Time for a new look at TTK?

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Dr_X2345
774 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
A while back, in November/December I believe, DICE slowed down the Time To Kill in BFV, but it was soon reverted, apparently due to community feedback. However, I also see a lot of people complaining about how fast the TTK is in this game, to the extent that sometimes you just don't have any time to react to being shot before you're dead. So my question is - is it time for DICE to switch up the TTK a bit again? I personally would like them to add some servers with a slightly slower TTK - not anything really drastic, combat should still be fast-paced, but enough to make tactical movements actually useful and you don't get killed in a second when you get spotted.
I think they would have to approach this carefully though - and get feedback from the community, which is why I think adding it in separate servers would be a good idea and then getting feedback from that. Last time there were significant balancing issues (yes, I know there still are, but last time it was in terms of max damage output for certain weapon types as opposed to class balance which caused the issues) - namely the SMGs were already much weaker than any weapon class, and because it was essentially a blanket change they suffered very badly. However, I think DICE could use this as an opportunity to look at the overall weapon balance, perhaps change it up a little, and individually balance the weapon types and different damage models, so that the balance is improved with a change to TTK.
What are your thoughts? Do you think they should slow down the TTK a bit? Would it work?

Comments

  • AspectofSouls
    22 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Honestly, they could fix this problem because I know that there are lot of people who liked Battlefield 1 gameplay with slow TTK, I'm loving this faster TTK and wouldn't mind playing on Hardcore Servers in order to enjoy the TTK we have now there, even tho the hardcore servers are always less popular than the basic Conquest servers. This would definitely make players happier if they had a choice to play with slower TTK or faster TTK.
  • Trokey66
    8156 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited March 10
    On paper the TTK is fairly fast and that in and of itself isn't bad, the problem is that the "on paper" TTK is way too often the real TTK, because weapon handling in this game is a lot easier than previous games.

    So for instance, if a weapon takes .3 seconds to kill with 4 bullets, that's often times what we actually get in BFV in close to mid-range, where in other games that TTK would be extended because of increased spread and recoil. Secondly, health attrition and having players run around injured does not help the case for having such a blazing fast TTK, because it just exacerbates it.

    Honestly, this TTK is really only good for 2 types of players, campers, and the tryhards that make every game a highlight reel. It just looks cooler to be able to mow down 3-4 guys in literally 1 second while hipfiring than it does shooting one guy and him have enough time to react to your presence and retaliate by shooting you in the face.

    Good point, well presented.

    People often refer to BF4 TTK and 'on paper' they are similar but then fail to account for spread mechanics including suppression affects.

    As you say, actual TTK because of that is often a bullet or 2, maybe more, higher.

    As to attrition, I don't mind the mechanic as such but do feel it should perhaps be one or the other at times. With fast TTK, reduce/remove it or keep it and extend TTK.
  • NLBartmaN
    3032 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Like mentioned: the biggest problem with the TTK is the insane accuracy (too little recoil/spread) and 3x scopes.

    An extra "problem" with the TTK is that the servers (and maybe consoles) clearly can't handle these speeds and 30Hz servers for console is just too low with this TTK.
  • TheyHaveScissors
    561 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited March 10
    TTD and TTK should be made longer a bit.

    But nerfing the assault babyeasymode assault guns, semi-auto rifles and some MMG's in their ridiculous laser-accuracy would go a long way on top of that.
  • Pyr0Plazma
    375 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    IMHO I'd rather TTK not touched if ADAD'ing and movement in general isn't changed.
  • Dr_X2345
    774 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    TTD and TTK should be made longer a bit.

    But nerfing the assault babyeasymode assault guns, semi-auto rifles and some MMG's in their ridiculous laser-accuracy would go a long way on top of that.

