Tired of being cannon fodder

M3Mick3y
8 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
I am terribly tired of being "cannon fodder" as infantry. I have always loved to play infantry but lately I am not enjoying this very much. The problem is the airplanes and the tanks! The tanks are very often camping outside the zone where we cannot destroy it, please do something to prevent this! And the airplanes..... With a good pilot they are dominating the map, I see good pilots having 40-60 kills and 2-5 deaths during a round. I get extremely frustrated being killed multiple times by a pilot either by bombs or by being shot.


Proposal:

Make it impossible for tanks to camp outside the playable area for the opposite team. This could be done by moving the ammo stations for the tanks further forward or by making the area not available for tanks. You could let the tanks spawn further back but when they move forward to refill the ammo they should not be able to get back into the rear zone.

Airplanes MUST be nerfed (a lot!) against infantry. Let the pilots fight each others in the sky and make them usefull against vehicles. As it is today I actually rage quit servers where I see good pilots on the other team. I hate being killed every 30 seconds by a bomb or by the airplane cannons. The Fliegerfaust also need to be buffed as it was so the infantry can defend themselves better. I also think that Both Support and Assault should have the Fliegerfaust. As it is today we are forced to play Assault if we are on a map with airplanes.

I also LOVE the new Pacific maps, they are ALL awesome!

But there are way too many vehicles, Wake island is the best map ever but I actually don't like the map because the attackers have all these camping tanks raining grenades over us from a distance. The tanks are also very difficult to take out now.... The panzerfaust is almost unusable after the last patch and you will need FOUR mines to destroy it.... Please do something about this!

If you are a pilot, don't bother flaming this discussion!

Comments

  • VOLBANKER
    1295 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Apparently DICE balancing involves flipping a coin to see if a given weapon should be buffed or nerfed......
  • SirBobdk
    4683 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited January 10
    Its hard having this discussion without clarifying
    -Which planes
    -Which maps
    -Which game mode.

    Some planes are a problem and especially pacific planes in Breakthrough.
    They are less of a problem in CQ and vanilla maps (Unless fjell) imo.
    Planes dont need to be nerfed, they need to be balanced by chancing the upgrade trees and some maps need to be changed in order to create a better balance. Iwo and Wake for eksampel.
    And the mechanics should also be changed making it a little harder to fly but better at dogfighting. And the whole carpet bombing with 3th bomb circle is just the worse idea ever.
    FF is fine if 2-3 uses them, but should spawn with way more ammo and faster reload.
  • SystemicProgress
    98 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Fliegerfaust needs to be upgraded to cause more damage to the planes. I have noticed that one straight hit is not enough to down a plane in full health. The damage made goes over 100s, but the plane is not coming down. This needs to be tweaked.    
  • SirBobdk
    4683 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Fliegerfaust needs to be upgraded to cause more damage to the planes. I have noticed that one straight hit is not enough to down a plane in full health. The damage made goes over 100s, but the plane is not coming down. This needs to be tweaked.    

    OHK has never been the meaning of the FF and neither should it. Taking down planes is a team task
  • CSO7777
    1542 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    TFBisquit said:
    Planes are overpowered. Simple as that.
    The problem is that "vehicles" against infantry will always be a big problem to balance right. Either the vehicles are useless or become totally overpowered.

    In an ideal world, vehicles would be fighting other vehicles and not infantry, but this is probably impossible to implement in any good way.

    Vehicles is part of BF-games, and Dice has never really found the right balance. It's better in BFV than in BF1, but not by much.

    But having bombers is a problem, this will almost never end well...
  • Gubb
    6 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    It's a rock, paper, scissors game after all.
    One can't just keep doing the same thing over and over not expecting to be killed a lot.
    I'm not saying there's no issues, but it's less than you might think.
    Adapt, overcome, spice it up with a healthy measure of teamplay and you'll have more GG's. :)

    Me?
    I liked it better before the nerf/buff carousel got into motion.

  • CSO7777
    1542 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Gubb said:
    It's a rock, paper, scissors game after all.
    One can't just keep doing the same thing over and over not expecting to be killed a lot.
    I'm not saying there's no issues, but it's less than you might think.
    Adapt, overcome, spice it up with a healthy measure of teamplay and you'll have more GG's. :)

    Me?
    I liked it better before the nerf/buff carousel got into motion.

    The problem is that the rock, paper, scissors is not really working (on some maps/modes). Good pilots have so much firepower available, that they can make games a total hell for infantry, because the counters for them are not good enough.

    And the amount of salt we got from pilots, when the FF was introduced in the game...
  • warriorjoy
    38 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    SirBobdk said:
    Its hard having this discussion without clarifying
    -Which planes
    -Which maps
    -Which game mode.

