If Dice wants their next game to be successful they must listen to hardcore players

Comments

  • PSJackman4
    325 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Im more of a casual BF player, but i would LOVE to see HC added to the next BF game. I like playing HC every now and then on COD, and i find it very enjoyable 
  • DingoKillr
    4352 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    What was HC like in say BF4. Was it just double or triple damage and no spotting? Was friendly fire on?  Mechanically though wasn't it the same game? I can't remember cos I hardly played it. 
    I accidentally landed on HC server in BF4. No spotting.
    No mini map.
    Some had lower health up to 60%, No regen.
    Friendly fire on (stupid tank drivers).
    Some even went as far as baning weapons.

    BF4 had the biggest cheat with a 2nd screen a map that spotted everyting.

    Glad I got kicked for FF their play style was really bad, I never looked back.

    It so funny seeing some HC players whinge about attrition in BFV when what they are asking for is a tougher one with HC
  • NN_Buzz12
    235 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Trokey66 wrote: »
    Trokey66 wrote: »
    I highly doubt addition of HC mode can automatically make the game successful. It's not that simple.

    That said, a hardcore mode would give the masochists somewhere to go and us normal people can play without a hardcore lite approach.

    In that sense, I hope BF6 does have a separate hardcore mode.



    Why'd you turn this into a bashing thread? It doesn't even mention the normal game mode in a bad light?

    I haven't, you have simply been over sensitive to what I said.

    Having dabbled in hardcore, I genuinely rhink that people who enjoy that mode are masochists with no insult intended.

    You may also want to look up the definition of 'masochist' before responding further.

    I looked up the definition and you are wrong. You may want to look up the word yourself.

    You dabbled in HC so you’re qualified to label people that like the game play? Then tell people they’re being sensitive because your reply lacks depth? I don’t think I would even post something if I dabbled in the subject being discussed.

    I have an opinion of people that don’t play HC mode and you’re helping to confirm my thought. How’s that?
  • NN_Buzz12
    235 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Interesting to read what some of the non-HC players have to say. I think giving the customer a choice is the right approach for EA.
  • ninjapenquinuk
    2247 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    What was HC like in say BF4. Was it just double or triple damage and no spotting? Was friendly fire on?  Mechanically though wasn't it the same game? I can't remember cos I hardly played it. 
    I accidentally landed on HC server in BF4. No spotting.
    No mini map.
    Some had lower health up to 60%, No regen.
    Friendly fire on (stupid tank drivers).
    Some even went as far as baning weapons.

    BF4 had the biggest cheat with a 2nd screen a map that spotted everyting.

    Glad I got kicked for FF their play style was really bad, I never looked back.

    It so funny seeing some HC players whinge about attrition in BFV when what they are asking for is a tougher one with HC
    Kind of what I thought. Basically the same game just with a few options turned on/off. However some people on here want HC mode to be a very different game. This ain't gonna happen.
  • GenCuster
    211 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited May 6
    The fact that if I throw a grenade in a room with 5 friends and 5 rivals I kill only the enemies...
    and friends jump around cheerfully, it already 'clearly the difference....
    Lately the games are ending in a continuous shooting of artillery without damage to friends... it’s ridiculous.
    If I unleash "everyone" artillery, they should die on that base.
    the same as the minimap...many run around only in the direction of a red dot of minimapp...no tactics...no listening to footsteps.
    And since most people have their closet full lately......... no-recoil
    It would really help if I shot you too, and my few hits are effective, not a whole mag.
    simply a different point of view, and a different approach,
    this is what those who ask for HC want.




  • Trokey66
    9142 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    edited May 6
    Unitended post - ignore.
  • Loqtrall
    12468 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    I just find it funny that some people actually think BF5 is a more "hardcore" experience. I'd love to hear what they thought of the first 5 titles in the franchise, or actual hardcore, quasi-sim shooters like Insurgency or Hell Let Loose.

