weapon balance

«1345
X_Sunslayer_X
680 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
DICE i know BFV and you are having a rough relationship. i know its hard being in your shoes atm and you are taking a lot of flag for almost everything humanly possible atm.
but for the love of god the weapon-balance and thus the entire class balance in BFV is just way to much in favor of assault and support.
i mean i have entire lobbies with less then 5 medic counting both teams. sniper is not that effected by it because enough ppl mistake BF for sniper elite, but nonetheless both classes have by far the most niche weaponry and support/assault just laugh at them.
even with gadets in the equation medic is far and wide the most unpopular class. and who can blame the others.
  • most restricted gunplay
  • underwhelming gadgets beside self-healing
  • animations that make you a sitting duck
  • and almost all classes outperform the SMGs with any weapon.
0-30m as a "combat-zone" is a joke. if you really wanted the medic primarily CQC then how come both assault and support have weapons directly challenging even the best SMGs with ease if not outperforming due to better stats....
if you want it like it seems to be balance medic needs the M1906SF and the FG-43 at the very least to be added to their arsenal then we can talk.
i know you needed to cut all the corners to finish this "product" on time but FFS at least tell us you are aware of the problem.

Comments

  • LINKERBLOX
    44 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Its not the guns, the problem is in the players, people are too addicted with scout, honestly there should be a limit for scouts per team,
  • CSO7777
    1080 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Its not the guns, the problem is in the players, people are too addicted with scout, honestly there should be a limit for scouts per team,
    I think the weapons are a big part of the problem. On many maps the engagement-distances are too long for medics to really stand a chance against assault/support. Maps like Devastation is fine but most other maps have too many areas where medics loose most gun-fights because their weapons are just too weak.

    In BF1 the smgs were so powerful up close that assault-players (who had the smgs) could always shine when it came to cqc. I know Dice goes for realism regarding the weapons (not really), but the smgs firerate and recoil are not better than assault/support-weapons, and assault/support has much longer range with their weapons as well. The smg's are not the strongest weapons at any distances (some are good at cqc, but only a few).

    Medics should at least have had the shotguns as an option (shotguns could be all-class weapons instead).
  • ragnarok013
    2915 postsMember, Moderator, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Moderator
    VOLBANKER said:
    I’ve been thinking why we bother starting and taking part in discussions on this forum. Nobody’s listening. On Reddit at least there is a theoretical chance that DRUNKZZ3 or some other developer reads ones post.

    VOLBANKER that's not true at all. We send up weekly community issue and sentiment reports to Community Management and DICE.
  • DingoKillr
    3472 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    LINKERBLOX wrote: »
    Its not the guns, the problem is in the players, people are too addicted with scout, honestly there should be a limit for scouts per team,
    Troll bait.

    OP is talking about SMG and Medics yet you want to talk about limiting Scouts.

    I would agree to limits if DICE buffed Scouts so that they actually have fully functioning team gadgets(not squad only) and all range 1HK to body rifles.

    After all you are limiting them just like vehicles.
  • GrizzGolf
    934 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    bran1986 said:
    VOLBANKER said:
    I’ve been thinking why we bother starting and taking part in discussions on this forum. Nobody’s listening. On Reddit at least there is a theoretical chance that DRUNKZZ3 or some other developer reads ones post.



    VOLBANKER that's not true at all. We send up weekly community issue and sentiment reports to Community Management and DICE.

    Thank you for that but without dice engaging us it doesn't feel much like a discussion is being had.

    As for the topic the problem is only going to get worse with the additions of the M2 Carbine, Breda PG and the BAR(Chauchat if it is ever added)

    The sub 600 rpm smgs are irrelevant since the dps they put out is awful in every situation. They suffer from the worst recoil patterns and horizontal recoil in the game which makes absolutely no sense for the rate of fire they have.
    Those SMGs are so useless
  • NuttysKunKs
    277 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    You have unlimited healing power as a medic. That’s why the SMG’s are allocated to them. What other class would get the smgs?

    So for lack of firepower you have unlimited healing.

    So in a 50m firefight you can take 500hp+ But stay alive by healing. The other classes have a max of 200hp.

