Weekly Debrief

BFV is a campy, try hard, insta death bore.

Comments

  • Dank_Jeezus
    97 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    @Dank_Jeezus Insta death, as you call it, is not boring to me. It's more realistic (yes, yes, I know this isn't a milsim, but a little bit of realism is good). I'm not the kind of person who gets upset when I die, and I die a lot. If I run around a corner and get sprayed down, that's my fault, not the fault of the guy waiting for me. I much prefer dying quickly, and killing quickly. I hate games where you have to empty 30 bullets into a guy before he drops, that's just stupid.
    You don't need to spend 5 minutes looking for people in bushes. how about let other people run ahead of you and pay attention when they drop, and assess where the threat is? Then go flank those "campers" and take them out?


    I think I play relatively like you’re suggesting, but the reality is I don’t have competent squad mates to help me when 1% of my friends barely play the game including me.


    At this point in bf1’s life my non-gamer coworkers were playing alongside my old COD buddies.

    Locked squads, no communication, less teamwork than bf1 imho.

    It works if you have a squad, and when you do it just becomes steam rolling lobbies.
  • Dank_Jeezus
    97 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Dank_Jeezus said:


    parkingbrake wrote: »
    filthmcnasty said:

    I like how it is, the best softcore mode yet. You have to pat more attention to your surroundings and use the right equipment. I play Breakthrough and Ops, Outpost atm, and I can't even count how many times I've seen teams lose because they refuse to use smoke when traversing open terrain ideal for sniping, not using enough medics, too many snipers when attacking, and timidness when capping an objective.



    Few people use their heads. BF5 has a learning curve but it's no worse than most other games. CoD is about knowing the maps, Fortnite is luck/tactics for surviving, BF is knowing the classes.



    If you think this is bad, play R6:Siege, The Last of Us, World of Tanks, etc.



    BF5 is not hard

    Well said.  I saw a post on Reddit where someone complaining about the game being "campy" etc. actually said that he realized he could adapt to BFV by altering his play style to take into account the folks hiding in dark corners etc., he just refuses to do so.  Okay, I guess he's at least being honest about it.  But it still amazes me that someone playing a new game which works differently from older games would think it makes more sense to be stubborn than to figure out how to play under the new conditions.  What happens when someone like that tries PUBG, does he refuse to take into account things like no spotting, no respawning, needing to find weapons and ammo?  I didn't have to go looking for weapons and ammo in Battlefield, so I'm not going to do that now--bang, dead.  You have to laugh at some of these opinions.



    A lot of us don’t like it but aren’t indifferent. Hell, i play a lot of games with gunplay similar to bf5.



    My “argument” is this game is live service, casual in nature (really it is, come on...) and for ages was a game my hardcore buddies could play with my weekend warrior buddies.



    Me not liking the game for being hardcore-lite is just my opinion. But it’s ever more apparent that most players don’t want that. Especially the silent majority of players who dice has admitted we’re leaving in droves.



    It’s too late now, but let’s be honest. You guys are the minority here and are the minority in almost every fps I’ve played, from halo CE to BF1.



    Dice making the game play like this was a huge mistake for all sorts of reasons.





    I hope you don’t take this as a personal attack. I don’t think I’m wrong here though.




    In response I'd have to ask how PUBG, a game thoroughly "hardcore" from top to bottom, has sold over fifty million copies if players who like a more hardcore game are in the minority?  That's got to be more than every BF title put together.  It seems to me that if a game is as entertaining as PUBG can be--and no game I've ever played got my heart pounding and my hands sweating like PUBG--then players will put up with challenging shooting mechanics and fast TTD and no respawning and no spotting and so on.  I have to wonder, if BFV has been more bug-free, and had new maps and other content arriving at the same rate as say BF4, and the lame cosmetics and other distractions were not there, would be there so many players as unhappy with "hardcore-lite" as you think there are?  My guess is if the game had been more polished and we had twenty maps--and the network performance wasn't such a fiasco--we wouldn't be hearing many of these complaints.

    BTW, I appreciate your civility. 


    I agree that yeah, its possible to make the game hardcore lite and fun. But the pacing in pubg and bf are soo different it’s hard for me to make a fair comparison even just armchairing it.
  • Kattegat_Twin
    760 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member



    So I take it you wouldn't mind getting rid of repair for vehicles seeming how you don't mind a little bit of realism.
    Well, the self repair from inside is a bit much, maybe. I think tankers should have to rely on Supports a bit more. But then, most people wouldn't bother repairing anyway, so it's a no-win situation really.
  • Dank_Jeezus
    97 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Mr_I3urzum said:





    So I take it you wouldn't mind getting rid of repair for vehicles seeming how you don't mind a little bit of realism.


