Team-balancing

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Bumstag1
60 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
DICE, your algorithm regarding team-balancing is in a dire state. Like, it couldn't get worse. How come on community servers in bf4 the team-balancing worked stunningly? How come it's extremely bad both in bf1 and in bf5? Maybe you should consider recoding it from the ground up or just abandon your dumb idea of auto-matching and rely more on community driven servers, because no matter how hard you try it, you will never ever be able to create such an experience as the one created by the community itself. The community is the one who WANTS to enjoy the game and therefore know exactly what to improve and what not to touch. We are the ones who play this game day by day, and as it was shown in previous updates, your game testing could use a LOT of improvement.

Comments

  • Bolly_GB
    47 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    +1. I'd like to see epic battles that evenly balanced teams gives you as the norm rather than by the occasional fluke. Teams should be balanced at the start of each new game based on the K/D of all the players (including Party players - being in a Party should guarantee that you all get on the same server but they should also be subject to the balancing algorithm and split across the teams if appropriate). Balancing only the PTFO players to the losing team makes no difference if the rout is due to high K/D players slaughtering the whole opposing team. It must be balanced based upon all players K/D rather than just moving the player who capped all the objectives on to the losing team as that player won't magically cap the objectives and restore the balance the next time when all their team is busy being dead.
  • dutchmasta83
    353 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Yup 100% agree. A lack of content and all the other bugs are like rusty nails compared the rot that is no team balancing. I think team should be balanced based on the factor that most contributes to victory in a specific game mode; so in conquest the people that capture the most flags or spend the most time on objective should be split up whereas in team deathmatch the people that get the most kills should be split up.
  • Key2Destiny
    95 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    There is no team balancing what so ever just so you know OP.
  • WetFishDB
    1974 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Do we actually have any information about them even trying to balance servers on ability? It may be that it’s not something they are actively doing.

    To me it looks like its purely a numerical player count balance rather than anything else. I’ve seen no mention of ‘skill’ anywhere, which was the primary ability ranking used in balancing ability in BF1 (although was limited by other design choices such as not breaking up squads, even of randoms etc).

    To be honest though, the way this game has been designed I’d expect balance to be a lot harder to achieve - it’s something I predicted during the beta gameplay. If there is no ability balance thrown in at all, then that’s all but inevitable.
  • disposalist
    8479 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    WetFishDB wrote: »
    Do we actually have any information about them even trying to balance servers on ability? It may be that it’s not something they are actively doing.

    To me it looks like its purely a numerical player count balance rather than anything else. I’ve seen no mention of ‘skill’ anywhere, which was the primary ability ranking used in balancing ability in BF1 (although was limited by other design choices such as not breaking up squads, even of randoms etc).

    To be honest though, the way this game has been designed I’d expect balance to be a lot harder to achieve - it’s something I predicted during the beta gameplay. If there is no ability balance thrown in at all, then that’s all but inevitable.
    I don't actually know. I guess I'd assumed they'd at least *try* to skill balance like they say they did in BF1 and before. They can't do it on simple things like level in BF5. Too many people hitting 50 too early.

    They aren't even getting team numbers right though. Or maybe they are and the skill balancing is deciding that one team is fine being smaller because it's so skilled? Who knows, since there's no transparency hehe.
  • WetFishDB
    1974 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    WetFishDB wrote: »
    Do we actually have any information about them even trying to balance servers on ability? It may be that it’s not something they are actively doing.

    To me it looks like its purely a numerical player count balance rather than anything else. I’ve seen no mention of ‘skill’ anywhere, which was the primary ability ranking used in balancing ability in BF1 (although was limited by other design choices such as not breaking up squads, even of randoms etc).

    To be honest though, the way this game has been designed I’d expect balance to be a lot harder to achieve - it’s something I predicted during the beta gameplay. If there is no ability balance thrown in at all, then that’s all but inevitable.
    I don't actually know. I guess I'd assumed they'd at least *try* to skill balance like they say they did in BF1 and before. They can't do it on simple things like level in BF5. Too many people hitting 50 too early.