    So your mistake is trying to kill them in one engagement.

    Your aim at that distance should be just to hit them and grind their health down while you cover and heal. That’s how it’s meant to be played.

    Of course you can try and bring them in closer to a more effective range.

    Medics are fine since they patched in that unlimited healing. If it was a case of BF1 where you have to throw pouches on the ground and run over them then that wouldn’t work. But this is different, it works. You’ve just got to adapt your play style.
  • VincentNZ
    2590 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    I have not seen the issue since release and likely never will. The Medic class is fine as is, the self-heal is incredibly powerful and the SMGs are very good in the ranges of 0-30m, which is also the most relevant engagement range since BC2. Of course you will be outperformed by SARs and ARs at 30m and beyond, basically when you have to go ADS. Hipfire is crazily strong and relevant and SMGs do it best. The only things I would like changed are mere details:
    - A Nerf to the hipfire specs of SARs
    - A buff to general SMG hipfire while nerfing the hipfire specs or giving two hipfire specs to ALL SMGs
    - Removal of the spread to recoil conversion, while also buffing spread and a removal or tweaking of the recoil patterns of SMGs (all automatics at that)
    - Smoke grenades for all kits and can be resupplied via support crates
    .
    All other frustration with the medic class is down to attrition and very poor map design.
  • X_Sunslayer_X
    680 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    You have unlimited healing power as a medic. That’s why the SMG’s are allocated to them. What other class would get the smgs?

    So for lack of firepower you have unlimited healing.

    So in a 50m firefight you can take 500hp+ But stay alive by healing. The other classes have a max of 200hp.

    So your mistake is trying to kill them in one engagement.

    Your aim at that distance should be just to hit them and grind their health down while you cover and heal. That’s how it’s meant to be played.

    Of course you can try and bring them in closer to a more effective range.

    Medics are fine since they patched in that unlimited healing. If it was a case of BF1 where you have to throw pouches on the ground and run over them then that wouldn’t work. But this is different, it works. You’ve just got to adapt your play style.

    your entire argument revolves around the point that the medic has the time to heal up.
    well lets put it that way the lightning fast TTK, the map-design, the DMG model of all ARs/LMGs/SLRs/MMGs and semi-autos will kill any medic no matter the skill way before he has time to find cover, heal-up, figure out who's shooting from where and then either engage or disengage. so what are you trying to say ?
    if your argument was to be any more then make-believe then on maps like Fjell (no tanks) or in game-modes with next to no tanks everyone with more then a brain-cell should always without a doubt pick medic since the other gadgets don't self-heal?
    well either we are playing different BFV games or i am going crazy since i never in all my 1,200 rounds played saw a medic population anywhere near what either support or assault have.

    so lets elaborate on that.
    slef-healing is strong i know that. but what good is self-healing if you die almost instantly anyway.
    • explosives negate your self-heal
    • more forgiving DMG models of all other weapons and i mean all other weapons
    • higher magnification scopes to dunk on medics trying to close the distance with impunity
    • recoil-patterns almost always giving out at least one HS since the spread kicks right to the head on almost all ARs and LMGs
    • map-design favoring stationary game-play with high DMG weapons
    • a medic class so lost in translation i am surprised DICE didn't cut it out after the BETA
    i can give you even more examples on why the core design is bad and i have yet to tap into the visibility problems and performance in general.
    i am not only asking for a weapon re-balance what I'd like to see is a complete rework of the entire class system.
    that includes reworking the self-heal as well. DICE could for example make it a charged ability with maybe a cool-down in between so you cant insta spam it all day long. but if the only saving grace of a class is one ability that is negated pretty easily your game-design is flawed at best.
    support and assault have great weapons powerful gadgets and easy accessibility to almost unlimited health. so pelase tell me what weakness do they have that comes even close to the weakness of the medic :)

  • VOLBANKER
    878 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    VOLBANKER said:
    I’ve been thinking why we bother starting and taking part in discussions on this forum. Nobody’s listening. On Reddit at least there is a theoretical chance that DRUNKZZ3 or some other developer reads ones post.

