Planes ruin the game

fragnstein

MatthewSkeet wrote: »

My solution to fjel and planes .. don't play conquest simple as that

How about breakthrough harmada? Another map ruined by planes

xHonest_Abe

Pyr0Plazma said:

PrecisionWing said:

fragnstein wrote: »

Especially on maps like fjell. Aa is pretty much useless on a bomber so they just come right at you. Not to mention the plane just flys so low where the window to do any dmg is small. All you can do is hope your team has someone capable to deal with them, but then it's just the same problem for the other team then.

It's a plane based map, and if you can always jump in a fighter to shoot those bomber down, it's not hard at all.

"It's a plane based map" There's no such thing. A plane based map is air superiority where everyone has a plane. 

Last time there was an airplane based map was Battlefield 3. Only one map but it was not good. You had all of these jets circling each other trying to shoot the enemy down. The map was not very big. There were no tanks or other vehicles on the ground. So once your were shot down or on the ground, there was nothing to do but to die and respawn. Even worse, you had to wait for the next available jet to spawn. After awhile, the map was so unpopular in America, you had to go to the Europe server to find one full. Only one or two gaming clans sponsor it because it was an award requirement. I have read in the past on the forum "we need a flying map" . One round on that map would convinced them that is a bad idea.

Hawxxeye

fragnstein said:

MatthewSkeet wrote: »

My solution to fjel and planes .. don't play conquest simple as that

How about breakthrough harmada? Another map ruined by planes

planes balance out the tank camping pros in such cases.

VincentNZ

I can really understand the underlying issue, though I have to agree that planes are an integral part of the Battlefield franchise. Still planes in this game are frustrating to play against, or, more accurately, alongside.

The main issues include the vehicle spawn system, where eleven people on Fjell can basically spawn a bomber and make ground a living hell, or eleven fighters are spawned and you might never know they are there. When you get a bunch of skilled pilots on one side, the choice of vehicle is becoming meaningless.

The second issue is the AA capabilities, which is a limiting factor, and needs to be. Right now, there is no personal AA, that you can use, so the only options are SAA and MAA, which again have limitations in spawn, destructibility, geography and therefore effectiveness.

The third is that you are always outnumbered and have to dedicate yourself 100% to AA, and will not do anything else.

The fourth problem is map design, you simply can not avoid planes, when they are available, hard cover is a myth in BFV. Every structure needs to be destructible, and the actual amount of hard cover is miniscule, while cover from above is non-existant.

That combined makes planes frustratingly unavoidable and hard to counter, while the planes themselves have little to nothing to fear and rather easy to use. The help planes get for destroying ground targets is ridiculous compared to what infantry gets for fighting air assets. Bombing sights, 4k bombs and the likes. Complaining about spotting or indirect fire gadgets and defending the easy plane mechanics is a paradox.

Hawxxeye

VincentNZ said:

I can really understand the underlying issue, though I have to agree that planes are an integral part of the Battlefield franchise. Still planes in this game are frustrating to play against, or, more accurately, alongside.

The main issues include the vehicle spawn system, where eleven people on Fjell can basically spawn a bomber and make ground a living hell, or eleven fighters are spawned and you might never know they are there. When you get a bunch of skilled pilots on one side, the choice of vehicle is becoming meaningless.

The second issue is the AA capabilities, which is a limiting factor, and needs to be. Right now, there is no personal AA, that you can use, so the only options are SAA and MAA, which again have limitations in spawn, destructibility, geography and therefore effectiveness.

The third is that you are always outnumbered and have to dedicate yourself 100% to AA, and will not do anything else.

The fourth problem is map design, you simply can not avoid planes, when they are available, hard cover is a myth in BFV. Every structure needs to be destructible, and the actual amount of hard cover is miniscule, while cover from above is non-existant.

That combined makes planes frustratingly unavoidable and hard to counter, while the planes themselves have little to nothing to fear and rather easy to use. The help planes get for destroying ground targets is ridiculous compared to what infantry gets for fighting air assets. Bombing sights, 4k bombs and the likes. Complaining about spotting or indirect fire gadgets and defending the easy plane mechanics is a paradox.

