[Megathread] BFV and Cheating Discussion

Comments

  • TyroneLoyd_TV
    1691 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited December 2019
    (Quote)
    ok
    Here an extract of ea privacy legal noticeUse of Data

    When you use an EA Service, EA may collect and store data from your computer or device, including information about your computer or device and operating system (such as IP Address and device ID), information about your EA Service usage, gameplay and usage statistics, system interactions and peripheral hardware (for example, to protect your game stats, EA may place a randomly generated identification number in the keychain storage of your device. That identifier will be removed when you reset your device). If you play an EA Service offline, this data will be stored on your device and transmitted to EA when your device connects to the Internet. EA uses this information to operate its business, improve its products and services, provide services to and communicate with you (including for marketing purposes), provide software updates, dynamically served content and software support, and trouble-shoot bugs or otherwise enhance your experience. If you participate in online services, EA also may collect, use, store, transmit and publicly display statistical data regarding game play (including scores, rankings and achievements), or identify content that is created and shared by you with other players.

    Your data is collected, used, stored and transmitted by EA Inc. in the United States, in accordance with EA's Privacy and Cookie Policy at privacy.ea.com.

    This sentence especially :
    If you participate in online services, EA also may collect, use, store, transmit and publicly display statistical data regarding game play (including scores, rankings and achievements)


    So why not providing a list af anonymized users being banned with timestamp of reports and statistical data of the reported games and also the timestamp of the ban????


    at least with that we will see that someting is happening against cheating

    He was never arguing that point and was in agreement that they should make a numbered list without names. Mods have no power whatsoever to make that decision.
    Do you guys just skim?
  • LOLGotYerTags
    14031 postsMember, Moderator, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Moderator

    This sentence especially :
    If you participate in online services, EA also may collect, use, store, transmit and publicly display statistical data regarding game play (including scores, rankings and achievements)


    That would be related to the online stats of your soldier would it not?

    Your rank is visible in both the scoreboard and on the kill card of the player you just killed,  not to mention being available on third party stats tracking websites,  Such as battlefield tracker.

    It would also be so that EA's fairfight system is allowed access to statistical data in order to identify cheating.

    It doesnt give EA free reign to put up a banlist that could result in GDPR violations in the EU and potentially be fined hundreds of thousands or even millions of dollars.
  • Carbonic
    1827 postsMember, Moderator, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Moderator
    edited December 2019
    @KapitainKavern
    I would like some statistical data of cheaters as well. Anonymized data is fine. So don't have an answer for that one.

    Post edited by Carbonic on
  • V0MlT
    14 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    so your saying this should not be available ??


  • LOLGotYerTags
    14031 postsMember, Moderator, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Moderator
    edited December 2019
    Third party site,  plus third party anticheat.

    Pbbans is not the actual AC and is not affiliated with evenbalance IIRC who make punkbuster which IS the official anticheat of BF4.

    Pbbans is a community offering of anticheat used as an additional layer on top of punkbuster.

    Same as BF4DB is an extra layer of AC.
  • KapitainKavern
    44 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Carbonic said:
    @KapitainKavern
    I would some statistical data of cheaters as well. Anonymized data is fine. So don't have an answer for that one.

    Thank you
    at least we agree at one point ;-)

    and be sure: don't see agressivity against you in my comments.
    It's only frustration at my side
  • MrCamp121
    1013 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    3 cheaters in one server. All from.the same platoon that im sure everyone on NA servers knows. How any of these devs still have jobs is beyond me
  • panzrleader
    3 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    If there not cheating they should disregard the comment, I get called a noob all the time and I don't have a cry about it.People need to act their age and not have a meltdown other criticism.Cheats are in many games every day,I just played a game where medic had a score of 122 kills 6 deaths he was running around constantly vaguely pointing gun and hitting enemy every time.

  • MachoFantast1c0
    2067 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    MrCamp121 wrote: »
    3 cheaters in one server. All from.the same platoon that im sure everyone on NA servers knows. How any of these devs still have jobs is beyond me

    The AC chief maybe takes his job as seriously as his studies?

  • 0ld_yell0w
    415 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Carbonic said:
    The GDPR won't hinder EA/DICE  from posting a banlist of players with their ingame name. "Banned player Elmo" wouldnt tell who the cheater really are.
    If you wrote "We banned Elmer Fudd, Elms Road 39, postalcode 83211 Idaho" , THAT would be a breach because it could identify your unique personal ID.
    .....
    @0ld_yell0w
    GDPR includes the term online identifiers within the definition of what constitutes personal data (Recital 30 GDPR).
    Account handles could under this be considered personal data as the handles are unique and can be used to identify people (unique identifier). In your example people that know Elmos identity in real life would be able to know that the data shared was about him because there would only be one person with the handle Elmo. As another example lets say jackfrags' handle appeared in the banlist, all of his Youtube followers would be able to identify him if he appeared on a public banlist.

    An example is mentioned here
    An individual’s social media ‘handle’ or username, which may seem anonymous or nonsensical, is still sufficient to identify them as it uniquely identifies that individual. The username is personal data if it distinguishes one individual from another regardless of whether it is possible to link the ‘online’ identity with a ‘real world’ named individual.


