Weekly BF

Campy tank playstyle vs Mobile tank playstyle in BFV

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Hawxxeye
5956 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
Using tanks in the pacific map made me feel more than ever how much being a mobile and rather aggressive tank is disincentivized in BFV.
.
The turrets are almost not allowed to aim downwards which means that nearby enemies at a lower elevation require a lot of repositioning to hit.
Every anomaly in the terrain while moving is very strongly affecting the aim of the tank.
The damage taken by enemies is very quickly disabling parts of the tank making its life way harder, especially while in a fight.
The enemy AT soldiers are able to very easily peekaboo at enemy vehicles, hiding behind bulletproof and explosionproof terrain. Now we even have explosion stopping nonburnable plants to boot!
The paznerfaust flies like a SMAW at the ranges where one needs to go to help capturing an objective or to prevent its capture.
.
Meanwhile the tank that decides to find a relatively safe vantage point can with relative safety take potshots at any other tanks and infantry, he does not have issues with aiming cause he  has already positioned the vehicle at a favorable angle.
He already has a better grasp of how much leading he needs to hit that distant target who exposed itself from previous shots.
If he gets damage and disables he has a lot less ground to cover to retreat to a safe heaven to recover.
HE has a long range spec that makes the enemy tanks feel like if they got railguned
.
.
While I was leveling the new tanks, the difference  between trying to actively contribute to the objective and being a full metal sniper is crazy. I really wish  DICE could reconsider sacrificing some authenticity for the sake of fun gameplay.

Comments

  • DukeSan27
    1189 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    I am trying out this campy new play-style with HMG Tanks. As of now, I don't care about PTFO too much. Just enjoying farming Infantry and the busting the occasional Pilots. After an year of dull game play in Tanks, its fun to payback.

    Occasionally I will flank and kill half the enemy team.

    At least until HMG gets nerfed...


  • Hawxxeye
    5956 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    DukeSan27 said:
    I am trying out this campy new play-style with HMG Tanks. As of now, I don't care about PTFO too much. Just enjoying farming Infantry and the busting the occasional Pilots. After an year of dull game play in Tanks, its fun to payback.

    Occasionally I will flank and kill half the enemy team.

    At least until HMG gets nerfed...


    I hope they will not touch the damage it can do to tanks if you manage to get behind them and close up


  • barnesalmighty2
    1555 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Hawxxeye wrote: »
    (Quote)

    I hope they will not touch the damage it can do to tanks if you manage to get behind them and close up

    That's nasty, I'm off to level some tanks.
  • MBT_Layzan
    1605 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited November 8
    Hawxxeye said:
    Using tanks in the pacific map made me feel more than ever how much being a mobile and rather aggressive tank is disincentivized in BFV.
    .
    The turrets are almost not allowed to aim downwards which means that nearby enemies at a lower elevation require a lot of repositioning to hit.
    Every anomaly in the terrain while moving is very strongly affecting the aim of the tank.
    The damage taken by enemies is very quickly disabling parts of the tank making its life way harder, especially while in a fight.
    The enemy AT soldiers are able to very easily peekaboo at enemy vehicles, hiding behind bulletproof and explosionproof terrain. Now we even have explosion stopping nonburnable plants to boot!
    The paznerfaust flies like a SMAW at the ranges where one needs to go to help capturing an objective or to prevent its capture.
    .
    Meanwhile the tank that decides to find a relatively safe vantage point can with relative safety take potshots at any other tanks and infantry, he does not have issues with aiming cause he  has already positioned the vehicle at a favorable angle.
    He already has a better grasp of how much leading he needs to hit that distant target who exposed itself from previous shots.
    If he gets damage and disables he has a lot less ground to cover to retreat to a safe heaven to recover.
    HE has a long range spec that makes the enemy tanks feel like if they got railguned
    .
    .
    While I was leveling the new tanks, the difference  between trying to actively contribute to the objective and being a full metal sniper is crazy. I really wish  DICE could reconsider sacrificing some authenticity for the sake of fun gameplay.

    All spot on. 

