AA Guns are Totally Underpowered

Comments

  • Terminator000001
    1002 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited December 2019
    Rusty5p00n wrote: »

    - Remove AutoRepair for Planes

    That will most likely never happen. With this, you effectively kill planes as a total. You wouldn't be even able to do one attack run.

    Also people should be happy how it is now. In BF3 and 4 planes auto healed up to 100% again, as long as they didn't take any damage and weren't in the disabled state. That was way more overpowered.
  • Dr_Steamfur
    337 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    mf_shro0m said:
    Rattoner wrote: »
    (Quote)
    Incorrect. Planes can drop bombs on stationary/no defense AA OUTSIDE OF THE AA's RANGE TO SHOOT. 

    Its so easy for a plane to take down an AA its not even funny

    Dude you don’t even fly. Look, spend 10 rounds as a pilot in the Pacific and then tell me what you think
    I do fly, I just find it boring and repetitive so I don't do it much.

    That being said, I don't need to fly. All I need to do is be in an AA and shoot STRAIGHT AT A PLANE NOSE DIVING AT ME who is OUT OF MY RANGE OF FIRE while his bombs drop on me. 

    This happens to me DAILY.

    I don't need to be a pilot to know its broken. 
  • mf_shro0m
    2348 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Rattoner wrote: »
    (Quote)
    I do fly, I just find it boring and repetitive so I don't do it much.

    That being said, I don't need to fly. All I need to do is be in an AA and shoot STRAIGHT AT A PLANE NOSE DIVING AT ME who is OUT OF MY RANGE OF FIRE while his bombs drop on me. 

    This happens to me DAILY.

    I don't need to be a pilot to know its broken. 

    AAs have to have limited range because planes usually have no cover. If AAs had unlimited range you’d see AAs being spammed crossmap and pilots wouldn’t be able to leave their spawns

    You can’t completely rely on AAs in-game just like how you can’t irl. The main counter to hostile planes is friendly planes and if dice would just make dogfighting less boring and unrewarding planes would have a lot more trouble staying alive
  • DingoKillr
    4352 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    This debate is like when people talk of gun play TTK being faster is better, but it is always a one sided issue. Planes want quick kills on ground targets but never want to be quickly killed.

    There will never be enough SAA to require 2 to destroy a plane, that would be like 2 on every flag. That is overkill even with reduce range which would then make ground more vulnerable to planes.

    Planes have to many splash weapons for any range and 3PV firing makes it too easy to use.

    There are to many perks or specializations in BF to ignore their impact on the game. A simple increase in speed helps planes avoid AA or bomb/resupply more frequently.
    These will never be rolled back or removed. So balancing can not be skill v skill(1v1) when SAA has no perks to adjust their weapon.

    AA needs sufficient damage to destroy planes, not damage only. The current duration and DPS is to small.

    - Self-repair needs to take longer.
    - Remove 3PV firing. You can still fly and look in 3PV.
    - Team only resupply point. The cool down either gets increased or goes requiring two flyby to get full ammo.
    - the respawn rate of planes needs looking at.
    - FF small increase in ammo max 8 instead of 6.
    - SAA over heat needs to occur later.

    The principle is if planes are to remain strong and variable then they should be out of combat longer.


  • MintySSD
    137 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    DaMutha1 wrote: »
    I shot down 5 planes on the second sector of Iwo Jima last night.   EZPZ.    Was a support, so I kept rebuilding the gun when they blew it up.

    I did the same then had an assault guy near me with his FF trying to keep them away from A bit then we got bombed by fighter after fighter so had to retreat.

  • MintySSD
    137 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Also doesn’t help when your pilots don’t chase the enemy planes they just all do bombing runs And seem to ignore the other team haha
  • warriorjoy
    38 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    mf_shro0m said:
    SirBobdk wrote: »
    (Quote)
    I guess your right about the AA if people would start using the FF. I feel bad for infantry in BT/pacific as a pilot.
    You could still have supply stations closer to the combat zone, but I liked it better in the past where if you got disabled you had to land and repair. if infantry could disable the Plane it would give them some time since it have to retirn to base to fully repair, If not disabled the system could work as it Is now with supply stations closer to the combat zone.It also mean that we wouldnt have the airfield/carrier attack and mines on them.