You underestimate how disruptive even a single SAA can be while you are preoccupied with anything else.

Most of the annoying plane cases are mainly due to only about one person actively trying to do something against them.

This is what I have decided based on experiences with or against planes

fragnstein

Hawxxeye wrote: »

VincentNZ said:
I can really understand the underlying issue, though I have to agree that planes are an integral part of the Battlefield franchise. Still planes in this game are frustrating to play against, or, more accurately, alongside.The main issues include the vehicle spawn system, where eleven people on Fjell can basically spawn a bomber and make ground a living hell, or eleven fighters are spawned and you might never know they are there. When you get a bunch of skilled pilots on one side, the choice of vehicle is becoming meaningless.The second issue is the AA capabilities, which is a limiting factor, and needs to be. Right now, there is no personal AA, that you can use, so the only options are SAA and MAA, which again have limitations in spawn, destructibility, geography and therefore effectiveness.The third is that you are always outnumbered and have to dedicate yourself 100% to AA, and will not do anything else.The fourth problem is map design, you simply can not avoid planes, when they are available, hard cover is a myth in BFV. Every structure needs to be destructible, and the actual amount of hard cover is miniscule, while cover from above is non-existant.That combined makes planes frustratingly unavoidable and hard to counter, while the planes themselves have little to nothing to fear and rather easy to use. The help planes get for destroying ground targets is ridiculous compared to what infantry gets for fighting air assets. Bombing sights, 4k bombs and the likes. Complaining about spotting or indirect fire gadgets and defending the easy plane mechanics is a paradox.



You underestimate how disruptive even a single SAA can be while you are preoccupied with anything else.Most of the annoying plane cases are mainly due to only about one person actively trying to do something against them.This is what I have decided based on experiences with or against planes

My experience against planes is that AA is useless. All it does is say "hey I'm over here! Steer your plane towards me and drive straight at me" as the AA pummel's the pilots face that I can see just before die

VincentNZ

Hawxxeye said:

VincentNZ said:

I can really understand the underlying issue, though I have to agree that planes are an integral part of the Battlefield franchise. Still planes in this game are frustrating to play against, or, more accurately, alongside.

The main issues include the vehicle spawn system, where eleven people on Fjell can basically spawn a bomber and make ground a living hell, or eleven fighters are spawned and you might never know they are there. When you get a bunch of skilled pilots on one side, the choice of vehicle is becoming meaningless.

The second issue is the AA capabilities, which is a limiting factor, and needs to be. Right now, there is no personal AA, that you can use, so the only options are SAA and MAA, which again have limitations in spawn, destructibility, geography and therefore effectiveness.

The third is that you are always outnumbered and have to dedicate yourself 100% to AA, and will not do anything else.

The fourth problem is map design, you simply can not avoid planes, when they are available, hard cover is a myth in BFV. Every structure needs to be destructible, and the actual amount of hard cover is miniscule, while cover from above is non-existant.

That combined makes planes frustratingly unavoidable and hard to counter, while the planes themselves have little to nothing to fear and rather easy to use. The help planes get for destroying ground targets is ridiculous compared to what infantry gets for fighting air assets. Bombing sights, 4k bombs and the likes. Complaining about spotting or indirect fire gadgets and defending the easy plane mechanics is a paradox.

You underestimate how disruptive even a single SAA can be while you are preoccupied with anything else.

Most of the annoying plane cases are mainly due to only about one person actively trying to do something against them.

This is what I have decided based on experiences with or against planes

Yes I see that and I acknowledge that. I manned the SAA on Fjell a couple of days ago on D, and shot down 3 planes in the first 5 minutes. Nothing beyond that, though, since the planes just avoided the area and could easily do so, or only passing my arc of fire briefly. Or flying really high so my DPS was limited. At that time I was barely a nuisance hitting them for 25 damage or so, which is alright, but it was all I did. AA is a full-time job, while they can just go somewhere else and be effective, the AA guy is stationary in the safest spot, with limited visibility, slow turning and medium combat effectiveness.

