Planes ruin the game

Comments

  • OP_Glitchmobile
    870 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    fragnstein wrote: »
    Especially on maps like fjell. Aa is pretty much useless on a bomber so they just come right at you. Not to mention the plane just flys so low where the window to do any dmg is small. All you can do is hope your team has someone capable to deal with them, but then it's just the same problem for the other team then.

    It's a plane based map, and if you can always jump in a fighter to shoot those bomber down, it's not hard at all.
    "It's a plane based map" There's no such thing. A plane based map is air superiority where everyone has a plane. 
    Wrong...just wrong.
  • VincentNZ
    2578 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    trip1ex said:
    VincentNZ said:
    trip1ex said:
    VincentNZ said:
    trip1ex said:
    some people get their panties in a twist too much over dying from a plane like they don't die otherwise.  lol.

    simple math says a pilot going 50-0 only kills every enemy player an average of  1 1/2 times per round.  that's not many deaths per player from a plane and 50-0 rounds don't grow on trees at least they didn't in BF1.  They  happened but not constantly.

    Meanwhile the average player  gets killed  by tanks and snipers and nades and bush wookies and shadowlords 10-20x more often.  But hey blame the planes for ruining the game.  


    This would hold true if everyone went 50-0 in this game. You get killed a lot more by the individual pilot that gets 50 kills than you get killed by the MMG prone guy going 17-8, which is an above average killcount. If we hypothetically look at the highest K/Ds per round chances are pretty high the pilots will be up there. Further the planes absolutely grow on trees, Fjell has 11 for example, which means one in six guys is in a plane and it is an immense force multiplier.
    They work solo at 100% efficiency, they have can simply outmaneuver any counter, infantry can not counter them, MAA only can deny a certain area and not available at all times and areas, SAA range and damage is sub-par, while all these counters are under the constant threat from everyone else on the field.
    Planes only have to worry about the other planes, while they can inflict heavy damage on the ground and herein lies the problem. If there is no real counter, fine, then you should not be able to do a lot of damage on the ground, simple as that.
    That didn't make any sense.  :)



     I guess you mean the 50-0 part? Well let me try again. If player X goes 50-0 and we assume that all kills are done with the same probability then he will kill each player 1-2 times in a round. If infantry player Y goes 50-0 and we assume the same parameters he will also have killed everyone 1-2 times, regardless of the playstyle or if that is annoying to some. However, I would argue that a good pilot will with more ease reach 50-0 while it is infinitely harder to do so as infantry, especially with the mentioned playstyles. So the good MMG user, might have, in the same round 32-12 or something similar, which means, he will have only killed every enemy once per round.
    Added to that is that the plane has less chance of being destroyed, because there often is no counter available, while the MMG user can be countered by 32 players. That is why you will die more relatively speaking to good pilots, than to good infantry or tankers.
    There is that one guy that I keep running into, ibusbybear that is always in a plane, namely the Spitfire and he will regularly go 20-50:1-3, and that means, without hating on him, that he will be the reason why games are plain ruined, similar as when Stodeh joins.
    No I mean your entire post has no meaning in relation to my post.  

    The gist of what I said is a player gets killed way way more often by tanks and infantry way than by planes.

    And then you respond to me arguing a pilot can more easily get a great result (50-0) than a soldier on the ground.  

    Do you see the discrepancy here?  :)





    Yeah in an absolute sense, this is true, relatively speaking not. I was kind of explaining both points. I see your point in any case, but as of now, planes are just a personal force multiplier, like say in Star Wars everybody fights for Endor and one guy happens to spawn in the Death Star. Similar to a killstreak reward without having done kills before. And that is how they are used. Herein lies the issue, they are to good at everything while nothing is really good against them.
  • EMPRR
    10 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    People! That's the beauty of Battlefield now a day! People that can't fly planes complain about planes being OP, so planes get nerfed. Planes complain AA are too OP, so AA gets nerfed. Everything in this game gets nerfed because of newbies at Battlefield (players that didn't play Battlefield before Bad Company 2) can't accept the fact that bombs, AA's, explosions, weapons, etc kill you. So they just ask to nerf everything except the weapons they are using themselves.

    I recommend the Battlefield newbies to go play Battlefield 1942, Vietnam, 2, 2142 and see what Battlefield was like and what it should be like again. Accept the fact that bombers can kill you with a bomb 3 meters away from you instead of a direct hit. It's war, war isn't fair or balanced. 