    They aren't even getting team numbers right though. Or maybe they are and the skill balancing is deciding that one team is fine being smaller because it's so skilled? Who knows, since there's no transparency hehe.

    I think the numbers thing is harder to do now that when someone is joining a server via the squad menu then they have to wait until there is space in that team. In the past they’d have joined the server first, then had to join the squad etc.
  • FragbaitDax
    198 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited March 6
    This is my number one issue with the game right now. Glitches, bugs, sure they're annoying but you can still play the game. Team stomping is just such a major issue these days that it is killing my enjoyment of the game. It certainly can't be helping new player retention either. There's only so many times you can get totally shredded and not even have an opportunity to learn from your mistakes before you find something else to play.

    Tonight's match ended at 0 : 300 with the enemy constantly dominating all points and keeping players locked in their spawn. Hey, kudos to the opposition for executing a dominant strategy so well. These are obviously practised players using all their advantages effectively. But how is this fun for anyone except the stat geeks who just like to gloat over their numbers? It's like beating up a kid for their lunch money.

    For experienced players I can't imagine this results in a sense of achievement either and certainly won't keep them returning to the game. When there's no risk of losing or even dying, there's no adrenaline rush, no dopamine and ultimately no lure to return.
    Post edited by FragbaitDax on
  • Ploodovic
    1642 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    […]

    Probably the most significant issue for Battlefield and they never talk about it or even acknowledge it's an issue.

    I agree with this, and I have said it many times, on this forum. If the round is unbalanced, people leave the server. If every server they join is unbalanced, they quit the game. If it’s unbalanced every time they start the game, they stop playing it altogether.

    Fix the team balance, DICE.
  • WetFishDB
    1974 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    This is my number one issue with the game right now. Glitches, bugs, sure they're annoying but you can still play the game. Team stomping is just such a major issue these days that it is killing my enjoyment of the game. It certainly can't be helping new player retention either. There's only so many times you can get totally shredded and not even have an opportunity to learn from your mistakes before you find something else to play.

    Tonight's match ended at 0 : 300 with the enemy constantly dominating all points and keeping players locked in their spawn. Hey, kudos to the opposition for executing a dominant strategy so well. These are obviously practised players using all their advantages effectively. But how is this fun for anyone except the stat **** who just like to gloat over their numbers? It's like beating up a kid for their lunch money.

    For experienced players I can't imagine this results in a sense of achievement either and certainly won't keep them returning to the game. When there's no risk of losing or even dying, there's no adrenaline rush, no dopamine and ultimately no lure to return.