    Lol yeh that’s partly why in the Pacific i prioritise enemy armour. Taking out their armour is often also the most helpful thing you can do for your team

    To what extent could planes be disabled in those older games? I haven’t flown much in BF4

    My concern is that it’s pretty easy to break wings and stuff in BFV and with AAs which are explosives, it’s very much based on luck. Given the velocity of the 40mm cannons and the FF you can’t really aim for wings.
    Also given that losing pursuing aircraft isn’t easy in BFV if you had to go back to base and land to repair broken parts dogfighting could be a real drag. I mean just thinking about it now, I get the feeling that dogfighting will become too much of a pain in the **** to do given how little reward you get and how often it’s rather one dimensional, and so I’d be tempted to just start bombing from orbit whenever I hopped in a plane. I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of pilots reached the same conclusions

    Another idea that popped up after I watched level cap’s video was that they could double the damage that smallarms and MGs on the ground do to planes. This would give more players a chance to do something about planes and allow MGs to finish off damaged planes and prep them for AAs and FFs
    Oh I am sorry that would be a drag for you
    They should force lanes t land and repair, as tanks have to do back at a base
    If shot down the time between spawns should be much longer
    Good pilots are now droping bombs at such altitudes it doesn't matter if you increase the power of the AA, you are lucky to get 1 or 2 hits
    Just slow down there repair and spawn so it is worth trying to shoot them down


  • warriorjoy
    38 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    mf_shro0m said:
    Rattoner wrote: »
    (Quote)
    I do fly, I just find it boring and repetitive so I don't do it much.

    That being said, I don't need to fly. All I need to do is be in an AA and shoot STRAIGHT AT A PLANE NOSE DIVING AT ME who is OUT OF MY RANGE OF FIRE while his bombs drop on me. 

    This happens to me DAILY.

    I don't need to be a pilot to know its broken. 

    AAs have to have limited range because planes usually have no cover. If AAs had unlimited range you’d see AAs being spammed crossmap and pilots wouldn’t be able to leave their spawns

    You can’t completely rely on AAs in-game just like how you can’t irl. The main counter to hostile planes is friendly planes and if dice would just make dogfighting less boring and unrewarding planes would have a lot more trouble staying alive
    Why dog fight when you can reap kills 
    Planes don't even bother to fight most of the time anymore
    So planes can high altitude bomb but AAs are useless
  • mf_shro0m
    2348 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    warriorjoy wrote: »
    (Quote)
    Oh I am sorry that would be a drag for you
    They should force lanes t land and repair, as tanks have to do back at a base
    If shot down the time between spawns should be much longer
    Good pilots are now droping bombs at such altitudes it doesn't matter if you increase the power of the AA, you are lucky to get 1 or 2 hits
    Just slow down there repair and spawn so it is worth trying to shoot them down

    You don’t fly mate so you have no idea what it’s like being a pilot

    The first thing games need to sort this out is team balancing that takes the skill of the team’s best pilots and tankers into account. You can’t buff an AA so it can reach the canopy without simultaneously making it so that planes, which can almost never hide, can be cross mapped by AAs.

    Extending the respawn time would just lead to pilots playing more conservatively and make it so that so one team had the numerical advantage in the skies it’d be harder for the team with fewer pilots in the sky to turn things around, which will lead to more pilots on the losing team quitting and ultimately leave the winning team without any opposition and free to focus on infantry and tanks.

    Forcing pilots to land to repair will do the same thing as above. In this game where shaking a hostile off your tail is pretty difficult due to the planes’ poor manoeuvrability it’ll also often be a death sentence if you get tailed which is terrible for gameplay and will lead to more spawn trapping
  • mf_shro0m
    2348 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited January 3
    warriorjoy wrote: »
    (Quote)
    Why dog fight when you can reap kills 
    Planes don't even bother to fight most of the time anymore
    So planes can high altitude bomb but AAs are useless

    A lot more pilots have been dogfighting recently and in the dozen or so games I’ve played as a pilot since 5.2.2 dropped you can’t just completely focus on infantry because hostile planes will attack you. This is probably due to the FF nerf because pre-patch often when you were chasing an enemy plane FF rockets would appear out of nowhere and cripple your plane or destroy you. It just made dogfighting even less worthwhile.

