Focused Feedback - Rush

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PartWelsh
50 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, EA Community Manager, Battlefield V
edited August 8
Afternoon folks - 

At the start of the month, I volunteered that I'd bring back Kenturrac (Matt - @Kenturrac) who last spoke to us in July regarding the changes that we were intending to make to Rush for Chapter 4. Since then you've all had the chance to jump in and play, and so in advance of us planning when to bring Rush back, and what to do next with it, Matt is back to talk with you about your experience playing Rush during Week 4 (and that extra weekend we tagged it on to prior to Marita)

To properly introduce you to Matt, he's a happy, bright and easygoing level designer who likes Doggos, electric skateboards, and other nice things! So logically he has designed some of the gloomiest, grittiest and most intensely murderous maps of BF1 and BFV. Who said Germans don't have a sense of humor? // Freeman



Hey!

I’m Kenturrac, the Developer behind the latest Rush changes. Last time we spoke about those in this forum post and since then, you've had 10 days of Rush during Chapter 4 to go hands on with it. Today I hope we can have a conversation on how you felt about the changes that I made! 

I have a bunch of data and ideas already, but I would like to hear from you about what was great, but especially what you felt wasn’t. I can imagine there are a few obvious hot topics like:

  • Rush should be permanent.
  • Rush should be on more maps.
  • When the teams where unevenly skilled, games went one sided for the next few matches, unrelated to which side each team was on.

On these three points above, we hear you, and we are exploring and discussing across the team what we can do to address that feedback - but I don’t have anything to share with you on those points here today.

So with the obvious points of feedback out of the way, let’s get into the details of how those Rush adjustments worked out. What was great about Rush this time around? What was bad? What would you like to see changed, or added next time? 

I will be here with you in the comments and replies below for a short while this evening, and then some more tomorrow when I'm back in the office to try to answer some of the questions or concerns that are coming up. 

Thanks!

Matt // @Kenturrac


Post edited by PartWelsh on

Comments

  • bigiain
    267 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    I liked it more this time round, especially Narvik, it felt like a proper Rush map. The mode badly needs a tutorial though, something like that old Pixel Enemy video for BC2. It feels like more than half the players have no influence on most games.
  • llPhantom_Limbll
    5378 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Honestly, I liked the original Rush more. It provided more flanking options and felt less clustered on all maps. 
  • ForbidRhyme
    121 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Definitely felt better balanced this time around. As a larger player count gametype player, will rush ever become a 32v32 gametype?

    Or even if it was to stay as 16v16, will there be a new system introduced to communicate with the other 3 squads. Maybe squad lead to squad lead chat for example? Or proximity chat? A channel to open from the commo rose? It would make this gametype way more immersive!
  • SirSpectacle
    771 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    I think the MCOM placement was better this time. The maps had better flow and we had a lot of tense matches.
  • ROV3R0023
    5 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Hello yes rush would have to be permanent and would have to cover all the maps of the game, the built fortifications and shrink the width of the maps was fine, but 75 tickets for 32 players fall short another detail the excessive amount of tanks that certain maps have in attack another detail is the ease of camping the tank near the base and the defense cannot do anything against it (another point is the unnecessary amount of bipod weapons encourage the new player to be on the ground all the time without play PTFO should remove the MMG and AT boys or make them pick up weapons as in bf4)
  • TTZ_Dipsy
    91 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Objective placement and the new map specific tweaks were spot on this iteration. Seeing you're looking into those 3 main points is great news
  • FACERAPER10
    1 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    The changes were great rush was excellent this time...but the meta of this entire game needs to be changed...Mmgs make people lay on thier belly..thats any mode in this game is is laying on your belly... hey do you know how to Battlefield V lay on your belly the entire match and just try to get kills with an MMG..other than bf5 being the belly game which Cod probably won't be so prob will end bfv.. we've all been hoping for changes but don't look like the dice will change mmg's or boys at.. even the new map Marita lay on a rock on high ground and lay on your belly..thats the strategy every map and every mode that's why people don't like this game.. but as far as what you did with Rush very good job we all had a blast playing it we want more maps and permanent
  • BFB-LeCharybdis
    790 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    It was quite decent mate. For me though the changes that need to be made aren't a part of map design or MCOM placement.

