Fliegerfaust Overpowered - DICE get your balancing straight!

Comments

  • Hawxxeye
    6714 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Hawxxeye wrote: »
    (Quote)
    Yes because the risk the tank takes to do flaking attacks is larger by several orders of magnitude. It is very likely for people respawning to literally bump to it from behind and make his engine go boom

    Sure that’s a risk but all it’d take to take your plane down would be 2 guys with FFs or 1 FF and 1 AA or 1 plane.

    It’s not that different. All it’d have taken is a bit of intelligence and some patience
    They have to be prepared cause the window of opportunity is tiny.
    The tank on the other hand is a slow mass of steel that can be damaged by many more sources. Everyone in 2 of the classes always carry something that can damage it.
  • MBT_Layzan
    2252 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Hawxxeye said:
    Hawxxeye wrote: »
    (Quote)
    Yes because the risk the tank takes to do flaking attacks is larger by several orders of magnitude. It is very likely for people respawning to literally bump to it from behind and make his engine go boom

    Sure that’s a risk but all it’d take to take your plane down would be 2 guys with FFs or 1 FF and 1 AA or 1 plane.

    It’s not that different. All it’d have taken is a bit of intelligence and some patience
    They have to be prepared cause the window of opportunity is tiny.
    The tank on the other hand is a slow mass of steel that can be damaged by many more sources. Everyone in 2 of the classes always carry something that can damage it.
    Yup, I was going to write something alike but gave up. Could you imagine the FF being made redundant, fun times for tanking! 
  • mf_shro0m
    2271 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited November 2019
    Hawxxeye wrote: »
    (Quote)

    They have to be prepared cause the window of opportunity is tiny.The tank on the other hand is a slow mass of steel that can be damaged by many more sources. Everyone in 2 of the classes always carry something that can damage it.

    Not exactly. On more than one occasion a dude with a FF killed me with his second volley. If his first did a lot of damage the second only needs to tickle you. Plus before or after that first volley an AA or pilot on his team could tickle you and you’ll be dead and that AA or pilot probably has a big window of opportunity

    Plus an assault would either need to sneak up on the tank and get close enough to cover it in dynamite and stay hidden until they can set it off or they‘d need to land 3 carefully placed PIATs which takes time and planning. As the tanker so long as you stay alert you can usually catch the flanker(s) and blow them up in time.
    As a tanker you can survey your surroundings far better than you can as a pilot. As a pilot you don’t even know which of the two dozen ants down there has a FF ready to shoot you down. As a tanker, if they’re anywhere near you you know they’re coming for you and the more flankers there are the easier it is to spot them
  • VincentNZ
    3874 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Hawxxeye said:
    Hawxxeye wrote: »
    (Quote)
    Yes because the risk the tank takes to do flaking attacks is larger by several orders of magnitude. It is very likely for people respawning to literally bump to it from behind and make his engine go boom

    Sure that’s a risk but all it’d take to take your plane down would be 2 guys with FFs or 1 FF and 1 AA or 1 plane.

    It’s not that different. All it’d have taken is a bit of intelligence and some patience
    They have to be prepared cause the window of opportunity is tiny.
    The tank on the other hand is a slow mass of steel that can be damaged by many more sources. Everyone in 2 of the classes always carry something that can damage it.
    Realistically it is only the Assault though. Support has always been the least played class in all BF games and since the AT pistol nerf I doubt all of them run it. Additionally half the support players will never be near any vehicle, as the MMG playstyle rather enforces staying immobile 50m away from the action.
  • Hawxxeye
    6714 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Hawxxeye wrote: »
    (Quote)

    They have to be prepared cause the window of opportunity is tiny.The tank on the other hand is a slow mass of steel that can be damaged by many more sources. Everyone in 2 of the classes always carry something that can damage it.

    Not exactly. On more than one occasion a dude with a FF killed me with his second volley. If his first did a lot of damage the second only needs to tickle you. Plus before or after that first volley an AA or pilot on his team could tickle you and you’ll be dead and that AA or pilot probably has a big window of opportunity

    Plus an assault would either need to sneak up on the tank and get close enough to cover it in dynamite and stay hidden until they can set it off or they‘d need to land 3 carefully placed PIATs which takes time and planning. As the tanker so long as you stay alert you can usually catch the flanker(s) and blow them up in time.
    As a tanker you can survey your surroundings far better than you can as a pilot. As a pilot you don’t even know which of the two dozen ants down there has a FF ready to shoot you down. As a tanker, if they’re anywhere near you you know they’re coming for you and the more flankers there are the easier it is to spot them
    It is a simple matter of being overwhelmingly outnumbered and attritioned to death with no quick escape. It does not have to be a single good assault making a great play, it can be half a dozen stupid zombies all taking a chuck of health until a lucky zombie gets the final blow.


