Fliegerfaust Overpowered - DICE get your balancing straight!

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  • Hawxxeye
    6704 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    VincentNZ said:
    VincentNZ wrote: »
    (Quote)

    Well, you might want to try going 50-0 in a regular match as infantry, and that won't happen regardless how skilled you are. Somehow removing yourself totally from the actual game played and only coming in for kills constitutes as skill.
    A vehicle is not a rare commodity, a vehicle is 100% effective manned by one person. Hence it is nothing special and should be treated as just another infantryman on the ground. Just as an anecdote, a couple of days ago I had a guy going 47-10, he was infantry first and then manned solely a bomber. This means that he was able to spawn the vehicle of his choice at least nine times in this game and resulting in a K/D of 4.7.
    And again, the use of the FF needs two people at least to counter a plane.

    Vehicles are, and have always been, a force multiplier. Meaning they should be treated as more than “just another infantryman”. Or there is just no point in having them.
    Compared to infantry, vehicles are a rare commodity.
    Any solo infantry with any sort of brain can watch a plane and start firing his FF once it has taken any slight bit of damage from anything else.

    All you biased pilot haters just need to take a couple of seconds to think sensibly instead of letting your pilot rage take control of your senses.
    They are a force multiplier. They have much more health and weaponry that is totally independent of range dynamics. They need an combined effort from multiple players to take down, only two (one for planes) infantry classes can affect them, while being a threat to all players on the field.
    Additionally they are not a rare commodity, otherwise you would not be able to main a vehicle. You have 1-9 vehicles per side with the option to spawn them in yourself, too, with a cooldown of 180s. As seen in my example you can absolutely get the vehicle of your choice 9 times in a game that lasts 30 minutes.
    And no, any solo infantry can absolutely not engage a plane with the FF. It needs to be an Assault that has the FF equipped, which is, assuming 30% play Assault, 19 on a server, assuming 50% of them run the FF means 9,5 on a server again meaning 4-5 per team. That is the number of FF on average per team.
    I would like to add that the number of the FF users is gradually dropping over time  even without a nerf.
    Today I was free to make very low but fast passes over enemy clusters to drop the incendiary bombs
  • bigiain
    312 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    I'm actually amazed at how little it's changed pilot behaviour, I had to keep switching back to assault this morning because of the number of enemy pilots asking to be shot by the FF. 
  • Turban_Legend80
    4706 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Member
    VincentNZ wrote: »
    (Quote)
    They are a force multiplier. They have much more health and weaponry that is totally independent of range dynamics. They need an combined effort from multiple players to take down, only two (one for planes) infantry classes can affect them, while being a threat to all players on the field.Additionally they are not a rare commodity, otherwise you would not be able to main a vehicle. You have 1-9 vehicles per side with the option to spawn them in yourself, too, with a cooldown of 180s. As seen in my example you can absolutely get the vehicle of your choice 9 times in a game that lasts 30 minutes.
    And no, any solo infantry can absolutely not engage a plane with the FF. It needs to be an Assault that has the FF equipped, which is, assuming 30% play Assault, 19 on a server, assuming 50% of them run the FF means 9,5 on a server again meaning 4-5 per team. That is the number of FF on average per team.

    30% assault on vehicle maps? I think you already know that’s very unlikely.
    You’re trying a bit too hard to make your argument work mate.
  • VincentNZ
    3874 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    VincentNZ wrote: »
    (Quote)
    They are a force multiplier. They have much more health and weaponry that is totally independent of range dynamics. They need an combined effort from multiple players to take down, only two (one for planes) infantry classes can affect them, while being a threat to all players on the field.Additionally they are not a rare commodity, otherwise you would not be able to main a vehicle. You have 1-9 vehicles per side with the option to spawn them in yourself, too, with a cooldown of 180s. As seen in my example you can absolutely get the vehicle of your choice 9 times in a game that lasts 30 minutes.
    And no, any solo infantry can absolutely not engage a plane with the FF. It needs to be an Assault that has the FF equipped, which is, assuming 30% play Assault, 19 on a server, assuming 50% of them run the FF means 9,5 on a server again meaning 4-5 per team. That is the number of FF on average per team.