    The prone meta of V due to cluttered visuals is far too prevalent in all modes, but the MMG's are just too easy and an extremely effective option to choose in a game like Rush, in particular on the Devastation map, they make the gameplay quite tediously boring.
    Get rid of them or even better do a total redesign on them, 360 degree swivel while prone shouldn't be possible with a massive machine gun anyway.

    Some form of matchmaking would be nice at some point also.
  • ForbidRhyme
    121 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    It was quite decent mate. For me though the changes that need to be made aren't a part of map design or MCOM placement.

    The prone meta of V due to cluttered visuals is far too prevalent in all modes, but the MMG's are just too easy and an extremely effective option to choose in a game like Rush, in particular on the Devastation map, they make the gameplay quite tediously boring.
    Get rid of them or even better do a total redesign on them, 360 degree swivel while prone shouldn't be possible with a massive machine gun anyway.

    Some form of matchmaking would be nice at some point also.

    Though I don't believe that the prone and camping meta is as game breaking as some say I do believe that bipods need a redesign. The mechanic needs to be similar to BF3 and BF4. In short, the weapon was almost planted like a turret. It will help with stability while ADS but one would not have 360 degree FOV. It will make it a little less mobile and easier to flank, but still function as intended.
  • Marshennn
    310 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    I feel the biggest issue with the current version of Rush is the 'abandon sector' system introduced in BFV, which IMO is detrimental to the typical rush experience.   
    In BC2/BF3/BF4, after destroying both sets of MCOMs, the attackers had to wait ~45s before the next sector was unlocked, but the defenders also weren't forced to fall back either so they could hold a higher line of defense as long as they stayed alive. In BFV, there's a 60s timer but the next sector is unlocked as soon as the sector is cleared and the defenders usually fall all the way back to the MCOMs because that's what the game tells them.   
     
    Here's a few issues that the abandon system causes:  
      - Defenders think they're meant to fall all the way back to the MCOMs since that's how it works in Breakthrough  
      - Snipers and tanks camp outside defender playzone   
      - Inconsistent mid-sector downtimes. Take a look at this video:
     
      
      
    I like how it was in the past where the pushback was meant to be forced by the attackers by killing the defenders while the defenders could try and hold a higher line of defense which was a struggle because if you died you'd have to spawn all the way back to your HQ. If there was a camper, the defenders could flank around and take them out because they had the same play area as the attackers. Admittedly, vehicle stealing was an issue in those games but that can't be an issue in BFV because vehicles don't spawn unless they are selected by the attacking player in the deploy screen.    
    IMO Rush is at its best when attackers have to push through various layers of enemy defense and push them all the way back to the MCOMs. That struggle feels like its missing from the current rush. Currently only the second sector of Narvik comes close to that typical Rush experience and that should be used as the baseline for any future redesigns of this mode.  
     
      
    Some other changes I'd like to see:  
     
    - Add sounds to plant/defuse animations. It's too common that a player can just pop smokes and and either plant or defuse the MCOM. Here's a tip BTW. If you're a squad leader, bring up the commo rose and highlight one of the objectives. If someone's planting/defusing it, you'll see it in the commo rose.     
     
    - Reverse the devastation layout. From the 15-20 rounds that I've played on this map, it feels like the first sector is too difficult and the final sector is too easy for the attackers, which means most rounds end on the first sector. It'd be interesting to see the results if this layout was flipped and perhaps even the mall (E on Conquest) being the first sector.
  • FoxFerocity
    44 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Rush was so amazing this time!! Me and my friends fell in love with Rush again, but i was really disappointed that it doesn't get to stay longer than it did, cause you guys did one amazing job this time!
  • ProAssassin2003
    3315 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Remove Artillery Strikes make Rush 48 players and I would play it.
  • jroggs
    293 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    The biggest issue I had with Rush is the team-filling problem. It's one thing if the teams are imbalanced in terms of skill, but it's another when matches start 18v5, or don't start at all because one team has 20 and the other has 1. It was hard to get much of a read on the mode itself with most matches I played having numerically imbalanced teams.