    Again, I don't feel bad about cheaters having their names displayed in public, the more the better to prevent cheating - I just don't think lawyers working for game publishers and developers would agree.


    I am not quite sure if BFV functions same way as BF3 and BF4 namewise, but if you release a name (change your ingame name) some one else is free to use it, think this was implemented in 2008. Which is as I remember it through your origin account which is linked to the soldier on the specific platform - in this case pc. That would make it impossible to figure out who you are if you made that change. If youre dumb enough to cheat I guess youre also too dumb to change your name after getting caught. Besides most of the advanced cheatsites brag about having namespoof as HardWare ID spoofers too .... go figure :| I DO know there are other means to catch a player who cheated in the past as Im admin myself with a pletora of tools at my disposal in bf3 and bf4 - which there isnt in BF5 .... so basically you can't figure out who is who unless youre connected through other communication platforms than BF5 or am I wrong ?

    Nevermind, I have no reason to believe DICE/EA will change tactics and spend money on saving this game which at some point this long thread is an obvious proof to, no one from EA been here commenting on the misssing AC . If you Reddit where theres far more posibillities to post about cheaters
    hence EA doesnt own Reddit you can see daily uploaded videos of players blatantly cheating AND getting their names shown to public.
    So, - whats the real difference here ? EA has an idea of not posting - letting us post but they cant do any about we do it any other places ? why not just grab it by the throat and be honest ? No, we dont have AC - we just sacked the angry dwarf reading all the reports ?  And start it up from scratch because as it is now, I doubt any one has confidence in EA/DICE ....









  • GigaBrainGamer
    31 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member

    The problem lies with EA/DICE, we all know this. Their mentality is to keep shelling out BF games and the consumer (the players) will keep purchasing them regardless of what lack luster anti-cheat they have installed. We've seen BF4 w/ PB, BF1 w/ FF and now BFV with.....whatever it's called...FF 2.0 which is laughable. The WORLD is laughing at EA/DICE for their anti-cheat system. Coders, hackers, software programmers can EASILY bypass EA/DICE anti-cheat and use it until the pigs fly. Why? With all the video evidence, forum threads, discussions, LIVE Q&A, EA/DICE remains "silent" on their anti-cheat. Come on DICE, be real, you can't possibly voice during your Q&A in Nov 2018 that your "Top Secret" anti-cheat for BFV is working. We cant name and shame, we can't post vids, we can ONLY submit a few sentences with "video" or "screenshots" of players through Official EA Help. And guess what, those SAME cheaters that have been reported over and over and over and over are STILL playing the game. DICE..YOU ARE LETTING THESE PPL RUIN YOUR REPUTATION!!! Yet when other players get falsely accused of cheating, oh, well, we gotta ban them then. No matter how much the players rant and rave over anti-cheat...IT'S NOT GOING TO CHANGE how EA/DICE does business. If the shareholders are happy that $$$ keep's coming in so EA/DICE can keep making BF games, then the head cooperate at EA are happy. Well, god forbid EA/DICE actually makes a anti-cheat that REALLY works to BAN legit cheaters. But wait, the money...what if the money stop coming in?? Oh, better not make that anti-cheat just yet EA/DICE. Don't think about hardware or IP ban either noooope, just keep FF 2.0 alive in BFV, let the cheaters run rampid, ban a few here and there, let them make another account so you get more money AND on top of that, keep BFV on sale at low price so you'll also get more money, especially Black Friday and Christmas....gotta get those 1st Quarter quota sales up for the new year!! See, its a WIN WIN for EA/DICE and 100% loss for the consumer. This type of business is REALLY REALLY dirty. Players think they are getting a good product but we're not. Out of all the nerf, buff, patches, fixes, customizations, skins and all the shiny things....the anti-cheat is a disgrace to BFV. But I'm pretty sure big boy AAA Gaming Company are feeling really bad right now....naaaa, who am I kidding, they LOVE the community. The love to keep us angry, frustrated with the game, lack of trust and faith in this franchise and developers. See, you can only polish a ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ so much before there's no more ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ left. DICE "may" have saved BFV from totally sinking, but, their anti-cheat is still a worldly joke. I value playing BF games, always have, still play BFV from time to time, however, the more cheaters I come across, the more I just want to self this game. In any case, it don't matter, the second I bought BFV, I lost to them 100%, we have all lost to them 100%. No one can say that they are 100% satisfied w/ BFV...no one.

    EA/DICE k/d ratio: 1,000,000+ / 0

    Seems like EA/DICE just keeps using their own "cheats" to keep winning no matter the cost.