    30% assault on vehicle maps? I think you already know that’s very unlikely.
    You’re trying a bit too hard to make your argument work mate.
    Well, I said on average, didn't I? And even then, I doubt this would change, as 30% mean 19 Assaults total, on PS, where we also have 2 pilots and 7 tankers per side. Or on Pacific Storm where we have like 5 tankers, three pilots and whatever else spawns on the map. So yeah, I think this is pretty close to the average game regardless of the vehicle count.
    So I do not try hard at all. This means we have like 37/64 already taken and 27 slots still to distribute between three classes. So this would mean already double the Assault count than any other class.
  • MBT_Layzan
    2229 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    SirBobdk said:
    Imo air is a little odd on the pacific maps. The FF is so strong on close/medium range and the planes are strong on long range.
    This means that planes can farm infantry from a distance where FF can not reach and it is quite easy.
    It's not unusual to see pilots go 60-100 / 5 and in most cases the zero.There is also an imbalance between US and Japanese planes.
    Both FF and planes need a balanced, so planes have to fly closer to the ground, but without having to face instant death.

    I've noticed this, seen pilots going 70+-0 and infantry are trying as hard as possible to FF them to no avail.
  • TFBisquit
    1915 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Yeah you already need multiple players to take out one plane. Dice better do a decent fine-tuning or else I foresee an air dominance in the Pacific maps.
  • Hawxxeye
    6704 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited November 2019
    bigiain said:
    I'm actually amazed at how little it's changed pilot behaviour, I had to keep switching back to assault this morning because of the number of enemy pilots asking to be shot by the FF. 
    Because a lot of the people here who have issue with the FF have not realised that at least in the pacific, the plane  respawn rate is a lot faster so it makes being shot down a lot less of a setback.
    .
    Perhaps the final solution to the anti air balance (instead of weakening any counters) is having the planes at a shortened respawn everywhere in order to reduce the frustration of waiting at the respawn screen.
    .
    Same for tanks.
  • bigiain
    312 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Hawxxeye said:
    bigiain said:
    I'm actually amazed at how little it's changed pilot behaviour, I had to keep switching back to assault this morning because of the number of enemy pilots asking to be shot by the FF. 
    Because a lot of the people here who have issue with the FF have not realised that at least in the pacific, the plane  respawn rate is a lot faster so it makes being shot down a lot less of a setback.
    .
    Perhaps the final solution to the anti air balance (instead of weakening any counters) is having the planes at a shortened respawn everywhere in order to reduce the frustration of waiting at the respawn screen.
    .
    Same for tanks.
    I'd be fine with that to be honest. The desire so many people have to build a kill streak rather than win in the vehicles is one of the worst things that's crept into the game here and in BF1. Vehicles everywhere is definitely one of the big improvements in the Pacific maps.
  • TFBisquit
    1915 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    That's because of stats. Ever since games kept track of your kills and deaths we have undesirable side effects. Before that people didn't mind going kamikaze, getting killed 50 times in a round etc.
    Fast respawn of everything would be helpful indeed.
  • ElliotLH
    8900 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Mensrea831 wrote: »
    Tbh this is a great weapon actually...at first i was angered by being practically one shot almost comstantly. But after a few adjustments the only time i get killed by this thing are when i deserve it. Also it opens up a space for tankers to not be spammed by panzerfausts ever 3 seconds.

    Good way of looking at it actually.
  • snavelaer
    1148 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Hawxxeye wrote: »
    (Quote)

    Because a lot of the people here who have issue with the FF have not realised that at least in the pacific, the plane  respawn rate is a lot faster so it makes being shot down a lot less of a setback..Perhaps the final solution to the anti air balance (instead of weakening any counters) is having the planes at a shortened respawn everywhere in order to reduce the frustration of waiting at the respawn screen..Same for tanks.

    This
  • ragnarok013
    3614 postsMember, Moderator, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Moderator
    edited November 2019
    luky31 said:
    Fliegerfaust is great weapon. Finally something usefull against planes. AA is very nerfed. DICE thanks for Fliegerfaust  and save it in thi condition.




