Its better to limit snipers on each map

Comments

  • The_BERG_366
    2780 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    M_Rat13 wrote: »
    (Quote)


    Well then the problem is that sniper rifles can't go into CQC. The solution to that would be one shot body shots at close range, say up to 30m (number can change), then snipers might actually get on the point and PTFO. Also only real long range scout tool is spotting scope, everything else is either a placeable, or close range like the flare gun (which is so underrated). Simple solution to that is reduce spotting scope range, to bring players closer to the fight.

    Im all for cqb one shot body shots... don't know why they removed them in the first place. they were a thing at least since bfbc2 all the way until bfh (in bf3 only after some patch) and I can't remeber them being op. if anything it actually enabled a more offensive sniper gameplay. however 30 meters is too much as 30 meters is considered medium range and AR territory. One shot until no more than 15 meters would be perfectly sufficient.
    that will however not happen most likely as it goes against the philosophy of having classes that are very specific in terms of their effective engagement distances.
  • dandop_oq7r7ppf
    313 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Recons with a BA rifle can actually do very well in CQC
    M95 is a beast up close, plus the Revolver is arguable one of the best weapons in the game. Sure every class can use it, but Recons absolutely need to be well versed in their side arm.
    They also have throwing knives and these three weapons are a great combo for cleaning out Flags.

    I’ve single handily cleaned out the B flag on Rotterdam with the throwing knife/revolver combo, and than sniped from the windows with m95 keeping the enemy team at bay.

    I do find it frustrating that so many Recons don’t know how to be aggressive, and they think the only way to do well is to camp the spawn.

    Even I’ll throw smoke at camping Recons
  • PeaceWeaver
    210 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    The camping recon problem is particularly pronounced on this week’s Squad Conquest playlist. :s In other larger modes, having four or five camping recons isn’t always a problem. They do nothing for the team, but they also don’t necessarily cause wipes. Having more than one camping recon in Squad Conquest is a death sentence.

    Again, why aren’t these guys playing Team Deathmatch? What enjoyment do they get in losing over and over again in objective modes they don’t participate in?
  • Man_ILoveFishing
    395 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited September 2019
    I play only recon with ross 6x zoom. I play mostly objects but also sometimes i hold distance to be off close combat, but still im at least close to the flag. Anyway, it all depends of the player. Same way its annoying for me to rush with bolt action and get killed by corner proning support guy. 
  • ragnarok013
    3884 postsMember, Moderator, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Moderator
    M_Rat13 wrote: »
    (Quote)


    Well then the problem is that sniper rifles can't go into CQC. The solution to that would be one shot body shots at close range, say up to 30m (number can change), then snipers might actually get on the point and PTFO. Also only real long range scout tool is spotting scope, everything else is either a placeable, or close range like the flare gun (which is so underrated). Simple solution to that is reduce spotting scope range, to bring players closer to the fight.

    Im all for cqb one shot body shots... don't know why they removed them in the first place. they were a thing at least since bfbc2 all the way until bfh (in bf3 only after some patch) and I can't remeber them being op. if anything it actually enabled a more offensive sniper gameplay. however 30 meters is too much as 30 meters is considered medium range and AR territory. One shot until no more than 15 meters would be perfectly sufficient.
    that will however not happen most likely as it goes against the philosophy of having classes that are very specific in terms of their effective engagement distances.
    Yuk not me, I hated getting 360 no scoped by recons using a red dot at point blank in BF3. What we really need is recon to have solid CQB weapons in addition to long range only rifles.
  • Art3misJinx
    229 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Recons with a BA rifle can actually do very well in CQC
    M95 is a beast up close, plus the Revolver is arguable one of the best weapons in the game. Sure every class can use it, but Recons absolutely need to be well versed in their side arm.
    They also have throwing knives and these three weapons are a great combo for cleaning out Flags.

    I’ve single handily cleaned out the B flag on Rotterdam with the throwing knife/revolver combo, and than sniped from the windows with m95 keeping the enemy team at bay.

    I do find it frustrating that so many Recons don’t know how to be aggressive, and they think the only way to do well is to camp the spawn.