  • KapitainKavern
    44 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Carbonic said:
    The GDPR won't hinder EA/DICE  from posting a banlist of players with their ingame name. "Banned player Elmo" wouldnt tell who the cheater really are.
    If you wrote "We banned Elmer Fudd, Elms Road 39, postalcode 83211 Idaho" , THAT would be a breach because it could identify your unique personal ID.
    .....
    @0ld_yell0w
    GDPR includes the term online identifiers within the definition of what constitutes personal data (Recital 30 GDPR).
    Account handles could under this be considered personal data as the handles are unique and can be used to identify people (unique identifier). In your example people that know Elmos identity in real life would be able to know that the data shared was about him because there would only be one person with the handle Elmo. As another example lets say jackfrags' handle appeared in the banlist, all of his Youtube followers would be able to identify him if he appeared on a public banlist.

    An example is mentioned here
    An individual’s social media ‘handle’ or username, which may seem anonymous or nonsensical, is still sufficient to identify them as it uniquely identifies that individual. The username is personal data if it distinguishes one individual from another regardless of whether it is possible to link the ‘online’ identity with a ‘real world’ named individual.


    Again, I don't feel bad about cheaters having their names displayed in public, the more the better to prevent cheating - I just don't think lawyers working for game publishers and developers would agree.

    Yes but what said GDPR about personnal data:
    1. personal must give his consent for ea to store the data in order to provide the service.

    2. personal can ask ea to provide list of data they have

    3. personal can give revocation at any time.
    extract wikipedia : 
    A data controller may not refuse service to users who decline consent to processing that is not strictly necessary in order to use the service. (Article 7(4))
    But if data is strictly necessary to provide the service than EA can refuse the service

    4.EA has to provide on request the list of companies receiving the data collected by EA and why they are sent to other companies.

    5.EA has the obligation to answer to official controller (if requested) and provide the complete flow of data.

    6.a specific role must be identified at EA it's called DPO (Data Protection officer), this guy is responsible to analysze all the personal data in use in the company and provide the flow and reason why data is stored.

    7. in case of data breach the regulatory services nees to be alerted within 72 hours

    There are a lot of other topics.

    But all of the abvove are mandatory and EA asked us to give our consent.
    In my opinion the service EA provides contains:
    -providing a game
    -provideing an online platform
    ......
    and it's up to you to put in the service you provide something like : "ensuring the integrity of the game and ensuring customers received what they have paid for"

    If you put it in the services description that everybody has to accept to play BFV. Then you are covered for using pseudo to fullfill the part of your service releted to cheating/hacking.

    So I really don't understand why EA had so much reluctance to fight hacking efficiently and to use all the tools and means they can use.
    Behalve the fact that it cost money they don't want to spend for some reason.

    Why do we ask for names?
    Because we see cheaters all day long and nothing done, we see guys we reported still active after months.
    At least provide an anonymized list of cheters being banned with list and timestamp of reports and also timestamp of ban. Timestamp are not personnal info and an anonymized list if ok regarding regulations.

    More info here : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Data_Protection_Regulation
    I know it's wikipedia, there can be errors but at least it gives a good overview with comprehensible words.

    The complete law is here : https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:32016R0679







  • KapitainKavern
    44 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Strange I put my post yesterday and it shows only now?
    Some kind of filtering/review?
  • RRedux
    739 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Strange I put my post yesterday and it shows only now?
    Some kind of filtering/review?
    I think so, it's happened to me before too, I post something and it doesn't show up until much later.

    Hasn't happened for a while.
  • JoesDementia
    708 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Why doesn't EA work with Microsoft to utilize and help improve "Trueplay" anti-cheat?

    Seems to me that OS level anti-cheat has to be better than any third-party program.

    Sure, it's W10 only (for now) but Windows 7 is EoL in January anyway.
  • OftenShot
    93 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    The AC chief maybe takes his job as seriously as his studies?


  • RRedux
    739 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Jumpy-B-L said:
    Why doesn't EA work with Microsoft to utilize and help improve "Trueplay" anti-cheat?

    Seems to me that OS level anti-cheat has to be better than any third-party program.

    Sure, it's W10 only (for now) but Windows 7 is EoL in January anyway.
    There are tons of things they CAN do. They just aren't doing any of them, and they aren't saying why. The just claim over and over again that they are doing SOMETHING, something magical they can't say anything about. That, combined with the fact that players keep seeing cheaters playing online, with no indication that bans of cheaters are taking place, makes Dice's claim that they are, in fact, doing "something" sound like a cheap lie.

    They aren't even responding to this thread that they made, I guess they only made this thread to stop people from making new anti-cheater threads (you know, since they banned any threads talking about the cheater issues for a very long time).
  • No1male
    1 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited December 2019
    [Removed due to name and shame]
    Post edited by LOLGotYerTags on
  • LOLGotYerTags
    14031 postsMember, Moderator, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Moderator
    edited December 2019
    @KapitainKavern @RRedux
    Let's not do the tinfoil hat conspiracy theories.

    Your post will have triggered the spam filter ( which none of us have control over ) and it would have been held for review.

    Once a mod checks the queue we can read the post and approve the post,  hence the post appearing all of a sudden.

    We dont often get to check the queue so sometimes it can take a little while for us to spot that there are posts pending approval.

    Next time your post gets hit,  send a mod a private message or tag us in the thread to let us know and we'll be able to get it back for you.
This discussion has been closed.