    Well, the self repair from inside is a bit much, maybe. I think tankers should have to rely on Supports a bit more. But then, most people wouldn't bother repairing anyway, so it's a no-win situation really.

    I think he’s replying to the wrong person.


    It’s just an opinion, but I want the game to be more fun and streamlined. It can still even be hardcore.


    What I hate about bfv is how frustrating the game is to play even sans bugs/glitches
  • StormSaxon
    660 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Tactical? There were no tactics in Fort de Vaux... bipods in every corridor, grenade spamming, snipers camping near the French spawn, shot gun guys and smgs camping in corners. Map was a campfest every game.

    Achi Baba was the same, but with mortars.

    Amiens was fun, but every map snipers and bipods set up in the same place.

    Argonne was the worst as like metro you knew exactly where the enemy would go and every choke point was camped by three martini henries, some bipod 1917s, and some shot gun mook hiding in every bunker oh and mortars. No tactics at all. Camp or Zerg... through the limited channels..

    I’ve played all of them since BFBC2. Only hardline had maps with any kind of unique layout... aimed primarily at driving cars around.

    All bf maps otherwise are wide and open vehicle maps.
    Urban maps...
    or some hybrid of the two.

    Urban maps ALWAYS have had people camping to cover doorways and corridors, snipers and bipods in windows and covering streets.

    The wide open maps have always had snipers camping on the flanks or any available high point, and bipod mgs setting up in any available cover... usually covering objectives. BFV is no different.

    The TTK and TTD are wildly different. But then BF4 had this problem, afaicr until I quit and moved to hardline which was some 15-18 months.



  • BaronVonGoon
    6779 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited June 22
    StormSaxon wrote: »
    Tactical? There were no tactics in Fort de Vaux... bipods in every corridor, grenade spamming, snipers camping near the French spawn, shot gun guys and smgs camping in corners. Map was a campfest every game.


    I'm talking map design, you're talking nade spam. Totally unrelated.

    Alot of BF3, BF4 and to a certain extent BF1 maps were designed in a way that reduced the element of randomness. You could position yourself correctly and profit. In BFV you can position yourself correctly and still get taken out by an mmg or sniper in prone under some leaves in the distance who occupies one pixel in your screen and is near impossible to spot.

    The map design encourages and rewards camping. I don't think anyone has come out and put forth a logical counterpoint to this fact.

    It's not the guns, it's not the ttk. It's the map design . The guns and ttk are secondary reasons for the camping epidemic.
  • GrizzGolf
    990 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    The weapons just never felt balanced enough
  • StormSaxon
    660 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    In BF4 you can camp correctly?
    In BFV people camp incorrectly?
    What?

    If nade spam is possible the map is designed badly.

    In BFV I see mmgs set up in pretty much the the same places they always set up in. In windows, doorways, rubble piles, bushes.. And getting profit. Occasionally you see a rookie set up in an odd place but he’s head shot pretty much immediately.

    Same with snipers. I see the same types of sniper behavior... common since BF3... one type takes the fastest firing two-three hit gun it has. Others take their scopes and head to the highest vantage point and spawn beacon themselves... or the hills and mountains... some snipe from spawn. Every game. BF4 and BF1 was really bad for catering to snipers with horrifically designed maps.
  • JUJAMAKILL
    331 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    For heavens sake people, you are blowing this out of proportion. I know you would like to find a compelling reason as to why people camp, so that you might some how change or prevent it in the future. But you can't. It's not the weapons, it's not the assignments, it's not the map design, it's not the TTK/TTD, it's not even K/D related. I will let you in on a little secret...

    It's the PLAYERS.....

    There has not been a FPS in all of FPS HISTORY that has not had someone camping in it, somehow. Whether it's cowering in the corner of a building watching a doorway, or lying prone on a hillside in the distance. The problem is that a large proportion of players are prone to camping as a preferred strategy or playstyle. Furthermore, it is their right to play THEIR game however they wish. Get over yourselves.

    Campers gunna camp. 

    You ain't ever gunna change it, so quit complaining about it and learn to deal with it.