    As a relatively experienced player, I don’t enjoy stomps any more than those people being stomped. Unfortunately, the way the game plays out it’s almost inevitable if a strong platoon etc joins a server, or a bunch of good players happen to get into the same squad etc.
  • VincentNZ
    2582 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Well that is a pretty much unsolveable issue in these types of game. And no, community servers were not balanced either, because the correct algorithm needed for this to happen would need to be complex and work constantly.
    BFV does have teambalance probably based on an algorithm involving stats. However it happens at the time after the new map has loaded and before you can quit. So, the teambalance can not account for people that leave the game for various reasons. So if a certain value of players leave and are not filled up by sheer luck immediately with adequate replacements the round will start and stay unbalanced.
    There are other things to consider, too. So maybe you've got a top notch tanker on your team and win a round of Hamada, where he went 64-0. Next map is Fjell and he is not good at infantry, he is still valued high by the algorithm. A rather average player might have also played the round of his lifetime and will be valued high, just to return to his usual level in the next round. How do you value people that play with friends? A squad of four is a force multiplier that no algorithm can anticipate correctly. No algorithm can cope with a game that has millions of possibilities and random events happening.
    And the biggest problem is still people leaving the servers mid-round, because this means a balanced player leaves and is replaced with a wildcard that also produces downtime. People are not objective, they might have a bad round, but this might still ensure the team's win. People also claim they always get put on the losing side, but when looking up their stats they have a winrate between 48-60%, but the wins somehow never stick in their minds. DICE has done everything they can to minimize this issue, by making the game play with 64 players by default and even introducing a game-mechanic to balance rounds.
    RSP is no saviour here, all the aut-balancers did was move squads around, which just flipped the winning side, or scrambled based on an arbitrary number which is the same thing BFV does. Some did have a mid-round balancing tool, but everybody doing well wants to get switched to the losing team to achieve balance, right?
    This is the only thing in this game where it is the player's fault. If you want balanced rounds then do not leave servers, because of a bad experience. Otherwise you will be the cause of said problem, taking the place of a fellow who dropped out of the game for the same reasons you did.
  • ninjapenquinuk
    1767 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    I think it's nigh on impossible to 'fix'. There are just too many variables. The only one really in DICEs control is even numbered teams.
  • Vulgar_cowboy
    18 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    It's very frustrating. I've noticed it a lot in the few days. People seem to quit certain maps on CQ. The server was full then went to Hamada and the enemy team went to 12 players and we had 27, what a boring round it was. Is the game dying already?
  • Zenga
    164 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    It can't be completely fixed, but it sure as hell can be improved upon. For example, few nights ago I was in a 32v32 match, it was filled up all the time, but my side lost with 400 tickets difference. Why? Well to me it seemed to be a matter of both skills, but also levels. We had fifteen rank 50 players, the other side had 24. The rest of our team was players between rank 5 and 40, while the lowest rank they had was 18. Yesterday I was in a match where my side had ZERO medics, while the opposing side had 7. In a ticket-oriented game, this is a disaster from the get go.
    Not to mention that I have seen countless times where a match will start with 15v20 and then the server will fill up the side that already has more players with even more people, making the lack of balance even worse.
  • Bumstag1
    60 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Teams should constantly be balanced based on K/D ratio using statistical dispersion. 2 minutes after the game started, and then 10 minutes later once again during mid-game. Statistical dispersion eliminates the possibility of putting together a 3.2 K/D guy with 31 1.02 K/D guys. Doing the scrambling 2 minutes after the game started also gets rid of the problem where the current balancer balances the teams right on the start, with many people usually quitting right after they have the chance.
  • ninjapenquinuk
    1767 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    It's very frustrating. I've noticed it a lot in the few days. People seem to quit certain maps on CQ. The server was full then went to Hamada and the enemy team went to 12 players and we had 27, what a boring round it was. Is the game dying already?

    It may help of they had some 24/7 servers or the like. That way you may get less people leaving due to not liking a certain map.
  • SirBobdk
    3925 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    It's very frustrating. I've noticed it a lot in the few days. People seem to quit certain maps on CQ. The server was full then went to Hamada and the enemy team went to 12 players and we had 27, what a boring round it was. Is the game dying already?

    It may help of they had some 24/7 servers or the like. That way you may get less people leaving due to not liking a certain map.
    Yep why this game need rental servers. Bring back the community.
    Had one game the other day where the map started up 12 vs 10, but for some strange reason every one who joined got on the same side making it 32 vs 10.
  • grrlpurple
    793 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Not just team balancing that is screwed up... How can a 119-13 respawn victory be classed as a draw that leads to a final stand defeat. The game is unbalanced, never mind the teams!
  • Redstripe101
    2546 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    There is no team balancing what so ever just so you know OP.

    there is team balancing, at a certain point, a disadvantaged team will have cap speeds, respawn times, and ticket counters increased to allow a "come back". Given this known info, and how most features dont seem to work as intended. This could be a start, but I'm not sure if the algorithm coded in to trigger this is released info so we cannot compare intent to reality. instead its a guessing game
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