    Even I’ll throw smoke at camping Recons
    The reason why so few play aggressive recon is because it's hard. It's so easy to get punished for small mistakes if you're using pistol or a ba up close. If dice made ba better at close range fights I'm sure we'd see more aggressive recons, but since we have such a huge vocal group of anti recons I'm sure we won't see them changing anything.
  • dandop_oq7r7ppf
    313 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    (Quote)
    Yuk not me, I hated getting 360 no scoped by recons using a red dot at point blank in BF3. What we really need is recon to have solid CQB weapons in addition to long range only rifles.

    Recons have throwing knives, and pairs really well with the Revolver.
    I’ve cleaned flags out with this. Just use a spotting flare and hunt down campers with the Knives/Revolver

    An overall buff to the other side arms would be nice, as Recons have to rely on them more than any other class.
  • SlowOldWarrior
    461 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    If you only gave them 5 bullets at a time with the only re-supply points being on a flag, the vast majority of snipers would never discover it.
  • dandop_oq7r7ppf
    313 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    (Quote)
    The reason why so few play aggressive recon is because it's hard. It's so easy to get punished for small mistakes if you're using pistol or a ba up close. If dice made ba better at close range fights I'm sure we'd see more aggressive recons, but since we have such a huge vocal group of anti recons I'm sure we won't see them changing anything.

    It’s a tough balance, because if you make Recons more powerful in CQC than they could easily dominate at all ranges.

    Perhaps a buff to the Recons weapon swap speed. Maybe it could always be 30% faster than other classes.

    The m95 is a great BA for CQC does 80 damage. I think most BA should do between 70-80 max this combined with a faster side arm swap would be a good buff without being OP in my opinion.
  • SlowOldWarrior
    461 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    (Quote)
    The reason why so few play aggressive recon is because it's hard. It's so easy to get punished for small mistakes if you're using pistol or a ba up close. If dice made ba better at close range fights I'm sure we'd see more aggressive recons, but since we have such a huge vocal group of anti recons I'm sure we won't see them changing anything.

    It’s a tough balance, because if you make Recons more powerful in CQC than they could easily dominate at all ranges.

    Perhaps a buff to the Recons weapon swap speed. Maybe it could always be 30% faster than other classes.

    The m95 is a great BA for CQC does 80 damage. I think most BA should do between 70-80 max this combined with a faster side arm swap would be a good buff without being OP in my opinion.
    Disagree, but good premise - no class specific buff/nerf, just make all the sidearm swaps faster.  It will situationally benefit the snipers the most because the other classes would rarely utilize the swap (only when out of ammo).  Again, good premise - I'm good with anything that brings people onto the objective because I want to win.  
  • SlowOldWarrior
    461 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Add to my above post, the sidearm swap would also indirectly buff Support MMG players which would be appreciated after their latest nerf, just less so than snipers.
  • dandop_oq7r7ppf
    313 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    (Quote)
    Disagree, but good premise - no class specific buff/nerf, just make all the sidearm swaps faster.  It will situationally benefit the snipers the most because the other classes would rarely utilize the swap (only when out of ammo).  Again, good premise - I'm good with anything that brings people onto the objective because I want to win.  

    Yeah I’d be okay with that.
    An overall buff to side arms damage/hipfire would also be nice. Just to bring the other sidearms up to the level the Revolver is.
  • marereow
    8 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    I think we need to limit assault players
    The majority in every match is assault.

    Have you ever seen a real modern army. Assault is supposed to be the most common, not engineers and snipers as the ridiculous bf4 encourages. 75% of each team should be assault with a far smaller core of the specialists making up the other classes; engineer, support, medic, recon, spec ops. Quite frankly coming up against a recon with a cqb scope on his sniper rifle (cos he kbows he gets snap scoping then) is almost as scummy and straight out of COD as coming up against an engineer with a dmr. You barely ever see assault and support on most maps in bf4 because they require the most skill to be effective. Even then most support are rolling scumbag style with a dmr and infinite ammo. Watching snipers dancing about, taking hits to the gut, stomach, head, hid avatar twitching in pain and still hitting a perfect headshot is proof that they have reduced the skill threshold to that of a 9 year old child. I am talking hardcore here btw, imo the only way to play any shooter/wargame. And don't get me started on flir scopes for the truly unskilled. The biggest problem with all bf4 is that they have encouraged what is in imo a game breaking player influx from certain games that are somewhat struggling, mentioning no names COD, and is giving them the means to turn what has always been the best mainstream war game arcade simulator into just purely arcade. Until assault becomes the most popular choice fir most situations then the gane will be broken
  • trip1ex
    5228 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    if you make recon also cqb you just turn them into assault troops.   Then the point of classes and teamwork is further diminished.