    BF5 is just as much an arcadey walk in the park as any other recent title.
  • Trokey66
    9142 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Loqtrall wrote: »
    I just find it funny that some people actually think BF5 is a more "hardcore" experience. I'd love to hear what they thought of the first 5 titles in the franchise, or actual hardcore, quasi-sim shooters like Insurgency or Hell Let Loose.

    BF5 is just as much an arcadey walk in the park as any other recent title.

    Is this literal objective fact or legitimate subjective opinion.?

    When compared to the last 3 titles at least, it is not difficult to see why BFV is often referred to as 'Hardcore lite' by many.

    And yes, this is an opinion,a meandering ramble about why BFV is just like BF2 is not required.
  • Loqtrall
    12468 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Trokey66 wrote: »
    Is this literal objective fact or legitimate subjective opinion.?

    When compared to the last 3 titles at least, it is not difficult to see why BFV is often referred to as 'Hardcore lite' by many.

    And yes, this is an opinion,a meandering ramble about why BFV is just like BF2 is not required.

    And in what ways is it more "Hardcore lite" than past games? Because it doesn't include a spammable 3d spotting mechanic that is solely utilized in BF3 through BF1 and nowhere else in the franchise or in any other FPS game known to man? Because it doesn't have a suppression mechanic that actively rewards *not* hitting your target (which, again, is only present in 4 total BF titles)?

    I fail to see how it's more that BF5 has moved into "Hardcore-lite", and less that the past 4 titles in the franchise moved significantly further into the territory of hand-holding game mechanics and features and away from the gameplay BF was known for - before a "Hardcore mode" even existed.

    Thats not to mention we're talking about Hardcore modes in this franchise, to which BF5 isn't even remotely similar outside of having no spammable 3d spotting. It is still filled to the brim with arcadey, casual mechanics and differs, functionally, from Hardcore modes in any given FPS game out there in so many ways, its not even funny.

    So again, I fail to see how having no spammable spotting/etc qualifies this game as Hardcore lite. If anything it qualifies it as closer to what BF was before its rise to popularity on consoles and attempts to make it as accessible to as many players as possible - and closer to how the majority of other shooters are designed. Now we have people literally insisting they can't see enemies with their own eyes, despite rim lighting making them glow like light bulbs, because they can't spam a button and mark them with a bright red dot over their heads. We have people complaining that an enemy with a rifle can still accurately shoot them while they spray 120 MMG rounds 150m away and miss 99% of their shots. We have people that they have to find a friendly Medic or resupply when they're hurt because they can't just hide in a bush and regain all of their health. Ffs, Bf4 had a mechanic that spotted every player on the minimap every time they fired their gun, IN A SHOOTER GAME, and the only way to counter it was to attach a suppressor that make your weapon perform considerably worse in a game where most weapons had the muzzle velocity of airsoft guns. It had a weapon attachment that automatically spammed 3d spotting on any enemy you even aimed at.

    I'd say desire for that type of gameplay is less indicative of BF5 being too hardcore-oriented, and moreso that the community desires systems that hold your hand and gently walk you through every facet of gameplay from start to finish.

    It's not approaching being a Hardcore FPS game at all merely because it lacks blatantly hand-holding and heavily casualized mechanics that a handful of games in this franchise featured. Those games had some of the most player-assisting mechanics in all of AAA FPS gaming. Hell, the 3d spotting mechanics in BF3, BF4, BFH, and BF1 are essentially unprecedented in comparison to other shooters, including most of the games in the same franchise.

    You might have a point if BF games were always like those games in terms of those types of mechanics. But they weren't. What actually happened is BF3s release marked a period in time where DICE took BF games with already arcadey mechanics and features, and made BF games progressively more cheesy in terms of mechanics and how the game relays information to players.
  • ninjapenquinuk
    2247 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Loqtrall said:
    Trokey66 wrote: »
    Is this literal objective fact or legitimate subjective opinion.?