    A big improvement over past Rush experiences was giving the attackers something like a tank, because otherwise defending is extremely easy after one failed push. There's also the much tougher-to-solve player problem where people (usually attackers) give up and start sniping. Other than restricting the use of bolt-actions and MMGs, though, there's probably not a great solution to that.

    Narvik felt okay. Twisted Steel felt great. Devastation was bad, though, that first sector is a nightmare for the attacking team and a cakewalk for the defenders, especially with invisible rubble-camping MMGs.
  • The-King-Crysis
    21 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    edited August 9
    Hi guys,

    First of all I'm sorry I'm off topic here, but the depression i felt while playing for the last 6-7 matches brought me here hopping you guys can hear me. There are countless things which bothers many of us (players) about this game, I'll name few not because I want them fixed in BFV (For me and couple of my friends we already gave up), it's because we don't want future battlefield game to make the same mistakes again:

    1) BF1 netcode was very nice, keep it, don't try to fix something which is not broken (Levelcap said it not me)
    2) Game modes, please don't include BR in next future BF game, imo it's a waste of resources, time and effort.
    3) Include basic game modes (Conquest, operations, rush, domination, TDM), why wasting time adding temporary unsuccessful game modes which no on plays?, you can come up with 1 or 2 new game modes, but not too many that the community splits further more.
    4) Maps, while we had premium we used to get 3 to 4 maps at a time, which kept us busy and happy for the new content, now you throw a new map every month which we play again and again till we are bored (I'm not saying premium was better, I'm saying do 3-4 maps at a time even if we have to wait, you used to give us a trailer for each DLC, it was enthusiastic and amazing)
    5) Bugs in game, well take your time, no one is rushing you for more content, i think the community made it clear that they want solid updates.
    6) Cheaters on Singapore servers are running freely while killing us from the end of the map or while we are in plane, this should be a priority/hotfixed.
    7) Customizing your character prevented us from differentiating between classes, either remove the customization or fix it. Besides weapon customization are very simple/unsatisfying.
    8) Daily missions still asks us to get 200 damage with newly nerfed AP mine, normal player like me spends 2-3 matches trying to layout AP mines so that the enemy step on them which is almost impossible.
    9) CPU spikes, freezes, frame drops and lag in game, something should be done about it as no matter what hardware we have it's happening to most of us.

    We as a community lost so much faith after this BF game, please think about your faithful player base, don't rush the new title, imo COD with it's new 64 player game mode will NEVER reach the glory of 64 player all out war BF game. We believe in you DICE ...

    Cheers,
    The-King-Crysis

    PS. plz change sniper headshot kill sound, it's awful, BF1 headshot sound was much better :)
    Post edited by The-King-Crysis on
  • Ryok1
    1 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Hi guys,

    First of all I'm sorry I'm off topic here, but the depression i felt while playing for the last 6-7 matches brought me here hopping you guys can hear me. There are countless things which bothers many of us (players) about this game, I'll name few not because I want them fixed in BFV (For me and couple of my friends we already gave up), it's because we don't want future battlefield game to make the same mistakes again:

    1) BF1 netcode was very nice, keep it, don't try to fix something which is not broken (Levelcap said it not me)
    2) Game modes, please don't include BR in next future BF game, imo it's a waste of resources, time and effort.
    3) Include basic game modes (Conquest, operations, rush, domination, TDM), why wasting time adding temporary unsuccessful game modes which no on plays?, you can come up with 1 or 2 new game modes, but not too many that the community splits further more.
    4) Maps, while we had premium we used to get 3 to 4 maps at a time, which kept us busy and happy for the new content, now you throw a new map every month which we play again and again till we are bored (I'm not saying premium was better, I'm saying do 3-4 maps at a time even if we have to wait, you used to give us a trailer for each DLC, it was enthusiastic and amazing)
    5) Bugs in game, well take your time, no one is rushing you for more content, i think the community made it clear that they want solid updates.
    6) Cheaters on Singapore servers are running freely while killing us from the end of the map or while we are in plane, this should be a priority/hotfixed.
    7) Customizing your character prevented us from differentiating between classes, either remove the customization or fix it. Besides weapon customization are very simple/unsatisfying.
    8) Daily missions still asks us to get 200 damage with newly nerfed AP mine, normal player like me spends 2-3 matches trying to layout AP mines so that the enemy step on them which is almost impossible.
    9) CPU spikes, freezes, frame drops and lag in game, something should be done about it as no matter what hardware we have it's happening to most of us.