    VOLBANKER that's not true at all. We send up weekly community issue and sentiment reports to Community Management and DICE.
    I apologize! I forgot that you guys do that. I did know about it. Thanks guys.
  • Amgtree
    121 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    VOLBANKER said:
    I’ve been thinking why we bother starting and taking part in discussions on this forum. Nobody’s listening. On Reddit at least there is a theoretical chance that DRUNKZZ3 or some other developer reads ones post.

    VOLBANKER that's not true at all. We send up weekly community issue and sentiment reports to Community Management and DICE.
    lol

  • X_Sunslayer_X
    680 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    VOLBANKER said:
    I’ve been thinking why we bother starting and taking part in discussions on this forum. Nobody’s listening. On Reddit at least there is a theoretical chance that DRUNKZZ3 or some other developer reads ones post.

    VOLBANKER that's not true at all. We send up weekly community issue and sentiment reports to Community Management and DICE.

    so in over 50 weekly reports DICE never even bothered to acknowledge the abysmal weapon balance compared to every other BF game in existence?
  • NuttysKunKs
    277 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    NuttysKunKs said:
    You have unlimited healing power as a medic. That’s why the SMG’s are allocated to them. What other class would get the smgs?



    So for lack of firepower you have unlimited healing.



    So in a 50m firefight you can take 500hp+ But stay alive by healing. The other classes have a max of 200hp.



    So your mistake is trying to kill them in one engagement.



    Your aim at that distance should be just to hit them and grind their health down while you cover and heal. That’s how it’s meant to be played.



    Of course you can try and bring them in closer to a more effective range.



    Medics are fine since they patched in that unlimited healing. If it was a case of BF1 where you have to throw pouches on the ground and run over them then that wouldn’t work. But this is different, it works. You’ve just got to adapt your play style.


    your entire argument revolves around the point that the medic has the time to heal up.well lets put it that way the lightning fast TTK, the map-design, the DMG model of all ARs/LMGs/SLRs/MMGs and semi-autos will kill any medic no matter the skill way before he has time to find cover, heal-up, figure out who's shooting from where and then either engage or disengage. so what are you trying to say ?
    if your argument was to be any more then make-believe then on maps like Fjell (no tanks) or in game-modes with next to no tanks everyone with more then a brain-cell should always without a doubt pick medic since the other gadgets don't self-heal?well either we are playing different BFV games or i am going crazy since i never in all my 1,200 rounds played saw a medic population anywhere near what either support or assault have.

    so lets elaborate on that.
    slef-healing is strong i know that. but what good is self-healing if you die almost instantly anyway.explosives negate your self-healmore forgiving DMG models of all other weapons and i mean all other weaponshigher magnification scopes to dunk on medics trying to close the distance with impunityrecoil-patterns almost always giving out at least one HS since the spread kicks right to the head on almost all ARs and LMGsmap-design favoring stationary game-play with high DMG weaponsa medic class so lost in translation i am surprised DICE didn't cut it out after the BETAi can give you even more examples on why the core design is bad and i have yet to tap into the visibility problems and performance in general.i am not only asking for a weapon re-balance what I'd like to see is a complete rework of the entire class system.that includes reworking the self-heal as well. DICE could for example make it a charged ability with maybe a cool-down in between so you cant insta spam it all day long. but if the only saving grace of a class is one ability that is negated pretty easily your game-design is flawed at best.support and assault have great weapons powerful gadgets and easy accessibility to almost unlimited health. so pelase tell me what weakness do they have that comes even close to the weakness of the medic :)

    Of course there are moments where you can’t find cover. But you can increase your chances by staying by some.

    This is a team game. The medic is the most team focused class for you can heal and bring back the dead.

    You stick with your squad mates. That’s the aim of the game, they can have the fire power while you heal them and revive.

    Often you’ll find you’re outgunned in 1 vs 1 scenarios.