    Agree with the Assault weapons - almost all of them are just slightly too good. Increasing the recoil just a little on semi-autos would go a long way IMO, as well as adding heavier damage drop and actual bullet drop at longer range so that they can't counter-snipe so effectively.
    Not sure about the MMG thing. Yes, they're powerful if used correctly, but they're also the hardest weapon type to use correctly and the least versatile. If you get caught out in the open, you just can't retaliate at all - you have to prone, which takes a second, then find the enemy, aim at them and start firing, by which point they've almost certainly killed you.
    If there was a change to the TTK, then sure, have a look at the damage output and possibly recoil of the MMGs, but in the current balance model I think they're in a decent state.
    (Also, don't get me wrong, I don't think the TTK should be slow, just slower. As someone else was saying, this game has the fastest 'actual' TTK of all recent Battlefield games due to the high level of control on most weapons, and I think slowing it down just a little would make the game generally a better experience)
  • esturias_88
    135 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Dr_X2345 wrote: »
    However, I also see a lot of people complaining about how fast the TTK is in this game, to the extent that sometimes you just don't have any time to react to being shot before you're dead. So my question is - is it time for DICE to switch up the TTK a bit again?
    Being dead in the blink of an eye does indeed suck. You don't get any chance to react and most tactical approaches to the game don't work, resulting in the mindless slaughtering we get right now. That isn't Battlefield at all.
    But the problem is quite complex. That said, the major part of the problem stems from the horrible game-/weaponbalance, so fiddling around with player HP alone won't hep.
  • DingoKillr
    3466 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    If you had a longer TTK some of the slower ROF weapons become more viable. We would see less things like 2 BTK SLR having a slower TTK then 4 BTK SA. Even 4 BTK with a slow ROF SMG might even be able to compete at short range with SA or AR.
  • spartanx169x
    694 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    One of the first things that should be done is nerf assault only. Most NOT ALL assault weapons should require an extra bullet and that would go a long way toward balance and in a lot of cases a better TTK.
  • DirtyDog1974
    306 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    I am in the Halcyon camp, the biggest problem is the lack of any sort of recoil or bullet deviation in this game. It favors the semi-auto rifles immensely over all other rifles leading to what we have seen in super accurate laser rifles in this game.
  • bran1986
    5576 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited March 10
    I think the ttk in cqb is fine the problem for me is the ttk at mid to long range is way too fast. The DMRs are a major problem as are MMGs to a lesser degree. The DMRs have no recoil, high damage, high headshot multipliers, and a crazy fast bullet velocity. You have DMRs that have bullet velocities nearly double that of bolt actions. You try to cross any kind of open ground you are dead without any chance to react or any chance to fight back. To me they need to reign in the damage of DMRs and MMGs. Then DICE needs to rebalance some weapons IE the smgs and m1907.
  • Trokey66
    8156 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    bran1986 wrote: »
    I think the ttk in cqb is fine the problem for me is the ttk at mid to long range is way too fast. The DMRs are a major problem as are MMGs to a lesser degree. The DMRs have no recoil, high damage, high headshot multipliers, and a crazy fast bullet velocity. You have DMRs that have bullet velocities nearly double that of bolt actions. You try to cross any kind of open ground you are dead without any chance to react or any chance to fight back. To me they need to reign in the damage of DMRs and MMGs. Then DICE needs to rebalanced some weapons IE the smgs and m1907.

    This is sort of where I'm coming from.
  • wiazabi
    480 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited March 10
    I don't mind if they change ttk but they have to do it right instead of that disaster they tried first time where we had low ROF weapons becoming unusable, RSC, 1906, model 8 and ZH-29 became 3 hit kill which made 0 sense and showed a total lack of testing.

    I also prefer the BF 1 route but i have no issues adapting to BF V, i do however feel they must do something to Assault semis as it currently have no downsides and accuracy stat means nothing, once you realise that magdumping is a thing since there is no penalty for shooting em at max rpm it really just feels so wrong when it was actually satisfying to learn slrs in bf 1 as unlike here they had downsides.

    Assault class is also just a mistake and its 2 classes combined to one, Assault + Demolition = Actionman.
  • Tip_the_Cap
    179 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Insta kill sucks. Get rid of it.
  • full951
    2405 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    all for shorter TTK
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