This Week in Battlefield V - January 6th Edition

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Comments

  • Rolf_d_Destroyer
    postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    CH3OCH3 said:
    Its so nice to see aswell that ALL the Channels (Twitter/forum/youtube etc)  GETS SPAMMED WITH NEW YEAR AND CHRISTMAS **** MEMES instead of adressing the BIG ISSUE of WHEN WILL YOU FIX 5.2.2 and give us back mid-long range engagements and stop with the newb **** with low recoil lazer weapons and auto spotting ? NO Constructive ANSWER what so ever even trying to touch the issue!
    THE Servers and the Game is dead allready....

    I Sincerly hope that the move to use DICE-LA was somewhat related with thier rly bad long term support and messed up patches in 5.2 and 5.2.2 i hope once the power goes back to sweden some good will come from it....
    So much to unpack, so let's get started. 

    1. The big one - DICE LA hasn't worked on Battlefield V since ... August. And that was just the two maps Lofoten Islands and Provence being refitted to the base game once the 5v5 mode was cancelled. Stockholm has basically been driving all the content and game changes otherwise - not that it matters, as we are one team. (Just a note - most of the DLC content for BF1 was done in DICE LA, as was a lot of fixes for BF4 & the 2nd year maps,  the BF4 CTE, etc. Facts are fun, huh?)
    2. You can literally post without profanity - or don't post.
    3. The team is continuing to look at more tweaks and changes post 5.2.2 Hotfix based on data, telemetry, and feedback. (Note, feedback isn't "REVERT!" It's concise, constructive, well-thought-out detailed comments that cite examples and offer suggestions.) 
    4. Insults and abuse aren't necessary - and are technically violation of the forums. Consider this your warning.
    5. The studio was on holiday from around December 20 - January 7. And yeah, we will celebrate the holidays as individuals and as a company. Not even apologizing for that. 

    Have a good one.
    -Braddock512

    I haven't played BF5 for long but I've played all previous Battlefield games. I get that people are upset over the TTK. Personally I think guns should be lethal, not Rainbow 6 Siege lethal. I'd say remove bullet drop and the game would be good. 4-6 bullets to kill people at any distance would make for more interesting gameplay, a more true "battlefield" experience. As a LMG/MMG:er it's quite unfun to see the white and yellow hit marker pop up over and over again without getting kills. Even less fun when SMGs outgun you from 50 meters when you are bipodded with MG42 and all the upgrades.

    MMGs lose in short range to SMG, they lose in mid range to ARs and they lost in long range vs bolt carbines and rifles. People are fearless when they come up against an MMG and so am I when I play something else. Because it's so easy to kill them as they do not have the accuracy or damage to prevent you from doing so. Also you can move in and out of cover, swap sides of the cover in order to get first shot at the guy, since he can't move. Not to mention that hitting a stationary target is easier than a moving one so you already have the advantage. You've balanced it around that an MMG should have a decent change against 1on1, which removes the purpose of the MMG. It should be long range cover/area denial (in my opinion of course). If MMG was shoulder fired with the same ADS as ARs then it would be okay. But even then I'd say most other guns would outperform it due to their accuracy, TTK and recoil control. The same goes for LMGs.

    As for your post, which is making big waves on Reddit apparently.
    1: I think it's good that you clarify those things, but I don't think the players care about it. They want someone to blame.
    2: I don't think censoring is a good thing, writing profanity is part of every language. We're not in church. Not sure if you've played online lately but gamers talk like this and many many times worse.
    3: Good to hear! I too think a lot of people that post miss the entire point of posting. Going "this game is BAD!" adds nothing. Tell us why YOU think it's "bad". Give us examples on how to solve it, what do you think is wrong etc. People on Reddit felt you came off as passive-aggressive but I didn't really feel that. Especially since I think you are right on this point at least.
    4: I agree with this. Altough people and gamers are prone to do so, when you are asking for something, you ask nicely or not at all. You don't call customer support and yell obscenities at them and expect them to help/listen to you.
    5: Good for you, I hope you and the rest of the people at DICE had a great holiday. I can understand that players were annoyed that the patch came out and you went on holiday after it. But I've seen it many times before so I can somehow calculate that this is how it works in the industry. And even if you weren't on holiday, it's not like you would take 1 day of data and revert an entire patch based on that. People are a bit unreasonable in this regard.
  • AmosBurton_GER
    947 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    DICE shouldn't rely on numbers too much my scores haven't suffered as a result of 5.2 in fact they might be better - skilled players will always adapt to changes but getting those high scores isn't nearly as fun as it used to be. 