  • MBT_Layzan
    2252 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Just came from a game I joined late, pilot was going about 16-0, our side where stuck at A-B which they took on Pacific Storm and we had a 160 tickets left. The pilot was not top score, but it was clear he had mastered the bombs because all our tanks were either getting exploded, or too afraid to move on the next area because they faced tanks, and well dug in infantry. The problem was, the plane as soon as he had the bombs, would move on a tank, I took a hit that left me with like 3 health. If anything else just looked at me, I'd be dead too. Another took me to like 11 health and blew the depot. 

    Our pilots were up there too, but it did not stop this going on, and the thing is, it happens so quick and there is nothing I can do, the fact of trying to face the rest of the side seems stupid when our ground forces with the dreaded FF can't or are not warding off the planes. Moving on three enemy tanks and a defensive position with these kinda pilots flying against you. This is where it shines how much we need REAL mobile AA and fixed AA that works available on any plane map for any stage of Breakthrough.  
  • mf_shro0m
    2271 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Hawxxeye wrote: »
    (Quote)

    It is a simple matter of being overwhelmingly outnumbered and attritioned to death with no quick escape. It does not have to be a single good assault making a great play, it can be half a dozen stupid zombies all taking a chuck of health until a lucky zombie gets the final blow.

    It looks like we’re predominantly basing our opinions on different modes. I generally prefer breakthrough and frontlines to conquest and I’ve only played one CQ round in the Pacific which happened to be on Pacific storm and that was a similar experience to what’s in your video. Tanking in Pacific storm CQ’s just a bit of a cluster****. I haven’t tried flying in CQ in the Pacific yet so I can’t comment on that, all I know is that in breakthrough if the hostiles have a few people who either main AA or just hate pilots then they’ll all be aiming this or that at you and if there’s 1 AA, 1 FF and 1 pilot who have their eyes on you and your friendly pilots are no help you’re screwed as a pilot but I’ve survived wave after wave of tanks + infantry as a tanker before with some clever positioning

    I really wish they finally add a team chat function so squads can work together. Even if it’s just the squad leaders who can communicate with each other it could help make a lot of the game’s problems a lot better
  • mf_shro0m
    2271 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    MBT_Layzan wrote: »
    Just came from a game I joined late, pilot was going about 16-0, our side where stuck at A-B which they took on Pacific Storm and we had a 160 tickets left. The pilot was not top score, but it was clear he had mastered the bombs because all our tanks were either getting exploded, or too afraid to move on the next area because they faced tanks, and well dug in infantry. The problem was, the plane as soon as he had the bombs, would move on a tank, I took a hit that left me with like 3 health. If anything else just looked at me, I'd be dead too. Another took me to like 11 health and blew the depot. 

    Our pilots were up there too, but it did not stop this going on, and the thing is, it happens so quick and there is nothing I can do, the fact of trying to face the rest of the side seems stupid when our ground forces with the dreaded FF can't or are not warding off the planes. Moving on three enemy tanks and a defensive position with these kinda pilots flying against you. This is where it shines how much we need REAL mobile AA and fixed AA that works available on any plane map for any stage of Breakthrough.  

    I’ve seen that too but imo the stationary AAs are currently more than strong enough. The HMGs on the light tank I haven’t tried yet.

    Like I’ve said before I don’t think you can eliminate situations like what you described purely by buffing MAAs and SAAs without sealing rookie and even average pilots out of flying. I think the only way to solve it would be to make it so that both teams have fairly equal aerial abilities in every round. I mean when they balance AAs with planes they can’t be balancing it under the assumptions that the planes will leave each other alone and farm together. If they made that assumption AAs would destroy planes
  • Hawxxeye
    6714 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited November 2019
    Hawxxeye wrote: »
    (Quote)

    It is a simple matter of being overwhelmingly outnumbered and attritioned to death with no quick escape. It does not have to be a single good assault making a great play, it can be half a dozen stupid zombies all taking a chuck of health until a lucky zombie gets the final blow.

