Time for a new look at TTK?

Comments

  • Woodlbrad
    561 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited March 15
    If the netcode wasnt bad the ttk wouldnt be a problem imo but its bad and you can die in 1 frame. Longer ttk just feels like bullet sponges and more frustrating its harder to wipe a group of ppl on a good flank with higher ttk.
  • sabootheshaman
    1015 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Woodlbrad wrote: »
    If the netcode wasnt bad the ttk wouldnt be a problem imo but its bad and you can die in 1 frame. Longer ttk just feels like bullet sponges and more frustrating its harder to wipe a group of ppl on a good flank with higher ttk.
    Definitely agree that once every few rounds I’ll get a 1 frame death. I does however feel like it’s always the Sten delivering that. I’d still assume it’s netcode though. I also think they possibly need to look at the semi auto recoil/damage at range. That’s from a guy who totally mains assault also. It does feel like we are still in beta. 😬
  • SirBobdk
    3929 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    @sabootheshaman wrote
    It does feel like we are still in beta.
    I would say Alpha :wink:
  • Pelliy
    2224 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    0SiGHT0 wrote: »
    Time to kill has never been a problem in this game. The real complaints are the awful netcode designed by people who don't know what they're doing, and a weapon balance system that has created guns with practically zero recoil and extremely high damage at range.

    I agree with that but ttk is still an issue but getting shot when you turn corners 2-3 seconds later is still a thing that needs to be fixed.
  • DingoKillr
    3472 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Exactly, the balancing PC and console is different. That's why we had dedicated private servers before bf1 on pc. Procon and plugins allowed to compensate this difference.
    Nothing in BF4 procon plugin would have made a difference regarding balance between console and PC.
  • disposalist
    8480 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited March 15
    DingoKillr wrote: »
    Exactly, the balancing PC and console is different. That's why we had dedicated private servers before bf1 on pc. Procon and plugins allowed to compensate this difference.
    Nothing in BF4 procon plugin would have made a difference regarding balance between console and PC.
    Except you could exclude those weapons that are clearly balanced for console and not for PC.

    And do things like add sniper rifle limits as it seems perhaps they aren't such a big problem on console.

    That kind of thing.
  • DingoKillr
    3472 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    DingoKillr wrote: »
    Exactly, the balancing PC and console is different. That's why we had dedicated private servers before bf1 on pc. Procon and plugins allowed to compensate this difference.
    Nothing in BF4 procon plugin would have made a difference regarding balance between console and PC.
    Except you could exclude those weapons that are clearly balanced for console and not for PC.

    And do things like add sniper rifle limits as it seems perhaps they aren't such a big problem on console.

    That kind of thing.
    Excluded problem weapons or limits. Is not fixing balance issue that just glossing over the flaws and that created new ones.

    Limiting DMR while allowing the M16 or AEK shows it was not about balance. I never came across a server that banned or limited any AR.
  • ael1as
    16 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    DyD6Marina wrote: »
    ael1as wrote: »
    DyD6Marina wrote: »
    You know the older Battlefield was all about defensive gameplay and teamplay.

    Like Battlefield V...

    WHAT? serious?
    BF2 defensive?
    BF2 was all about rushing fast with the best vehicles you can have, pushing flag by flag without stopping
    I remember clanwars on Karkand, conquest assault mode, lasted around 2 minutes pour side

    Snipers and prone machine gunners were totally unuseful in competitive BF2 given the fast pace of the game

    so...I really don't get your point, but thank you because you are helping this topic even if you think the opposite

    Now i'm sure you are trolling, maybe you must know first what is a defensive gameplay(if you think only sniper and prone can play defensive you are wrong), than maybe you must play bf2.

    haha man, I think you never did a serious war on BF2
    do you remember the gameplay based on bunnyhopping medics + engi rushing all around the map?
    was this defensive?
    if BF2 was defensive then BFV what is it?

    you are the clear troller here, it is clear post by post

  • disposalist
    8480 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    DingoKillr wrote: »
    DingoKillr wrote: »
    Exactly, the balancing PC and console is different. That's why we had dedicated private servers before bf1 on pc. Procon and plugins allowed to compensate this difference.
    Nothing in BF4 procon plugin would have made a difference regarding balance between console and PC.
    Except you could exclude those weapons that are clearly balanced for console and not for PC.

    And do things like add sniper rifle limits as it seems perhaps they aren't such a big problem on console.

    That kind of thing.
    Excluded problem weapons or limits. Is not fixing balance issue that just glossing over the flaws and that created new ones.

    Limiting DMR while allowing the M16 or AEK shows it was not about balance. I never came across a server that banned or limited any AR.
    Were AEKs ever as unbalanced as the assault weapons in BF5? Hmm. I don't remember.

    Either way, at least with a decent RSP you'd have a *chance* to 'fix' things.

    It wouldn't be all that's needed to fix BF5, of course, but it would help.
  • ael1as
    16 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    I want to add this to my comments.

    The people posting here asking for a slightly higher TTK are doing this beacuse they LOVE Battlefield and they believe in what DICE did in the past titles.