    I never really like the change they made in BF1 and continued in BFV where the assault troops also got rockets and explosives. 

    It was more enjoyable when there was a separate engineer class with the mines and dynamite or AT class with the rockets.  

    That gave an additional role to play.  And created this dynamic of  teamwork.  

    IT sometimes would be annoying when no one on your team is AT and you need a tank down.  I imagine that is part of the reason they combined AT/engineer and Assault into one.  too many cried when a tank was there and they couldn't do anything.  Or too many in a BF4 just played engineer because the guns were good enough and you had rockets and explosives.  

    so they got rid of that teamwork aspect.  Which is funny ...because one of the supposed features of BFV is more "teamwork."  

    Also in BF1 everyone having rockets was annoying but probably not quite as annoying as BFV since you had to go prone to shoot your rocket.  I mean you couldn't just shoot it standing straight up.  


    But you also don't want a team of all snipers.  So to me it makes since to have limits for a team.  And if they want baby steps first then at least show the composition of the team classes at a glance.  

  • disposalist
    8956 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    edited October 2019
    TEKNOCODE said:
    Player: Limit snipers (aka recon)!

    Dice: Okay. Done.

    Same Player: Limit assault! Too many scopes are not ptfo!

    Dice: Okay.

    Same player: Limit support! Too many prone!

    Dice: sure.

    Same player: Limit medics! The whole team is constantly being revived!

    Dice:
    giphygif
    Lol. But no. DICE may have fooked up BF5 by giving assault scopes and making camping with an MG a win machines, but that doesn't make snipers the same issue.

    The rest can PTFO because they are designed to take and support objectives play.

    Too many assault, medic or support is never a problem, even in BF5.

    No one wants medic, assault or support *numbers* limited, they just want them balanced.

    Everyone wants sniper numbers limited, because more than a handful ruins matches, since they are designed to camp.

    Glad I could clear that up.  Again.

    For all those saying "Recon can PTFO".  Sure they can.  It's just *much* more difficult to because they aren't designed to and, so, about 99 in 100 do not.
  • filthmcnasty
    851 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    DingoKillr wrote: »
    These threads make me laugh. They all translate to I got killed by (add whatever you want here) and I'm super salty about it.

    Let others play the game they paid for however they want to and if you don't like it join a different server.

    That's not it at all! Those players are not helping the team win. I've seen games where the attacking team in Breakthrough was 40%+ snipers camping by the spawn and we lost. No shocker there!
    They can still play sniper with a hard cap if they get a slot, if not, join another server like you said. Or have dedicated servers on all platforms with hardcaps and some without and let the players decide which servers die off faster




    If you put a cap to snipers. Do you know what will happen? People will join your server, and refuse to spawn in until a sniper class becomes available. Even if they force spawn, or add a timer, people will be intentionally waiting for snipers, and possibly redeploying to get the Class.

    This won’t encourage anyone to PTFO

    If they are sniping they don't PTFO anyway. People already sit and wait for vehicles. If they can't get their sniper spawn they might jump servers... Good. Perhaps someone that wants to PTFO will join. I played with Recon caps in BF:BC2 and the game was better off with caps.

    If they are sniping using the Recon no matter how good or bad they are PTFO it is their role. Now how about sniping Assaults or Support?

    You want more people waiting, more uneven teams and pathetic rounds, just so you can relive BC2 sniper limits which had 24 players, complete destruction and Rush only.

    How of earth is a camping sniper PTFO?
  • 287martin
    227 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    The best implementation of snipers I've seen in any game is in Rising Storm 2 Vietnam (not on console never will be a console couldn't run it) limit of 2 snipers per team and if you don't have at least 200hrs experience on the maps you will not be able to kill anyone with a sniper rifle let alone a sniper on the enemy team which is your sole purpose as sniper-anti enemy sniper because the scope renders close range targets impossible to hit like in real life. You see older people talk loads about hard-core mode in battlefield because it makes each class more defined and your chosen class is more important. If you are sniper class you better play to take out the enemy snipers if you don't your whole team will be slaughtered by them simple as that. Normal battlefield is boring now you can rack up kills with any gun miss the old days where new players didn't stand a chance because they couldn't use the good guns and had to put the time and effort into unlocking the good weapons. The pc brigade has taken over at battlefield hq unfortunately
  • DingoKillr
    4351 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    DingoKillr wrote: »
    These threads make me laugh. They all translate to I got killed by (add whatever you want here) and I'm super salty about it.