    Stop complaining and stop nerfing, instead start buffing.
  • von_Campenstein
    6565 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    Maps would do well with a coneshaped skybox where planes get largely added room to play, putting their refill stations at the outer edges to pull planes out from the center and encourage more air on air action with a longer flight distance to engage ground forces.
  • xKusagamix
    897 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited June 25
    EMPRR wrote: »
    People! That's the beauty of Battlefield now a day! People that can't fly planes complain about planes being OP, so planes get nerfed. Planes complain AA are too OP, so AA gets nerfed. Everything in this game gets nerfed because of newbies at Battlefield (players that didn't play Battlefield before Bad Company 2) can't accept the fact that bombs, AA's, explosions, weapons, etc kill you. So they just ask to nerf everything except the weapons they are using themselves.

    I recommend the Battlefield newbies to go play Battlefield 1942, Vietnam, 2, 2142 and see what Battlefield was like and what it should be like again. Accept the fact that bombers can kill you with a bomb 3 meters away from you instead of a direct hit. It's war, war isn't fair or balanced. 

    Stop complaining and stop nerfing, instead start buffing.
    This problem is not a game breaker to me but Planes in the previous game were far more balance against ground vehicle/infantry than BFV. Flying a plane ever since BF3 was dumb down so much, at least in BF2 it's much harder to even fly the Plane.
    And it doesn't need the so called "Battlefield 1942 Veteran" to realize that Vehicle balancing and Vehicle asymmetrical in BFV is absolutely garbage when Tank is much harder to use and Plane is much easier to fly with less threat to deal with.

    While the Axis has better MAA and Bomber (to kill infantry), the Allies has the ridiculous OP fighter plane that will wreck everything in its path and the Mosquito plane with powerful main canon and a 4000lbs bomb that can destroy a full health Tiger tank in one pass (they can even destroy multiple Axis Tanks in one pass before the nerf).

    How fun is that when your Tank just slowly get pass the spawn base and got totally destroy in seconds without any meaningful counter?
  • Hawxxeye
    5178 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    okiie_918 said:
    Hawxxeye wrote: »
    VincentNZ said:
    One big issue is the truce that we often have in the sky. When it is so much easier and so more rewarding to just farm people on the ground that have no counter, why would any plane engage in dogfighting? It is counterproductive and we saw it a lot in BF1 as well as in BFV.


    Because dogfights are unfun and do little to help the people bellow. It is less likely that you will clear the enemy tanks if you also have to worry about the grudge you have accumulated by the enemy pilots

    Again hawxeye I disagree lol! What about spotting in the planes? Has no benefits for infantry if the entire team is spotted up? Also me and my wingman take all the tanks out really fast if we want to. It's really easy to kill takes one pass. 2 good pilots will have the entire team spotted 80% of the time! Balance in the fighters is the problem because the German side has spotting capability in the fighters and the Brits don't you have to use a bomber variant. Really unfair when you have 4 really good pilots Fighting cause you don't wanna pull a bomber! If there was competitive play planes would have a huge role. Saying to me planes aren't helping infantry is crazy talk!
    I consider plane spotting broken if I cannot see most spotted people as a pilot. You know what I am talking about.
    As far as I know only one fighter has a spotting camera and it is the G6, the plane that like the VB people do not use. The other cameras are on bombers
  • SmokeD_BabooN
    447 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Hawxxeye said:
    okiie_918 said:
    Hawxxeye wrote: »
    VincentNZ said:
    One big issue is the truce that we often have in the sky. When it is so much easier and so more rewarding to just farm people on the ground that have no counter, why would any plane engage in dogfighting? It is counterproductive and we saw it a lot in BF1 as well as in BFV.


    Because dogfights are unfun and do little to help the people bellow. It is less likely that you will clear the enemy tanks if you also have to worry about the grudge you have accumulated by the enemy pilots