    My scores haven't suffered either (in fact my KDR has doubled since type 2a) - but it's no fun anymore. The longer TTK serves me, too, I do not get killed so often anymore during risky actions. BUT WHERE IS THE FUN IN THIS???
  • RODBRONCO
    2 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Congratulations. You've ruined this game. Please revert the ttk or make a hardcore or I'll likely never play this again as it's just not fun anymore. : (
  • wildbam
    80 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Blackidus said:

    @Braddock512

    I was not really planning to respond to this thread but after your posts I feel like i have to write something to let my steam off but i´m gonna try and respond in a calm and respectful way. And i´l just ad that I am also responding to this as a developer myself, not as a game-developer but as a ERP developer and are used to agile workflow. It might be a long response :)

     

    "The changes were not an insult to you. That's a bit dramatic. "

    Well the community does not feel like that when you release a statement before the release of the changes and at least 75% opposes to the changes and you claim that you guys listend to your community and calls us the "best community in the world" while you ignore our oppinions and concerns. And on top of that, a year ago you promised that you would not do any major weapond changes or TTK changes again. You guys broke your promise to your own community.

     

    ""No one likes" - That's a pretty big generalization and unless you've asked everyone, it's not accurate. I've engaged with countless players that have adjusted to the changes and are fine with continued tweaks."

     But still countless more wanting a reversal, and yeah people have adjusted to the changes, but that mean they are having fun playing the game? Does that mean that people are now using weaponds the way you guys intended after the change? No, people now use fewer guns instead of more. Yes I have adjusted to the changes by only using 6-8 of the avalable weaponds and I dont feel like that whas the intention of the change.


     ""hopes in bringing in Christmas noobs" - I keep seeing this phrase randomly thrown about and it's based on conjecture and assumptions. "

    It whas pretty much summed up in this response from Partwelsh https://forums.battlefield.com/en-us/discussion/196968/responding-to-your-concerns-update-5-2/p1 that you where doing theese changes to cater to new players.

     

    ""leaving us with a broken unsatisfing game to play" - Remove the word broken. It's playable. It plays. It's not broken. You may not like how it plays, it may not fit your style of play, but it's definitely not "broken"."

     Broken and "Playable" is not far from eachother, a playable game does not equal a finished game that you sell for 60 bucks or in my case for the "Deluxe Edition" 80 bucks. And a game where you as the customer needs to use a sollution as bad as quiting a game to workaround a revive bug, i´l consider that broken. I wont consider the gunplay broken as it is as it is by design, it´s just not satisfying and surtenly not what I payed 80 bucks for more than a year ago.

     

    "Do I think it's okay for me and the Devs and other employees to take a holiday break? Absolutely." 

     Agree to this, i´m Swedish myself and a developer and yeah. You deserve time of, but me and my coworkers would not go for a almost 3 week long break knowing our customers or in your case community are in uproar because of your game/product. And we work in a smaller company with less than 100 people using our ERP dayly. You have thousand and hundreds of thousand playing your game every day.

     

    "We're taking feedback and analyzing data and the Dev team will continue to make those adjustments"

     This to me signals that the rebalancing of the guns where not finished and really thought through. This looks like you are treating the live game environment that your customers and community play on as a testing environment.

     

    "But they have a plan and see a much bigger picture than you do regarding the changes and road forward for Battlefield V."