I had another Fjell round a couple of days ago, where we pushed the enemy team back to A and nothing changed their, but their three Spitfires killed infantry as they liked, since they simply took out the dangerous SAAs and were nigh untouchable for the rest of the round. MAybe 20 kills etween all three of them, yet I got killed three times, with no chance of fighting back. And that is the map where SAAs have it the easiest, because they come in large abundance and some (like D) have a decent effective reach on a map so small.

Now on the bigger maps you will have better visibility, and maybe longer exposure times, yet the planes will simply not fly over you, why should they? They are fighting ground targets at contested flags, where no SAA can ever be manned. And if they were, you have no radar using them, might have stuff blocking your view, are exposed and at risk, it turns slowly and DICE's animation fetish also includes a 2 second lockdown when entering. You can not use it reactively because of that, but can not use it pro-actively either.

What is missing in this game is a gadget like the Fliegerfaust, which the Assault can deploy like the PIAT. A direct tool to tell the plane that it is unwise to come any nearer. Or they could simply put some actual cover onto the maps, so that planes can be avoided. As of now map design is a barren field with destructible houses for cover, nothing that works from above.

Martijack9

no they don’t i love ruining tanks with one 4000lb bomb it’s a **** beast

oXGeminiXo

I think after playing fjell on different gamemodes I prefer conquest. Yeah it is heavy on planes but that makes it dynamic. Other modes become a camp fest that resembles the american Revolution and becomes boring.

Hindenburg1911

if you dont want play with playnes play squad gameplay or only infantry maps or tdm or destroying objekts

RantingTheRant

Don't people know that SAA's in conquest mode can be rebuild by supports?

Squad_Cohesion

Does it matter though? A good bomber pilot smirks at SAA's, just another free kill indicator. SAA needs to do a tad more damage against bombers. That can self-repair too fast btw.

IDirtY_SeCreT

Better title: DICE ruins the game

TheyHaveScissors said:

Does it matter though? A good bomber pilot smirks at SAA's, just another free kill indicator. SAA needs to do a tad more damage against bombers. That can self-repair too fast btw.

Go back to the BF4 system with no quick repair? At least planes wont have 130 % health anymore.

Hindenburg1911

play tdm and you dont have any plane.... this is battlefield guy if you dont like it go play back to cod kid fun

tempo_rarity

I just read "there's no personal AA" , exactly 48 hours after doing 42 damage to a low-flying fighter with the Boys in Hamada .
I keep reading that the SAA's "don't work" and yet every time I hop into that seat , I become the main target of Bombers and strafers . . I wonder why? 

NLBartmaN

Balance between planes and planes and infantry is terrible.

Fighters need their bombs removed and do less damage to bombers, AA needs to do more damage to fighters, to bombers it is okay, Allies bombers need to do more damage to infantry again.

SirBobdk

NLBartmaN said:

Balance between planes and planes and infantry is terrible.

Fighters need their bombs removed and do less damage to bombers, AA needs to do more damage to fighters, to bombers it is okay, Allies bombers need to do more damage to infantry again.

Its hard do balance. Fighters right now are to strong, but if they get nerfed to much it could end up with only bombers in the air, because no one will use fighters. And that is worse imo

xKusagamix

Hindenburg1911 said:

play tdm and you dont have any plane.... this is battlefield guy if you dont like it go play back to cod kid fun

The difference between having Planes in Battlefield and having planes that totally broken are huge. It's like having the Trench Fighter Plane and Heavy Bomber Strategic loadout pre-nerf in BF1, how fun was that?

InS_Hypno

Fjell is just **** 

Even if you remove planes you end up with the people climbing out of bounds to flank

DJTN1

Your main goal in BFV is not to die, (if you want to win) . Playing carefully and wisely you can stay alive but you'll find that you're often running back to the resupply station for ammo and health. On Fjell, the planes just keep dumping bombs on all the resupply stations, racking up kills. It's annoying!

I don't have anything against pilots or planes but if your going to force attrition on us at least give us a safe, covered place to resupply.

What I wouldn't give for a rocket launcher with target acquisition 😉.