    Some planes are a problem and especially pacific planes in Breakthrough.
    They are less of a problem in CQ and vanilla maps (Unless fjell) imo.
    Planes dont need to be nerfed, they need to be balanced by chancing the upgrade trees and some maps need to be changed in order to create a better balance. Iwo and Wake for eksampel.
    And the mechanics should also be changed making it a little harder to fly but better at dogfighting. And the whole carpet bombing with 3th bomb circle is just the worse idea ever.
    FF is fine if 2-3 uses them, but should spawn with way more ammo and faster reload.
    I play a fair amount of breakthrough and the planes are ruining that format at least in the Pacific
    The AA are useless against any competent pilot and the pilots are now double teaming the AA
    Plus regularly 1 AA emplacement for 2 or 3 planes

    The FF would be fine if the spawn on the planes was about a quarter of its current speed
    At the moment one squad has to not play the game as infantry but spend 30 minutes trying to take down planes, and when they do the plane just respawn immediately, so what a waste of time
    That means 4 players are basically doing a job rather than enjoying the game so pilots can reap away.
    (When the FF was effective what a bunch of whiners the pilots were!!!)

    If planes want to dog fight, then do so, but they don't, they spend the whole time reaping kills
    If the infantry both support and assault had effective FF's then planes would have to pay a penalty for reaping kills

    We can see the balance is totally wrong by the KD of pilots, regularly getting 30 kills per death
    What other class even gets close to that?


  • warriorjoy
    38 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    M3Mick3y said:
    I am terribly tired of being "cannon fodder" as infantry. I have always loved to play infantry but lately I am not enjoying this very much. The problem is the airplanes and the tanks! The tanks are very often camping outside the zone where we cannot destroy it, please do something to prevent this! And the airplanes..... With a good pilot they are dominating the map, I see good pilots having 40-60 kills and 2-5 deaths during a round. I get extremely frustrated being killed multiple times by a pilot either by bombs or by being shot.


    Proposal:

    Make it impossible for tanks to camp outside the playable area for the opposite team. This could be done by moving the ammo stations for the tanks further forward or by making the area not available for tanks. You could let the tanks spawn further back but when they move forward to refill the ammo they should not be able to get back into the rear zone.

    Airplanes MUST be nerfed (a lot!) against infantry. Let the pilots fight each others in the sky and make them usefull against vehicles. As it is today I actually rage quit servers where I see good pilots on the other team. I hate being killed every 30 seconds by a bomb or by the airplane cannons. The Fliegerfaust also need to be buffed as it was so the infantry can defend themselves better. I also think that Both Support and Assault should have the Fliegerfaust. As it is today we are forced to play Assault if we are on a map with airplanes.

    I also LOVE the new Pacific maps, they are ALL awesome!

    But there are way too many vehicles, Wake island is the best map ever but I actually don't like the map because the attackers have all these camping tanks raining grenades over us from a distance. The tanks are also very difficult to take out now.... The panzerfaust is almost unusable after the last patch and you will need FOUR mines to destroy it.... Please do something about this!

    If you are a pilot, don't bother flaming this discussion!

    I play as a tanker or as an Assault.
    1. I agree, tanks should not be allowed to camp outside the playable area, and would go furnther in saying that they should get no kills if outside.
    2. Tank Armour - AT THE BACK, should be 2 dynamite and 1 Piat, at the moment it is too strong, Front is OK
    3. Planes should be weakened immensely, or the FF and AA should be increased in quantity for the AA and quality for the FF

    I agree I think the Pacific maps are great, but I think the pilots are starting to ruin them
  • YourLocalPlumber
    3213 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Taking out a bomber with a fighter is the easiest thing you can do in this game if you have a slight presence of a functioning brain. But sadly, 9/10 players who take a fighter think its ok to go in a straight line, less than 100 meters behind a bomber and then cry that rear MGs of a bomber is overpowered.
  • Gubb
    6 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    CSO7777 said:
    Gubb said:
    It's a rock, paper, scissors game after all.
    One can't just keep doing the same thing over and over not expecting to be killed a lot.
    I'm not saying there's no issues, but it's less than you might think.
    Adapt, overcome, spice it up with a healthy measure of teamplay and you'll have more GG's. :)

    Me?
    I liked it better before the nerf/buff carousel got into motion.

    The problem is that the rock, paper, scissors is not really working (on some maps/modes). Good pilots have so much firepower available, that they can make games a total hell for infantry, because the counters for them are not good enough.

    And the amount of salt we got from pilots, when the FF was introduced in the game...