    It looks like we’re predominantly basing our opinions on different modes. I generally prefer breakthrough and frontlines to conquest and I’ve only played one CQ round in the Pacific which happened to be on Pacific storm and that was a similar experience to what’s in your video. Tanking in Pacific storm CQ’s just a bit of a cluster****. I haven’t tried flying in CQ in the Pacific yet so I can’t comment on that, all I know is that in breakthrough if the hostiles have a few people who either main AA or just hate pilots then they’ll all be aiming this or that at you and if there’s 1 AA, 1 FF and 1 pilot who have their eyes on you and your friendly pilots are no help you’re screwed as a pilot but I’ve survived wave after wave of tanks + infantry as a tanker before with some clever positioning

    I really wish they finally add a team chat function so squads can work together. Even if it’s just the squad leaders who can communicate with each other it could help make a lot of the game’s problems a lot better
    My footage is clearly from Breakthrough though
    MBT_Layzan wrote: »
    Just came from a game I joined late, pilot was going about 16-0, our side where stuck at A-B which they took on Pacific Storm and we had a 160 tickets left. The pilot was not top score, but it was clear he had mastered the bombs because all our tanks were either getting exploded, or too afraid to move on the next area because they faced tanks, and well dug in infantry. The problem was, the plane as soon as he had the bombs, would move on a tank, I took a hit that left me with like 3 health. If anything else just looked at me, I'd be dead too. Another took me to like 11 health and blew the depot. 

    Our pilots were up there too, but it did not stop this going on, and the thing is, it happens so quick and there is nothing I can do, the fact of trying to face the rest of the side seems stupid when our ground forces with the dreaded FF can't or are not warding off the planes. Moving on three enemy tanks and a defensive position with these kinda pilots flying against you. This is where it shines how much we need REAL mobile AA and fixed AA that works available on any plane map for any stage of Breakthrough.  

    I’ve seen that too but imo the stationary AAs are currently more than strong enough. The HMGs on the light tank I haven’t tried yet.

    Like I’ve said before I don’t think you can eliminate situations like what you described purely by buffing MAAs and SAAs without sealing rookie and even average pilots out of flying. I think the only way to solve it would be to make it so that both teams have fairly equal aerial abilities in every round. I mean when they balance AAs with planes they can’t be balancing it under the assumptions that the planes will leave each other alone and farm together. If they made that assumption AAs would destroy planes

    Actually I do think that the AAs should be balanced around the assumption that a team might not be having competent dogfighters. Each time that I attempt to fight one of those superpilots I find they got metagaming knowledge on the unintuitive plane physics of this game that I could not even dream off. For example how the hell does instead of looping horizontally does moving upwards and then back downwards the loop results in a net gain in energy? My internal logic says that the net gain should had been zero and that the additional distance traveled that way should allow the other guy who turns normally to move faster instead of slower.
  • Lancelot_du_Lac
    145 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    IMHO keep FF damage, but reduce effective range to 100 metres.
  • StealthAria
    464 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited November 2019
    Hawxxeye said:
    Hawxxeye wrote: »
    (Quote)

    It is a simple matter of being overwhelmingly outnumbered and attritioned to death with no quick escape. It does not have to be a single good assault making a great play, it can be half a dozen stupid zombies all taking a chuck of health until a lucky zombie gets the final blow.

    It looks like we’re predominantly basing our opinions on different modes. I generally prefer breakthrough and frontlines to conquest and I’ve only played one CQ round in the Pacific which happened to be on Pacific storm and that was a similar experience to what’s in your video. Tanking in Pacific storm CQ’s just a bit of a cluster****. I haven’t tried flying in CQ in the Pacific yet so I can’t comment on that, all I know is that in breakthrough if the hostiles have a few people who either main AA or just hate pilots then they’ll all be aiming this or that at you and if there’s 1 AA, 1 FF and 1 pilot who have their eyes on you and your friendly pilots are no help you’re screwed as a pilot but I’ve survived wave after wave of tanks + infantry as a tanker before with some clever positioning

    I really wish they finally add a team chat function so squads can work together. Even if it’s just the squad leaders who can communicate with each other it could help make a lot of the game’s problems a lot better
    My footage is clearly from Breakthrough though
    MBT_Layzan wrote: »
    Just came from a game I joined late, pilot was going about 16-0, our side where stuck at A-B which they took on Pacific Storm and we had a 160 tickets left. The pilot was not top score, but it was clear he had mastered the bombs because all our tanks were either getting exploded, or too afraid to move on the next area because they faced tanks, and well dug in infantry. The problem was, the plane as soon as he had the bombs, would move on a tank, I took a hit that left me with like 3 health. If anything else just looked at me, I'd be dead too. Another took me to like 11 health and blew the depot. 

