really denying anything if they're just placed randomly across the map.

    In Macho's example he said dark corners, rubble and earlier in the thread someone mentioned AP mines being placed in front of resupply stations. In this scenario the enemy has several options 1. to run in blindly and get killed, two not to use said resources (area denial), or three to expend some of their explosive munitions to clear the area for their planned use limiting their offensive power until they can resupply. Even if placed randomly on the map in a filed after dying to them a few time it will slow the enemies movement giving you more time to fortify an objective. All of those are tactical uses.

    In that example, Yes area denial is important. No issues there.

    In my example, Well no. Not necessarily.

    That's a loose application of tactical. It's not efficient. The person sniping from spawn or on the other side of the map can say he's keeping enemies at bay by killing stragglers, but that's not really being efficient. That's being an ineffective nuisance for your team and the opposing team. In regards to AP mines, they don't really impact the outcome of the game like that. They are cheeky. Only places they would be able to impact most likely is on rush. This is the same argument used for the lack of visibility. "Its tactical camouflage." Same thing for sweetspots in bf1 too.

    This is kinda why I don't like the PTFO mantra for the same reason I stated above. Anyone can play anyway and say they are PTFO'ing. Because the phrase is so ambiguous it doesn't really mean anything. Its whatever you want to make it mean.

    But I digress
  • Pelliy
    2228 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Pelliy wrote: »
    Pelliy wrote: »
    bran1986 wrote: »
    If you rush, you get punished for that. Seems fair to me.

    Found the guy sitting at the back with a sniper or in the corner with an mg.
    Punishing players for being aggressive is a stupid thing in my opinion, especially in a game that heavily promotes camping as Battlefield V does.
    AP mines are fine. Typical knee jerk reaction to call for a nerf.

    Check your environment, otherwise it's your own fault.

    Why am I not surprised the guy who camps as support with ap mines and selflessly abuses the ammo crate to get unlimited ap mines think the mines are totally fine 🤔

    i have played with @llPhantom_Limbll he isnt a camper, he is a team player.

    When people get upset they tend to throw assumptions based on nothing but their feelings. Just like good old hackusations.

    My accusation was based on you thinking aggressive play needs to be punished in a game as camper friendly as battlefield v 🙄

    He said rushing.

    To be fair,

    Rushing=/= aggressive play

    Not really. Sure not all aggressive play is rushing, but rushing is an aggressive play.

    I think you're arguing a strawman and trying to change what he means. He clearly explains in later posts.

    Not really. Battlefield is infamous for camping, battlefield v is probably one of the worst in the series, so buffing gadgets that punish people for being aggressive is stupid in my opinion. Even if the only aggressive players who get hurt by it are people who just zerg rush without using their brain.

    Yes, you are. Because Rushing does not equal aggressive play. Rushing is not always the smartest thing to do. You can push an objective without rushing an objective. You're twisting the man's words. I don't agree with phantom for his reasons why AP mines shouldn't be nerfed, but I don't think twisting his words lend any credence to the argument.
  • Astr0damus
    2901 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Let me ask a serious question... in CoD they had these discs that worked like bouncing bettys, they would spin up to head-height and then explode, killing several people in the room.. the balance to this though, was it made a loud enough sound and gave one enough time to crouch.. and if you were quick enough to crouch, you took minimal damage.. I mean like almost none at all. Would something like this make the AP Mines on BF V more tolerable? Not that DICE would ever listen to me, but don't just complain, help by coming up with alternatives. (And no, a straight-out nerf is not a feasible solution... the awareness/crouch at least lets them remain lethal to the clueless ones amongst us)
  • Astr0damus
    2901 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited March 4
    TyroneLoyd wrote: »
    I don't care either way. I'm still going to fart on the team. (I primary assualt) Nerf or no nerf. This argument about a useless gadget that hardly has an effect on the game is an eyesore kind of like how easy they are to avoid.

    I don't normally agree with you (on some issues) but this is one of them that I do agree.. the gadget is so ineffective, it is like seeing ten threads on "nerf the kilibri pistol" I mean why? Who is dying to kilibri pistols?
  • Astr0damus
    2901 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    I have a total of 107 AP mine kills and never knew they got buffed to a single mine kill so I have still been placing 2 down to guarantee a kill. I can't see how many times I have died to them but I estimate it's under 25 because I look where I am going. If you die from an AP mine so often you think they need a nerf that's a player problem not a device issue.

    Is this the same OP who made the post about not placing them next to the resupply stations?

    It would be funny if it was also the same pilot who made the thread about people putting AT mines on the runway (Map: Hamada, Flag: G) and said it was ruining the "fun" of piloting. OMG... every other spawn point you start off in the air.. and DICE makes one single runway in-bounds and people act like its the end of the world, when, in previous BF Titles, every plane took off from a runway that was accessible to enemies. Sorry for the mini-rant.. back on subject, the insignificant AP mine.
  • Astr0damus
    2901 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    I have a total of 107 AP mine kills and never knew they got buffed to a single mine kill so I have still been placing 2 down to guarantee a kill. I can't see how many times I have died to them but I estimate it's under 25 because I look where I am going. If you die from an AP mine so often you think they need a nerf that's a player problem not a device issue.

    Is this the same OP who made the post about not placing them next to the resupply stations?

    Your argument is basically "I don't die from them so they don't need a nerf" 🤔

    My argument is play better and look around. The mine has a really neat mitigation, don't run into it. It's not an OP device it's a under powered player being dumb and getting wrecked.

    My argument is to buff underpowered players. Why should I be punished for being worse than someone else? It's nice that they gave me in-game foodstamps in the way of crates of ammo and medical supplies (when I used to need teamwork to be effective) but I would like a little more, ya know? I dunno.. maybe sharks with laserbeams... nothing too OP
  • Sixclicks
    5073 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Pelliy wrote: »
    Sixclicks wrote: »
    We obviously can't have lethal mines because it interrupts the W+M1 playstyle of assault.

    "What, you mean I have to let go of the W key?!"

    ActionMan.exe has stopped responding.

    I love how this presupposes that only assault moves around. lol. What is this argument?

    So medics don't encounter this issue? I've played as a medic and encountered many ap mines. I've noticed the use of AP mines actually going up from the buff update compared to previous updates. It use to be a few people using them. Now that they are ubiquitous and omnipresent.

    Do people forget this game is 64 players? I think people forget. If you're checking every nook and cranny for the entirety of the game, you'll be playing "minesweeper" instead of battlefield 5.

    Players should be mindful of mines though. Not saying they should run aimlessly around but with 32 opposing enemies and more than half of them have planted an AP mine, there's gotta be some balance to that. This is not a specific class issue.

    They affect every class. It's just a joke based on the way the typical assault player just runs around constantly rushing and being careless. It's like they have tunnel vision. Especially if they notice you're playing recon like I often do. They'll rush right at you thinking they've got the weapon advantage just for you to bait them into your mines and then they get upset about it.

    Personally, I'd rather have access to the grenade launcher or PIAT over the AP mines any day. They're a lot stronger than AP mines. I don't have to hope someone walks into them without noticing.
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