    Sure hostile pilots often start trying to avoid you and target the other two planes on your team if you pummel them into submission but most pilots can’t do that

    And FYI, I always prioritise hostile tanks over hostile infantry unless we’re being overrun somewhere and there aren’t any hostile tanks in sight because

    1. Taking out their armour benefits your team more
    2. Empathy. I’m not down with planes focussing on infantry just to boost their KD and that stuff just takes something out of the immersion

    So no, not everyone’s that obsessed about their KD and the KDs of other people

    Again, you have no idea what it’s like being a pilot
    Post edited by mf_shro0m on
  • mf_shro0m
    2348 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    DingoKillr wrote: »
    This debate is like when people talk of gun play TTK being faster is better, but it is always a one sided issue. Planes want quick kills on ground targets but never want to be quickly killed.

    There will never be enough SAA to require 2 to destroy a plane, that would be like 2 on every flag. That is overkill even with reduce range which would then make ground more vulnerable to planes.

    Planes have to many splash weapons for any range and 3PV firing makes it too easy to use.

    There are to many perks or specializations in BF to ignore their impact on the game. A simple increase in speed helps planes avoid AA or bomb/resupply more frequently.
    These will never be rolled back or removed. So balancing can not be skill v skill(1v1) when SAA has no perks to adjust their weapon.

    AA needs sufficient damage to destroy planes, not damage only. The current duration and DPS is to small.

    - Self-repair needs to take longer.
    - Remove 3PV firing. You can still fly and look in 3PV.
    - Team only resupply point. The cool down either gets increased or goes requiring two flyby to get full ammo.
    - the respawn rate of planes needs looking at.
    - FF small increase in ammo max 8 instead of 6.
    - SAA over heat needs to occur later.

    The principle is if planes are to remain strong and variable then they should be out of combat longer.


    AAs can destroy planes. The plane just needs to be distracted and flying kinda nearby and when they’re in the middle of a dogfight they’re easy to take out

    - I’d be fine with them removing the 3rd person crosshair if a 1st person aiming scope was added. Planes should still be able to use their weapons in 3rd pov
    - Team only resupply like in the Pacific, totally fine. Requiring 2 flybys to fully restock wouldn’t delay the planes much and the main impact would be that planes that get tailed will have a significantly increased fatality rate which would be bad for gameplay. If the resupply had its cool down halved and the auto repair restocked on the first flyby that’d be ok too so long as they buff the manouvrability of fighters and fighter bombers
    - Increasing the respawn delay will just make numerical advantages harder to overturn and lead to more heavily one sided rounds where one team has no planes in the sky and the other team’s just free to focus on infantry.
    - The FF would be better off with a 10% velocity increase and AAs should take longer to overheat. Also they should double the damage firearms do to planes
  • ChickenTheTank
    834 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    mf_shro0m wrote: »
    warriorjoy wrote: »
    (Quote)
    Oh I am sorry that would be a drag for you
    They should force lanes t land and repair, as tanks have to do back at a base
    If shot down the time between spawns should be much longer
    Good pilots are now droping bombs at such altitudes it doesn't matter if you increase the power of the AA, you are lucky to get 1 or 2 hits
    Just slow down there repair and spawn so it is worth trying to shoot them down

    You don’t fly mate so you have no idea what it’s like being a pilot

    The first thing games need to sort this out is team balancing that takes the skill of the team’s best pilots and tankers into account. You can’t buff an AA so it can reach the canopy without simultaneously making it so that planes, which can almost never hide, can be cross mapped by AAs.

    Extending the respawn time would just lead to pilots playing more conservatively and make it so that so one team had the numerical advantage in the skies it’d be harder for the team with fewer pilots in the sky to turn things around, which will lead to more pilots on the losing team quitting and ultimately leave the winning team without any opposition and free to focus on infantry and tanks.