    When compared to the last 3 titles at least, it is not difficult to see why BFV is often referred to as 'Hardcore lite' by many.

    And yes, this is an opinion,a meandering ramble about why BFV is just like BF2 is not required.

    And in what ways is it more "Hardcore lite" than past games? Because it doesn't include a spammable 3d spotting mechanic that is solely utilized in BF3 through BF1 and nowhere else in the franchise or in any other FPS game known to man? Because it doesn't have a suppression mechanic that actively rewards *not* hitting your target (which, again, is only present in 4 total BF titles)?

    I fail to see how it's more that BF5 has moved into "Hardcore-lite", and less that the past 4 titles in the franchise moved significantly further into the territory of hand-holding game mechanics and features and away from the gameplay BF was known for - before a "Hardcore mode" even existed.

    Thats not to mention we're talking about Hardcore modes in this franchise, to which BF5 isn't even remotely similar outside of having no spammable 3d spotting. It is still filled to the brim with arcadey, casual mechanics and differs, functionally, from Hardcore modes in any given FPS game out there in so many ways, its not even funny.

    So again, I fail to see how having no spammable spotting/etc qualifies this game as Hardcore lite. If anything it qualifies it as closer to what BF was before its rise to popularity on consoles and attempts to make it as accessible to as many players as possible - and closer to how the majority of other shooters are designed. Now we have people literally insisting they can't see enemies with their own eyes, despite rim lighting making them glow like light bulbs, because they can't spam a button and mark them with a bright red dot over their heads. We have people complaining that an enemy with a rifle can still accurately shoot them while they spray 120 MMG rounds 150m away and miss 99% of their shots. We have people that they have to find a friendly Medic or resupply when they're hurt because they can't just hide in a bush and regain all of their health. Ffs, Bf4 had a mechanic that spotted every player on the minimap every time they fired their gun, IN A SHOOTER GAME, and the only way to counter it was to attach a suppressor that make your weapon perform considerably worse in a game where most weapons had the muzzle velocity of airsoft guns. It had a weapon attachment that automatically spammed 3d spotting on any enemy you even aimed at.

    I'd say desire for that type of gameplay is less indicative of BF5 being too hardcore-oriented, and moreso that the community desires systems that hold your hand and gently walk you through every facet of gameplay from start to finish.

    It's not approaching being a Hardcore FPS game at all merely because it lacks blatantly hand-holding and heavily casualized mechanics that a handful of games in this franchise featured. Those games had some of the most player-assisting mechanics in all of AAA FPS gaming. Hell, the 3d spotting mechanics in BF3, BF4, BFH, and BF1 are essentially unprecedented in comparison to other shooters, including most of the games in the same franchise.

    You might have a point if BF games were always like those games in terms of those types of mechanics. But they weren't. What actually happened is BF3s release marked a period in time where DICE took BF games with already arcadey mechanics and features, and made BF games progressively more cheesy in terms of mechanics and how the game relays information to players.
    I womder what the average age of a bf player is. I say this because bf3 was released 9 yrs ago and bf4 7, so I'm betting a huge number of players-not just forum members, have only known the console friendly versions of battlefield so any deviation from the more hand holding mechanics seen since bf3/4 is not what they signed up for. If that makes sense. Anyone under what, 23, if not older would probably not have played the 'original' games and they would have needed a PC to do so. I hark back to the bf1942 playing on my mates LAN and then Buying  bfvietnam, which I love to this day-through rose tinted specs no doubt ( can't beat blaring out ride of the Valkyrie as you ride in a Huey) and I dislike  lot of the more hand holding and 'making life easier' mechanics the series has introduced, but many people have only known health regen, infinite ammo and 3D spotting and so any deviation from this is wrong in their eyes
  • Trokey66
    9142 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    Did I not say"when compared to the last 3 titles at least"?

    As @ninjapenquinuk above says, it is not impossible that a significant amount of players, if not the majority, have only played since Bad Company. Indeed, those that have played longer may prefer the later titles.