  • tempo_rarity
    1057 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
      :tongue: 'Suddenly', in BFV . . . 
    Assault goes out to find Tanks to kill and finds they can kill Tanks way too easily .
    Tanks then start to hang back further and further because they die way too easily .
    Assault goes out to find Tanks to kill but simply cannot find any in range anymore .
    Assault says "Well , I still have this scoped faux-SR 'laser'", drops prone , and  . . .
    The vast profit from this makes them forget that silly 'Once Were Tank Killers' spiel .
    . . and a 'camping' problem is 'suddenly' born . . . :wink:  
  • misisipiRivrRat
    822 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    For heavens sake people, you are blowing this out of proportion. I know you would like to find a compelling reason as to why people camp, so that you might some how change or prevent it in the future. But you can't. It's not the weapons, it's not the assignments, it's not the map design, it's not the TTK/TTD, it's not even K/D related. I will let you in on a little secret...

    It's the PLAYERS.....

    There has not been a FPS in all of FPS HISTORY that has not had someone camping in it, somehow. Whether it's cowering in the corner of a building watching a doorway, or lying prone on a hillside in the distance. The problem is that a large proportion of players are prone to camping as a preferred strategy or playstyle. Furthermore, it is their right to play THEIR game however they wish. Get over yourselves.

    Campers gunna camp. 

    You ain't ever gunna change it, so quit complaining about it and learn to deal with it.


    I agree campers gonna camp, but in past battlefield's I did't have issues identifying the campers. And they didnt need a dorito over their head to see them. 

  • BFB-LeCharybdis
    819 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    In BF4 you can camp correctly?
    In BFV people camp incorrectly?
    What?

    If nade spam is possible the map is designed badly.

    In BFV I see mmgs set up in pretty much the the same places they always set up in. In windows, doorways, rubble piles, bushes.. And getting profit. Occasionally you see a rookie set up in an odd place but he’s head shot pretty much immediately.

    Same with snipers. I see the same types of sniper behavior... common since BF3... one type takes the fastest firing two-three hit gun it has. Others take their scopes and head to the highest vantage point and spawn beacon themselves... or the hills and mountains... some snipe from spawn. Every game. BF4 and BF1 was really bad for catering to snipers with horrifically designed maps.
    Nade spam was possible because it was like hurling mini nukes in BF1 combined with gas, fire, mortars, Arty, Muromet etc. It was an over abundance rather than map design. 

    Your absolutely correct that every game has campers, but Baron is right in that the maps reward camping far more than in BF1 or 4. 

    But it's also not just purely the maps, rather the maps further heighten the design flaws inherent to V.

    Consider how open and wide the vast majority of maps in V are. With destructibility the few areas of cover (on the maps that even have cover) are soon levelled. Combine this with guns that are very easy to use and have little damage drop off over distance.

    Now add in 3x scopes on the majority of weapons allowing gun fights to take place across the open expanse, without need to push up the map and engage enemies for kills.

    Combine with poor visibility (on standard console with normal TV it is atrocious) and V is a more movement based, who sees who kills instantly sort of game. 
    I know games like R6 and CoD have similar accuracy and even lower TTK. But from the little experience I've had with them, their maps are far smaller with lots of cover and map segmentation to compensate, V doesn't have this.

    The TTD bug predominantly active in most games further this as many players are reacting to the insta-death by simply not moving.

    It's not any one of these things alone that is making V unpopular, rather they all exist within the same game and are actively working against each other.

    While you may think all BF titles have the same level of camping, have past games earned the widely accepted term 'Pronefield', 'Camperfield' etc to the extent that V has? I'm genuinely curious.

    It's not just snipers that maps cater too, for the reason stated above every class profits from simply proning and at this magnitude the objective and squad play suffers for it.

    Better map design for me would be the most expedient way to better V. They improved PanzerStorm immensely by providing better undulating, non destructible terrain and more cover. 

    I'm a big fan of V, but I'm also aware enough to realise that the game is in decline. There has to be reasons for this so some compromises and small alterations need to be made to reengage what was once a thriving player base, whilst holding onto what makes V decent and unique.
    For me map design would be a great place to start.

  • Kattegat_Twin
    760 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member


    While you may think all BF titles have the same level of camping, have past games earned the widely accepted term 'Pronefield', 'Camperfield' etc to the extent that V has? I'm genuinely curious.


    Yes. People have always been crying about those things.
  • Pelliy
    2228 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Dank_Jeezus said:
    To the people saying “complainers call every death camping....”





    Come on, what a weak response. People are stating the game is not fun, and that players are leaving in droves. Neither of which is an untrue statement.





    I’m sure ...some are crying, but a lot of people here have made good points. Mostly to reflect on why the game is a flop, not to complain about a specific death.