    Again hawxeye I disagree lol! What about spotting in the planes? Has no benefits for infantry if the entire team is spotted up? Also me and my wingman take all the tanks out really fast if we want to. It's really easy to kill takes one pass. 2 good pilots will have the entire team spotted 80% of the time! Balance in the fighters is the problem because the German side has spotting capability in the fighters and the Brits don't you have to use a bomber variant. Really unfair when you have 4 really good pilots Fighting cause you don't wanna pull a bomber! If there was competitive play planes would have a huge role. Saying to me planes aren't helping infantry is crazy talk!
    I consider plane spotting broken if I cannot see most spotted people as a pilot. You know what I am talking about.
    As far as I know only one fighter has a spotting camera and it is the G6, the plane that like the VB people do not use. The other cameras are on bombers
    Spotting camera is useless on fighters. If your team has no aerial threat maybe. Considering i play alone, and have no wingman, that's a sci fi novel for me. The best air ground help are flares which both factions have. Speaking of which, I won yesterday on Fjell by 41 tickets, going 18-0 kd in SPIT VA. 3/4 of the map was under heavy fog. But i kept flared C and we won. Cleared skies of enemy planes, being the only one in fighter in my team. Was atrocious but somehow had a battlefield sense to me.
  • Hawxxeye
    5178 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited June 25
    Hawxxeye said:
    okiie_918 said:
    Hawxxeye wrote: »
    VincentNZ said:
    One big issue is the truce that we often have in the sky. When it is so much easier and so more rewarding to just farm people on the ground that have no counter, why would any plane engage in dogfighting? It is counterproductive and we saw it a lot in BF1 as well as in BFV.


    Because dogfights are unfun and do little to help the people bellow. It is less likely that you will clear the enemy tanks if you also have to worry about the grudge you have accumulated by the enemy pilots

    Again hawxeye I disagree lol! What about spotting in the planes? Has no benefits for infantry if the entire team is spotted up? Also me and my wingman take all the tanks out really fast if we want to. It's really easy to kill takes one pass. 2 good pilots will have the entire team spotted 80% of the time! Balance in the fighters is the problem because the German side has spotting capability in the fighters and the Brits don't you have to use a bomber variant. Really unfair when you have 4 really good pilots Fighting cause you don't wanna pull a bomber! If there was competitive play planes would have a huge role. Saying to me planes aren't helping infantry is crazy talk!
    I consider plane spotting broken if I cannot see most spotted people as a pilot. You know what I am talking about.
    As far as I know only one fighter has a spotting camera and it is the G6, the plane that like the VB people do not use. The other cameras are on bombers
    Spotting camera is useless on fighters. If your team has no aerial threat maybe. Considering i play alone, and have no wingman, that's a sci fi novel for me. The best air ground help are flares which both factions have. Speaking of which, I won yesterday on Fjell by 41 tickets, going 18-0 kd in SPIT VA. 3/4 of the map was under heavy fog. But i kept flared C and we won. Cleared skies of enemy planes, being the only one in fighter in my team. Was atrocious but somehow had a battlefield sense to me.
    @SmokeD_BabooN
     have they changed the flare of the planes? I think it used to just land on the ground and have like 1 meter radius. I once killed someone with it and that is all about it.
    Post edited by Hawxxeye on
  • SmokeD_BabooN
    447 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Hawxxeye said:
    Hawxxeye said:
    okiie_918 said:
    Hawxxeye wrote: »
    VincentNZ said:
    One big issue is the truce that we often have in the sky. When it is so much easier and so more rewarding to just farm people on the ground that have no counter, why would any plane engage in dogfighting? It is counterproductive and we saw it a lot in BF1 as well as in BFV.


    Because dogfights are unfun and do little to help the people bellow. It is less likely that you will clear the enemy tanks if you also have to worry about the grudge you have accumulated by the enemy pilots