     If they now have this huge picture of how they see Battlefield V being played in the future maybe they should share it? As a developer you dont hide big changes and fixes for you customer, you ask what your customer wants. For example, I as a developer dont go to my sales depatment and deliver a new feature that they didn´t ask for, I dont work in the sales department and I dont know what their workflow looks like. If the sales department wants something in our ERP to help them work more efficient they come to us telling us what they need.

    I know that is much different in gaming but still, we are the players that actually put the hours into the game and gets the "live" experience on the live servers and sees the problems. If you really wanted to decrease the "churn" you could easily have asked us beforehand and all these hours,days,months spent on analysing and rebalancing all the weaponds could have been spent on new weaponds wich would be new content that this game so desperatly needs. We still have weaponds from leaks, trailers and singleplayer that we dont have in multiplayer. New actual content should be under your control, but looking at bugs, fixes and what the game needs to play better you should really listend more to you community. We have been begging for anti-cheat and team balancing since the release but we hear nothing about where you stand on this. No team balancing and no anti cheat is the reason behind churn in this game, not the pre 5.2 weapond balancing. 

     BF1 got a team balancer, even a mid-round team balancer and anti-cheat. They might not have been the best, but it whas something. And if a previous game hade those features the community wont see the following game as a finished product if it does not include theese things.

     And I might ad a thing about the Trello board.It´s a great idea but it´s still lacking a lot. I dont know how much you can do in Trello but I work dayly in a simmilar maybe more powerfull tool called "Leankit" where we have hundreds of cards, cards for every bug, new feature and critical issue. Looking at that and then looking at yours it feels like there are missing a few hundreds of cards on yours. If you are going to be transparent and honest about what you guys are working with and prioritizing you should really find a way to have every bug and issue in there so the community know where you are standing and when fixes can be expected to bee arriving.

     I´ve been a BF player since BF1942 and even Codename Eagle, i´ve stuck with this game since release but i´, beginning to give up. I now only play 2-4 hours a week only to finish the TOW challenges and it feels like a chore, not like i´m playing a fun BF game. Other than that I hope you all had a great holiday and comes back with a lot of energy to tackle on all upcomming challenges.



    s0lid_G said:
    -Braddock512 

    As a battlefield veteran from BF 1942, let me share my POW on this whole TTK fiasco.

    First time you have introduced these changes last year with reductions to max damage at range for all weapons. Blanket change which cause serious inconsistencies in the gameplay loop and made the game very unfun, because it went against the level design.

    It did not work, you have apologized for this mistake, since this game is not a CTE, and it butchered the core game for all players and promised, you will not pull this stunt again...

    End of 2019, after an excelent DLC, the pacific, the DEV team rebalances weapons, not with a blanket change, but to some tweaks to recoil, some tweaks to ROF and most important damage at range.

    The change with 5.2 was terribly executed, probably with small amount of testing, the gameplay loop was not fun and made new meta guns, with almost 80% of other weapons in each class (apart from recon) obsolete.
    The promise was to make more guns viable, but it achieved the complete opposite.

    Fast 5.2.2 tweak to "add water to the burns"...
    It did help to make the game less frustrating, however, the midrange combat is absolutely unfun.
    You see, the problem is, this game and its level were designed with open spaces and mid to long range combat in mind.
    This is the core problem. The DEVs are trying to bring people closer together on wide open maps.

    The result is a terrible experience, where you can engage an enemy if you see it, however he is a bit far away because of the sightlines.. but why engaging if you cannot kill him even with a full mag. Even the best players will not hit every shot... this is not CSGO with precise spray patterns you can control. I played CS for almost 15 years, so I know how a refined gunplay plays.
    It rewards skilled players, and that did 5.0 in a way aswell. Guns had actual recoil, so burst-firing was a great option and switching to single fire was a needed for some guns to be viable long range. It rewarded map knowledge, positioning, movement and gun control. Now we just have a meta, where a the highest ROF firing weapon wins, the guns are mostly lasers with almost no gun control needed (STG) and there is no point of using anything else, because after 5 hits, your target is still alive and running and in the meantime you have sights of his teammate on your head and you are going down with zero kills. On my behalf, I have no problem to topscore the match, however, its not fun for me to not engage because of the low damage, not because I cannot hit the player. 

