5.2 TTK change [Megathread]

Comments

  • Trokey66
    9160 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited November 2019
    BF1's TTK2 didn't increase the number of players at all.
    At best, it arrested the exodus and as an aside, there was a marked increase in bipodded LMGs.
  • 19Romulus84
    110 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member

    Extending TTK is a terrible idea. DO NOT EXTEND TTK, because playing it very well will slow down the game and hurt it. I have 800 hours in BFV and as TTK extends I stop playing this game. Leave it TTK which is alone because it is good.
  • THECOMMANDER66
    127 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Just rename the game to what u really want it to be Dice. BFV: Woke Swedish Paintball Man Bun Edition.
  • VOLBANKER
    1718 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited November 2019
    I believe it is 100% correct that the gunplay is one of the major factors behind BFVs currently small playerbase. Why? Well, I played since pre-launch and it was painfully obvious in the days after the actual release that many newcomers were in shock when entering and playing BFV for the first time. You would see clusters of players standing together in total apathy, being afraid to move even a single inch because doing so would mean getting shot dead in a split second. And disregard the TTD bug, I’m talking about the totally normal TTD/TTK.

    I felt the exact same apathy when starting out playing BFV, and I too was standing in a corner, not knowing how on Earth I should get into playing this new BF game which I had been looking forward to for months.

    Unlike many, I stuck around and used Spectate to try and learn from the good players out there by watching how they played.
  • CnConrad
    1195 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    VOLBANKER wrote: »
    I believe it is 100% correct that the gunplay is one of the major factors behind BFVs currently small playerbase. Why? Well, I played since pre-launch and it was painfully obvious in the days after the actual release that many newcomers were in shock when entering and playing BFV for the first time. You would see clusters of players standing together in total apathy, being afraid to move even a single inch because doing so would mean getting shot dead in a split second. And disregard the TTD bug, I’m talking about the totally normal TTD/TTK.

    I felt the exact same apathy when starting out playing BFV, and I too was standing in a corner, not knowing how on Earth I should get into playing this new BF game which I had been looking forward to for months.

    Unlike many, I stuck around and used Spectate to try and learn from the good players out there by watching how they played.

    Please explain why bf3 was popular. It had as fast or faster ttk than bf5 does.

    All the guns shot as fast or faster and did the same or higher damage.

    Proof one of the most common guns used in past bf games.

    M416:

    Bfbc2: 700rpm 6 shot kill up to 20m 7 shot beyond

    BF3: 750rpm 4 shot kill up to 10m 5 shot kill 10-40m 6 shot kill beyond 40m

    Bf4: 750rpm 5 shot kill up to 35m 6 shot kill beyond 40m

    We are using the m1907 for the historical games since it had a pretty similar rof to the m416.

    Bf1: 300rpm 3 shot kill up to 38m 4 shot kill 38m to 54m and a 5 shot kill beyond 54m

    Bf5: 770rpm 4 shots to kill up to 10m, 5 shots to kill 10-50m, 6 shots to kill beyond 50m.



    It looks like the damage mirrors BF3 pretty closely. And bf3 was one of the most popular bf games to date.
  • BL4CK_W4LL_
    803 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    I do not approve of the ttk changes. I was just ready to get back into this game. Maybe drop 30 dollars on some elite soldiers. But if you're going to ruin every gun with a small magazine... I'm out.

    Only changes I could see to fix ttk would be rate of fire reduction across the board, or removal of close range headshot bonuses with a stronger damage drop off at 25+ meters. Affecting not headshot damage pre 25meters is going to turn every small magazine gun into a must reload after each kill. And if this was call of duty with slight of hand it wouldn't be so bad, but it's not.

    Oh btw im pretty sure call of duty has faster ttk and people ate still flocking to it.
  • PvtJohnTowle
    1036 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited November 2019
    The GetGoodGuy spoke about this change a year ago and you could probably just change the date and his video would still be relevant.. LOL

    And no I won't be dropping anymore "BOINS" on your new Pacific Elites now that these changes are being implemented next month. Had you not decided on these ridiculous changes (Spotting and TTK) I would have bought both new skins as a pair. You lose out, not me. 