    Forcing pilots to land to repair will do the same thing as above. In this game where shaking a hostile off your tail is pretty difficult due to the planes’ poor manoeuvrability it’ll also often be a death sentence if you get tailed which is terrible for gameplay and will lead to more spawn trapping

    They could extend AA's vertical range, but not its horizontal range. It would be a completely impossible scenario to justify using real life physics modeling, but it might help with balance.
  • CT1924
    1353 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Aa are easy kills... should 2 shot fighters, 3 on bombers. Would be much better.
  • CT1924
    1353 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Oh, btw, I can dive bomb aa for the memes and fly away at half health, even if they land their shots.
  • mf_shro0m
    2348 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    CT1924 wrote: »
    Oh, btw, I can dive bomb aa for the memes and fly away at half health, even if they land their shots.

    I can’t do that 🥺
  • Terminator000001
    1002 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    mf_shro0m wrote: »
    CT1924 wrote: »
    Oh, btw, I can dive bomb aa for the memes and fly away at half health, even if they land their shots.

    I can’t do that 🥺


    Confuse the AA by flying straight ahead to him and then dive under his first couple shots. You can easily tank the following hits you will suffer. It's easier than you think.

    Did that successfully all the time when 3rd person marker weren't a thing for fighter planes. 🦆
  • ChickenTheTank
    834 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    CT1924 wrote: »
    Aa are easy kills... should 2 shot fighters, 3 on bombers. Would be much better.

    That's a really bad take. AA's would just never fire until the plane is in range, and planes would never have a chance to escape or react. The balance isn't great now, but players should have opportunities to react to an attack in most situations. Not just instant death to planes.
  • Blueghost22
    15 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member

    That's a really bad take. AA's would just never fire until the plane is in range, and planes would never have a chance to escape or react. The balance isn't great now, but players should have opportunities to react to an attack in most situations. Not just instant death to planes.
    I just had a horrible night with the type 10, again.  4 out of 5 hits to a plane did no damage, not even head on hits to the cockpit.  That is jut messed up no matter how you look at it.  The Type 10 should check planes up but now it take 5 or more shots just to get 2 that do damage.

    Another issue is that planes can see the ground assets on the map and can use it to tell when AA is manned and rain down death.  It takes fewer hits to kill the AA gunner.  I watch the map to check for when the AA gets rebuilt.

    and finally, my beef is the damage.  Tonight I was killed in a 100% health Sherman by a single bomb yet a 120mm round to a cockpit did 0 damage.
  • ChickenTheTank
    834 postsMember, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited January 4
    (Quote)
    I just had a horrible night with the type 10, again.  4 out of 5 hits to a plane did no damage, not even head on hits to the cockpit.  That is jut messed up no matter how you look at it.  The Type 10 should check planes up but now it take 5 or more shots just to get 2 that do damage.

    Another issue is that planes can see the ground assets on the map and can use it to tell when AA is manned and rain down death.  It takes fewer hits to kill the AA gunner.  I watch the map to check for when the AA gets rebuilt.

    and finally, my beef is the damage.  Tonight I was killed in a 100% health Sherman by a single bomb yet a 120mm round to a cockpit did 0 damage.

    How does any of that justify the person I quoted saying AA should be a 2 hit kill? The Type10 is not general AA, I think it is fine doing 45 damage. They just need to fix the hitreg on planes they broke with 5.2, and I thick it will solve the screams of underpowered AA and FF's.

    I also agree that a Sherman shouldn't be able to be OHK'd by planes, but none if that statement involves AA, which is the thread topic.
    Post edited by ChickenTheTank on
  • SirBobdk
    5318 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    (Quote)
    I just had a horrible night with the type 10, again.  4 out of 5 hits to a plane did no damage, not even head on hits to the cockpit.  That is jut messed up no matter how you look at it.  The Type 10 should check planes up but now it take 5 or more shots just to get 2 that do damage.

    Another issue is that planes can see the ground assets on the map and can use it to tell when AA is manned and rain down death.  It takes fewer hits to kill the AA gunner.  I watch the map to check for when the AA gets rebuilt.

    and finally, my beef is the damage.  Tonight I was killed in a 100% health Sherman by a single bomb yet a 120mm round to a cockpit did 0 damage.

    How does any of that justify the person I wooed saying AA should be a 2 hit kilI
    Lol, so you want an AA that can easily noob farm planes making it just as as unbalanced as some planes are in certain game modes/maps.
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