    We as a community lost so much faith after this BF game, please think about your faithful player base, don't rush the new title, imo COD with it's new 64 player game mode will NEVER reach the glory of 64 player all out war BF game. We believe in you DICE ...

    Cheers,
    The-King-Crysis

    PS. plz change sniper headshot kill sound, it's awful, BF1 headshot sound was much better :)

    +1
  • VooDoO_RAW
    1 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    He has a good accurate points, i think we are all having the same issues here and nothing is getting fixed.
    All we see is a new bugged content and the old bugs still the same, and for battlefield fans it is frustrating.

    Cheers.

    The-King-Crysis said:
    Hi guys,

    First of all I'm sorry I'm off topic here, but the depression i felt while playing for the last 6-7 matches brought me here hopping you guys can hear me. There are countless things which bothers many of us (players) about this game, I'll name few not because I want them fixed in BFV (For me and couple of my friends we already gave up), it's because we don't want future battlefield game to make the same mistakes again:

    1) BF1 netcode was very nice, keep it, don't try to fix something which is not broken (Levelcap said it not me)
    2) Game modes, please don't include BR in next future BF game, imo it's a waste of resources, time and effort.
    3) Include basic game modes (Conquest, operations, rush, domination, TDM), why wasting time adding temporary unsuccessful game modes which no on plays?, you can come up with 1 or 2 new game modes, but not too many that the community splits further more.
    4) Maps, while we had premium we used to get 3 to 4 maps at a time, which kept us busy and happy for the new content, now you throw a new map every month which we play again and again till we are bored (I'm not saying premium was better, I'm saying do 3-4 maps at a time even if we have to wait, you used to give us a trailer for each DLC, it was enthusiastic and amazing)
    5) Bugs in game, well take your time, no one is rushing you for more content, i think the community made it clear that they want solid updates.
    6) Cheaters on Singapore servers are running freely while killing us from the end of the map or while we are in plane, this should be a priority/hotfixed.
    7) Customizing your character prevented us from differentiating between classes, either remove the customization or fix it. Besides weapon customization are very simple/unsatisfying.
    8) Daily missions still asks us to get 200 damage with newly nerfed AP mine, normal player like me spends 2-3 matches trying to layout AP mines so that the enemy step on them which is almost impossible.
    9) CPU spikes, freezes, frame drops and lag in game, something should be done about it as no matter what hardware we have it's happening to most of us.

    We as a community lost so much faith after this BF game, please think about your faithful player base, don't rush the new title, imo COD with it's new 64 player game mode will NEVER reach the glory of 64 player all out war BF game. We believe in you DICE ...

    Cheers,
    The-King-Crysis

    PS. plz change sniper headshot kill sound, it's awful, BF1 headshot sound was much better :)

  • LedHead_NZ
    10 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Did enjoy it a lot more this time around. I think the sector depth was a very positive change and would like to see even more of this. Makes the whole experience seem a bit more epic having a larger amount of ground to cover to reach the objectives. The depth makes Smoke from medic's to cover a push and spawn beacons for creating forward spawn/flank location more valuable. Would also like a bigger area for a teams retreat after the points have been destroyed, this create a real feeling of a shifting front line. Breakthough on Panzerstorm does this well as does bf1 operations.
    The only downside was the huge amount of MMGs on defense, really made for bad experience for the attackers getting mowed down by 5 prone guys from fortified positions. A bad team seems to run straight at them bleeding your tickets away quickly but not sure what can be done about that. 
  • GeneralXIV
    237 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    I think rush was better than last time for sure :)