  • PvtJohnTowle
    1036 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited November 2019
    I think private games launch alongside the TTK changes? 

    All Dice need to do is allow servers to be set to the current games settings. That's it.

    Those who feel strongly about keeping the game as it is will have the same experience except the servers won't be full of newbies. There's no way new players are going to start by getting stuck into Private Games, they'll stick to the main game first.

    While over in the main game new players will hopefully enjoy the game, learn the ropes and in turn stick around and put a little cash into the 'Skin Trade'. 
    V becomes a success and the profits in turn go into justifying more investment in V in terms of content which benefits us all.

    Either way the new system hasn't even launched yet, so let's just see what happens.

    Good to see the Battlefield community is staying strong and not turning into hysterical drama queens, good job lads.
     
    We don't know that we will be able to set the TTK in the settings for Community Games (no longer called Private Games, get with the program LOL) If we are able to set a hardcore mode that would suit some players.  I would like to be able to change via settings to Hardcore  ( OHK to body) , TTK 1.0 (current) and  an option to set to TTK 3.0 (Patch 5.2)  which is the one coming in December which will be the default setting.   Ability to turn on or off spotting mechanic with further options to show what type of spotting is allowed (no flare gun, no spotting scope or plane or tank spotting abilities)  would be ideal. You could have OHK but spotting like it is now.  A mix and match ability if you understand me..  If they have those abilities then I can see ways around this ridiculous change as I will spend my days on custom Community Servers that suit my playstyle. 

    However, if they don't allow Community Games Servers to change TTK and Spotting probably time to pack up and go home for me anyway. This is just beyond a joke. I have been playing this game for more time than most people have been married. Maybe it is time to get a divorce
  • JedMosley81
    74 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited November 2019
    Bottom line is a lot of casuals cant handle the the fast ttk the way it is now. I have at least 20 friends who immediately went back to BF1 or 4 because they could not hack it. I didnt like it at first, then adjusted. Now I'm content the way it is...we are the minority
  • SmileAsTheyDie
    502 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Trokey66 said:
    BF1's TTK2 didn't increase the number of players at all.
    At best, it arrested the exodus and as an aside, there was a marked increase in bipodded LMGs.
    No. I remember watching it at the time and it had no impact on the population. This was like 16 months into the game, the population was pretty steady at that point and there wasn't much drop off leading up to the TTK changes and it didn't increase the population or stopped any decrease.

    The increase in bipod LMG use was one of the negative consequences of the change
  • ackers75
    2652 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Apparently it’s due to new players coming into the game and then finding it too hard and either quitting or getting a refund.
    They are obviously struggling with player retention and doing this just in time for the Xmas period.

  • viper63x
    333 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield V Member
    i feel like these ttk changes are a waste of resources, when you could be focusing on other things.
  • THECOMMANDER66
    127 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    You know, if everybody had the strength, you could empty their servers pretty quick. They’ll listen then. But I suspect most of you MUST turn the game on no matter how many times Dice rubs their butthole right on your mouth. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
  • PvtJohnTowle
    1036 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited November 2019
    CnConrad said:
    VOLBANKER wrote: »
    I believe it is 100% correct that the gunplay is one of the major factors behind BFVs currently small playerbase. Why? Well, I played since pre-launch and it was painfully obvious in the days after the actual release that many newcomers were in shock when entering and playing BFV for the first time. You would see clusters of players standing together in total apathy, being afraid to move even a single inch because doing so would mean getting shot dead in a split second. And disregard the TTD bug, I’m talking about the totally normal TTD/TTK.

    I felt the exact same apathy when starting out playing BFV, and I too was standing in a corner, not knowing how on Earth I should get into playing this new BF game which I had been looking forward to for months.

    Unlike many, I stuck around and used Spectate to try and learn from the good players out there by watching how they played.

    Please explain why bf3 was popular. It had as fast or faster ttk than bf5 does.

    All the guns shot as fast or faster and did the same or higher damage.