    Again hawxeye I disagree lol! What about spotting in the planes? Has no benefits for infantry if the entire team is spotted up? Also me and my wingman take all the tanks out really fast if we want to. It's really easy to kill takes one pass. 2 good pilots will have the entire team spotted 80% of the time! Balance in the fighters is the problem because the German side has spotting capability in the fighters and the Brits don't you have to use a bomber variant. Really unfair when you have 4 really good pilots Fighting cause you don't wanna pull a bomber! If there was competitive play planes would have a huge role. Saying to me planes aren't helping infantry is crazy talk!
    I consider plane spotting broken if I cannot see most spotted people as a pilot. You know what I am talking about.
    As far as I know only one fighter has a spotting camera and it is the G6, the plane that like the VB people do not use. The other cameras are on bombers
    Spotting camera is useless on fighters. If your team has no aerial threat maybe. Considering i play alone, and have no wingman, that's a sci fi novel for me. The best air ground help are flares which both factions have. Speaking of which, I won yesterday on Fjell by 41 tickets, going 18-0 kd in SPIT VA. 3/4 of the map was under heavy fog. But i kept flared C and we won. Cleared skies of enemy planes, being the only one in fighter in my team. Was atrocious but somehow had a battlefield sense to me.
    have they changed the flare of the planes? I think it used to just land on the ground and have like 1 meter radius. I once killed someone with it and that is all about it.
    I ve bought the game recently so I cant compare to how it was. But in my experience as a tonker and pilot they have the same behaviour as the flare gun but bigger radius(2combined). By behaviour i mean, you have to launch them up in the air to deploy properly-max radius. If you launch them strafing ground then yes they will have a minimal radius, if you launch them under obstacles, yes they will have a minimum radius like when you drop them under twisted steel bridge from plane or if you have panzer IV, UNDER BRIDGE, they hit obstacles and radius is minimal.
    So if you pop up them in the mid air they cover a large area. If not, or if they wont have time to deploy properly, then they are useless. My gripe with flares is that they wont allow you to strafe back for a successful run after first dive. But it is enough for ground troops to highlight threats in that area. Usually it is enough for me.
  • okiie_918
    128 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    G-2 has the camera and spotting shows you where they're on the minimap and can spot before a strafe and it benefits you. Flares only spot for a second and is deployed behind you not helping you at all on a strafe.
  • spychodelics
    206 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    It sounds so easy to farm kills with a bomber. 
  • Hawxxeye
    5178 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    It sounds so easy to farm kills with a bomber. 
    only if you know where the enemies are at with an error of a couple of meters.
    Otherwise an action man will get more total kills from the ground than a bomber.
  • VincentNZ
    2578 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Hawxxeye said:
    It sounds so easy to farm kills with a bomber. 
    only if you know where the enemies are at with an error of a couple of meters.
    Otherwise an action man will get more total kills from the ground than a bomber.

    You can get into them at the start of the round, bomb the gimme flag of the enemy, get 4 kills and jump out, redeploy or try to get some more. That is easy and convenient and all in all great value.
  • Hawxxeye
    5178 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited June 25
    VincentNZ said:
    Hawxxeye said:
    It sounds so easy to farm kills with a bomber. 
    only if you know where the enemies are at with an error of a couple of meters.
    Otherwise an action man will get more total kills from the ground than a bomber.

    You can get into them at the start of the round, bomb the gimme flag of the enemy, get 4 kills and jump out, redeploy or try to get some more. That is easy and convenient and all in all great value.
    It is not fun enough if you cannot see what you are trying to kill.
    The enemies look like ants in a black floor
    Post edited by Hawxxeye on
  • OP_Glitchmobile
    870 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Planes and those who use them don't ruin the game, DICE and EA got that covered.
  • spychodelics
    206 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Hawxxeye said:
    It sounds so easy to farm kills with a bomber. 
    only if you know where the enemies are at with an error of a couple of meters.
    Otherwise an action man will get more total kills from the ground than a bomber.
    I meant that with a big portion of sarcasm, most of the ground players think its soooooo easy to make kills, if no one spots, you can only assume where the enemys are, you see a flag going down fast, you fligh towards it and bomb it. Sometimes you get lucky, most times you dont. 


  • StormSaxon
    553 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    So. Found that AA guns are actually pretty good at killing planes once you learn to pace you shots.

    Been absolutely wrecking them... really annoying the crap out of them. Bombers are easiest. Best bit is when they get all upset and coming flying strait at me, then my buddy in a plane finishes them off.

    If the timing is right you can die, respawn in AA tank, annoy them again, then by the time they kill you (usually quicker than a stationary) but a new stationary has respawned.

    It’s becoming a new pass time for me now. Smashing planes.
  • Hawxxeye
    5178 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited June 26
    So. Found that AA guns are actually pretty good at killing planes once you learn to pace you shots.

    Been absolutely wrecking them... really annoying the crap out of them. Bombers are easiest. Best bit is when they get all upset and coming flying strait at me, then my buddy in a plane finishes them off.

    If the timing is right you can die, respawn in AA tank, annoy them again, then by the time they kill you (usually quicker than a stationary) but a new stationary has respawned.

    It’s becoming a new pass time for me now. Smashing planes.
    cool, but please do not do it from the red zone >_<
    People who spend more than 30 sec in a red zone need to take 200% more damage form all sources unless they got no captured bases at all
  • VincentNZ
    2578 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Hawxxeye said:
    VincentNZ said:
    Hawxxeye said:
    It sounds so easy to farm kills with a bomber. 
    only if you know where the enemies are at with an error of a couple of meters.
    Otherwise an action man will get more total kills from the ground than a bomber.