    I get called a camper constantly, when that is really not my style. Even with an MMG, I will move on after a couple of kills because I know my victims are coming back for me. People cry "camper" to try and help their bruised egos. "Hey guys, I only died because that noob was camping, OK, I swear I'm actually really good and never usually die, it's just that this guy is a camping noob, who's with me?".
    Maybe it is your style and it's just cognitive dissonance. :D

    I'm joking btw
  • Pelliy
    2228 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Dank_Jeezus said:
    To the people saying “complainers call every death camping....”





    Come on, what a weak response. People are stating the game is not fun, and that players are leaving in droves. Neither of which is an untrue statement.





    I’m sure ...some are crying, but a lot of people here have made good points. Mostly to reflect on why the game is a flop, not to complain about a specific death.

    I get called a camper constantly, when that is really not my style. Even with an MMG, I will move on after a couple of kills because I know my victims are coming back for me. People cry "camper" to try and help their bruised egos. "Hey guys, I only died because that noob was camping, OK, I swear I'm actually really good and never usually die, it's just that this guy is a camping noob, who's with me?".


    Do you see the difference between those people and the people complaining about why the game isn’t fun and is tanking?


    You guys just keep giving emotional diatribes about being called a camper instead of....

    A. Letting people complain in peace.

    B. Admitting the game is boring to the majority and bleeding players

    C. Adding constructive thoughts or replies back to the people who don’t like the game.

    D. Accepting that low ttd plus visual clutter and glint-less 3x laser beams = insta death bore fest.

    E. Player movement is **** and dice doesn’t know how to fix it...

    F. Guns and classes are imbalanced

    G. KPM is down 1 globally yet I’ve never seen more 70 kill games.. aka the skill gap is huge for a casual game...

    I can go on indefinitely...


    Btw. Getting 3 kills off of a point, ducking to cover just outside the point, getting another 3, then moving again etc is the such an old and tired way of playing FPS games.

    Looking for one person on a point hiding in a bush for 5 minutes is unacceptably boring. It’s ridiculously cheesy and reminds me of the end of a fortnite match more than anything I’ve seen in battlefield.


    You brought up some good points which Saldy is going unnoticed.
  • ragnarok013
    3237 postsMember, Moderator, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Moderator
    Yes, BFV is super campy. But it's not a user issue. Go play other games like CSGO, Black Squad, BF3/BF4, Insurgency etc... You'll notice they're less campy. Campy, but less so. The reason is map design. Unlike BFV, the other games have more urban warfare in them. More complex structures, alleyways, complex buildings -- as opposed to the one or two story houses in BFV. The map design doesn't encourage players to camp, it doesn't make it particularly advantageous for them to camp. You can always anticipate where the enemy is going to be coming from and you can move in relative safety knowing that the enemy is somewhere *there*.

    But in BFV with maps being nothing but open fields with trees, small houses, dirt and rocks everywhere the anticipation factor is much less effective. It's alot more random. When you can't effectively anticipate where the enemy is, you're more likely to hunker down and keep an eye out the horizon till some poor soul gets in your field of view and you take them out, then he calls you a camper in the chat.

    It's not the players, it's the garbage map design.
    Open spaces are more conducive to camping, but the verticality of BF3/4 was a double edged sword in this regard. Recons tended to camp on tall structures, as they do in this game as well. The spawn beacon made things worse ... even if they died, they'd spawn back on their skyscraper. People camped on top of the buildings and the water tower in Flood Zone. People camped on the main skyscraper on Hainan Resort. People camped on top of the skyscrapers on Dawnbreaker. People even camped on the mountain on Dragon Pass. Sometimes it felt like half of my team or the enemy team was sitting in one spot all day, whilst putting claymores, spawn beacons and TUG-S next to their lofty position.

    Camping on tall structures wasn't even limited to objective game modes. DICE had to remove the ladders on Siege of Shanghai TDM and Zavod 311 TDM because they were being abused by Recons camping on the roof for the entire match.

    Whenever I see a tall structure, I can't help but think "There's some imbecile sitting up there", and in the vast majority of cases, there's somebody there with all of the tools for setting up the best camping spot up there. In BF4, this would include the gadgets I mentioned before, the SRR-661 with a 40x scope, bipod and range finder. Sometimes, they'll even have some tryhard secondary weapon, such as the G-18 or Serbu Shorty in BF4, or the .44 Magnum in BF3.

    Don't even get me started on the crane snipers ... I hope they never put cranes in a BF game ever again ...
    The verticality was sometimes an issue, especially in Flood Zone, but in BF3\4 we had a functional mortar that actually had distance to suppress or kill the people on a roof or even make them move. I was super happy to be able to blow up cranes in BF4 after the crane sniper epidemic in BF3.
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