    Proof one of the most common guns used in past bf games.

    M416:

    Bfbc2: 700rpm 6 shot kill up to 20m 7 shot beyond

    BF3: 750rpm 4 shot kill up to 10m 5 shot kill 10-40m 6 shot kill beyond 40m

    Bf4: 750rpm 5 shot kill up to 35m 6 shot kill beyond 40m

    We are using the m1907 for the historical games since it had a pretty similar rof to the m416.

    Bf1: 300rpm 3 shot kill up to 38m 4 shot kill 38m to 54m and a 5 shot kill beyond 54m

    Bf5: 770rpm 4 shots to kill up to 10m, 5 shots to kill 10-50m, 6 shots to kill beyond 50m.



    It looks like the damage mirrors BF3 pretty closely. And bf3 was one of the most popular bf games to date. . 
    Maybe now but it is not clear what this will be after the changes are implemented. Going by your calculations we will be worse off than BF3 was ever. The thread is about the changes not what we currently have. There is no point discussing the current TTK which is just fine by the majority of players out there and Youtubers it doesn't need "fixing"  Saying the M416 has "as fast" TTK means nothing and pointless. So what if it is the same now?  It's not going to matter when the Patch 5.2 drops. Then you compare the M415 with the M1907 based upon the ROF being similar. So what?  It makes no difference to the fact the TTK is going to be slowed and most of the weapons we use will require an extra bullet to kill , unless you are sniper or bolt action carbine or anti-materiel rifle (boys and panzerbusche) 
  • filthmcnasty
    851 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Bumstag1 wrote: »
    TTK is being increased on range. First question: who wanted this? Where did you get the feedback from? This is the only mechanic you got right from the beginning, and it's most probably the reason you had a chance to regain the playerbase with the Pacific.
    Currently TTK is at its finest, even the recently added pacific guns shake up the meta greatly. How about you focus on more pressing issues?
    Like the random shake you get when you are standing still with a tank and zooming in. This bug has been in the game since the beginning, yet no mentions of it.
    Or a more recent issue, the Fliegerfaust meta. It is insanely overpowered, and it only saddens me to see that you have no intention to significantly nerf it. Also, letting the defenders to board the attackers' ship on Pacific Storm Breakthrough in the first sector is probably one of the most pressing issues right now. They not only have access to an ammo supply station, but they are also in perfect range to destroy planes that just spawned in. 
    The third and final thing I want to mention is the lack of a team balancer. I kind of got used to playing in unbalanced teams over and over again, but come on, it's been a year, it's time to take a look into this.

    Once again, this TTK change is a mistake. DICE has already tried to change the TTK once not long after launch, and as far as I can remember with the same thing in mind: decreasing the skill gap. It even saddens me more to see how massive this TTK change will be, since the resources dedicated to this change (which will be inevitably reversed in January) could have been used to bring more content (maps, weapons, redesigned specialization trees for allied and axis vehicles, cosmetics) to this game.

    The only thing that has been OP this entire time is the sticky dynamite. Fix that, then the Fliegerfaust. I'm so sick of camping in tanks because 1 lone assault can wreck my tank
  • FF_smart27
    1998 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Likely a lot of data from the trial as there was at release. Surveys, refunds, in game monitoring. Things like that may lead them to believe most players aren't digging the ttk, and/or is causing netcode failure.
    So why is 99% of all comments on Twitter, Reddit, YouTube, BF forums are negative? Could it be....that community does not want to see longer TTK?
    Because the community has been taken over by noobs!
    They tremble at the thought that they will have to get off their belly and move closer to the objective and earn their kills! They see their biggest fear becoming reality...they will no longer be able to hide in their dark corners because they will be instantly spotted!

    Dice is pi$$ing on the noob parade and i love it 
  • MusicienElegant
    232 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    CnConrad wrote: »
    Hello, after reconsideration of the data - or lack thereof - and the facts, I am looking forward to 5.2. Why? DICE aren't directly changing the TTK. They gave us a few graphs from the most popular weapons that make the TTK look longer. For all we know about these changes, the graphs could match other weapons in the game now. If that is the case, the TTK isn't changing, those weapons are just getting nerfed.