    Let others play the game they paid for however they want to and if you don't like it join a different server.

    That's not it at all! Those players are not helping the team win. I've seen games where the attacking team in Breakthrough was 40%+ snipers camping by the spawn and we lost. No shocker there!
    They can still play sniper with a hard cap if they get a slot, if not, join another server like you said. Or have dedicated servers on all platforms with hardcaps and some without and let the players decide which servers die off faster




    If you put a cap to snipers. Do you know what will happen? People will join your server, and refuse to spawn in until a sniper class becomes available. Even if they force spawn, or add a timer, people will be intentionally waiting for snipers, and possibly redeploying to get the Class.

    This won’t encourage anyone to PTFO

    If they are sniping they don't PTFO anyway. People already sit and wait for vehicles. If they can't get their sniper spawn they might jump servers... Good. Perhaps someone that wants to PTFO will join. I played with Recon caps in BF:BC2 and the game was better off with caps.

    If they are sniping using the Recon no matter how good or bad they are PTFO it is their role. Now how about sniping Assaults or Support?

    You want more people waiting, more uneven teams and pathetic rounds, just so you can relive BC2 sniper limits which had 24 players, complete destruction and Rush only.

    How of earth is a camping sniper PTFO?
    Play the objective.
    Is a sniper meant to be on a flag? No
    Their role is to spot, kill and provide a spawn point and their weapons are design for medium-long range.  So their role is to support those that are attacking objective not leading from the front to take. 

    If you want Recon to PTFO limiting is not going to fix that will make it worse. Who wants to risk getting killed if they have limited access to sniper or Recon. Recon would need massive changes to be on the flag players
  • filthmcnasty
    851 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    DingoKillr wrote: »
    (Quote)
    Play the objective.
    Is a sniper meant to be on a flag? No
    Their role is to spot, kill and provide a spawn point and their weapons are design for medium-long range.  So their role is to support those that are attacking objective not leading from the front to take. 

    If you want Recon to PTFO limiting is not going to fix that will make it worse. Who wants to risk getting killed if they have limited access to sniper or Recon. Recon would need massive changes to be on the flag players

    And none of those things are done by the average sniper
    They never use spawn beacons because they never get close enough. To spawn off the player is to spawn in some asinine corner where you must cross tons of open, coverless ground to get to the objective.
    Snipers rarely shoot people on objectives, the games objectives are littered with cover. They hit people moving across open terrain and targets of opportunity.
    Spotting? That never happens. Not unless they play scout like I do and use smoke grenades, SLR, spawn beacon, and spotting flares.
    Snipers don't even bother pulling out the spotting scope. They just look down their rifle scope, oblivious to the game.
    The only support the average sniper gives is removing one useful player from your team, which supports the enemy.

    Everything you said is how it is SUPPOSED TO WORK, IN THEORY, BY COMPETENT AND SKILLED PLAYERS. But that isn't how it plays out in game the majority of the time. The average sniper sits in some corner of the map, looks down his scope, and never bothers with his equipment.
    I did play BFBC2 on private servers that limited recon, and it was great. More people PTFO or leave because that class is locked. I wished we had that option on console after playing it on PC.
    The sniper is a great team asset in theory, but people don't use it's full potential. It's always been that way.
  • ragnarok013
    3884 postsMember, Moderator, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Moderator
     Recon would need massive changes to be on the flag players
    I disagree DingoKillr. Recon is my least played class at level 15 and I usually only play it when my squad needs spotting or a spawn beacon but when I play it I'm always up front moving with the squad on the objective. When playing recon on the objective I always use the P-08 Carbine, the 1906 or the model 8 and do just fine; the people having issues on the objective are probably using bolt action sniper rifles. That being said I'd prefer if every class had access to SMGs like in BF3 for CQB fights.
This discussion has been closed.