    Our pilots were up there too, but it did not stop this going on, and the thing is, it happens so quick and there is nothing I can do, the fact of trying to face the rest of the side seems stupid when our ground forces with the dreaded FF can't or are not warding off the planes. Moving on three enemy tanks and a defensive position with these kinda pilots flying against you. This is where it shines how much we need REAL mobile AA and fixed AA that works available on any plane map for any stage of Breakthrough.  

    I’ve seen that too but imo the stationary AAs are currently more than strong enough. The HMGs on the light tank I haven’t tried yet.

    Like I’ve said before I don’t think you can eliminate situations like what you described purely by buffing MAAs and SAAs without sealing rookie and even average pilots out of flying. I think the only way to solve it would be to make it so that both teams have fairly equal aerial abilities in every round. I mean when they balance AAs with planes they can’t be balancing it under the assumptions that the planes will leave each other alone and farm together. If they made that assumption AAs would destroy planes

    Actually I do think that the AAs should be balanced around the assumption that a team might not be having competent dogfighters. Each time that I attempt to fight one of those superpilots I find they got metagaming knowledge on the unintuitive plane physics of this game that I could not even dream off. For example how the hell does instead of looping horizontally does moving upwards and then back downwards the loop results in a net gain in energy? My internal logic says that the net gain should had been zero and that the additional distance traveled that way should allow the other guy who turns normally to move faster instead of slower.
    Cutting up and back down gets gravity acting in the turn and thus reduces the radius, the tighter turn means they get back on your tail faster than you can do your horizontal turn, making it seem like they've gained energy when they've actually just lost less energy than you did and had time to recover some of what they lost.

    It's actual plane physics too, not just some BS game physics quirk.
    Think of it like a pendulum. If you pull it to the side and just drop it so it swings the same path over and over again, it will keep swinging like that for ages.  However if you make it trace some kind of orbit, it will quickly lose energy and return to rest; the less elliptical the orbit, the faster it returns to rest.
  • mf_shro0m
    2271 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Hawxxeye wrote: »
    (Quote)
    My footage is clearly from Breakthrough though(Quote)

    Actually I do think that the AAs should be balanced around the assumption that a team might not be having competent dogfighters.
    Each time that I attempt to fight one of those superpilots I find they got metagaming knowledge on the unintuitive plane physics of this game that I could not even dream off.
    For example how the hell does instead of looping horizontally does moving upwards and then back downwards the loop results in a net gain in energy? My internal logic says that the net gain should had been zero and that the additional distance traveled that way should allow the other guy who turns normally to move faster instead of slower.

    I only watched the first half

    If they balanced AAs and planes with that assumption in mind then average and rookie pilots will just get mauled. If they go towards the objective the AAs and FFs will obliterate them and if they try to resupply the pro(s) on the other team will obliterate them. They’ll have nowhere to go and will just have to quit and unless AAs get a drastic buff like having their range doubled or trebled those super pilots will still somehow manage to bomb them from where they can’t return fire
  • mf_shro0m
    2271 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    (Quote)
    Cutting up and back down gets gravity acting in the turn and thus reduces the radius, the tighter turn means they get back on your tail faster than you can do your horizontal turn, making it seem like they've gained energy when they've actually just lost less energy than you did and had time to recover some of what they lost.

    It's actual plane physics too, not just some BS game physics quirk.
    Think of it like a pendulum. If you pull it to the side and just drop it so it swings the same path over and over again, it will keep swinging like that for ages.  However if you make it trace some kind of orbit, it will quickly lose energy and return to rest; the less elliptical the orbit, the faster it returns to rest.

    I’m trying that. Cheers!
  • Hawxxeye
    6714 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited November 2019
    Cutting up and back down gets gravity acting in the turn and thus reduces the radius, the tighter turn means they get back on your tail faster than you can do your horizontal turn, making it seem like they've gained energy when they've actually just lost less energy than you did and had time to recover some of what they lost.

    It's actual plane physics too, not just some BS game physics quirk.
    Think of it like a pendulum. If you pull it to the side and just drop it so it swings the same path over and over again, it will keep swinging like that for ages.  However if you make it trace some kind of orbit, it will quickly lose energy and return to rest; the less elliptical the orbit, the faster it returns to rest.
    Thanks for the explanation I guess.
    This would had been so much easier to understand if the game was consistent about obeying the laws of physics instead of being a mix of physics (gravity turns) and Frostbite magic (the floaty parts and laser MGs with no drop or drag).