    We don't know what less used weapons will become. The TTK for those weapons might be getting shorter, and because we lack that data, I can't conclude that the TTK is getting longer across the board.

    There is an issue with the less used weapons. Take the Thompson vs the EMP for example. The Thompson has a fast RoF, high magazine, and great damage model over range. This makes the weapon useful in close quarters and mid-range. The EMP has a lower damage model, a slower RoF, and a smaller magazine. This makes the weapon obsolete in close quarters because it just isn't useful there. The lower recoil is supposed to make it useful at mid-range, but the Thompson can still trump it due to its overall better balanced stats.

    This issue is what 5.2 is attempting to tackle. Weapons like the EMP and MP40 should be more useful at the ranges they're supposed to be good at, instead of getting trumped by the Thompson.

    This isn't like last December where the TTK is getting longer across the board. The announcement admitted to needing to balance each weapon one by one. This means that the TTK could be getting shorter or longer, depending upon the weapon. Yet we lack the proper data to conclude that the TTK is changing.

    And, balance changes aside, we're getting Community Games and Wake Island. So I am looking forward to 5.2. Please stop pressuring DICE to not change the TTK. We barely even have the full picture as to what they're doing.

    Thanks for the updates!

    🙎🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️

    If they made the M1A1 an 8HK at 50m and didn’t nerf the rest of the SARs the M1A1 would be made utterly obsolete

    If they the Tommy a 6HK at 10m (when 20m and 30m engagements are commonplace in-game) it would become simply worse than the sten, mp40, etc at distances over 10m and with the sten’s superior accuracy it wouldn’t even be close unless they also nerfed all the other SMGs

    The same applies with all the other examples and we’ve also been presented with examples from ARs, MMGs and PCs meaning that most guns in the game will need nerfs. Then after that if the STG and M1A1 get a nerfs and the other ARs and SARs also get nerfed then you can’t not nerf the LMGs otherwise they’ll be indisputably the best guns in the game. The game would be even more unbalanced than it was at launch and so they’d have to nerf the LMGs too. By this point you’ve nerfed about 80% of the guns in the game and there could be even more ripples after that

    That is the data we're missing. And they said upfront RoF is being changed. The Thompson could take 100 bullets to kill at 20m, but if it's RoF is 5,000 it won't matter much assuming the magazine is large enough. And they also admitted to changing the magazine count.

    We literally don't know how they're going to balance everything.


    So rather than make some minor tweaks your hope is that they turn all the guns into syfi cartoon weapons that don't even have a resemblance to their historical counterpart.


    That is your best case scenario for defending dice? You are hoping we get borderlands guns.

    No, I never said any of that. I'm just stating the extreme to get the simple point across that a higher BTK isn't necessarily a higher TTK. Personally, I hope they don't change the TTK or it fails miserably, because they're probably not doing any of this for the core community. Sad to see such repulsive actions after a seemingly solid return.

    Guess DICE and their management never fail to disappoint. I will remember that when the next game releases. Don't care how solid BFV becomes now. They keep throwing their core players under a bus. Again. And again. Might as well switch to Siege or Insurgency Sandstorm. A company that won't sell one product then throw all of it away to boost sales.
  • MusicienElegant
    232 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited November 2019
    CnConrad wrote: »
    Hello, after reconsideration of the data - or lack thereof - and the facts, I am looking forward to 5.2. Why? DICE aren't directly changing the TTK. They gave us a few graphs from the most popular weapons that make the TTK look longer. For all we know about these changes, the graphs could match other weapons in the game now. If that is the case, the TTK isn't changing, those weapons are just getting nerfed.

    We don't know what less used weapons will become. The TTK for those weapons might be getting shorter, and because we lack that data, I can't conclude that the TTK is getting longer across the board.

