Tanks in Firestorm are useless - Please improve or remove

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WinterWarhurst
1319 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
Battlefield is famous for integrated infantry and vehicle gameplay. While I am glad that we don't have a Car Royale like H1Z1, the vehicles feel far from Firestorm meta.

I recognise that tanks need to be balanced, and should not guarantee a win, however currently it feels they are overbalanced. Let me explain.

Problems
Bunkers
  • ˜60 second animation to open bunker with sirens
  • Vehicles are not fully fuelled
  • Spare ammo is scarce
  • I secured a Churchill Crocodile in the quarry pit, no spare fuel nearby, by the time I'd made it out, I had ran out of fuel

Tanks
  • Separating driver and turret seats leads to indirect nerfs on your squad, meaning fewer people are available for a firefight, despite the fact the tank in itself is arguably less powerful than a single infantry player. Furthermore on console if you are the sole operator in solo or squads, you have to cycle through the bow gunner and top gunner seats to return to the driver seat. It is clumsy and heavily nerfs the tank operator's capabilities to the point that a tank is worth less than even a mediocre equipped infantry player.
  • No self-repair is fine, however when people can carry 6 panzerfausts, AT/ Sticky grenades, AT grenade pistols & AT mines, this is problematic
  • Splash damage feels reduced, I noticed this especially with the Pz. IV with KwK 40 which should do 112 within 1.3m
  • Scarcity of ammunition is excessive, especially given the limited availability of resupplies
  • Fuel is seldom found, but other times found in huge quantities; lacks consistency
  • Separating light and heavy ammunition leads to the same issues as above
  • Third person view is another nerf, which compounds other balancing issues, despite being ok in theory.
  • If you die, you die, as such other squad members don't want to be in your vehicle, and why would they?

Anti-Tank capabilities
  • A panzerfaust is doing 33 damage to the turrets, side & rear of the light tanks, and decent damage to medium tanks, meaning after taking two hits in a light tank, or one more in a medium you have to bail... When people. typically carry 6, this is problematic.
  • Anti-tank equipment is far more abundant than fuel or vehicle ammunition, in fact it feels more abundant than even body armour, especially late game.

All in all, while we cannot allow the meta to be dominated by tanks, they seem to be out of place in this game mode. They should either be improved or removed. Currently they are far more frustrating than rewarding.

I speak from experience, I am one of the top tank players in BFV, yet even I find it far easier to win games as an infantry player, in fact I do not even bother with tanks, despite them being my most played and successful class by a mile in multiplayer play.

Comments

  • Woodlbrad
    558 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    I agree launchers are so common and a player can hold 6 at a time using a tank seems pointless.
  • WinterWarhurst
    1319 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Woodlbrad wrote: »
    I agree launchers are so common and a player can hold 6 at a time using a tank seems pointless.

    I think this is one of the biggest problems, it’s very rare that we are ill equipped to deal with a tank, and even in those cases, we aren’t scared of tanks because they are so weak offensively.
  • HardAimedKid
    11386 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    No just no, tanks are fine if a squad plays it right and I’ve already seen it played right. If you come across someone like me I’ll be holding everything to try and stop your squad from having your tanks. But no way are there more than a handful of people who’d actually makes tanks easier to use in a BR and I guess you’re one of them lol
  • crazzeesyko
    60 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    I think tanks are almost in a good place now. The main issue with them for me is all the glitches such as:
    - It randomly bouncing
    - 3rd person aim doesn't hit where you're looking
    - Frequent AP bullets doing no damage

    Other than these sort of issues the only thing that prevents the tank doing well is the number of assault. Lots of assault you blow up instantly whereas with only a couple of assault you can annihililate the enemy. I would like to see tanks have more ammunition though.
  • WinterWarhurst
    1319 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    No just no, tanks are fine if a squad plays it right and I’ve already seen it played right. If you come across someone like me I’ll be holding everything to try and stop your squad from having your tanks. But no way are there more than a handful of people who’d actually makes tanks easier to use in a BR and I guess you’re one of them lol

    Again, I think I was very clear that tanks shouldn't be made the meta, or dominate, but I think you are arguing under false pretences if you genuinely believe they are fine. They are clearly underperforming, and closer to a meme, than meta. I have plenty of wins as an infantry player. I am infinitely more proficient as a tanker, and I haven't even come remotely close to a win in a tank.

    As I say, I am one of the most experienced and proficient tankers in BFV, and if I find it by far easier to win, or be competitive, as an infantry player, even with a mediocre load out, then that is quite self-explanatory as to the overall balance of tanks in this game.

    I'm saying either improve them or remove them, as of right now they are hated by tank lovers, and still hated by tank haters regardless.

    Neither I, nor my squad, have every been scared of a tank, in fact they have nearly always been abandoned when we come across them, or incredibly ineffective.