    By the God's, read man. It could save you an awful lot of typing.
  • OskooI_007
    1319 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited May 6
    I like spotting. It makes for faster and less campy gameplay. About the only games with static spotting is BF1942 and BFV. All other games have active spotting that follows the player as they move around. In BF2 spotting follows them around in the minimap.

    More anti-spot perks are needed in Battlefield though. Maybe have an anti-3D spot perk where you only show up on the minimap when spotted. And another one where you lose your spot 50% faster. The perk in BF1 where moving slowly prevents spotting flares from spotting you is a good one.

    Personally, I think the spotting radius of flares (BF1 BFV) and motion sensors (BC1 BC2) is too large and too spammable. So there needs to be stealth perks to counter them. Maybe a sensor jamming perk where your position on the minimap only updates every 5 seconds. Similar to how the Commander UAV Scan works in BF2.

    There's all kinds of stealth perks DICE could come up with if they put their imagination to it.

    6934463e4edf171dd1f771664a199253.jpg
    Post edited by OskooI_007 on
  • NN_Buzz12
    235 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Trokey66 wrote: »
    NN_Buzz12 wrote: »
    Trokey66 wrote: »
    Trokey66 wrote: »
    I highly doubt addition of HC mode can automatically make the game successful. It's not that simple.

    That said, a hardcore mode would give the masochists somewhere to go and us normal people can play without a hardcore lite approach.

    In that sense, I hope BF6 does have a separate hardcore mode.



    Why'd you turn this into a bashing thread? It doesn't even mention the normal game mode in a bad light?

    I haven't, you have simply been over sensitive to what I said.

    Having dabbled in hardcore, I genuinely rhink that people who enjoy that mode are masochists with no insult intended.

    You may also want to look up the definition of 'masochist' before responding further.

    I looked up the definition and you are wrong. You may want to look up the word yourself.

    You dabbled in HC so you’re qualified to label people that like the game play? Then tell people they’re being sensitive because your reply lacks depth? I don’t think I would even post something if I dabbled in the subject being discussed.

    I have an opinion of people that don’t play HC mode and you’re helping to confirm my thought. How’s that?

    If, after having to look up the definition, you can't grasp why I have used the term WITH NO INSULT INTENDED, then perhaps that says more about HC players.......

    Given its literal definition, the term 'masochist' is often used to describe someone who likes to do things 'the hard way'.

    But hey.......

    What’s so hard about playing a video game. The physical act is the same in both modes.

    Once you wrap your mind around the fact that you can’t take more bullets in HC mode, the game is pretty much the same. Is that the hard part you think I missed? Thinking while you play is harder?

    I’m also a hardcore writer. Think before I write. The challenge is real.

    There’s room enough for EA to allow the player base to choose between hardcore and regular mode. EA knows we want to have the choice but they write the code and are willing to alienate and give up customers.
  • DingoKillr
    4352 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited May 6
    OskooI_007 wrote: »
    I like spotting. It makes for faster and less campy gameplay. About the only games that don't have spotting is BF1942 and BFV. When you spot players in BF2 it follows them around in the minimap.

    More anti-spot perks are needed in Battlefield though. Maybe have an anti-3D spot perk where you only show up on the minimap when spotted. And another one where you lose your spot 50% faster. The perk in BF1 where moving slowly prevents spotting flares from spotting you is a good one.

    Personally, I think the spotting radius of flares (BF1 BFV) and motion sensors (BC1 BC2) is too large and too spammable. So there needs to be stealth perks to counter them. Maybe a sensor jamming perk where you still show up on the minimal, but it only updates your location once every 5 seconds. Similar to how the Commander UAV Scan worked in BF2.

    There's all kinds of stealth perks DICE could come up with if they put their imagination to it.
    Actual BF1942 had spotting but was voice.

    Vietnam had binoculars with tags and minimal.