    There is an issue with the less used weapons. Take the Thompson vs the EMP for example. The Thompson has a fast RoF, high magazine, and great damage model over range. This makes the weapon useful in close quarters and mid-range. The EMP has a lower damage model, a slower RoF, and a smaller magazine. This makes the weapon obsolete in close quarters because it just isn't useful there. The lower recoil is supposed to make it useful at mid-range, but the Thompson can still trump it due to its overall better balanced stats.

    This issue is what 5.2 is attempting to tackle. Weapons like the EMP and MP40 should be more useful at the ranges they're supposed to be good at, instead of getting trumped by the Thompson.

    This isn't like last December where the TTK is getting longer across the board. The announcement admitted to needing to balance each weapon one by one. This means that the TTK could be getting shorter or longer, depending upon the weapon. Yet we lack the proper data to conclude that the TTK is changing.

    And, balance changes aside, we're getting Community Games and Wake Island. So I am looking forward to 5.2. Please stop pressuring DICE to not change the TTK. We barely even have the full picture as to what they're doing.

    Thanks for the updates!

    🙎🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️

    If they made the M1A1 an 8HK at 50m and didn’t nerf the rest of the SARs the M1A1 would be made utterly obsolete

    If they the Tommy a 6HK at 10m (when 20m and 30m engagements are commonplace in-game) it would become simply worse than the sten, mp40, etc at distances over 10m and with the sten’s superior accuracy it wouldn’t even be close unless they also nerfed all the other SMGs

    The same applies with all the other examples and we’ve also been presented with examples from ARs, MMGs and PCs meaning that most guns in the game will need nerfs. Then after that if the STG and M1A1 get a nerfs and the other ARs and SARs also get nerfed then you can’t not nerf the LMGs otherwise they’ll be indisputably the best guns in the game. The game would be even more unbalanced than it was at launch and so they’d have to nerf the LMGs too. By this point you’ve nerfed about 80% of the guns in the game and there could be even more ripples after that

    That is the data we're missing. And they said upfront RoF is being changed. The Thompson could take 100 bullets to kill at 20m, but if it's RoF is 5,000 it won't matter much assuming the magazine is large enough. And they also admitted to changing the magazine count.

    We literally don't know how they're going to balance everything.


    So rather than make some minor tweaks your hope is that they turn all the guns into syfi cartoon weapons that don't even have a resemblance to their historical counterpart.


    That is your best case scenario for defending dice? You are hoping we get borderlands guns.

    No, I never said any of that. I'm just stating the extreme to get the simple point across that a higher BTK isn't necessarily a higher TTK. Personally, I hope they don't change the TTK or it fails miserably, because they're probably not doing any of this for the core community. Sad to see such repulsive actions after a seemingly solid return.

    Guess DICE and their management never fail to disappoint. I will remember that when the next game releases. Don't care how solid BFV becomes now. They keep throwing their core players under a bus. Again. And again. Might as well switch to Siege or Insurgency Sandstorm. A company that won't sell one product then throw all of it away to boost sales.

    Even though Community Games is releasing, that doesn't change the fact that they're still completely disregarding the core. Just like the launch of this game. Which means, as expected, nothing changed aside from the game being more solid. Still excuses nothing.

    And I'll remember that well into the future when I'm deciding to buy the next game. Don't care if it's a BC3 or not. Poo on you too.

    Deliver on your promise to give us an awesome game by making the game better and pleasing us. Not showing us time and time again the realism of the corporate style management.

    I'm pretty tempted to abstain from BFV if the TTK responds like I think it will.
  • FF_smart27
    1998 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Honestly, I don't know if all this is worth discussing at this point since we have no idea how it is going to play out. All we know is that there will be changes in the BTK but how will it affect TTK? This man tried to tell you but y'all aren't listening
    PartWelsh said:
    moose004 said:
    The graph at 4:56...are they seriously saying that an MG42 will take THIRTEEN ROUNDS to kill somebody at 100 meters with these changes?
    Please consider that we're making ROF and Recoil adjustments to the weapons too. It's going to be best to view these changes in the context of gameplay when you get hands on next month.
    Maybe some one should change the thread title to " 5.2 BTK Change "
This discussion has been closed.