    To add to this:

    Now there are parts of breakthrough where you don't get access to a depot until the next section is taken. Which means you can't afford to waste rounds. Or the depot is so far away, like really far to a point I've been caught out and end up out of bounds racing to not get blown up because all of a sudden the area just changed up. 

    I get sick of taking disable after disable instantly often with no way of knowing let alone evading planes. There are times the same plane just keeps coming back and there is no cover on iwo jima. I wish the top MG didn't expose the user. So what about RL, in RL planes actually weren't that effective as in totally destroying small armoured moving targets, they just weren't that accurate. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7t2cRZTv14o

    At least we could fire back like in past BF games, I'm not looking to take planes out unless they are damaged but with decent aim, we should be able to fend off planes somehow. Because as it stands, you can't do nothing to the plane that knows how to fly, and you can't engage anything else either because all the damage and disables. So you just sit there in constant repair mode hoping something else deals with it. You just about get it all done and ten seconds later your disabled all over again.   

    Tanks get disabled too easy in this game by infantry. It's almost every other infantry round. Tanks should only start getting disabled after they lose so much health from infantry AT friable weapons. This is a 64 player game with infantry that can spawn off each other, revive from tank rounds to the face, give ammo, spot, and even solo a tank. Disables need to be reduced on tanks.  
  • Hawxxeye
    5956 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Hawxxeye wrote: »
    Using tanks in the pacific map made me feel more than ever how much being a mobile and rather aggressive tank is disincentivized in BFV..The turrets are almost not allowed to aim downwards which means that nearby enemies at a lower elevation require a lot of repositioning to hit.
    Every anomaly in the terrain while moving is very strongly affecting the aim of the tank.
    The damage taken by enemies is very quickly disabling parts of the tank making its life way harder, especially while in a fight.The enemy AT soldiers are able to very easily peekaboo at enemy vehicles, hiding behind bulletproof and explosionproof terrain. Now we even have explosion stopping nonburnable plants to boot!The paznerfaust flies like a SMAW at the ranges where one needs to go to help capturing an objective or to prevent its capture..Meanwhile the tank that decides to find a relatively safe vantage point can with relative safety take potshots at any other tanks and infantry, he does not have issues with aiming cause he  has already positioned the vehicle at a favorable angle.He already has a better grasp of how much leading he needs to hit that distant target who exposed itself from previous shots.If he gets damage and disables he has a lot less ground to cover to retreat to a safe heaven to recover.HE has a long range spec that makes the enemy tanks feel like if they got railguned
    ..While I was leveling the new tanks, the difference  between trying to actively contribute to the objective and being a full metal sniper is crazy. I really wish  DICE could reconsider sacrificing some authenticity for the sake of fun gameplay.

    This is my experience too. I'm pretty much staying behind all infantry teammates and stalking other tanks, rarely ever going past my teams half of the map.

    I'm an average tanker but I remember in BF4 how much fun and effective it was to play a little more aggressively as a tanker.

    Don't get me started on the terrain geometry screwing up tank movement and aiming.
    I think this video highlights how much a tank struggles with all those Vietcong assaults.


  • IDirtY_SeCreT
    541 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Hawxxeye said:
    While I was leveling the new tanks, the difference  between trying to actively contribute to the objective and being a full metal sniper is crazy. I really wish  DICE could reconsider sacrificing some authenticity for the sake of fun gameplay.

    The tanks are like this since release and I say, DICE wont change that.
    1. They don't know how to balance/fix vehicles -> blacksreen bug....
    2. This version of DICE either hates or doesn't like vehicles
    3. and they are all in on authenticity when it comes to tanks but give a **** about it when it comes to everything else.
  • M_Rat13
    1285 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    DukeSan27 said:
    I am trying out this campy new play-style with HMG Tanks. As of now, I don't care about PTFO too much. Just enjoying farming Infantry and the busting the occasional Pilots. After an year of dull game play in Tanks, its fun to payback.

    Occasionally I will flank and kill half the enemy team.

    At least until HMG gets nerfed...