    CSO7777 said:
    Gubb said:
    It's a rock, paper, scissors game after all.
    One can't just keep doing the same thing over and over not expecting to be killed a lot.
    I'm not saying there's no issues, but it's less than you might think.
    Adapt, overcome, spice it up with a healthy measure of teamplay and you'll have more GG's. :)

    Me?
    I liked it better before the nerf/buff carousel got into motion.

    The problem is that the rock, paper, scissors is not really working (on some maps/modes). Good pilots have so much firepower available, that they can make games a total hell for infantry, because the counters for them are not good enough.

    And the amount of salt we got from pilots, when the FF was introduced in the game...

    That's also true I suppose, but not many players actually change what they are doing.
    Rather they rely on, or complain about, "our teams pilots" instead of make the effort to learn how to fly themselves.
    I know it's frustrating to be bombed to oblivion at every objective, repeatedly farmed by a camping tank or shot down within ten seconds after takeoff in a plane, but with the "whole team" sniping or camping between objectives as medics, nothing's going to be better either.
    I believe verastility is the key in BF.
    And that's what I meant by adapt and overcome.

    Ofcourse there are room for improvement, but i don't think any revolutionary changes are really necessary. :)
    .... well...
    Perhaps remove bombs and rockets from the fighter planes. Thus making it their priority to down bombers.



  • CSO7777
    1542 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Gubb said:
    CSO7777 said:
    Gubb said:
    It's a rock, paper, scissors game after all.
    One can't just keep doing the same thing over and over not expecting to be killed a lot.
    I'm not saying there's no issues, but it's less than you might think.
    Adapt, overcome, spice it up with a healthy measure of teamplay and you'll have more GG's. :)

    Me?
    I liked it better before the nerf/buff carousel got into motion.

    The problem is that the rock, paper, scissors is not really working (on some maps/modes). Good pilots have so much firepower available, that they can make games a total hell for infantry, because the counters for them are not good enough.

    And the amount of salt we got from pilots, when the FF was introduced in the game...

    CSO7777 said:
    Gubb said:
    It's a rock, paper, scissors game after all.
    One can't just keep doing the same thing over and over not expecting to be killed a lot.
    I'm not saying there's no issues, but it's less than you might think.
    Adapt, overcome, spice it up with a healthy measure of teamplay and you'll have more GG's. :)

    Me?
    I liked it better before the nerf/buff carousel got into motion.

    The problem is that the rock, paper, scissors is not really working (on some maps/modes). Good pilots have so much firepower available, that they can make games a total hell for infantry, because the counters for them are not good enough.

    And the amount of salt we got from pilots, when the FF was introduced in the game...

    That's also true I suppose, but not many players actually change what they are doing.
    Rather they rely on, or complain about, "our teams pilots" instead of make the effort to learn how to fly themselves.
    I know it's frustrating to be bombed to oblivion at every objective, repeatedly farmed by a camping tank or shot down within ten seconds after takeoff in a plane, but with the "whole team" sniping or camping between objectives as medics, nothing's going to be better either.
    I believe verastility is the key in BF.
    And that's what I meant by adapt and overcome.

    Ofcourse there are room for improvement, but i don't think any revolutionary changes are really necessary. :)
    .... well...
    Perhaps remove bombs and rockets from the fighter planes. Thus making it their priority to down bombers.



    I think that Dice should have kept the system from BF4, where people doesn't select the available vehicles, but Dice determine which ones are available. This way they could force vehicle balance into the game instead of leaving it up to the players to balance things out (even though I think BF4 vehicles were way overpowered in general). Players are "stupid", too often players just stick to doing one thing, and not doing what is best for the given map/mode. Many players care more for their own k/d, than winning the game for the team.

    Like on Fjell, when all pilots go "infantry farming", by all selecting bombers and just spend the round dropping bomb on any contested flag (making it one of the worst BF-maps ever). 

    And Dice should really consider whether bombers should be allowed on modes like BT, having one or two objectives with bombers at the same time is just a bad combination. They removed bombers from outpost, why not do the same in BT (rockets/arty is a problem on some BT-maps as well).
  • VOLBANKER
    1295 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    SirBobdk said:
    Fliegerfaust needs to be upgraded to cause more damage to the planes. I have noticed that one straight hit is not enough to down a plane in full health. The damage made goes over 100s, but the plane is not coming down. This needs to be tweaked.    

    OHK has never been the meaning of the FF and neither should it. Taking down planes is a team task
    DICE enabled people to walk up to a Medic/Support and grab health/ammo themselves, because medics and supports didn’t bother to throw it at people. So to think that people will cooperate on much more complex tasks such as shooting down planes is unrealistic.
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