    I presume you don't think Firestorm is a perfect and polished product. Like all other launches it needs updates and improvements. Whether that's to the looting and inventory system, or armour system, or tanks, surely you can agree changes will occur, whether that makes them better balanced, or simply more usable and less frustrating.

    Thanks
  • Woodlbrad
    558 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Haven't seen a tank do much of anything in firestorm yet.
  • WinterWarhurst
    1319 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    I think tanks are almost in a good place now. The main issue with them for me is all the glitches such as:
    - It randomly bouncing
    - 3rd person aim doesn't hit where you're looking
    - Frequent AP bullets doing no damage

    Other than these sort of issues the only thing that prevents the tank doing well is the number of assault. Lots of assault you blow up instantly whereas with only a couple of assault you can annihililate the enemy. I would like to see tanks have more ammunition though.

    Hey, I agree tanks are in a good place in Conquest, etc. now...
    This post is strictly relating to Firestorm however where they are a lot more underpowered than in traditional multiplayer game modes.
  • WinterWarhurst
    1319 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Woodlbrad wrote: »
    Haven't seen a tank do much of anything in firestorm yet.

    Me neither, I consider myself one of the best tankers out there, albeit a mediocre infantry player. I find it BY FAR easier to win, or be competitive, as an infantry player in Firestorm than tanker... Even with a mediocre load out and armour.
  • crazzeesyko
    60 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    I think tanks are almost in a good place now. The main issue with them for me is all the glitches such as:
    - It randomly bouncing
    - 3rd person aim doesn't hit where you're looking
    - Frequent AP bullets doing no damage

    Other than these sort of issues the only thing that prevents the tank doing well is the number of assault. Lots of assault you blow up instantly whereas with only a couple of assault you can annihililate the enemy. I would like to see tanks have more ammunition though.

    Hey, I agree tanks are in a good place in Conquest, etc. now...
    This post is strictly relating to Firestorm however where they are a lot more underpowered than in traditional multiplayer game modes.

    I have never seen a tank in firestorm yet so dont actually know. I did misread the title though.
  • Masqerader
    620 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited March 28
    Tanks, armor have no reason to exist in this game mode. heals are more than enough. Also this game mode doesn't need 64 players and a wide open make, be original.

    Also how is there no knifing animation in this game, you get stuck with no gun, and your pretty much forced to quit...
  • TheSeries3
    17 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    I lost a squad game cause they had 2 tanks. I blew up one. not enough rockets for the other. tanks shouldn't be OP. everything should be equal in a BR
  • fakemon64
    898 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    TheSeries3 wrote: »
    I lost a squad game cause they had 2 tanks. I blew up one. not enough rockets for the other. tanks shouldn't be OP. everything should be equal in a BR

    But then why go through the pain of obtaining and fueling a tank if you're still just gonna be equal to those who didn't.
  • HardAimedKid
    11386 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited March 28
    No just no, tanks are fine if a squad plays it right and I’ve already seen it played right. If you come across someone like me I’ll be holding everything to try and stop your squad from having your tanks. But no way are there more than a handful of people who’d actually makes tanks easier to use in a BR and I guess you’re one of them lol

    Again, I think I was very clear that tanks shouldn't be made the meta, or dominate, but I think you are arguing under false pretences if you genuinely believe they are fine. They are clearly underperforming, and closer to a meme, than meta. I have plenty of wins as an infantry player. I am infinitely more proficient as a tanker, and I haven't even come remotely close to a win in a tank.

    As I say, I am one of the most experienced and proficient tankers in BFV, and if I find it by far easier to win, or be competitive, as an infantry player, even with a mediocre load out, then that is quite self-explanatory as to the overall balance of tanks in this game.

    I'm saying either improve them or remove them, as of right now they are hated by tank lovers, and still hated by tank haters regardless.

    Neither I, nor my squad, have every been scared of a tank, in fact they have nearly always been abandoned when we come across them, or incredibly ineffective.

    I presume you don't think Firestorm is a perfect and polished product. Like all other launches it needs updates and improvements. Whether that's to the looting and inventory system, or armour system, or tanks, surely you can agree changes will occur, whether that makes them better balanced, or simply more usable and less frustrating.

    Thanks

    Good, the tank should be support and support only. And don’t tell me it can’t support. If you have a squad trapped in a house with a tank while you have squad mates pushing them I’d say the tank more than did it’s job, just as a gun helps you do your job but you still have to use it correctly. The tanks need nothing more in my opinion because they’d just become obnoxious and kill firestorm completely.
  • WinterWarhurst
    1319 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Masqerader wrote: »
    Tanks, armor have no reason to exist in this game mode. heals are more than enough. Also this game mode doesn't need 64 players and a wide open make, be original.

    Also how is there no knifing animation in this game, you get stuck with no gun, and your pretty much forced to quit...