    It's still ineffective against ace pilots, they will simply take more distance just like they do with SAA. They cant be countered. DICE needs to think something up.
    TheyHaveScissors Ace pilots have always been a problem even in previous games where we had lock ons, AA mines, and laser designated munitions. I think the best course of action is to accept that there will be outliers and to balance for the majority of players to be able to counter your average pilot - which I think the current iteration of the Fliegerfaust does well.
  • ragnarok013
    3614 postsMember, Moderator, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Moderator
    bigiain said:
    I'm actually amazed at how little it's changed pilot behaviour, I had to keep switching back to assault this morning because of the number of enemy pilots asking to be shot by the FF. 
    bigiain on which platform are you playing? When I play Conquest on PC I see fewer pilots flying low and strafing with impunity unlike before the FF was unlocked.
  • 9IronKiller
    103 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    As long as the HE rounds and incendiary exist, I will carry the FF
  • bigiain
    312 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    bigiain said:
    I'm actually amazed at how little it's changed pilot behaviour, I had to keep switching back to assault this morning because of the number of enemy pilots asking to be shot by the FF. 
    bigiain on which platform are you playing? When I play Conquest on PC I see fewer pilots flying low and strafing with impunity unlike before the FF was unlocked.
    Xbox. More mixed today, there were at least times when it looked like pilots were concerned about getting too close. Still some easy kills though.

    In a game where players will pretty regularly set up shop in their own spawn, nothing should surprise me.
  • Hawxxeye
    6704 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited November 2019
    Just now with the zero bomber I just did this simple tactic in order to kill as many infantry as possible without being taken out by FF.
    .
    1. First after resupplying I fly high up and make a pass over a place that I expect to find a lot of enemies like an objective.
    2. After I confirm the amount of enemies on the minimap I make a turn and approach the enemies from the side their own planes would come  andmake a high speed strafe over the area and within that window I pick where to drop my bombs and get away from there full throttle while hugging the  terrain as much as possible to make it hard for enemies to lead a FF shot on me

    .
    PS: Before someone says this will not work against good players, remember that focused and dedicated players are a tiny minority.
    Post edited by Hawxxeye on
  • TFBisquit
    1915 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    bigiain said:
    I'm actually amazed at how little it's changed pilot behaviour, I had to keep switching back to assault this morning because of the number of enemy pilots asking to be shot by the FF. 
    bigiain on which platform are you playing? When I play Conquest on PC I see fewer pilots flying low and strafing with impunity unlike before the FF was unlocked.
    Planes are back at that on pc. Not many using FF, so that creates an opportunity in pacific maps. Most pilots do exceptionally well diving in deep and taking that 90 damage from that single FF user.
    In theory planes could be obliterated if many ran with it, but in practice almost none are using it. I feel any nerf Dice is thinking about will make the FF obsolete, no one will use it then.
  • mf_shro0m
    2246 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    TFBisquit wrote: »
    (Quote)
    Planes are back at that on pc. Not many using FF, so that creates an opportunity in pacific maps. Most pilots do exceptionally well diving in deep and taking that 90 damage from that single FF user.In theory planes could be obliterated if many ran with it, but in practice almost none are using it. I feel any nerf Dice is thinking about will make the FF obsolete, no one will use it then.

    I disagree. With 3 planes on each side in the Pacific planes usually get spotted by hostile planes quickly and so for whatever reason FFs usually either OHK me or it leaves by limping on a platter for the hostile pilots
  • SmokeD_BabooN
    490 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    After playing one weekend CQ on Pacific maps, as a main pilot I have to change slightly my opinion about FF. While it is newby and really easy to use, this gadget works like a deterrent to cheap tactics like camping airfield by enemy planes, or abusing open areas by planes.

    In Pacific maps this gadget should be allowed, in vanilla CQ should be a pick up that can be replenished. Even though I usually hold my own in dogfight against 2 pilots, I ve seen too many times, clans stacked when an ace pilot is followed by other 2 mates sub par pilots. He is using those as a bait, camping enemy airfield day and night. Considering fixed AA's are an easy prey for any decent pilot, FF is a powerful tool to prevent that kind of cheap tactics.

    In other words a cheap gun vs cheap tactics.

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