    We simply dare to say that the "emperor has no clothes", we are simply tring to put in a rational way what was treated in hysterical way (thanks to Youtubers..)

    One troller tried to create mess here, but the message is still clear.

    I'm happy that I have found many rationale players here thinking the same as me. This makes me think we are right.
  • disposalist
    8480 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    ael1as wrote: »
    I want to add this to my comments.

    The people posting here asking for a slightly higher TTK are doing this beacuse they LOVE Battlefield and they believe in what DICE did in the past titles.

    We simply dare to say that the "emperor has no clothes", we are simply tring to put in a rational way what was treated in hysterical way (thanks to Youtubers..)

    One troller tried to create mess here, but the message is still clear.

    I'm happy that I have found many rationale players here thinking the same as me. This makes me think we are right.
    To be fair, we aren't "right" that higher TTK is "better" any more than people who like lower TTK are "right" or "better". It's a personal preference thing.

    Having said that, I believe the lower TTK is making it harder for the netcode to cope and is contributing to the TTD issues, so in that manner, higher TTK might be objectively "better", but not really.

    Also, I believe that lower TTK makes the game more 'campy' or at least makes camping more successful especially in combination with BF5s cluttered graphics, so perhaps it could be said higher TTK would be 'better' so camping is less viable. No one likes camping, hmm?...
  • johnkapa1
    169 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    This post is so dumb :D :D

    People asking for higher TTK just suck at the game plain and simple. If you need more health to live or if you want guns to deal less damage per shot you should just go play cod or Apex or some other dumb game.
  • SirBobdk
    3929 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited March 15
    johnkapa1 wrote: »
    This post is so dumb :D :D

    People asking for higher TTK just suck at the game plain and simple. If you need more health to live or if you want guns to deal less damage per shot you should just go play cod or Apex or some other dumb game.
    It seems that the majority "suck" to use your words or just want a game which is enjoyable and not like now.
    The gameplay at the moment is terrible. Camping and playing TDM seems to be the main strategy.
    If TTK is the reason then I'm all in for a change. If there is another way I'm also in for that.

  • johnkapa1
    169 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    SirBobdk wrote: »
    johnkapa1 wrote: »
    This post is so dumb :D :D

    People asking for higher TTK just suck at the game plain and simple. If you need more health to live or if you want guns to deal less damage per shot you should just go play cod or Apex or some other dumb game.
    It seems that the majority "suck" to use your words or just want a game which is enjoyable and not like now.
    The gameplay at the moment is terrible. Camping and playing TDM seems to be the main strategy.
    If TTK is the reason then I'm all in for a change. If there is another way I'm also in for that.

    The game isnt that bad tho. Theres always going to be campers in any FPS you play and if they are good at camping either with a mmg or a sniper rifle they'll kill you if you make a dumb mistake. I dont have a trouble killing campers or avoiding the areas that have them. Obviously it also depends on the game modes you play as well. Breakthrough, front-lines, domination, some conquest maps are going to have those players. Just have to play smart use cover and play smart.
  • SirBobdk
    3929 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    johnkapa1 wrote: »
    SirBobdk wrote: »
    johnkapa1 wrote: »
    This post is so dumb :D :D

    People asking for higher TTK just suck at the game plain and simple. If you need more health to live or if you want guns to deal less damage per shot you should just go play cod or Apex or some other dumb game.
    It seems that the majority "suck" to use your words or just want a game which is enjoyable and not like now.
    The gameplay at the moment is terrible. Camping and playing TDM seems to be the main strategy.
    If TTK is the reason then I'm all in for a change. If there is another way I'm also in for that.

    The game isnt that bad tho. Theres always going to be campers in any FPS you play and if they are good at camping either with a mmg or a sniper rifle they'll kill you if you make a dumb mistake. I dont have a trouble killing campers or avoiding the areas that have them. Obviously it also depends on the game modes you play as well. Breakthrough, front-lines, domination, some conquest maps are going to have those players. Just have to play smart use cover and play smart.
    I can't remember another BF game that had so much camping and people not pto. I used to play a lot of infantry but not in BFV. I'm tired of semi snipers (3 x scopes + laserguns) and prone campers because it's easy, so I'm just flying now. But my main problem is almost all on my friend list are gone, even some I have been playing BF with for more than 12 years. They don't like the gameplay and TTK is one of the reasons but not the only one. What ever the reason is then BFV have killed my little community and made it much less enjoyable.
  • Pelliy
    2224 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    DingoKillr wrote: »
    DingoKillr wrote: »
    Exactly, the balancing PC and console is different. That's why we had dedicated private servers before bf1 on pc. Procon and plugins allowed to compensate this difference.
    Nothing in BF4 procon plugin would have made a difference regarding balance between console and PC.
    Except you could exclude those weapons that are clearly balanced for console and not for PC.

    And do things like add sniper rifle limits as it seems perhaps they aren't such a big problem on console.

    That kind of thing.
    Excluded problem weapons or limits. Is not fixing balance issue that just glossing over the flaws and that created new ones.