    Post edited by Hawxxeye on
  • SmokeD_BabooN
    490 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Just came from a game I joined late, pilot was going about 16-0, our side where stuck at A-B which they took on Pacific Storm and we had a 160 tickets left. The pilot was not top score, but it was clear he had mastered the bombs because all our tanks were either getting exploded, or too afraid to move on the next area because they faced tanks, and well dug in infantry. The problem was, the plane as soon as he had the bombs, would move on a tank, I took a hit that left me with like 3 health. If anything else just looked at me, I'd be dead too. Another took me to like 11 health and blew the depot. 

    Our pilots were up there too, but it did not stop this going on, and the thing is, it happens so quick and there is nothing I can do, the fact of trying to face the rest of the side seems stupid when our ground forces with the dreaded FF can't or are not warding off the planes. Moving on three enemy tanks and a defensive position with these kinda pilots flying against you. This is where it shines how much we need REAL mobile AA and fixed AA that works available on any plane map for any stage of Breakthrough.  
    No one can save you when in a bad team. Usually people are scared if they see a pilot going 16-0, and I noticed myself that there are few that try to dogfight them, or play with AA /FF. I have done it many times, alone, b if I hop in the plane I will always take with me 2 enemy planes unless they are all very good. Eye for an eye. But even tho I main pilot, I am a tanker as well. So on Pacific I ve seen your scenario as well. Behind A flag is an AA towards carrier and a resupply point. A flag has an AA too but it is limited. Anyhow in order to bomb those flags they got to strafe ground. The AA  towards carrier(it s on the beach) defends A without problems and B flag you gonna have 20-30% hitmarkers on planes. If they strafe in between A and B again success. So you can actually defend yourself from planes, you should worry more about hiding tanks across the pond and bushwackers. As a tanker if your team is not pushing you are dead, and both IWO JIMA and Pacific storm are a death trap.


  • SirBobdk
    4702 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member

     The AA  towards carrier(it s on the beach) defends A without problems and B flag you gonna have 20-30% hitmarkers on planes. If they strafe in between A and B again success. So you can actually defend yourself from planes,

    AA is easy to destroy with the 20mm gun. You may need 2 runs to do it, but most of the times the AA will loose imo. Think I destroyed the AA on A on Iwo 10-15 times in a row yesterday as US pilot.
  • spychodelics
    266 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Vehicles should be precious, but limited, you want to keep it up as long as possible otherwise you need to wait some time till you can spawn a new vehicle. 
    Then Vehicles shouldnt be so easy to kill. 
  • SmokeD_BabooN
    490 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    SirBobdk said:

     The AA  towards carrier(it s on the beach) defends A without problems and B flag you gonna have 20-30% hitmarkers on planes. If they strafe in between A and B again success. So you can actually defend yourself from planes,

    AA is easy to destroy with the 20mm gun. You may need 2 runs to do it, but most of the times the AA will loose imo. Think I destroyed the AA on A on Iwo 10-15 times in a row yesterday as US pilot.
    We were talking about Pacific Storm not Iwo Jima. They must be really bad to lose, 40mm shreds planes, but it is no wonder people generally cry over things they do not understand.
  • Hawxxeye
    6714 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    SirBobdk said:

     The AA  towards carrier(it s on the beach) defends A without problems and B flag you gonna have 20-30% hitmarkers on planes. If they strafe in between A and B again success. So you can actually defend yourself from planes,

    AA is easy to destroy with the 20mm gun. You may need 2 runs to do it, but most of the times the AA will loose imo. Think I destroyed the AA on A on Iwo 10-15 times in a row yesterday as US pilot.
    We were talking about Pacific Storm not Iwo Jima. They must be really bad to lose, 40mm shreds planes, but it is no wonder people generally cry over things they do not understand.
    I have yet to lose 1vs1 against a 40mm AA in the new maps head on unless I mess up my aiming.
    Remember that like 99% the people who use the AA are bad in that they advertise that they are inside it by shooting too soon/too late and alerting me to their presence.
    The stationary AA is not scary, it is an invitation to a kill.
  • zDupyD0Mordyzaur
    9 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Fliegerfaust is good, but Panzerfaust needs a huge buff, cuz it does nothing to tanks
Sign In or Register to comment.