    If I try getting 3+kdr with medic is pretty easy.
  • CHAMMOND1992
    1037 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    VincentNZ said:
    I have not seen the issue since release and likely never will. The Medic class is fine as is, the self-heal is incredibly powerful and the SMGs are very good in the ranges of 0-30m, which is also the most relevant engagement range since BC2. Of course you will be outperformed by SARs and ARs at 30m and beyond, basically when you have to go ADS. Hipfire is crazily strong and relevant and SMGs do it best. The only things I would like changed are mere details:
    - A Nerf to the hipfire specs of SARs
    - A buff to general SMG hipfire while nerfing the hipfire specs or giving two hipfire specs to ALL SMGs
    - Removal of the spread to recoil conversion, while also buffing spread and a removal or tweaking of the recoil patterns of SMGs (all automatics at that)
    - Smoke grenades for all kits and can be resupplied via support crates
    .
    All other frustration with the medic class is down to attrition and very poor map design.
    I agree mostly, but I don't understand the hipfire buff. Hipfire on SMG's is superior without even running the specialization. In fact I don't see why anyone would run it. I think it needs a slight recoil buff and that's it. 
  • bran1986
    5599 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    In all honesty I never worry about my health when running assault or support. I'm always on a cap and there are healing stations everywhere not to mention medics tossing me health. I just feel this notion of self heals being so powerful that smgs need to be interior to all other automatics just doesn't play out in game IMO. To me the 4btk range needs to be extended to 15 meters, the 8btk range needs to go, and the stupid spread to recoil on top of awful recoil patterns needs to go. A 514 rpm smg shouldn't be this bouncy and unwieldy when ADSing.
  • ragnarok013
    2915 postsMember, Moderator, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Moderator
    bran1986 said:
    VOLBANKER said:
    I’ve been thinking why we bother starting and taking part in discussions on this forum. Nobody’s listening. On Reddit at least there is a theoretical chance that DRUNKZZ3 or some other developer reads ones post.



    VOLBANKER that's not true at all. We send up weekly community issue and sentiment reports to Community Management and DICE.

    Thank you for that but without dice engaging us it doesn't feel much like a discussion is being had.

    As for the topic the problem is only going to get worse with the additions of the M2 Carbine, Breda PG and the BAR(Chauchat if it is ever added)

    The sub 600 rpm smgs are irrelevant since the dps they put out is awful in every situation. They suffer from the worst recoil patterns and horizontal recoil in the game which makes absolutely no sense for the rate of fire they have.
    bran1986 DICE does occasionally post here, but even back in the Battlelog days DICE wasn't terribly active here on the forums; and with how DICE devs are automatically flamed by posters even when the game was going well in previous entries I can't really blame them for the low profile. If they're here or on social media like Twitter interacting with the community people angrily post "Why are you here and not fixing the game?" and if they're not here posting people ask why DICE is ignoring the community. It's generally a no win situation for them even in the best of times. One DICE dev who's a really nice guy who interacted with us a lot even left Twitter recently due to the increasing negativity on social media. We all are incredibly passionate about our hobby, and as a result of that passion we need to consciously remember to remain calm and civil when giving feedback - even when it's something that we're really fired up about as it will be received a lot better by the devs and maybe even foster a good dialog when doing so.
  • ragnarok013
    2915 postsMember, Moderator, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Moderator
    VOLBANKER said:
    I’ve been thinking why we bother starting and taking part in discussions on this forum. Nobody’s listening. On Reddit at least there is a theoretical chance that DRUNKZZ3 or some other developer reads ones post.

    VOLBANKER that's not true at all. We send up weekly community issue and sentiment reports to Community Management and DICE.

    so in over 50 weekly reports DICE never even bothered to acknowledge the abysmal weapon balance compared to every other BF game in existence?
    X_Sunslayer_X you mean apart from the frequent balancing nerfs and buffs that several weapons have received as part of several patches?
  • NuttysKunKs
    277 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    NuttysKunKs said:


    X_Sunslayer_X wrote: »
    NuttysKunKs said:

    You have unlimited healing power as a medic. That’s why the SMG’s are allocated to them. What other class would get the smgs?







    So for lack of firepower you have unlimited healing.







    So in a 50m firefight you can take 500hp+ But stay alive by healing. The other classes have a max of 200hp.