    People forgot that in BF2 you could scan and see player names without actual spotting the player, worked just as well as 3d spotting. Fun fact the commander could also spot without using the UAV by zooming from the satellite map.

    BF2142 had NetBat helmet which had 3d spotting and minimap.

    Really there has been no BF without spotting, how easy or achieved has been different.

    BFV tried to give players a single squad spot but then made it difficult to achieve and not spot vehicles.
  • Trokey66
    9142 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, Battlefield V Member
    NN_Buzz12 wrote: »
    Trokey66 wrote: »
    NN_Buzz12 wrote: »
    Trokey66 wrote: »
    Trokey66 wrote: »
    I highly doubt addition of HC mode can automatically make the game successful. It's not that simple.

    That said, a hardcore mode would give the masochists somewhere to go and us normal people can play without a hardcore lite approach.

    In that sense, I hope BF6 does have a separate hardcore mode.



    Why'd you turn this into a bashing thread? It doesn't even mention the normal game mode in a bad light?

    I haven't, you have simply been over sensitive to what I said.

    Having dabbled in hardcore, I genuinely rhink that people who enjoy that mode are masochists with no insult intended.

    You may also want to look up the definition of 'masochist' before responding further.

    I looked up the definition and you are wrong. You may want to look up the word yourself.

    You dabbled in HC so you’re qualified to label people that like the game play? Then tell people they’re being sensitive because your reply lacks depth? I don’t think I would even post something if I dabbled in the subject being discussed.

    I have an opinion of people that don’t play HC mode and you’re helping to confirm my thought. How’s that?

    If, after having to look up the definition, you can't grasp why I have used the term WITH NO INSULT INTENDED, then perhaps that says more about HC players.......

    Given its literal definition, the term 'masochist' is often used to describe someone who likes to do things 'the hard way'.

    But hey.......

    What’s so hard about playing a video game. The physical act is the same in both modes.

    Once you wrap your mind around the fact that you can’t take more bullets in HC mode, the game is pretty much the same. Is that the hard part you think I missed? Thinking while you play is harder?

    I’m also a hardcore writer. Think before I write. The challenge is real.

    There’s room enough for EA to allow the player base to choose between hardcore and regular mode. EA knows we want to have the choice but they write the code and are willing to alienate and give up customers.

    Oh dear......

    You don't get it do you?

    I think you'll find I support the inclusion of Hardcore if only so that you masochists can go and self flagillate yourselves to your hearts content but reading doesn't seem to be your strong point.

    Thinking before you write doesn't help if you don't think after you read.
  • trip1ex
    5231 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited May 6
    OskooI_007 wrote: »
    I like spotting. It makes for faster and less campy gameplay. About the only games that don't have spotting is BF1942 and BFV. When you spot players in BF2 it follows them around in the minimap.

    More anti-spot perks are needed in Battlefield though. Maybe have an anti-3D spot perk where you only show up on the minimap when spotted. And another one where you lose your spot 50% faster. The perk in BF1 where moving slowly prevents spotting flares from spotting you is a good one.

    Personally, I think the spotting radius of flares (BF1 BFV) and motion sensors (BC1 BC2) is too large and too spammable. So there needs to be stealth perks to counter them. Maybe a sensor jamming perk where you still show up on the minimal, but it only updates your location once every 5 seconds. Similar to how the Commander UAV Scan worked in BF2.

    There's all kinds of stealth perks DICE could come up with if they put their imagination to it.
    Actual BF1942 had spotting but was voice.

    Vietnam had binoculars with tags and minimal.

    People forgot that in BF2 you could scan and see player names without actual spotting the player, worked just as well as 3d spotting. Fun fact the commander could also spot without using the UAV by zooming from the satellite map.

    BF2142 had NetBat helmet which had 3d spotting and minimap.

    Really there has been no BF without spotting, how easy or achieved has been different.