    Limiting DMR while allowing the M16 or AEK shows it was not about balance. I never came across a server that banned or limited any AR.
    Were AEKs ever as unbalanced as the assault weapons in BF5? Hmm. I don't remember.

    Either way, at least with a decent RSP you'd have a *chance* to 'fix' things.

    It wouldn't be all that's needed to fix BF5, of course, but it would help.

    the AEK is worse, imo. also had more range than any AR in bf5. People think bf5 tap fire is bad. I guess they forgot about bf4
  • disposalist
    8480 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Pelliy wrote: »
    DingoKillr wrote: »
    DingoKillr wrote: »
    Exactly, the balancing PC and console is different. That's why we had dedicated private servers before bf1 on pc. Procon and plugins allowed to compensate this difference.
    Nothing in BF4 procon plugin would have made a difference regarding balance between console and PC.
    Except you could exclude those weapons that are clearly balanced for console and not for PC.

    And do things like add sniper rifle limits as it seems perhaps they aren't such a big problem on console.

    That kind of thing.
    Excluded problem weapons or limits. Is not fixing balance issue that just glossing over the flaws and that created new ones.

    Limiting DMR while allowing the M16 or AEK shows it was not about balance. I never came across a server that banned or limited any AR.
    Were AEKs ever as unbalanced as the assault weapons in BF5? Hmm. I don't remember.

    Either way, at least with a decent RSP you'd have a *chance* to 'fix' things.

    It wouldn't be all that's needed to fix BF5, of course, but it would help.
    the AEK is worse, imo. also had more range than any AR in bf5. People think bf5 tap fire is bad. I guess they forgot about bf4
    Well, I do remember getting sick of getting tap-fire shot by any weapon across the map, but that was any weapon. I remember the AEK was ridiculously low TTK.

    Anyway, I think the point was it was pretty much only sniper rifles that were known to be so annoying and sniper glut such a game killer that they were restricted. Maybe the odd shotgun or XM25 ban too, but snipers were the most restricted and for good reason.
  • TheyHaveScissors
    565 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    ael1as wrote: »
    I want to add this to my comments.

    The people posting here asking for a slightly higher TTK are doing this beacuse they LOVE Battlefield and they believe in what DICE did in the past titles.

    We simply dare to say that the "emperor has no clothes", we are simply tring to put in a rational way what was treated in hysterical way (thanks to Youtubers..)

    One troller tried to create mess here, but the message is still clear.

    I'm happy that I have found many rationale players here thinking the same as me. This makes me think we are right.

    I wonder how divided DICE is between the current, ultra-fast TTK with the supereasymode weapons (remember: little to no recoil, no sway) and the other, more tactical slower TTK that doesnt give as much frustration and opens up more possibilities for the player to survive and not-camp.
  • Dr_X2345
    774 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Woodlbrad wrote: »
    If the netcode wasnt bad the ttk wouldnt be a problem imo but its bad and you can die in 1 frame. Longer ttk just feels like bullet sponges and more frustrating its harder to wipe a group of ppl on a good flank with higher ttk.

    Netcode obviously causes some issues, but I think the super fast TTK (in practice it is literally the highest of all recent battlefield games, possibly ever) plus the generally very easy to control weapons, ankles the game often frustrating.
    Don't get me wrong - I'm not asking for a slow TTK so to speak (I'm the OP btw), just a slightly slower one but taking into account different damage models, and looking at weapon balance on at least a damage model basis if not individual. So not like BF1 in that you could take quite a few shots before going down, but not like this where often you literally don't get a chance to react between the first shot landing and you dying. Perhaps increasing the recoil pattern on certain weapon types, and limiting the use of 3x scopes could solve the issue to some extent, and that is IMO a needed change as well, but unless they do that we won't know.
  • MarxistDictator
    4845 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Pelliy wrote: »
    DingoKillr wrote: »
    DingoKillr wrote: »
    Exactly, the balancing PC and console is different. That's why we had dedicated private servers before bf1 on pc. Procon and plugins allowed to compensate this difference.
    Nothing in BF4 procon plugin would have made a difference regarding balance between console and PC.
    Except you could exclude those weapons that are clearly balanced for console and not for PC.

    And do things like add sniper rifle limits as it seems perhaps they aren't such a big problem on console.

    That kind of thing.
    Excluded problem weapons or limits. Is not fixing balance issue that just glossing over the flaws and that created new ones.

    Limiting DMR while allowing the M16 or AEK shows it was not about balance. I never came across a server that banned or limited any AR.
    Were AEKs ever as unbalanced as the assault weapons in BF5? Hmm. I don't remember.

    Either way, at least with a decent RSP you'd have a *chance* to 'fix' things.

    It wouldn't be all that's needed to fix BF5, of course, but it would help.

    the AEK is worse, imo. also had more range than any AR in bf5. People think bf5 tap fire is bad. I guess they forgot about bf4

    The difference being spread decease was balanced to make no one gun have an advantage over distance in BF4. Also, the recoil mechanics didn't play directly into tap firing either.
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