    The Ka-Mi at least, thanks to the engine upgrade, can actually flank. You still don't want to get too close, but popping up behind the enemy, then mowing them down before retreating, is so satisfying.
  • xeNizKing
    450 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited November 9
    Hawxxeye said:
    Using tanks in the pacific map made me feel more than ever how much being a mobile and rather aggressive tank is disincentivized in BFV.
    .
    The turrets are almost not allowed to aim downwards which means that nearby enemies at a lower elevation require a lot of repositioning to hit.
    Every anomaly in the terrain while moving is very strongly affecting the aim of the tank.
    The damage taken by enemies is very quickly disabling parts of the tank making its life way harder, especially while in a fight.
    The enemy AT soldiers are able to very easily peekaboo at enemy vehicles, hiding behind bulletproof and explosionproof terrain. Now we even have explosion stopping nonburnable plants to boot!
    The paznerfaust flies like a SMAW at the ranges where one needs to go to help capturing an objective or to prevent its capture.
    .
    Meanwhile the tank that decides to find a relatively safe vantage point can with relative safety take potshots at any other tanks and infantry, he does not have issues with aiming cause he  has already positioned the vehicle at a favorable angle.
    He already has a better grasp of how much leading he needs to hit that distant target who exposed itself from previous shots.
    If he gets damage and disables he has a lot less ground to cover to retreat to a safe heaven to recover.
    HE has a long range spec that makes the enemy tanks feel like if they got railguned
    .
    .
    While I was leveling the new tanks, the difference  between trying to actively contribute to the objective and being a full metal sniper is crazy. I really wish  DICE could reconsider sacrificing some authenticity for the sake of fun gameplay.

    Honestly, this is what happens when the devs cater to new players who complain about vehicles and planes. They should be listening to the CORE community and not the people they're trying to steal from CoD. I understand why they do it, its business but since launch I have felt one thing "Hey guys, this is DICE - Yeah we dont like vehicles anymore, you understand? Okay good." 

    As I have said before but the bloated assault kit is a testament to that. They really need to do a complete class re-balance and split up the explosives and get them outside of one class alone. On top of that they should bring back the engineer class let them have some of the medic and assault and support weapons, give dynamite to the recons (like in previous games prior to BF1), panzerfaust stays with assault and support keep their AT mines. 

    Like really, it cannot be that hard for them to do. This is the whole grand arching thing, if life is going to get better for tanks then other things other than tanks need to be changed because the biggest problem of infantry vs vehicles is one class is doing too much too easily and I am sure many recon players would agree with that too (hello assaults with 3x scopes on 10 different carbines that outperform most guns in the game). All of this contributes to what you have mentioned and tanks should be feared by infantry not turned too mush within seconds, they're freaking tanks. 

    I think the worst part about it is the critical damage system on tanks too simply because of how easy (even with reinforced tracks,engine,turret etc) it is to critically disable a tank in some form it pushes inexperienced players into camping, making it worse is the fact that emergency repair is the only viable utility slot we can pick if we want to survive (same with planes). We either pick ER or we dont drive or fly because repair tracks or engine or wings for planes is so damned bad that it isn't even worth slotting let alone the fact the default repair time is god awful.

    and for the love of god someone PLEASE push dice into making tank weight actually matter and terrain interacting properly with vehicles because I am about to lose my sanity if I get flipped one more time by a freaking pebble.
  • Khronikos
    2146 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    It's honestly what killed part of the game for me. This is basically tank tether the game. I hate it totally compared to BF1 in every way. After playing some Pacific, which are decent maps and fun on certain modes, I have to say I am basically back to meh. A big meh from for BFV. BF1 was so much better.
  • dcs500
    1440 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    They made the game so that two tanks take 20 minutes to destroy each other but a single infantry player can destroy one in seconds, no suprise that tanks are being used at range.
    I'll go into an obcective if I have infantry to back me up, more often than not they are too busy lying in bushes with MMG's or sniping though.
  • DingoKillr
    3636 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    xeNizKing wrote: »
    (Quote)
    Honestly, this is what happens when the devs cater to new players who complain about vehicles and planes. They should be listening to the CORE community and not the people they're trying to steal from CoD. I understand why they do it, its business but since launch I have felt one thing "Hey guys, this is DICE - Yeah we dont like vehicles anymore, you understand? Okay good." 