    Unless they improve my vote currently is to remove tanks altogether. Armour system needs a serious overhaul too. In fact it feels like an infantry player with full armour has more HP than a tank hahaha!
  • WinterWarhurst
    1319 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    TheSeries3 wrote: »
    I lost a squad game cause they had 2 tanks. I blew up one. not enough rockets for the other. tanks shouldn't be OP. everything should be equal in a BR


    I'm not arguing that they should be OP, I think I clearly stated they shouldn't even be meta, yet alone OP. However I feel like you're asking to be able to solo two tanks? Either way, with 6 panzerfausts, AT mines, sticky dynamite, AT grenades & sticky grenades, plus V-1 and artillery barrage combo, a single soldier is quite capable of soloing several tanks.
  • WinterWarhurst
    1319 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited March 28
    No just no, tanks are fine if a squad plays it right and I’ve already seen it played right. If you come across someone like me I’ll be holding everything to try and stop your squad from having your tanks. But no way are there more than a handful of people who’d actually makes tanks easier to use in a BR and I guess you’re one of them lol

    Again, I think I was very clear that tanks shouldn't be made the meta, or dominate, but I think you are arguing under false pretences if you genuinely believe they are fine. They are clearly underperforming, and closer to a meme, than meta. I have plenty of wins as an infantry player. I am infinitely more proficient as a tanker, and I haven't even come remotely close to a win in a tank.

    As I say, I am one of the most experienced and proficient tankers in BFV, and if I find it by far easier to win, or be competitive, as an infantry player, even with a mediocre load out, then that is quite self-explanatory as to the overall balance of tanks in this game.

    I'm saying either improve them or remove them, as of right now they are hated by tank lovers, and still hated by tank haters regardless.

    Neither I, nor my squad, have every been scared of a tank, in fact they have nearly always been abandoned when we come across them, or incredibly ineffective.

    I presume you don't think Firestorm is a perfect and polished product. Like all other launches it needs updates and improvements. Whether that's to the looting and inventory system, or armour system, or tanks, surely you can agree changes will occur, whether that makes them better balanced, or simply more usable and less frustrating.

    Thanks

    Good, the tank should be support and support only. And don’t tell me it can’t support. If you have a squad trapped in a house with a tank while you have squad mates pushing them I’d say the tank more than did it’s job, just as a gun helps you do your job but you still have to use it correctly. The tanks need nothing more in my opinion because they’d just become obnoxious and kill firestorm completely.

    Again, I feel you keep presupposing that I'm asking for tanks to be overpowered. I didn't even ask for them to be the meta, yet alone overpowered, so I don't understand why you conclude that if they are perfectly balanced and need 'nothing' more or they'd become 'obnoxious' and 'kill firestorm completely'.

    I very clearly stated that I'm not asking for tanks to be that way, I'm simply saying that for competitive and proficient tankers they are clearly incapable of supporting a squad properly, in fact most infantry squads I run with get angry with me for taking a tank because it gives away our position, requires an additional driver to be remotely effective, which takes them out of the ground force, etc. and means I will be unrevivable and a liability.

    My point is that they're not even sufficiently balanced to provide proper support.

    I am saying that they should either be removed or improved... If your vote is removed rather than improved, then I respect that, because it is entirely within the scope of my argument, and in fact we agree more than disagree, I feel we are misunderstanding one another.

    EDIT: The house example is a poor one, because in those scenarios my experience so far has been people spamming panzerfausts at you from windows, cover, broken corners of building, hide and peeking, etc. In fact a tank is completely unequipped to perform the task you asked... If anything it makes my point clearer than your own. In fact I have had to bail from a tank most times in this kind of scenario from taking too much damage, and having too many points of protected attack. Repositioning is a pain because I have to (in most tanks) cycle through the top turret seat to get back into the driver seat.
  • WinterWarhurst
    1319 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    fakemon64 wrote: »
    TheSeries3 wrote: »
    I lost a squad game cause they had 2 tanks. I blew up one. not enough rockets for the other. tanks shouldn't be OP. everything should be equal in a BR

    But then why go through the pain of obtaining and fueling a tank if you're still just gonna be equal to those who didn't.

    I mean this is the thing, I'm not even asking for equality, I'm not even asking for tanks to be the meta, simply to have them viable methods for winning the game, but people still even object to that.

    I'm saying that top tankers find it harder to win in tanks or vehicles than on foot, despite being mediocre infantry players. That to me is crazy, what's the point of including them in the game if they're this pathetic!
  • PackersDK
    687 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    What I don’t get is what tanks are doing in Firestorm solo games. Squads, maybe. But in solo games?!?
  • MBT_Layzan
    1395 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    The day they start all this BS in CQ is the day I leave tanking without question.
  • WinterWarhurst
    1319 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    PackersDK wrote: »
    What I don’t get is what tanks are doing in Firestorm solo games. Squads, maybe. But in solo games?!?

    I know right, well anyway they are pretty useless in squad games, so if you ask me they should just remove them, I don't really know what they were thinking tbh.
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