    This game is now in a bad spot. Snipers should dominate long range, but why make the semi autos obsolete? M1 has 8 rounds in mag and a 5shot to kill at max range... like WHAT? Why should I run from the engagement if I can hit all my shots? Remember this is not CS where 1v1 engagements are normal. In battlefield, in almost every situation you engage atleast 2 players at a time and that is the problem. Big open maps with players cluttered together because of lowered damage model.

    Now whats with the TYPE2A? Are you making fun of us? I mean, If the gun balance was untouched it would be a great addition, now its the GODGUN... 

    And let me have a few words to the spotting changes.
    This is even more frustrating than the whole TTK change. Almost all the time, I am spotted, by scouts, planes (with invisible flares). This game was the perfect battlefield for me, guns were fun, rewarding, flanks were very satisfying because of no "Q spam" spotting.

    The community is angry. Yet your response is, some people like it, so we listen to them and make some tweaks..
    To be honest, this game is now nothing that the DEVS teased and marketed on launch. The "skilled" and more HC battlefield is getting more and more casual with each update. Its almost like false advertising, on which we should get a refund..

    To finish this post, I am still playing the game, however this is just the tip of the iceberg, when the game has so many problems, as NO ANTICHEAT, NO AUTOTEAMBALANCER, NO TEAMSWITCHING, LACKLUSTER RSP and the lack of content this live service is providing. For me the premium model was thousand times better, because the content provided was actually good.

    There is zero community involvement and build up. No dedicated servers for us to have custom rotations, server rules and server names...

    I am not mad, just very dissapointed after seeing the rock bottom that the battlefield franchise hit with this game.
    I still remember the reveal trailer, the horrible reveal event, the insults of being uneducated, the political propaganda in this game.

    Please, for the majority of the players, bring the skilled gunplay back, with all its lethality and recoil.
    Thanks,

    David.




    You both nailed it! Thanks. I couldn't add more! 

    I already said in a couple of posts; now Im forced to play certain guns I don't want to play with 'cause my fav SARs are just not viable anymore. I cant use them for my close combat engagements anymore.. no fun at all! And this spotting.. I dont know.. we dont need this..

    Is the hardcore mode coming for the "big picture"? Please tell us.


  • DirtyDog1974
    318 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    I quit playing BFV due to your lack of acknowledging the fan base, until you can be open and honest with us, I will not be returning. 
  • losthunter340
    119 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Blackidus said:

    @Braddock512

    I was not really planning to respond to this thread but after your posts I feel like i have to write something to let my steam off but i´m gonna try and respond in a calm and respectful way. And i´l just ad that I am also responding to this as a developer myself, not as a game-developer but as a ERP developer and are used to agile workflow. It might be a long response :)

     

    "The changes were not an insult to you. That's a bit dramatic. "

    Well the community does not feel like that when you release a statement before the release of the changes and at least 75% opposes to the changes and you claim that you guys listend to your community and calls us the "best community in the world" while you ignore our oppinions and concerns. And on top of that, a year ago you promised that you would not do any major weapond changes or TTK changes again. You guys broke your promise to your own community.

     

    ""No one likes" - That's a pretty big generalization and unless you've asked everyone, it's not accurate. I've engaged with countless players that have adjusted to the changes and are fine with continued tweaks."

     But still countless more wanting a reversal, and yeah people have adjusted to the changes, but that mean they are having fun playing the game? Does that mean that people are now using weaponds the way you guys intended after the change? No, people now use fewer guns instead of more. Yes I have adjusted to the changes by only using 6-8 of the avalable weaponds and I dont feel like that whas the intention of the change.