    You can get into them at the start of the round, bomb the gimme flag of the enemy, get 4 kills and jump out, redeploy or try to get some more. That is easy and convenient and all in all great value.
    It is not fun enough if you cannot see what you are trying to kill.
    The enemies look like ants in a black floor

    To stay in that metaphor: If they are ants, imagine how easy it is to crush them with your feet.
  • trip1ex
    4648 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    VincentNZ said:
    trip1ex said:
    VincentNZ said:
    trip1ex said:
    VincentNZ said:
    trip1ex said:
    some people get their panties in a twist too much over dying from a plane like they don't die otherwise.  lol.

    simple math says a pilot going 50-0 only kills every enemy player an average of  1 1/2 times per round.  that's not many deaths per player from a plane and 50-0 rounds don't grow on trees at least they didn't in BF1.  They  happened but not constantly.

    Meanwhile the average player  gets killed  by tanks and snipers and nades and bush wookies and shadowlords 10-20x more often.  But hey blame the planes for ruining the game.  


    This would hold true if everyone went 50-0 in this game. You get killed a lot more by the individual pilot that gets 50 kills than you get killed by the MMG prone guy going 17-8, which is an above average killcount. If we hypothetically look at the highest K/Ds per round chances are pretty high the pilots will be up there. Further the planes absolutely grow on trees, Fjell has 11 for example, which means one in six guys is in a plane and it is an immense force multiplier.
    They work solo at 100% efficiency, they have can simply outmaneuver any counter, infantry can not counter them, MAA only can deny a certain area and not available at all times and areas, SAA range and damage is sub-par, while all these counters are under the constant threat from everyone else on the field.
    Planes only have to worry about the other planes, while they can inflict heavy damage on the ground and herein lies the problem. If there is no real counter, fine, then you should not be able to do a lot of damage on the ground, simple as that.
    That didn't make any sense.  :)



     I guess you mean the 50-0 part? Well let me try again. If player X goes 50-0 and we assume that all kills are done with the same probability then he will kill each player 1-2 times in a round. If infantry player Y goes 50-0 and we assume the same parameters he will also have killed everyone 1-2 times, regardless of the playstyle or if that is annoying to some. However, I would argue that a good pilot will with more ease reach 50-0 while it is infinitely harder to do so as infantry, especially with the mentioned playstyles. So the good MMG user, might have, in the same round 32-12 or something similar, which means, he will have only killed every enemy once per round.
    Added to that is that the plane has less chance of being destroyed, because there often is no counter available, while the MMG user can be countered by 32 players. That is why you will die more relatively speaking to good pilots, than to good infantry or tankers.
    There is that one guy that I keep running into, ibusbybear that is always in a plane, namely the Spitfire and he will regularly go 20-50:1-3, and that means, without hating on him, that he will be the reason why games are plain ruined, similar as when Stodeh joins.
    No I mean your entire post has no meaning in relation to my post.  

    The gist of what I said is a player gets killed way way more often by tanks and infantry way than by planes.

    And then you respond to me arguing a pilot can more easily get a great result (50-0) than a soldier on the ground.  

    Do you see the discrepancy here?  :)





    Yeah in an absolute sense, this is true, relatively speaking not. I was kind of explaining both points. I see your point in any case, but as of now, planes are just a personal force multiplier, like say in Star Wars everybody fights for Endor and one guy happens to spawn in the Death Star. Similar to a killstreak reward without having done kills before. And that is how they are used. Herein lies the issue, they are to good at everything while nothing is really good against them.
    IT's called a strawman.  

    And as for your strawman argument...what you say just comes across as sour grapes because  planes are even more of a nonfactor in BFV.   They can't see anyone on the ground like they could in past games because of the lack of spotting.  You can routinely play 4 rounds with planes and not be killed by a plane.  Meanwhile infantry is a personal force multiplier.  The guys at the top boards routinely are infantry with high kdr.  I see plenty of infantry going 40-6ish on a regular basis.  BFV made the 6kdr guy in BF1 into a ~7-8 kdr guy in BFV.  

    And planes are counters to other planes.  AA is a counter.  MObile AA is a counter.  Moveable AA is a counter.   Everyone's main gun can damage planes.  And I always see highlights of players shooting planes out of the sky with a Panzerfaust etc.  

    If you really think a plane is such a personal force multiplier then you would be in one.  But of course that's not the case.  They are not easy street.  Because of all the counter sabove and the fact you need some skill to do well with planes.  And some coordination with teammates.  You need the other side to not pay attention to you when you're in the air.  


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