    There is one change I would like to see though. Well, maybe a few. On Devastation, I think it's the third or fourth sector where an objective is placed at the entrance of what would be objective D in Conquest: in my experience playing rush, enemies will hide in the corner by the doors and behind the objective, making it impossible to see them as someone running through the door. This is especially annoying if they are using shotguns because there is very little you can do to kill them before they kill you, even when you know where they are. I've had games where the objective placement + weapons like MMGs and shotguns I think have given an unfair advantage to the defending team on Devastation. I'd say that most sectors on this map could be a little better, but the one I mentioned causes the most issues for me I think. Also the objective above the bell on the second sector. I think the first sector would be better if the ability to go upstairs in Conquest objective B was removed.
  • RudeDogg32
    2 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    First of thanks for putting Rush back in for a while - really hoping it gets put back in permanently, since it was pretty much the only game mode I have played since BC2. It was criminal that it was removed in the first place to be honest, but it looks like it may be coming back so I'm really pleased to hear that news!

    The maps & Coms placements were fine in all the Rush enabled maps, both before & after for me, but with this in mind, the most important thing in a Rush map is adequate cover & flanking opportunities. Having a tank is fine, but it should be limited. The two other things that need changing though in my opinion are:

    1) 100 tickets (at least, more is better IMO), like in BF3, 4 etc
    2) Allow ALL classes to have smoke grenades - Smoke is THE most important 'nade in Rush as attackers need the cover (although it is also useful for defenders too, when defusing)

    People who complain about defenders camping in rush, clearly don't use smoke & a good team will use it effectively to rush in & arm the objective.
    I get why Medics need smoke more for cover when reviving people, so by all means limit the Smoke Rifle to that class, but I believe that all classes should be able to equip with at least one smoke grenade (in place of other grenades of course).
    Again I was pretty amazed to find they removed smoke from the load-out of the other classes too in BF5.

    Apologies since I know it's of topic slightly, but can EA / Dice please, please, please stop forcing us to play time limited game modes. It is so annoying!
    By all means trial a new game mode & advertise it all over the main screen when the game loads, but please don't remove existing game modes in favour of it. It's not a dictatorship & we should be free to play the modes & maps we want to play.

    Other than that & a few other minor gripes that I won't go into here... it is actually a really good game & people need to get off the negative band-wagon! The gun-play is really good, the graphics are great & you guys are otherwise doing a great job!
    If these things that detract from the game-play can be ironed out (especially the forcing game modes on people & more maps added - incidentally I'd happily pay for Premium or a good DLC in favour of more frequent maps by the way!), then BF5 would not just be a great game, but an awesome one...

    So please get Senior Management to listen to your fan-base :)

  • RudeDogg32
    2 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Also sorry I couldn't resist going off topic & listed one other major gripe (if  for nothing else other than it is taken on-board for future BFs) :)

    Don't focus so much Dev time & effort on customising soldiers.
    I was more than happy with the standard uniforms of my soldiers in BC2 (& even as far back as the original BF Vietnam in 2004!).
    I know the additional money is in the micro-transactions where the 12 year old's spend their pocket money on trying to make their soldiers look cool to show off to their mates, but it just detracts from game-play.
    That Dev time & effort could be much better spent developing new maps & ironing out bugs. The additional income from the micro-transactions can come from a payable DLC or Premium instead. I for one would much rather pay another £40 for another 12-16 maps a year.

    Or take a look at the BC2 Vietnam DLC - potentially the best £15 I ever spent and the way a DLC should be - it was practically a new game with fewer maps!
    I guess partly because I'm old & nostalgic, but to me there was nothing wrong with any of the past BFs in format... until they started messing with the formula!
    BC2 Vietnam will always be my favourite though - the grittiness & effects... even down to the Hanoi Hannah's propaganda, music in tanks / Huey's was awesome - just remake that I'd be a happy man!

    But all negativity aside BFV is a great game, they just need to get back to the old formula & stop trying so hard to do new things... after all if it ain't broke.... :smiley:
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