    BFV tried to give players a single squad spot but then made it difficult to achieve and not spot vehicles.
    it was also  much easier to see enemies in  BF42 in the first place because the  environments were  sparse.  There wasn't one thousand hiding spots that you could camp in without being seen.    
  • trip1ex
    5231 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    I like spotting. It makes for faster and less campy gameplay. About the only games with static spotting is BF1942 and BFV. All other games have active spotting that follows the player as they move around. In BF2 spotting follows them around in the minimap.

    More anti-spot perks are needed in Battlefield though. Maybe have an anti-3D spot perk where you only show up on the minimap when spotted. And another one where you lose your spot 50% faster. The perk in BF1 where moving slowly prevents spotting flares from spotting you is a good one.

    Personally, I think the spotting radius of flares (BF1 BFV) and motion sensors (BC1 BC2) is too large and too spammable. So there needs to be stealth perks to counter them. Maybe a sensor jamming perk where your position on the minimap only updates every 5 seconds. Similar to how the Commander UAV Scan works in BF2.

    There's all kinds of stealth perks DICE could come up with if they put their imagination to it.

    6934463e4edf171dd1f771664a199253.jpg

     Yeah they've done that stuff.   You mentioned one.   BF1 also has the decrease the time you are spotted by 2 seconds perk.

    Bf4 had suppressors so you didn't appear on the minimap when shooting and they had Stealth and Quick Unspot field upgrades.

     

  • NN_Buzz12
    235 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    Trokey66 wrote: »
    NN_Buzz12 wrote: »
    Trokey66 wrote: »
    NN_Buzz12 wrote: »
    Trokey66 wrote: »
    Trokey66 wrote: »
    I highly doubt addition of HC mode can automatically make the game successful. It's not that simple.

    That said, a hardcore mode would give the masochists somewhere to go and us normal people can play without a hardcore lite approach.

    In that sense, I hope BF6 does have a separate hardcore mode.



    Why'd you turn this into a bashing thread? It doesn't even mention the normal game mode in a bad light?

    I haven't, you have simply been over sensitive to what I said.

    Having dabbled in hardcore, I genuinely rhink that people who enjoy that mode are masochists with no insult intended.

    You may also want to look up the definition of 'masochist' before responding further.

    I looked up the definition and you are wrong. You may want to look up the word yourself.

    You dabbled in HC so you’re qualified to label people that like the game play? Then tell people they’re being sensitive because your reply lacks depth? I don’t think I would even post something if I dabbled in the subject being discussed.

    I have an opinion of people that don’t play HC mode and you’re helping to confirm my thought. How’s that?

    If, after having to look up the definition, you can't grasp why I have used the term WITH NO INSULT INTENDED, then perhaps that says more about HC players.......

    Given its literal definition, the term 'masochist' is often used to describe someone who likes to do things 'the hard way'.

    But hey.......

    What’s so hard about playing a video game. The physical act is the same in both modes.

    Once you wrap your mind around the fact that you can’t take more bullets in HC mode, the game is pretty much the same. Is that the hard part you think I missed? Thinking while you play is harder?

    I’m also a hardcore writer. Think before I write. The challenge is real.

    There’s room enough for EA to allow the player base to choose between hardcore and regular mode. EA knows we want to have the choice but they write the code and are willing to alienate and give up customers.

    Oh dear......

    You don't get it do you?

    I think you'll find I support the inclusion of Hardcore if only so that you masochists can go and self flagellate yourselves to your hearts content but reading doesn't seem to be your strong point.

    Thinking before you write doesn't help if you don't think after you read.

    Thank you for your support. Comprehension is not an issue on this end. You seem to be pretty sensitive when your embellished explanation or description of what others go through to play a game are rejected.

    I don’t find playing a video game hard but others like yourself may. In either mode (hardcore or normal) there is a learning curve. I guess you view hardcore mode hard because it’s easier to die?

    I hope life always provides you with an easy button. BFV in any mode isn’t hard. You should stop digging.
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