    So your mistake is trying to kill them in one engagement.







    Your aim at that distance should be just to hit them and grind their health down while you cover and heal. That’s how it’s meant to be played.







    Of course you can try and bring them in closer to a more effective range.







    Medics are fine since they patched in that unlimited healing. If it was a case of BF1 where you have to throw pouches on the ground and run over them then that wouldn’t work. But this is different, it works. You’ve just got to adapt your play style.





    your entire argument revolves around the point that the medic has the time to heal up.well lets put it that way the lightning fast TTK, the map-design, the DMG model of all ARs/LMGs/SLRs/MMGs and semi-autos will kill any medic no matter the skill way before he has time to find cover, heal-up, figure out who's shooting from where and then either engage or disengage. so what are you trying to say ?

    if your argument was to be any more then make-believe then on maps like Fjell (no tanks) or in game-modes with next to no tanks everyone with more then a brain-cell should always without a doubt pick medic since the other gadgets don't self-heal?well either we are playing different BFV games or i am going crazy since i never in all my 1,200 rounds played saw a medic population anywhere near what either support or assault have.



    so lets elaborate on that.

    slef-healing is strong i know that. but what good is self-healing if you die almost instantly anyway.explosives negate your self-healmore forgiving DMG models of all other weapons and i mean all other weaponshigher magnification scopes to dunk on medics trying to close the distance with impunityrecoil-patterns almost always giving out at least one HS since the spread kicks right to the head on almost all ARs and LMGsmap-design favoring stationary game-play with high DMG weaponsa medic class so lost in translation i am surprised DICE didn't cut it out after the BETAi can give you even more examples on why the core design is bad and i have yet to tap into the visibility problems and performance in general.i am not only asking for a weapon re-balance what I'd like to see is a complete rework of the entire class system.that includes reworking the self-heal as well. DICE could for example make it a charged ability with maybe a cool-down in between so you cant insta spam it all day long. but if the only saving grace of a class is one ability that is negated pretty easily your game-design is flawed at best.support and assault have great weapons powerful gadgets and easy accessibility to almost unlimited health. so pelase tell me what weakness do they have that comes even close to the weakness of the medic :)



    Of course there are moments where you can’t find cover. But you can increase your chances by staying by some.



    This is a team game. The medic is the most team focused class for you can heal and bring back the dead.



    You stick with your squad mates. That’s the aim of the game, they can have the fire power while you heal them and revive.



    Often you’ll find you’re outgunned in 1 vs 1 scenarios.



    If I try getting 3+kdr with medic is pretty easy.




    okay lets spin it that way.why is the medic then again treated differently from the support for example. its a team focused class as well but gets insanely good weapons and versatility. why do they not have only Shot-guns then?
    same goes for assault. it should then be also just built around destroying tanks why do they get by far the most powerful weapons?
    badly designing one class and claiming oh its supposed to be that way is a flat arguement

    You have a mini sniper with the medic class now. So you have close/mid range sorted.

    Each class in the Bf series (except 4 which shared) had its own type of weapons.

    So answer this question. Who gets the SMGs in this game? The assault? Support? Recon? It makes sense it’s the medics. Supporting his/her comrades in battle smashing folk who are close with supreme hip fire. 50 round magazines baby!

    I didn’t like how BF1 merged assault and engineer into one package. But it kinda worked. In BFV it’s so easy to get kills it’s kinda funny. But that’s one aspect of the game.

    It is supposed to be that way, it’s not an argument it’s the truth. Badly designed? Why? It’s just the way it is for this is an equal playing field. Everything you can do to your weapon I can do too. That’s where the assault class is balanced. The enemy assaults.

    Every class has changed in the BF series and there’s alway one which had the best guns. RSC was immense, 1 hit kill semi auto? Too fun. Then you had the Assault class in BF3/4. BC2 Was fun, medics with lmgs and assault with ammo.

    So this essentially is intentional. I’m not a fan either.

    If I were to change anything regarding medic class for BFV I’d increase hipfire across the board. Also less horizontal recoil, that **** is annoying.
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