    As I have said before but the bloated assault kit is a testament to that. They really need to do a complete class re-balance and split up the explosives and get them outside of one class alone. On top of that they should bring back the engineer class let them have some of the medic and assault and support weapons, give dynamite to the recons (like in previous games prior to BF1), panzerfaust stays with assault and support keep their AT mines. 

    Like really, it cannot be that hard for them to do. This is the whole grand arching thing, if life is going to get better for tanks then other things other than tanks need to be changed because the biggest problem of infantry vs vehicles is one class is doing too much too easily and I am sure many recon players would agree with that too (hello assaults with 3x scopes on 10 different carbines that outperform most guns in the game). All of this contributes to what you have mentioned and tanks should be feared by infantry not turned too mush within seconds, they're freaking tanks. 

    I think the worst part about it is the critical damage system on tanks too simply because of how easy (even with reinforced tracks,engine,turret etc) it is to critically disable a tank in some form it pushes inexperienced players into camping, making it worse is the fact that emergency repair is the only viable utility slot we can pick if we want to survive (same with planes). We either pick ER or we dont drive or fly because repair tracks or engine or wings for planes is so damned bad that it isn't even worth slotting let alone the fact the default repair time is god awful.

    and for the love of god someone PLEASE push dice into making tank weight actually matter and terrain interacting properly with vehicles because I am about to lose my sanity if I get flipped one more time by a freaking pebble.

    It not new players, it is infantry focused players. The panzerfaust was 3 hit kill and every Assault can carry up to 3 that should never have been allowed in the first place. When Assault has the easiest guns encouraging more to use.

    Here is the kicker small splash makes it harder for many tanks to counter and tank v tank takes more shells.
  • VincentNZ
    3172 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Hawxxeye said:
    Using tanks in the pacific map made me feel more than ever how much being a mobile and rather aggressive tank is disincentivized in BFV.
    .
    The turrets are almost not allowed to aim downwards which means that nearby enemies at a lower elevation require a lot of repositioning to hit.
    Every anomaly in the terrain while moving is very strongly affecting the aim of the tank.
    The damage taken by enemies is very quickly disabling parts of the tank making its life way harder, especially while in a fight.
    The enemy AT soldiers are able to very easily peekaboo at enemy vehicles, hiding behind bulletproof and explosionproof terrain. Now we even have explosion stopping nonburnable plants to boot!
    The paznerfaust flies like a SMAW at the ranges where one needs to go to help capturing an objective or to prevent its capture.
    .
    Meanwhile the tank that decides to find a relatively safe vantage point can with relative safety take potshots at any other tanks and infantry, he does not have issues with aiming cause he  has already positioned the vehicle at a favorable angle.
    He already has a better grasp of how much leading he needs to hit that distant target who exposed itself from previous shots.
    If he gets damage and disables he has a lot less ground to cover to retreat to a safe heaven to recover.
    HE has a long range spec that makes the enemy tanks feel like if they got railguned
    .
    .
    While I was leveling the new tanks, the difference  between trying to actively contribute to the objective and being a full metal sniper is crazy. I really wish  DICE could reconsider sacrificing some authenticity for the sake of fun gameplay.

    Your base premise is correct, I have a couple of issues with your analysis though, especially reagrding the Assault class.