     ""hopes in bringing in Christmas noobs" - I keep seeing this phrase randomly thrown about and it's based on conjecture and assumptions. "

    It whas pretty much summed up in this response from Partwelsh https://forums.battlefield.com/en-us/discussion/196968/responding-to-your-concerns-update-5-2/p1 that you where doing theese changes to cater to new players.

     

    ""leaving us with a broken unsatisfing game to play" - Remove the word broken. It's playable. It plays. It's not broken. You may not like how it plays, it may not fit your style of play, but it's definitely not "broken"."

     Broken and "Playable" is not far from eachother, a playable game does not equal a finished game that you sell for 60 bucks or in my case for the "Deluxe Edition" 80 bucks. And a game where you as the customer needs to use a sollution as bad as quiting a game to workaround a revive bug, i´l consider that broken. I wont consider the gunplay broken as it is as it is by design, it´s just not satisfying and surtenly not what I payed 80 bucks for more than a year ago.

     

    "Do I think it's okay for me and the Devs and other employees to take a holiday break? Absolutely." 

     Agree to this, i´m Swedish myself and a developer and yeah. You deserve time of, but me and my coworkers would not go for a almost 3 week long break knowing our customers or in your case community are in uproar because of your game/product. And we work in a smaller company with less than 100 people using our ERP dayly. You have thousand and hundreds of thousand playing your game every day.

     

    "We're taking feedback and analyzing data and the Dev team will continue to make those adjustments"

     This to me signals that the rebalancing of the guns where not finished and really thought through. This looks like you are treating the live game environment that your customers and community play on as a testing environment.

     

    "But they have a plan and see a much bigger picture than you do regarding the changes and road forward for Battlefield V."

     If they now have this huge picture of how they see Battlefield V being played in the future maybe they should share it? As a developer you dont hide big changes and fixes for you customer, you ask what your customer wants. For example, I as a developer dont go to my sales depatment and deliver a new feature that they didn´t ask for, I dont work in the sales department and I dont know what their workflow looks like. If the sales department wants something in our ERP to help them work more efficient they come to us telling us what they need.

    I know that is much different in gaming but still, we are the players that actually put the hours into the game and gets the "live" experience on the live servers and sees the problems. If you really wanted to decrease the "churn" you could easily have asked us beforehand and all these hours,days,months spent on analysing and rebalancing all the weaponds could have been spent on new weaponds wich would be new content that this game so desperatly needs. We still have weaponds from leaks, trailers and singleplayer that we dont have in multiplayer. New actual content should be under your control, but looking at bugs, fixes and what the game needs to play better you should really listend more to you community. We have been begging for anti-cheat and team balancing since the release but we hear nothing about where you stand on this. No team balancing and no anti cheat is the reason behind churn in this game, not the pre 5.2 weapond balancing. 

     BF1 got a team balancer, even a mid-round team balancer and anti-cheat. They might not have been the best, but it whas something. And if a previous game hade those features the community wont see the following game as a finished product if it does not include theese things.

     And I might ad a thing about the Trello board.It´s a great idea but it´s still lacking a lot. I dont know how much you can do in Trello but I work dayly in a simmilar maybe more powerfull tool called "Leankit" where we have hundreds of cards, cards for every bug, new feature and critical issue. Looking at that and then looking at yours it feels like there are missing a few hundreds of cards on yours. If you are going to be transparent and honest about what you guys are working with and prioritizing you should really find a way to have every bug and issue in there so the community know where you are standing and when fixes can be expected to bee arriving.

     I´ve been a BF player since BF1942 and even Codename Eagle, i´ve stuck with this game since release but i´, beginning to give up. I now only play 2-4 hours a week only to finish the TOW challenges and it feels like a chore, not like i´m playing a fun BF game. Other than that I hope you all had a great holiday and comes back with a lot of energy to tackle on all upcomming challenges.



    Couldnt not have said it better myself.
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