    1. Yes the turret angle is horribly unflexible from a vertical POV. However the new maps use small angles for elevation and have less clutter than old maps (just look at Hamada).
    2. Yes disabling is a rather random thing. Once you received an amount of damage on a part, you are disabled which multiplies the issues the general tank gameplay has. I would just get rid of it, or put in the BF3/4 disable system.
    3. While you can peekaboo as Assault, this is no way new to the franchise. Fact is, the maps have way less cover than in BF3/4. The amount of destructible cover has surely increased, too. You also have terrain deformation now.
    4. The PF does not fly like a SMAW. The SMAW and basically all other BF4 launchers are able to hit at up to 200m with ease. The effective range of the PF is 75m. Yes, you in particular have hit a tank at 100m, I do not count this as your regular play. Added to that, the launchers have extreme spread, as can be seen on symthic. As Addendum you can have 7 launchers that deal more damage in BF4 and do so consistently vs. 2-3 that deal inconsistent damage at lower ranges.
    .
    The incentive is the same as when playing sniper, there is no cost involved in staying back, you got massive health, the enemy can not really reach you or even care about you. Any buff to them will not primarily make them go right in there but just enhance their sniper capability.
    As will any nerf to the Assault kit. This will just make all tanks less vulnerable. This is just like the BA recon. People want them buffed so they can engage in objective ranges. Thing is they already can if they use the correct weapon. Any buff to BAs, like sweetspots, increased velocity, more damage etc.. will just increase the impact of the snipers, not the aggressive recons.
    You want tanks to do better at objective ranges? Easy. Make them have synergy with infantry and their gunners. Give remote controlled gunner positions, give gunners specs like motion scan, flares, an indirect fire launcher, 3D spotting with Q, more points when killing a player that has damaged a vehicle, more points for repairing. Basically anything that directly makes teammates interact with the tank driver directly or indirectly.
  • DukeSan27
    1189 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    The big problem I see currently is the nerfed coaxial MG. They just become pea shooters. 

    The coaxial MGs should have at least half damage potential of the LVT’s HMG. Something like 26 damage per bullet upto 50m, giving 4btk at that range.
  • jroggs
    551 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    The coaxial MG nerf is mind-boggling. These are supposed to be mounted MMGs, but they deal damage approximate to BB guns. They should be 4-5 BTK, not 10+ or whatever it is now.

    Iwo Jima Breakthrough is pretty bad. Once the Japanese side gets tanks, they can just sit on knolls and fire across the entire battlefield in use. The only issue is positioning the tank on a stable decline, but that's not too hard and then you're pretty much omnipotent artillery. (This may be less true as more Shermans get beefed up with heavy guns and HEAT-Ts. Assaults can't touch you, though.)

    Pac Storm, on the other hand, is pretty fun for tanking. There's a nice risk-reward to pushing objectives. There is an issue with tank-sniping, but infantry are slowly going to learn to stop presenting themselves on the sides of mounds in view of tanks. They do still need to fix the damned see-saw effect, but there's a reason terrain matters for tanks and it's fine for that to be represented in some fashion, such as awkward angles where infantry can evade targeting and difficult movement in some areas. I also wish the pre-spawned tanks adopted your specialization progress instead of being Level 0.

    A lot of the other stuff mentioned here is the same-old-same-old from past threads on the subject, so I'll pass on rehashing that for now.
  • mf_shro0m
    1666 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Hawxxeye wrote: »
    (Quote)

    I hope they will not touch the damage it can do to tanks if you manage to get behind them and close up

    That’s actually disgusting lol
  • M_Rat13
    1285 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Hawxxeye wrote: »
    (Quote)

    I hope they will not touch the damage it can do to tanks if you manage to get behind them and close up

    That’s actually disgusting lol

    The fact a tank is a threat?
  • V2Face
    2664 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    From someone who plays infantry mostly and tanks on occasion. The tanking in this game is abysmal. The game actively rewards stationary play overall. The ammo attrition ruins pushes and the glitchy terrain makes assault players invincible to bad positioning. The game for the past 3 releases have been geared more to infantry combat.
  • jroggs
    551 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Hawxxeye said:
    I hope they will not touch the damage it can do to tanks if you manage to get behind them and close up
    As long as that can only work on the rear, I'm cool with it. The HMG should otherwise be capable of disables but only very negligible chassis damage.
  • Hawxxeye
    5956 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    jroggs said:
    Hawxxeye said:
    I hope they will not touch the damage it can do to tanks if you manage to get behind them and close up
    As long as that can only work on the rear, I'm cool with it. The HMG should otherwise be capable of disables but only very negligible chassis damage.
    It has a such a damage dropoff that it basically have the effective range of a shotgun that can only do enough damage from the rear
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